OG rpg's were tabletop D&D stuff where you would choose your own adventure/character and outcome in the gameworld, then, old school PC rpgs came along and did similar thing.
So, how exactly is something like Chrono Trigger and the like a "role playing game?"
What makes a "J"RPG an RPG when there's very little choice to be had in the actual game?
you picked a terrible example, since you have choice in about 50 different endings.
Ok then, any Final Fantasy for example.
Stat management in JRPGs was either taken directly from or inspired by tabletop RPGs. Often simplified, but still distinct.
They were based off of RPGs originally in terms of concept. Stats and things came from DnD originally.
There's class customization in several of the games
what we call RPGs in video games are video games that borrow the mechanics from table top RPGs, stat based combat, levelling up, etc. It doesn't have anything to do with actual roleplaying. Many games that contain no roleplaying whatsoever are called RPGs. Games like sim city or grand strategy games have more roleplaying than any JRPG or even most western RPGs
Maybe, but stats and combat are ony once aspect that I can think of that makes a JRPG have any level of effect on the gameworld, where as something like Deus Ex or VTMB do you have any reeal choice over gameplay/the world itself ect.Tthere's nothing I can think of that truly make JRPG's actual role playing games.
The term RPG for video games came more from the fantasy setting, storytelling and stats than the customizability. I'd say it's generally an outdated umbrella term that serves little purpose.
>choose your own adventure
you can't do that in 90% of "RPG"s regardless if they're W or J
TABLE-TOP "RPG" = "glorified choose-your-own-adventure shit with tremendous customization"
WRPG = "multiple choice game"
JRPG = "literal adventure game using the mechanics of Wizardry"
this is not hard to understand
It's a good question, often in Square/Squeenix so called RPGs you don't really pick roles.
customization isn't roleplaying
Sure, if that's the case then maybe they should have named JRPG's something different, as they bear very little resemblance to either D&D, or western RPG's
You can emulate the freedom of a good DM, or the narrative of a good DM. Until true AI and procedural asset generation are a thing you can't do both.
JRPGs just tend towards the narrative side, think of it as a heavily railroaded DND campaign.
it's not a bad example at all, because that's only a choice of when you end the game, you just play premade characters, where's the customization in leveling premade Crono Robo and others? There's none of it. So you don't ROLEPLAY
RPG vidya just means shit with numbers, levels and/or skills.
Yes, but you will still have a larger choice in most PC RPG's than nearly any JRPG
They are usually more RPGs than western trash at least.
If you want to be technically correct and really pretentious you could call them "Post RPGs"
that's a different argument
Or you could call them something else entirely becaue RPG just dosen't seem to cut it.
>think of it as a heavily railroaded DND campaign.
ie. reading a book
Nah, I think it's pretty much the same one.
the point is that none of those things involve literal role-playing, dumbass
>it's like reading a book
So... not an actual RPG, then?
The distinction is quite simple
>JRPG; you roleplay as a set role/character to see what that's like, to experience that character
>WRPG; you self-insert and make up your own shit
If by customization he means building your own character, yes it is. Deciding whether you're going to make it a tank, a damage dealer, a ranged damage dealer, magical damage dealer. That is assigning a role to the character you're making, ie. roleplaying.
But roleplaying itself actually means making choices that effect the actual gameworld/story, where are the choices in a game like Final Fantasy 7 for example?
No. Roleplaying means playing a role, which can mean either creating a character and making your own choices, or being assigned a character and playing that out, choices itself being optional, experiencing the character being core.
>roleplay as a set character
by that retarded definition every game is a RPG, you roleplay as Gordon Freedman in Half-Life, and so on
Another guy here, but that's right.
No video game can really compare with tabletop RPGs. Maybe to D&D to some degree, but even video game adaptations of tabletop like VtM and Shadowrun are more like introduction to the setting so you can actually do some fun shit with your friends on tabletop.
So JRPGs are so limited they make the definition or RPG meaningless when applied to them.
no it's not
the original question was if JRPGS are RPGS
Technically, yes, but many games lack a character in that sense. Mario or shit like Gears of War is hardly a roleplaying game because there is no real characterization beside the basic "guy that solves the plot", there is no exploration of the character or the role, you just run around poking objectives things.
People seem to have this delusional notion that a roleplaying game is about stats and character building, when it's more about experiencing a character than just building it.
Having choices in roleplaying games doesn't define the genre, all choices tend to do is change the role you're playing it doesn't make or break the fact that you're playing a role.
No, your definition of RPG is simply too narrow and shallow.
A JRPG is about exploring a role in depth through a scenario, a WRPG is about exploring a scenario through a role of your choosing.
It's part of the exact same argument, choice is what makes RPG's RPG's and JRPG's show a fundament lack of just that, choice
Jrpgs are wizardry clones. They just have ten coats of anime paint to distract you from how unoriginal and derivative they really are
Are you playing a role? Is it's game?
If the answers are yes, OP is a faggot.
Yes roleplaying is about picking roles, if you have pre-defined everything, you're not roleplaying because there's zero choice to which role you want to perform.
So roleplaying as Marcus Phoenix doesn't count to you because you think its story is basic, sounds arbitrary and almost excuse making because many stories in JRPGs aren't amazing either.
You can have building a character and experience it through picking how you want to play it and how you want the character to act in the story. Not in most JRPGs of course because they're just a linear ride, and your choice boils down to which party members are you picking to tag along.
So by your definition, every sigle game is an RPG because you are playing a "role" in it?
You are the faggot, also, you are obviously dumb as shit so kys.
>JRPG's show a fundament lack of just that, choice
Where does this meme come from? Just because you aren't making choices to dictate where the story goes doesn't mean you aren't making any choices. Your party, equipment, weapons, magic, etc. you use are all important decisions to make in JRPGs.
>Choice is what defines an RPG
No, roleplaying is what defines an RPG, literally what it says on the tin, playing a role. How you play a role is irrelevant, the role of observer is still a role despite not making choices.
Choices have nothing to do with roleplaying buddy.
Choices are to roleplaying what eating is to cooking. Yes, they're related, but you do not need one to do the other.
RPG: command/menu-driven game
ADV: text-driven game
Changing "Your party, equipment, weapons" etc dosen't mean a thing, when tonnes of games have a customization optiions for stuff like this, even shooters, it dosen't mean the games themselves are RPG's, though.
All RPGs limit you to an adventure. Even with pen and paper your DM is gonna fucking struggle if the party decides to sit down and become farmers. The rulebook just doesn't fill you in on agriculture. RPGs are games where you experience freedom within parameters which end with you killing the dragon.
By this definition, JRPGs are role playing games because you're allowed to choose the charactersy ou take with you. Which are essentially various types of roles bundled together with characters.
Roleplaying is picking which role you want to play. I will make an archer, or a warrior, or a rogue. There's also choices in the game that how I want my character to act in the given circumstances. JRPGs have none of that, you play as characters who you can't really change what role they'll perform and the story and character actions are set in stone.
You do realize that stuff came from RPGs originally, right? In fact many games which allowed you to do that were usually called something like FPS/RPGs.
Straight from fuck Wikipedia retard
A role-playing game(sometimes spelledroleplaying game[1][2]and abbreviated toRPG) is agamein which players assume the roles ofcharactersin a fictionalsetting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literalactingor through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3]Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formalsystem of rulesand guidelines.[4]
>which end with you killing the dragon.
Uh, not exactly, have you ever played a tabletop RPG?
But that isn't the argument. The argument was that there's a lack of choice in JRPGs when there isn't.
You're making up arbitrarydistinctions for what choices qualify as
>RPG choices
when in reality there's very little to differentiate the gameplay choices you make in western and eastern RPGs.
Oh wikipedia, the last refuge of the retard, fuck off.
Except there's only one real ending, with some changes depending on if chrono is dead or alive
Almost as if you didn't play the game
I'd say two most prominent aspects of RPGs in JRPGs are the character customization (Stats, gear, active party, etc) and the random element (encounters, hit/miss, damage crits).
>there isnt a lack of choices in JRPG's
If you actually believe this, then at this point why would I even bother arguing with you?
You do not need to pick your role to roleplay user, where on earth are you getting this? Have you never played a D&D campaign with premade characters, or randomly assigned characters? Why limit yourself?
Again, you're just repeating the assertion that RPG's require choice, where this is simply not true, many roles do not even get choices, yet playing as them is still an RPG.
The only reasonable argument from your position would be that in a WRPG you play a role of your choosing, whereas a JRPG is more about exploring a premade role, though that's still playing as that role.
In fact, the terminology favors the JRPG approach as WRPG are more "scenario playing games" where you play out a scenario as a character of your choosing, rather than a distinct role.
For example, can you tell me what role you're playing in Morrowind? None, right, you're just playing out the scenario with whatever comes to mind. Tales of Versperia has you play out the role of an estranged young adult trying to find a place in a world, and exploring the morality of a lone wolf in such a situation, a clear role you're filling.
that's not roleplaying. Customization can aid in roleplaying but roleplaying itself is the act of imaginative storytelling
just becaus they came from rpgs doesn't make them rpgs
Because you can't disprove the way people use words in ordinary language by holding them to logical standards.
Not how language works senpai.
user please, RPG choices here are basically choices relating to characters, story/narrative etc. Gameplay choices have fuck all to do with that.
The choice of using an assault rifle or a shotgun in an FPS does not make it an RPG.
>making spelling mistakes with copy+paste
>ignore the actual definition and use my definition instead
gas this thread
>just becaus they came from rpgs doesn't make them rpgs
Your argument was that equipment and such are found in other games therefore it doesn't mean anything.
The reason they have them was because they incorporated elements that were originally found in RPGs. Originally those genres did not have them. And hell, some games even to this day don't have them.
Just because colloquialisms exist doesn't mean they're always good. The misuse of the term RPG has lead to a whole shitload of people who don't even know what roleplaying means, as seen in this thread
Or you could just, I dunno, fuck off?
Yes, it's not a good thing necessarily, but that doesn't mean that it's not what the term now means.
This thread doesn't deserve more than my lazy ass chink phone copy paste.
The only real "role-playing game" is tabletop D&D
But CRPGs and to an extent WRPGs in general are at least a step in the correct direction.
OK, by your definition, if equipment literally means nothing and choices relating to characters, story/narrative etc. are most important, then telltale games are RPGs. Face it user you're wrong. If gameplay choices have
>fuck all to do with it
then there's literally nothing separating RPGs from any other type of game.
>J
It stands for japanese. Basically its rpgs with a japanese style often times more simplified in ways of world building and anime like characters.
>Telltale games are RPGs
Yes? Why wouldn't they be?
You can pick which role you play in Morrowind, because it uses a more open skill-based progression, so the way you play becomes the role you're playing. Say if you're constantly sneaking and using bows, you're eventually going to turn into a thief/archer archetype. Just because it doesn't have clear cut roles doesn't mean it lacks roles.
If anything that gives you predefined characters can be considered a RPG, what's stopping people from calling Call of Duty a RPG?
computer games can never be true RPGs because computers can't respond to what you're thinking and react accordingly. You can roleplay, but you can only roleplay within your own head or within the limited amount of parameters given to you. Holding tabletop as the grand standard to what video game RPGs should aspire to is dumb. They should try to be what video games are good at instead
>RPG's require choice, where this is simply not true
The whole genre started with the idea of choosing how you play. I'm sorry you like being limited.
user, I didn't ask you to perform an autopsy on my question, I asked you to answer it.
>Why not CoD?
Emphasis isn't on the characters, simple as that.
RPGs aren't about literally picking a role to play otherwise Team Fortress withg be an RPG. Role playing is playing pretend
Yes, sure, but the point is that still dosen't make them RPG's
The whole genre started with the idea of "lets adapt the combat rules of D&D and make a dungeon crawling game". Early computer RPGs had no fucking choice at all, in the west they've moved away from that but JRPGs haven't
>poking at the weebs again
I already explained you Morrowind has roleplaying, you just don't have a stricter class system, and I say that as someone who despises all Bethesda games, they're terrible but a system with skills and no predefined classes doesn't mean there's no roleplaying, there's just a different approach to it.
Deus Ex also lacks classes but you still have roleplaying with the skill system.
No, the whole genre started with people playing out fantastical scenarios through characters and roles, while freedom of choice was a large part of it that doesn't mean it defined it.
You can play a D&D campaign where the DM hands you a character sheet and the objective is to play that character as faithfully as possible, little 'choosing how you play' involved.
Just because your experience with RPGs in general is extremely shallow doesn't mean the genre/concept is.
You still play a role, you just don't choose it. It's actually more realistic.
>Deus Ex also lacks classes but you still have roleplaying with the skill system.
skill systems and levelling up isn't roleplaying
Not my intention, but I'll admit, some of the uber defences responses are funny.
>I already explained to you
I didn't ask for an explanation, I asked for an answer, and you're failing to provide it.
You did not play a role in morrowind, you played a character in a scenario, your 'role' merely being which quest you decided to do, but that was but a small part of Morrowind.
They are in a sense that the role is picked for you. Rpgs rely on character building, meaning stats and character relations. JRPGS are just a dumbed down version of western rpgs. Everything is established for you at the start, you'd just build the character your own way. It's less freedom but you do get to choose where to go and what to equip and build.
>not picking how you want to be is more realistic
what? are you a robot?
>JRPGs
good waifus
>WRPGs
shitty waifus
I think the choice is clear
Nigga what?
The choice is clear: waifufags need to be banned.
>I didn't ask for an explanation, I asked for an answer, and you're failing to provide it.
Not that user but what? An explanation is an answer, there is no quick answer to your question.
Westcucks don't even know what RPG means and how the genre started, holy hell. How come they are so pathetic?
classic JRPG was literally designed to be Wizardry/RPG lite
it's accessible and tends to focus on artistry and non-gameplay attractions, I'd say 70% of the appeal lies with aesthetic alone
...
Of course you do play a role in Morrowind, you pick it as you play, based on which skills are you increasing. It just has a more flexible system with tons of abilities that you can gradually refine, rather than a more strict game that asks you to pick from the getfo if you want to be a mage or an archer, for example.
You can't say Dragon Quest-clones aren't RPGs without simultaneously saying that Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Ultima, etc. also aren't RPGs, which would require us to re-write a lot of books and would generally be a big hassle.
I asked you what role you played, there is a simple answer to this that is not provided.
A simple answer would be "imperial legionnaire" or some shit, but we all know that doesn't fly because very few people stuck to actual roles like that and instead just played Chuck McFuck who runs around doing everything.
>which would require us to re-write a lot of books
yeah all the academic literature on video games will be ruined
Is a jellyfish really a fish?
No. Like most historical terms, it's a misnomer.