Where did Wolfenstein II go wrong when DOOM was such a success?

Where did Wolfenstein II go wrong when DOOM was such a success?

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marketing.
Also from what I've heard there was way too much cutscene and it made the classic stealth gameplay fuckups but no one would have given a shit about that and they would have still bought it if not for the marketing.

>4 minutes of gameplay
>7 hours of cutscenes
Also something about a black woman? Idk

imagine they turn doom guy into a wewuz

...

one pissed off nazis and the other didnt

.

Doom sucked

I don't care about the story, I just wanna shoot shit and in this game thats secondary with all the stealth, no damage indicators screen shaking etc, still it looks pretty

People are getting tired of politics being shoved into every single piece of media entertainment. We play games, read books, watch movies, etc to escape from this shitty world not be reminded of it at every turn. Entertainment is about escapism.

Ok so doom is obviously more fun, but I had no real issue with wolfenstein. The mechanics were all solid; the literal only problem I had was the forced diversity but even that isn't a big deal.

D44M ignored storyline and was just about DOOMguy shooting demons. He even punches the computer when it tries to establish a single-player campaign story. Wolfenstein calls gamers nazis, claims WW2 was fought by the Black Panthers and Feminists and tells antiFa they should rise up and overthrow Drumpfenhitler.

basically, wolfenstein is commie propaganda and Doom was just an FPS.

The pregnant woman taking of her shirt and shooting people covered in blood was pretty disgusting for me, I would rather not look at that in my videogames.

D44M's marketing was terrible though.

What I could tell from this whole situation, D44M knew it came from a series filled with 90's cheese and edge and reveled in it. It didn't try to tell a deep story (Apparently the actual story was written in a couple of months before release) and it didn't try to have deep characters either, it left that stuff in the PDAs and allowed the player to play the game without knowing anything other than "Demons = bad".

Wolf 2 however is a sequel to TNO which was the same as D44M where it reveled in the cheese of it all, like a 80's B-movie about techno wizard Nazis. However, TNC wanted to tell a serious story as well, what would happen if Nazis did take over America. The big problem is that they want their cake and eat it too. You can't have a game about ancient magic jew tech, Venus bases (Nice creativity there considering what TNO did...), robo dogs and Hitler still being alive and try to tell a story about resistance and human values. It doesn't work.

They're both shit for different reasons

>Doom
+ Gameplay focused, great weapons, great bestiary, great boss battle
- literally no level design, entire game is just offline multiplayer in boring symmetrical arenas
>Wolf 2
+ Decent level design
- everything else, cutscenes, weapons, upgrade system, replayability, enemies, bosses are all boring shit

One tried to be a fun FPS and the other pushed a political agenda in a million cutscenes over good gameplay.

i think the best comparison that can be made is in the credits music for both TNO and TNC

TNO has a beautiful original composition;
youtube.com/watch?v=CiTn4j7gVvY

Whereas TNC has this fucking abomination;
youtube.com/watch?v=tRQ4fyw5zzM

DOOM didn't try to push an agenda.

Holy fuck
>D44M was actually fantastic but had shit marketing so no one knew it was good
>Wolfenstein had multimillion dollar ad campaign but the game was dogshit

Whoever is in charge of advertising at Bethesda should never be allowed to work again.

This thread got me curious and I searched up midi for D44M songs. BFG division still sounds cool.
youtube.com/watch?v=iLm6kImhTWc

but it's fun, not as fun as doom but fun

Jesus Christ, some autist is going to shoot up a school while listening to that butchering of Twisted Sister

DOOM singleplayer expansion where?

No one asked Swedish cuck Machine Games to put in Grace SJW shit into a game when you kill Nazis

>Enemies just walking towards you to die
>Compared to D44M where enemies will actually fucking flank you and attempt to counter you.

That looks like shit.

1. Different developers
2. DOOM had fun with its dumb story and didn't take itself seriously, didn't try to push an agenda. Wolfenstein did.
3. DOOM just goes balls to the wall fast action. Wolfenstein tries to blend new mechanics in shooters with old mechanics, creating a weird dumb hybrid retard baby

Faggots fell for the redpill meme and thought it was anti-white propaganda

Interesting mechanic but these things bothered me in TNO as well
>Weapons being WAY too large and cover the screen
>Even worse when duel wielding
>Enemies don't have much AI

I don't know how far I am (I just got BJ's new body. Seriously, what the fuck was that? I wasn't expecting something like that. but I don't see the hate. It isn't as fun as The New Order but it isn't horrible either.

I remember how the week before Doom 2016's release people were already discussing spoilers about the whole Doom Slayer thing. I thought "Nah, that's bullshit. The Doom Guy being an one-man natural disaster sounds too cheesy and juvenile".

DOOM didn't shove political undertones into the game.

>AI just walks into your bullets
Wow, looks great, totally worth 3 hours of cut-scenes telling me how evil I am.

you're about 70% of the way through the main plot, ubercommandos add a lot of playtime if you wanna clear them all

Doom barely had a story and had an addictive gameplay loop.

W2 felt like a chore half the time.

And it ended up being one of the best things of the game. People to this day still discuss the intricacies of the Doom slayer's backstory and what the UAC and Hell have been doing since his slumber. People are fucking talking about lore in a Doom game. That's impressive.

D44M marketing was terrible. They only showed slow paced console footage. I think it was only a week before release when they actually gave us PC footage while demoing Vulkan.

>70%
Are you serious? Then the game is just a bit longer than The Old Blood.

Yea, it's like 6 hours of gameplay.

BFG still sounds great blast processed
youtube.com/watch?v=5H5VK9tcMsQ

Consoles are 60fps and just as fast if you aren't a shitter.

>just as fast
You're retarded.
For fps you will never be able to perform at the level of keyboard and mouse with a gamepad. Ever.

ok? Might want to read my post again.

Announcement and marketing
Mediocre gameplay
Stacked year

DOOM came out during a slow period and was a geniune surprise. New Colossus basically plays exactly like New Order, and no matter how good the story might be many people will just YouTube that shit.

Hah. No wonder it got mixed reviews on Steam then. I have 12 hours clocked but that's due to dying a lot (playing on hardest difficulty) and the cutscenes being way too long.
What a shame; I really liked the levels (especially nuked Manhattan) and being beheaded in public only to get an Ubersoldat body creeped the shit out of me (body horror of any type makes me uncomfortable as fuck).

I knew something was off when I found that the laser weapon just disintegrates surfaces instead of allowing you to do free-form cuts.

Who the fuck thought cutscenes out the ass would be alright in a fucking shooter game? Like what the fuck man, I just want to kill nazis, I don't give a damn about the character's romantic problems and backstories, tell me that shit through lore, DOOM did it right, You play as a badass so badass Hell itself had to drop a temple on him just to stop him and all that did was make the dude angry, then as if to mock wolfy, the dude punches out the monitor on the plot dumping fag mid speech

...

Doom was a good game with good word-of-mouth. It also came out earlier in the year. Wolfenstein II is a bad FPS sequel that launched in the same period as a bunch of other games to play.

wolfenstein is a movie game
doom is a game

>Wolf 2 however is a sequel to TNO which was the same as D44M where it reveled in the cheese of it all, like a 80's B-movie about techno wizard Nazis. However, TNC wanted to tell a serious story as well, what would happen if Nazis did take over America. The big problem is that they want their cake and eat it too. You can't have a game about ancient magic jew tech, Venus bases (Nice creativity there considering what TNO did...), robo dogs and Hitler still being alive and try to tell a story about resistance and human values. It doesn't work.

I think New Order and Colossus biggest strength is that it walks the tightrope between over the top fun and serious subject matters extremely well.

it really is amazing how the guys over at ID managed to make a story and setting so intriguing without sacrificing the gameplay beyond the occasional quick cutscene with Olivia Pierce.

> Wolfensteins Marketing.
> Skyrims/Fallouts creation club
> Fallout 4. Just all of fallout 4.
What makes you think anyone at bethesda should ever be allowed to do anything ever?

Both are shit
Both are consoleshit
wolf is loaded with cutscenes and plays like a clunky awkward CoD and Doom attempted to distance itself from modern shooters but failed and nobody left at id apparently don't understand what made the old games good in the first place

Don't forget when they forced the name Prey onto Arkane and did a worse job marketing it than D44M.

I'm really tempted to buy this game. I've heard good things about it.

You're shit

No politics in DOOM. Despite all the Brutal influences in DOOM2016 the game is a lot closer to its origin than nu-Wolf is.

DOOM's marketing was a piece of shit, no one believed that game would be good because the trailers were focused too much on the glory kill mechanic instead of traversing the levels and running and gunning, and the only thing Bethesda let the public play was that multiplayer beta that sucked dick and had all the shit that makes modern FPS cancer like loadouts, two weapon limit and perks.

It wasn't until like, a week or two before the game's release that they demoed a section of the campaign runnning on a 1080 with Vulkan and it looked fucking amazing.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZfnhMX5kZ6E

Do it. If you enjoyed System shock and want something similar, get it. I will warn you though, it does get tedious after a while due to the lack of proper enemy variety and there is a point where the atmosphere is ruined. Other than that, it's pretty fun.

being too political

I loved System Shock 2 and started System Shock for the first time a couple days ago (I just arrived to deck 2; let's see how things go from there; it was neat being ambushed on the elevator by like eight mutants) so more of the same is a plus for me.

My favorite parts are when people try to monologue to Doomslayer and he just completely ignores them.

The monster varity isn't too great but the gameplay and atmosphere is superb. It also has the old school none linear mapdesign. Would say it's more system shock 2 than bioshock

This.
>Advertising for Fallout and Skyrim is okay, but games made by iD have bad ads.
What did they mean by this?

Why the fuck did they call it PREY

It outsold the new order.

Bethesda wanted to keep the IP by slapping the name onto any game is my theory. It's a shame too, considering the original title was going to be like "Typhon" or something, which works for the game MUCH better.

No matter how bad the marketing was for doom there is no shittier idea than dipping into current political strife as a marketing mechanic. It doesn't matter if the current political strife is unquestioningly (which it isn't) about actual literal fucking Nazi's (lol).
You know how whenever there's a mass shooting in the USA and NRA politicians always talk about how its like, idk, crass or whatever to talk about gun control at that exact moment?
Well it actually is crass and fucking disgusting to try to sell someone some shit on the back of stuff like that. Fucking everyone thinks its shitty and the only people who can be sold by that shit are the autistic minority who explicitly take the EXACT side you take, and not even all of those people are going to buy whatever dumb piece of shit thing you're trying to sell them.

Did it? I hope that's true, I was really hoping for a third game where you go to Germany and kill MechaHitler

Uhh, this sucks

DOOM didn't portray Nazis as the bad guys

>"Doomguy, please handle that equipment with care"
>He breaks it faster

>Doomguy takes the BFG
>floor collapses and he falls a long distance
>The very first thing he does once he recovers his senses is checking if he still has the BFG with him

It's the small things.

A modern Mecha hitler fight would be great.

I actually much prefer the instant melt to fucking around with the cutting. It was a neat idea but it was slow and mainly pointless

It's totally on track for the direction the series is headed too. MechaHitler would be right at home in the New Orders atmosphere

Doom has way less in the cutscene department.
A more apt comparison would be to compare Wolf 2 to TNO, when they're both about the same, and the difference is Wolf 2's shitty marketing campaign.

>Samuel Hayden spouting off that Argent Energy is for the good of humanity
>Doomguy stares at a corpse while cracking his fists

That one little moment has more characterization than most modern RPGs.

Doom put the game first, it was all about the guns and demons. The cut scenes were first person, short (with few exceptions) and to the point. Throw in great run n gun combat over the not quite stealth/run n gun unfriendly combat of New Order/Colossus and you have a game people were hungry for a long time a simple, good FPS that wasn't a TV drama or shooting gallery. Also props for having so much of Doomguy's characterization through body language this is how silent protags should be done.

No, I mean... why call it just "PREY"? Why not call it "PREY: Mimicry" or something like that. I fucking HATE it when franchises recycle names like that.

Because it worked for D44M, I don't know.

Does The New Collosus have nazi remixes of 70's music? I really liked The Beatles parody

>Mond, Mond, ja ja

Oh my fucking god, that was painful.

Eehh I would say both these new Wolf games suffer from their stories being completely joyless in tone despite the comical shit going on. People claim the self-seriousness is ironic but the way people deal with what's around them tells me it's anything but.

For anyone who is curious, Mick Gordan who did Killer Instinct and D44M soundtracks did the Prey soundtrack as well
youtube.com/watch?v=BHpO35dWfeM

Probably it was a Quake 2 situation
>No satisfying / commercially attractive name for this new game you're developing
>Fuck it, let's pass it as a sequel of another, better known game

he's becoming Bethesda's go-to man. Will he do TES or Fallout too next I wonder? Does Jeremy Soule have that shit on lock?

The problem is that the new wolfenstein games try a little too hard with their stories. I also don't understand why stealth is even a thing in those games. If I wanted stealth, I'd have opened up Thief or Hitman, not fucking Wolfenstein.

Don't forget
>Have to manually pick up items
>In a fire fight

He's good for synth and guitar heavy soundtracks, but I don't think the orchestral stuff the TES and Fallout franchises have would work. Maybe if he tried to emulate the Original Fallout desolate soundtrack, maybe.

they actually added automatic pickup in TNC but it took me forever to notice it, the radius is not generous

It's still 1961 so you're still in the 60s. There's a handful of new tracks but a lot of it focuses more on Nazi versions of American pop culture like Leave it to Beaver, 60s Batman, Lassie, etc. The real nice one is the Nazified remake of Wolfenstein 3D.

I actually sat down and played the whole first chapter in a single go when I found that

Ok, this is pretty funny.

>LOL FUCK DRUMPF
>NOT MY AMERIKKA
>PUNCH A NAZI
>WOLFENTEIN II BUY TODAY

that's why.

Because Wolfenstein was a "cinematic experience" with really awful writing compared to a game that at least tried to have fun gameplay?

>triggered
You must be a soyboy.

main gameplay in wolfenstein is really unbalanced and the plot is meh, wolfi is good for the characters, wordbuilding and set pieces but after that is only a "meh" game
doom on the other hand has barely any plot or characters, some kinda funny stuff for doomguy and pretty good gameplay

It's so painfully obvious the vast majority of people bitching about Wolfenstein haven't even played. Look at this shit

>What do people love about DOOM?
>you play as a pissed off space marine fighting the legions of hell REALLY FAST so let's do that with better graphics

>What do people like about Wolfenstein?
>It's like DOOM but you fight Nazis so let's make an immersive cinematic experience where we shoehorn awkward, cringey dialogue and thinly veiled references to today's retarded political climate

DOOM was made by Americans, Wolfenstein II was made by Swenden.

that's literally how they marketed it though.

Muh proofs?