Can a JRPG be hard?

Can a JRPG be hard?

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Yeah, go play The Last Remnant.

Probably not as hard as SRPGs can be, assuming that's what you meant because you posted a character from LuCT.

JRPGs known for being hard: Dark Souls, Atlus games, and I guess Darkest Dungeon if you count that one gameplay-wise as a JRPG

>LuCT
>hard

Does Wizardry count?

Dark Souls

No, any level of "challenge" in a JRPG is overcome by simple grind.

Played it on PC and it was a joke. Only that fat death bird shitter that spams curse gave me "trouble" and even that was mostly due to how fucking boring it was resurrecting your troops turn after turn.

Yes.

No game is harder than Natural Doctrine.

I found SMT: Nocturne to be really tough on my first playthrough. I'm sure people will jump in now and tell me how piss easy it is, but after playing a bunch of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games, Nocturne was a breath of fresh air

Trails in the Sky the 3rd Nightmare new game is pretty damn difficult.

SMT (except 4) and EO are on the harder side, yeah. Nocturne's difficulty falls off late game though, SJ and 4A are better in that regards

>those early-game escort missions with Xapan or Cistina

FF 4
Tactic Ogre

Yes. JRPG is a genre at this point.
No Dark Souls is not a JRPG.

LuCT starts out fairly difficult, plunges into ez mode, then skyrockets after you rescue/an hero the princess in the final act.

Pretty retarded curve.

LuCT and FFT is unbelievably brutal when starting out and then you get to a point where you can grind like 20 minutes in and the games become cake.

>tfw I tried to take out that Necro in LUCT right after getting past the intro stages

>(masacre everyone)

>Darks Souls is not a Japanese Role Playing Game

...

>save everyone for the mongrel slut
>she dies
>restart
>massacre everyone for the mongrel slut
>have to go through some retarded shit to recruit her

fuckit, just rule with an iron fist and slam crazy fake-sister puss

What about a game where you can't grind?

Growlanser 4 is pretty damn hard.

Only if you can't grind, or if grinding is unfeasibly slow.

>SMT I and II
>hard

Most of them are, so yeah.
SMT Nocturne stands out, shit's fucking hard as balls

Something something Etrian odyssey...

Try The 7th Saga or Arc Rise Fantasia

Haven't played II but SMT I is quite possibly one of the easiest games in existence so long as you get nerve bullets.

All of them?
I don't think I played a single easy jrpg, unless it's on easy mode.
It usually hits you like a truck with enemies 30 levels higher than you and drills your asshole with 1 hit kills until you git gud and level.
So yeah, they are.

No game can be hard if you are able to understand and master the mechanics, and if you can't then it's just cheap and not truly difficult, but just artificially difficult.

applies even to MP.

no its not, in fact the complete lack of difficulty is one of the biggest flaws (and there are a LOT of flaws)

No user. Every single JRPG ever made is entirely the same difficulty wise, which is easy. There is absolutely no such thing as hard JRPG at all.

Atlus games are pretty hard in general.
Also Resonance of Fate is not really easy and can shit all over newbies at the start.
Maybe the two Baten Kaitos games ? They had a moderately hard challenge (bosses mostly could be difficult without a proper deck)

>Monster hunter is considered hard
>Monster hunter is a JRPG
hmmmmmm......

>monster hunter
>roleplaying game

>

...

ff8 is hard

No they are designed to be beaten by anyone and you will find you can brute force them through grinding which just negates the systems at some point
wizardry is not japs just borrowed a lot of stuff from it and dumbed it way down

>ff8 is hard
To stomach how bad it is maybe.

Even if you're dumb and don't know what you're doing with the junction system you can still just ride summons to victory because they're free to use, shield your characters from attack during the channel, and do a lot of damage.

7th Saga but only because of the localization fucking up the balance hard.

Not him but SMT 1 was hard in the sense I wanted to throw it out the fucking window with the constant grinding and encounter rate.

I got like half way in and stuff sort of started inexplicably kill me in 1 hit and have 9999999 hp so i was like "yeah okay, i'm good now" and i never went back
pretty much the same with every jrpg i ever played, the difficulty spikes in them are always the worst

For your average westcuck on Sup Forums even Final Fantasy games are "hard and require grinding".

It's pretty much impossible if you don't invest in the right skills ASAP and try to play strategically instead of routing the enemy to level up weapon skills. it's also a game with shit class and weapon balance. You are pretty much OP or total shit, it's not like fire emblem where you can comfortably use whatever you want.

Otherwise you will be doing virtually no damage, and run the risk of overlevling if you grind your skills so the enemies get equipment you have no access too, which just resets the problem.

Yes, magacite is full fucking retard.

Bro, just bring archers.

Not much of a problem when you can steamroll all non-boss encounters with just your humans in I.

>it's not like fire emblem where you can comfortably use whatever you want.
>game where characters literally have rng based level ups that can easily make a character straight up unusable
Fuck off FE fag.

I know, as I said you are either OP as shit or you suck. It's hard to find a middle ground with LUCT.

I mean I can break GBA fire emblems by spamming mounted units but I can't just as well use shit units like knights and archers and get by fine.

Most weapon types, classes and magic types are total shit in LUCT and require lots of investment.

>game where characters literally have rng based level ups that can easily make a character straight up unusable

except it's ridiculous for this to happen to that extent and POR has a fixed mode. Most characters in FE can get by purely on base stats.

Characters can turn out mediocre or OP. You aren't going to have someone actually be unusable even if a level 1 unit can technically go 39 levels without leveling up any stat, it would be a statistical miracle.

You mistook fucking long combat for hard though

>except it's ridiculous for this to happen to that extent
It's literally not impossible for a character with a 40% STR growth to not get a single level up in strength for over 5 levels or so.
>and POR has a fixed mode.
One fucking game in the entire series.
>Most characters in FE can get by purely on base stats.
It's not a matter of wanting to "get by", I just don't want to get gimped out of a character I like because of some arbitrary dice rolls.
>Characters can turn out mediocre or OP. You aren't going to have someone actually be unusable even if a level 1 unit can technically go 39 levels without leveling up any stat, it would be a statistical miracle.
Regardless my point is it's a shitty unfun system that servers no real strategic purpose other than frustration. Games like TO where you can actually control how your character grows and develops are much better and feel much more rewarding.

I'm replaying Mario rpg for the first time in over 15 years and they sure can be fucking annoying
>This enemy puts everyone to sleep
>This enemy makes everyone a mushroom
>This enemy puts everyone to sleep and makes everyone a mushroom, and on the off chance also can turn you to a scarecrow
People say this is the best one? Paper and M&L are so much better than this annoying shit. Again it's not difficult, it's just fucking annoying, like square made a jrpg and realized early on they didn't know Jack shit about damage or health values or how to keep the game fresh so they just add a bunch of fucking annoying status effects

FF4 DS if we count artificial difficulty and ignore slow

Yes. It's not often explored path, though. Which just makes such JRPGs get supposedly insane reputations.

This, I beat the game with 4 archers on my team if you count the hawkman

>It's literally not impossible for a character with a 40% STR growth to not get a single level up in strength for over 5 levels or so.

which doesn't make a character "unusable" by a longshot shitter,.

It doesn't make it any less shitty and obnoxious either. RNG level up systems are absolute cancer for anything not roguelikes.

How to make good non artificial difficulty in a turn based JRPG?

SaGa games, and by proxy The Last Remnant, are just obtuse, though. Give the player clear cut access to how systems work and most of the difficulty disappears.

Okay that has nothing to do with the argument that fire emblem characters and classes are competent enough to use whoever you want, without tedium unlike in LUCT.

Both LUCT and FFT have some bullshit RNG missions.

>Protect Rafa!

LUCT is still much better because you have more freedom.

DRAW YOUR SWORD DENAM

>Arc Rise Fantasia

Such a bullshit game that turned out to be really good if you played the undub. It kicked my ass around the giant plant thing and I was too scarred to go back to it.

They can be pretty fucking hard bro.

>gets killed before your units get a turn

*freedom and control

Wouldn't it be a puzzle game?

>that timeline when he dies like a little bitch

>That epic snow battle
youtube.com/watch?v=MFCz4dHcA1A

Boy if only there was a high mobility high recovery speed terrain ignoring dude that you got right at the start of the game who you could strip all the heavy gear off of and send in with just a slinger and a bunch of healing items to SAVE EVERYBODY.

based cantaloupe

>that timeline where everyone you knew dies except for your main man Canopus

FF8 has level scaling for no good reason. The more you level grind, the more bullshit it gets. You literally have to run away, spam aura, and play card games to be overpowered in that game.

People really like insane difficulties? Wiping and wiping again until you know the fight like a dance in jrpgs with 100+h is pointless. I like it challenging but I don't want to do the same shit bos 20-30 times in a row...

You're exaggerating.

It's really good even if you play dub. You're just gonna laugh a lot more if you play dub.

You may be exaggerating but yes, some people do like doing that.

>not liking difficulty

>You literally have to run away, spam aura, and play card games to be overpowered in that game.

No you don't.
Next time you play, go can ahead and fight everything, just use the summon command every turn.
It's boring as fuck because summons have long unskipable animations, and also less efficient than abusing Item Mod and Junction to do 9999 damage physical attacks on disc 1, but it's really easy to do and wins 99% of fight in the game.
In fact, I think there's only 2 bosses, one of the Seifer fights and one of the Ultemecia phases, that can actually deal with you spamming summons by insta-killing them.

>JRPG
>posts SRPG

Why do people keep equating the two?

SMTI isn't hard as you can just cheese everything with Stun Bullets but II gets a little technical at times and at the end game in particular there is a MASSIVE power spike in the enemies with the main 3 bosses being heads and shoulders over anything else the game has thrown at you.

Pic isn't II but If... is also like that as the Hazama bosses are just if not even more brutal.

I just fused some demons with Tarukaja, gave Aleph a multi-hit sword and steamrolled everything.

>no good reason
It was exactly for the reason people are complaining about, the idea of being able to circumvent all challenge by mindlessly grinding. The higher you level, the stronger the enemies get and the stronger the magic you can draw from them becomes, so leveling in a typical playthrough still makes you stronger if you use it. The system it has is certainly able to be broken but it requires taking advantage of the game's mechanics in alternative means. It's not perfect but it's an admirable attempt, and credit goes to having a minigame that can actually directly strengthen you and is worth doing.