I really hope Sonic Forces will sell well, despite being, well, not that good.
> Sonic 06
> Shitty game
> Sold well
> Next game took criticism and money and made the game with the highest production value in any Sonic game
Let's face it, Sonic Team listens. When people complained that SA2 is not enough like classics, we've got Heroes with checker boards, special stages, one gameplay style and 2 acts per zone. Then people complained that it's not edgy enough and we've got Shadow, after that people wanted SA2 and we've got 06. Even Forces is so tryhard edgy because people complained at Lost World being too Mario and not enough SA2.
The next game might be the best simply because Forces is so hated. But it needs money. Good thing that at least Mania might help with funding it and Mania Team can give feedback.
I really hope Sonic Forces will sell well, despite being, well, not that good
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Im surprised they didnt make more games like sonic rush. Everyone I knew who played it in highschool loved it. I borrowed it for awhile and finished it, thought it was great. They dont really need to make classic sonic, but 2d sonics with non invasive 3d elements are pretty fun. Nothing turns me off of a 2d game more than scaled down or low quality 3d models/characters. If youre going to make 3D, you make the whole thing visually impressive, because 2D can look great even without impressive hardware, and ages really well.
MORE GREEN HILL AND CHEMICAL PLANT AND CLASSIC SONIC
Actually, Colors and Generations 3DS are like Rush 3 and 4. And Generations 3DS didn't sell as well as Rush or Colors DS, maybe it's because it's not that good.
Then Sonic 4 and Lost World 3DS killed Dimps, so they could focus on Dragon Ball Xenoverse.
It's the most common criticism of both games in the Phantom Ruby Arc, so I expect reduction of rehashes.
Whose dick do I have to suck to get a Sonic Unleashed 2?
>phantom ruby arc
the only time sonic had an arc was adventure 2, heroes, and shadow
doesn't Sonic 2 lead directly into Sonic 3 (and obviously Knuckles)
not sure about if Sonic 1 leads straight to sonic 2 or not
No, it doesn't.
I think thats because of the low quality 3D. Plus sega has this thing where they release 5 versions of the same game of varying quality, then buyers dont realize that the DS version doesnt look as good as the console version etc.
Like hear me out about 2D. Look at games like Hoshigami on PS1. The 2D art is old as shit, but still looks like something that could come out today. Metroid return of Samus despite being brand new, pales in comparison to the higher quality 3D models of the gamecube or Wii collection metroids. Meanwhile metroid fusion? Still looks great. Put it on any platform and itll look great, and consume minimal hardware.
It's already lower than mania on the switch. I would say no, it is not selling well.
I know graphics sell, but I don't think those are the most important thing. But yeah, confusion might be a thing, thinking both versions are the same game with different graphics.
At least they could drop that with Forces on Switch.
The thing with 2D is that it's more expensive. Mania is 80% rehash for that reason, to reuse assets.
There is no hope for the next game if they keep the Lost World engine and physics.
Mania is not a good point of comparison, because it became popular among non-Sonic fans. It's an anomaly caused by casuals, just like Wii was for Nintendo consoles.
Generations and Colors are better for reference. How do Forces compare against them?
Sonic Adventure 3 With a new revamped Chao Garden PLUS the Sonic Forces OC creator with even more new species and clothes which you can play certain stages with and use in chao garden.
There i've made a 10/10 Sonic game
These assholes need to stop lying for once.
>Shit-o garden
No thanks
>Let's face it, Sonic Team listens
"Hey can yall make good sonic games?" "Nah"
Forces is literally made from a modified Lost World engine instead of the one for Generations for whatever fucking reason
We don't really have numbers on Forces yet and based on how SEGA has done their recent financial reports, I'm not sure we'll ever get a number.
That's the fault of the industry and the new set of quality standards. 2d artists are scarce because its a dying artform due to the 3d boom. Its cheaper to hire 3d artists because theres so damn many of them. I consider the leaders in 2d art right now to be wayforward, yacht club(which may as well be wayforward) and arc system works of Blazblue fame. The problem with these companies is that they produce great 2d art, but short games. If they were to team up with Nintendo or Sega to make a really high quality full length 2d Sonic or Metroid, or Castlevania game it would sell like hotcakes. They just need to invest the time and money into the project.
Make me wonder if they listens to Game Journalists instead.
3D is really cheaper to make, even on scale of a single artist. It's mostly about animations. If you'll make thousands of models with the same skeleton, you have animations for thousands of models. Maybe with some tiny adjustments, which aren't always necessary. In case of 2D you can't mass-produce animations like that, every models needs to be reanimated, unless you use some puppeteer system, which usually looks like a shitty Flash game. So it's not a fault of industry.
Thats the argument everyone brings up, but most classic games used 2d out of necessity and afforded it just fine even when it was still a growing industry. I dont think it would be hard to have a bunch of 2d artists working together to spread out the work in a large company. Each person can be responsible for the art of various enemy or environment sprites, while following the art director's example images.
The problem with your thing there is if they really were refining the game after past attempts, forces wouldn't be as it is. In fact, isn't forces basically older games done poorly in comparison?
Even if sonic team listens, they then immediately forget.
Forces is in between Colors and Gens as you praised Colors and Gens.
They used 2D because rendering 3D at the required speeds was not really possible for a long while.
3D becomes more efficient the more stuff you have to produce because 3D content can easily be recycled while the same is not as true for 2D.
2D games can still be made today, but with 2D content you're limited to a 2D plane, which limits what you can actually do, while 3D can do both a 2D plane and a 3D plane.
But at the same time the gameplay was so simple, it didn't require many frames of animation. Some games literally had bosses and enemies with two frames of animation. Goombas in SMB1 have just one frame, just it keeps being mirrored to give an illusion of moving. At the moment people expect at least 30 frames per second (Cuphead got away with 24 for stylistic reasons, you can't go lower) and games have become more complex, so they require even more animations.
Also, those old games were usually 20 minutes to 1 hour long. It's unacceptable when you can refund a game on Steam if you played for less than 2h.
Shit taste, shit post.
>for whatever fucking reason
since it's the most recent game engine it's logical to build off of that one
It alternatively would have been logical to build off of the last engine that used that style of gameplay but given how sega likes to replace most people with every new game, there probably weren't any programmers left who had used that engine before so they stuck with what was familiar
>How do Forces compare against them?
It's a Lost World romhack. That right there makes me not want anymore Boost games.
If they can't even bother being genuine and get the bloody fuckers who worked on Gens, then don't fucking bother. Why do they hate Unleashed again? Oh right, metacritics. Reminder people liked Gens for Boost Sonic gameplay, people even defends Unleashed Day Time levels, and you wanna know why? Same dev team.
Fuck people who rated Unleashed into the ground. Forces is all your fault.
It's nothing but okay. Colors and Generations are better games.
They did it for cool stuff like Infinite 1 and Capital City.
It's also a game directed by Kishimoto, who made Colors and Lost World, what implies it used what B team was familiar with.
Chao gardens are litterly the only good things about any sonic games.
Yeah, a new game in Unleashes setting would be great, it had my favorite world in a 3D Sonic game, and I want my nigga Chip back.
I also wish there was a sequel to Chronicles, and a new Storybook Series game.
Is "City" meant to be the same city from SA2, or was that just a side effect of reusing assets from the generations stage?
Is metropolis meant to be the same metropolis as heroes?
City is from animal world, SA2 is human world
Does forces take place in a different canon?
It's the same world. It's just Iizuka confusing dimensions with timelines.
Why does Sup Forums hate Sonic so much?
Yes, the non-canon canon
There were human elements in Classic Sonic games. Stop this meme shit.
There is only one human element in classic sonic games, and that's eggman
>Mania is not a good point of comparison, because it became popular among non-Sonic fans. It's an anomaly caused by casuals, just like Wii was for Nintendo consoles.
No, it was an anomaly caused by being an actually good game.
>Sonic Team Listens
Sonic Forces existing is... well, proof of that, sure, but they're listening to the WRONG people. Sonic Mania, and the people who liked, bought, and asked for it, are the people they should listen to; and I'm not saying they should always live in the past- but they should take what works and fucking KEEP IT.
They need to stop reinventing the wheel for literally no reason. Also hyper-story focused games that are not in the Adventure Format need to fucking stop, especially if they only amount to a 3 hour playtime max.
Infinite says that eggman has been defeated by sonic for "decades", but sonic is 16 canonically
Infinite only does virtual reality projections - so when the giant elongated infinite monsters destroyed bridges in stages 16, were the bridges getting destroyed in real life or does he magically give you the ability to phase through solid surfaces in order to maintain the illusion?
If infinite has the ability to change someone's gravity, why didn't he just invert gravity and make everyone fly into space?
At the end when infinite made a giant sun and it was destroyed by the ruby prototype, the ruby prototype was destroyed - so what stopped infinite from just creating a new sun?
The villain swarm included thousands of shadow fakes - but the real shadow was there too - how was he not constantly getting attacked by his own side?
I played Generations 3DS.
Generations Console had 9 levels, 3 from each sonic arc. Generations 3DS only has 7, 3 from classic, and 2 from Adventure and 2 from Modern. It also had a very weird "playcoin" system that locked out most of the minigames. It's a solid play for like 10 bucks, but it's not on any planet worth full price. Sonic Rush 1 and 2 are better games in my opinion, and are cheaper, and also have more optional content. It also didn't have Red Rings, which, love them or hate them, encouraged people to explore every route of every level, instead of just being top all the time. The levels are hilariously short, even new players will clear Green Hill's zone act 1 and 2 in under 30-40 seconds each.
There are a couple of legitimately good levels, like Aqua Palace, and the nonrival bosses are really fun. But all in all it's a really weak game for full price, but if you know what you're getting into, it's a really solid purchase.
>bloody fuckers who worked on Gens
What are they doing with does guys?
>It also had a very weird "playcoin" system
you mean the 3DS's built in playcoin system that lets you earn 10 per day by walking 1000 meters?
*Those*
Where are all the original boost level designers now? Have their names popped up in any other sega games recently or have they completely left the company?
Yes, the dumb playcoin system that any game that uses it is retarded for using, because it's a really dumb system, and all the bonus content in Generations 3DS should have instead been accessed through Red Coins- which don't exist.
No, it's not. You had Sonic's Human girlfriend that was planned in Sonic 1, S3K had human hieroglyphics shown in the background, there were bloody cities and shit all over in the Classic games, any before someone goes "the animals made them" reminder Sonic lives on South Island, namely in Green Hill Zone. What did that place look like? Oh right natural wildlife. Anything that WASN'T wildlife (aka industrial) was created by Eggman. Yet we know he only made machines of corruption and chaos, while humans made good technological advancements, hence Good Future levels in Sonic CD. You even hear human kids cheering in the background in one of them.
Forces not doing as well as Mania did will just mean we'll be getting more Mania style games from Taxman in the future which is a total win in my books. Maybe they'll even make another Adventure style game now. Who knows.
Shit I didn't know actual games used them, I've only ever used them in streetpass plaza
IGN were full of shit when they reviewed it to the point that Hilary asshole was fire from IGN
I really hope the IDW comics turn out well. Archie was a shitty publisher and the comic itself was a roller coaster in quality(just like the games) but they were pretty fun reads.
Sonic CD takes place on Little Planet, where non-humans exist. Amy, for instance, is (apparently) a native of Little Planet. The citizens of Littleplanet were apparently technologically advanced, but there is nothing saying that they were human, especially considering Amy.
Also the extended sonic lore, if you're willing to delve down the rabbit hole, is actually still Earth, but after some chaos meteor thing crashed into it, rearranged the tectonics, wiped out most (but not all) of humanity, and the survivors were exposed to radiation from the meteor, transforming most of them into anthropomorphic animals.
100% of everything I just said is canon, at least within the context of the American and Japanese comics, though I bet my life they will never mention it in-game. Humans are, and always have been, a thing.
>The comics
>Canon
I don't think so.
I'm still confused as to WHERE THE FUCK THE SONIC GAMES TAKE PLACE.
You suddenly go from it being planet Mobius, to wherever SA1, 2, Heroes, and Shadow takes place, and wherever the hell any of the games from Sonic 06 and up take place.
I'm sure some Sonic fanboy could tell me, but honestly I don't wanna know at this point. Any explanation would ruin the mystery.
It's its own planet with both humans and anthros alike. Entire planet has both types of population, but they are mostly separated, with humans tending to concentrate near Gaia temples.
1, 2 3&K, CD and Mania all take place on "Mobius" (I'm not sure if the world is ever named that in the games, their manuals or anything). They're all in one canon universe together.
Then in ANOTHER canon universe you have SA1, 2, Heroes, possibly the Advanced and Rush games together.
I'm not sure about anything after that though. This is pretty my headcanon, but the fact that there's cross-universe shenanigans established in Rush, Generations and Forces, I think it's safe to assume there's different parallel universes.
>1, 2 3&K, CD and Mania all take place on "Mobius" (I'm not sure if the world is ever named that in the games, their manuals or anything).
In the American manuals it is
>but there is nothing saying that they were human
There are no presence of any furrys like from Forces anywhere seen on Little Planet neither. Amy isn't native to LP, she followed Sonic to LP (this seemed to be what's said from sources but I think it's moreso going on the merits she hadn't got there exactly the way Sonic did). All we know is LP is a "alien planet" but nothing more outside of just being a very technological place. Only premise with humans possibly habiting the planet is the fact they were "present" in Sonic's world in all Japanese side of media before Sonic Adventure. You see them shown in concept art for Sonic Genesis era games and was in the Sonic OVA, which was inspired off of the intro used in CD. Yet nothing being like Sonic other than Amy, which again wasn't native to LP.
>Gaia temples
That's it. I'm out.
I don't even know what you're talking about anymore.
Not him but Unleashed.
The explanation is both very simple and very stupid. Mobius is Earth. Or at least, Earth after synthesis with a rogue chaos meteor. The chaos meteor created the Chaos Emeralds, Master Emeralds, Super Emeralds, as well as the various divine forces that now surround the planet, such as Gaea, Dark Gaea, Solaris, and whatnot. The meteoric impact also explains the influx of an orbiting asteroid belt around Mobius, as explained in Sonic Colors, Sonic Adventure 2, and any level that takes place in space.
All of these very stupid explanations tie together to form a world that SORT OF makes sense. The best thing to do is just roll with it.
It's from Sonic Unleashed.
They dont need that many frames of animation though. Literally the same amount of frames used in Castlevania SOTN would make everyone happy in a brand new castlevania game. The industry 'standards' are setting difficult barriers to production costs, they arent necessary. Axiom verge was made by one guy, and even if isnt the greatest artist, the 2d sprites and the game in general has been critically acclaimed.
I've just read through the JP manual of the first game. There's no mention of the planet's name, but they talk about "South Island".
Also interesting to note, Eggman is already referred to as "Doctor Eggman" in the JP manual. I'm not sure how it was in the US, but in the UK manual he was called Robotnik, the first time he was called Eggman was in Sonic Adventure 1.
know that both the American and Jap manuals hated each other so much that both had their own version of Sonic
>this entire post
>meteor
>gaea
What the absolute FUCK are you even talking about.
I've played every Sonic game except Colors and Unleashed, just what in the actual hell did I miss?
>100% of everything I just said is canon, at least within the context of the American and Japanese comics,
>Comics
>Game canon
Excuse me?
I'm assuming we got the American version here in the UK. I don't even remember reading any of the manuals, I think I made assumptions about the story based on what was happening in-game.
What's next after Phantom Ruby?
you guys got fleetway because you werent allowed access to the archie stuff
so I guess you got the European/Jap side of it while we marketed it differently for Americans
and it worked
Tangible Sapphire
Rogue Opals
There's three of them, each tied to a character's emotions. They feed on those emotions to grant the wielder power.
Bloodstone Tendency
>Gaia Manuscripts
Oh boy, I can't wait to hear this one.
Good god, what the fuck is gonna happen next. Continue.
You Archiefags can fuck right off. There's no need to explain what Sonic's World is, it's just Sonic's World. It doesn't need any more explanation than that.
>three
>not two
Is there something I am missing?
Chris-chan seems to like it.
Colors gets retardedly sitcom-tier
Smith is garbage and you dont go on a crazy Adventure
Dont worry about it
No, asshole. You listen to me.
You can't go from
>PEOPLE OF EARTH, LEND ME YOUR EAR
>MR. PRESIDENT
to
>WE'RE MARIO GALAXY NOW
and then to whatever the fuck Sonic Forces is, without explanation.
The Sonic world is THE most inconsistent world and lore I've ever seen. Final Fantasy has the decency to openly admit that they're all different universes, but Sonic needs to fucking explain itself right now.
please dont project your game canon onto the comic's canon
they are both separate :)
>Lore
I don't play Sonic games for that. No one should.
I love Sonic. I want to see him do well, but Forces is not acceptable after a four year wait.
The only Sonic related thing I'm looking forward to now is the comics.
And I want to see Snively come back
but thats not going to fucking happen
It's a video game franchise, and they treat each title as a video game.
They build each game detached from any lore without having to worry too much about background shit.
And then they make some games where they do care about the lore which fucks everything up.
How else would all this mess happened? If they had remained consistent they could have had a universe that really actually doesn't care, like Mario.
But then again, you will always always have that one group of autistic people who will go to the ends of the earth to try and piece things together.
>The Great Ape War
>Mario lore
I'm actually surprised Forces brought back so many characters after an entire decade of people screaming shit like
>SONIC NEEDS TO STOP GETTING NEW FRIENDS EVERY FUCKING GAME
I always hated that criticism because for some fucking reason they applied it to Tails and Knuckles as well, and that's going too damn far.
Thank fuck for Mania.
I have no idea why people complain about Sonic's friends
Sonic has pretty much been the only one playable in 3D since 06
Hey.
Yo.
Fuck you, I was asked SPECIFICALLY to explain this stupid shit, then gave a disclaimer saying it was stupid.
You either have the extended universe Comic explanation, or NO explanation. Pick one.
Nobody gives a fuck about the classic characters because they werent an "issue" like the 3D characters
No explanation needed. When you focus on frivolous shit like lore and story over gameplay and physics, you get every Sonic game past Advance 3. Heroes was the start of the bad Sonic titles.
>No explanation needed
Except he asked for one, you sperg. I similarly agree that it's not required to know, but so long as someone wants an answer, I'll give them it.
And the comics aren't a good way to explain it. Stop using them as a basis. They don't have any impact on the games and never will. Explaining Sonic lore is tantamount to tanning in the rain. You comicfag secondaries are cancer.
So shit?
I don't even READ the comics. I never have, and never will, I'm just aware of the information because I've asked people who "were' comicfags. Having a weird off-kilter spinoff explanation is better than having no explanation.
You need to stop fighting so hard over this, your entire argument is reductionist and argues against something that unfortunately ALREADY exists.
Besides, the Sonic Comics are the only reason Little Planet even exists, and that's in the games. So get bent.
>You comicfag secondaries are cancer.
I wasnt aware sonicfags think they are above ANYONE lol
>I've asked people who "were' comicfags
And they never played the games. You don't need to explain Sonic's World, it's just the way it is. You transition from a sunken ruin to a modern-day casino, simple as that. If you need lore to enjoy a game you're as pathetic as the Archieshitters.
>Little Planet
Give a source or fuck right off, I see no such claim being found at all.