Muh Nihilism

>Muh Nihilism

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Is the first one worth playing? I've heard it has issues on pc that the second doesn't. I'm more interested in the second anyway.

You need to play the first to understand the context of the second. The first kotor isn't bad, it's just Star Wars simplistic kid friendly good versus evil with some mild observation about Star Wars. Kotor 2 notices those criticism and makes them the central theme and message.

Just download the GOG version, that one is clean enough to play through on W10. There are a few tweaks as well if you Google it.

Thanks anons, I'll pick them up when I get the chance.

Make sure you play a darkside character for better plot and the option to corrupt your party members.

Oh I get it. OP is a retarded faggot.

first one first, second one second

isn't she more like Machiavelli?

And when you play Kotor 2, make sure you get the Restoration Mod. It makes the game complete.

She's more of a female Iago with a royal queen attitude with the archetype of Ravel.

How bad is the game without it? Usually whenever I see someone ask about a old game, like vtmb everyone tells them to play it unpatched first.

How fucking retarded must a poster like this be when one of the characters in this game was called Darth Nihilus and several of Kreias monologues were addressing how wrong he was?

>WHY DIDNT YOU GIVE THAT OLD MAN ALL YOUR MONEY YOU PIECE OF SHIT FUCK YOU HE LITERALLY NEEDS YOUR HELP

>ITS YOUR FAULT THAT OLD MAN GOT MUGGED. SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HELP PEOPLE? ALL. YOUR. FAULT. SCUMBAG

kreia is deep

It's a lot more playable unmodded than KotOR 1, but the additions just make it a little better. That said, you'll be able to play through KotOR 2 without mods just fine. Make sure you have DirectPlay enabled.

Without the restoration patch, kotor2 has no ending and more bugs in it than ps4.

KotOR 1 is now backwards compatible for Xbone if you can't be fucked with mods.

tfw Steve was one of the best characters unintentionally

It's incomplete. Though I haven't played the unmodded game since like 2005 or so. Just play with the mod.

OP didn't play the game; he just heard another person who didn't play or understand the game critique it and regurgitated their opinion.

>Avellone can't stop self-inserting into everything he writes while also not giving you any option to contradict him other than "you're a poopy head"
Wooooooow, how unexpected

>muh muh

This is what I hated about her. That scene gives you two choices of what to do and she shits on you either way with some stupid moral lecture that changes depending on which of the two choices you made. There's basically no point because regardless of what you do, you're wrong. Which I guess is the point of her character but then why bother playing the game at all

>WHY DIDNT YOU GIVE THAT OLD MAN ALL YOUR MONEY YOU PIECE OF SHIT FUCK YOU HE LITERALLY NEEDS YOUR HELP
>gee wizz I wonder what happens if you give a homeless man millions of dollar randomly for no reason
It's almost as if money is a form of power and people should earn their power with their own strength rather than having it randomly bestowed upon them because it might create further suffering by making them a target.
It literally is your fault he got mugged.

>obsidrones actually believe this

Why has no other SW game been able to make lightsabers feel super powerful like the Kotor games did?
Finally building yours in II is the best feeling ever

In the game files, there was supposed to be a third option where you would act apathetic and not do anything. It's actually the 3rd option but the beggar begs further if you pick that option. It's very likely that the devs wanted to make sure you learned the lesson over the possibility of players missing it by being apathetic by default. I mean, how many people actually give to homeless people on the streets or randomly start punching them? It's natural that people would act apathetic first, so only leaving a light side / dark side option, criticizing both, was the better solution.
And honestly, it's not like the entire game isn't scripted that way. Whether you kill the Jedi Masters or not, you still end up killing Kreia at the end. The point is that your singular choices matters and affect others, but not the most important parts, not your end destiny.

>its a "no one understand this scene!" episode

That's not a refutation.

And this is not an argument.

Maybe one day canon it'll be canon.

You missed the point entirely.

>there isnt always a good answer

woaaaah really walked my dog

>Goes to the dark side because she didn't get the D

>KOTOR 1 and 2 not on sale on the steam autumn sale
Fuck, guess I'll have to hope for the Christmas sale. I don't even know if my toaster can run KOTOR 2 but I still want it if I uprade in the future.

Just pirate them. Those games are so old anyway, who cares?

Literally the entire point of her character is that everyone who clings blindly to one side of the Force is an idiot, so she argues the other side no matter what you pick. She explicitly tells you this in the Dark Side version of the Jedi Enclave, when she tells you that she has "taught you to hear the Force again, shown you the contrast." The Sith are retarded because they literally enslave themselves to the Dark Side just to kill the Jedi, while the Jedi were destroying themselves before they ever went to war because they were excessively traditionalist--to the point where they were terrified of you, and refused to learn anything from your example, because you were different. When the Jedi make their decision to cut off your connection to the Force, she tells them you "have brought truth" and "I have endured your corruption of my other students, you shall not have this one." All she wants is you to look at situations from both angles and understand the consequences of your actions rather than jumping the gun straight to the most Jedi or most Sith option.

X approaches zero though, not infinity

...

Which sounds all very nice, until you realize that game only lets you play either Jesus or Hitler, all of it just to railroad you into yet another Kreia's lecture. As in, Avellone's lecture how he is super smart and all players are idiots for daring not to consider that a movie explicitly made with only black and white morality in mind doesn't take into account
>muh grey morality

Almost there, keep going.

i said she's deep user and showed a deep example of her being deep. what more would you like? she's deep, get over it.

Check g2a

The grey morality is wrong and Kreia does not advocate it. Grey morality is apathy, which is death. There is no such thing as grey morality in Star Wars.

Is it possible to go full gray and does it change the ending?

>consider both light and dark side before making your choice, exile
>stop farming light and dark side point, exile, even though it's the only to unlock the prestige class, I say
>manipulate everyone for your benefit, exile
>not grey morality

She doesn't actually have anything against Jesus, and in fact ends up loving the shit out of you for it. She just doesn't want you to Jesus for the sake of Jesusing, she wants you to be the best Jesus possible, even better than all the other asshole Jesuses who kicked her out of the Jesus Club. To do that, you can't just do what seems best at the time, or else you might make things worse--she wants you to understand what you're doing from both sides and make an informed decision. Just about every single Influence loss from doing "generic Light/Dark options" can be regained or even exceeded by just telling her "wow I never thought about it that way, I'll give it some thought" because that's all she wants you to do. Be a good student and learn to think for yourself. There's a reason she usually asks "why did you do that" first thing.

Lies, the first one does absolutely nothing necessary to understand the second game.
You will feel like you are missing out on some plot when starting 2 without playing 1 but I assure you everything you feel missing happened off-screen.

You said you are interested in 2 more than 1. KOTOR 1 is a very predictable good v.s. bad story. If you were bothered by Episode 7s lack of originality compared to 4 it will be the same thing here, better to get to the good part which is 2.
I think my enjoyment of KOTOR 2 had been bigger had I not slogged through 1 first. The beginning of both games is extremely slow, 1 more than 2 though that's a topic of debate here. 2 is a step up in every regard, that's a fact.

The cutscenes and dialogue options were a nice addition and especially necessary for the ending and some optional companion dialogue.
The added fights are railroading pieces of shit forcing you to use characters which you might have mis-managed or forcing you using shit equipment since the good equipment is currently used by unavailable characters. The infamous deleted HK level made me cheat insta-kill weapons because of the amount of enemies with fucking long health bars, empty hallways and backtracking.

>>consider both light and dark side before making your choice, exile
She said to consider your actions, not ''points''.
If you give power to people, it causes more harm. If you randomly cause more harm by enacting your passions, falling further to the dark side for nothing, you waste yourself for pointless reason.
Prestige classes are irrelevant.

>>manipulate everyone for your benefit, exile
>be selfish
>not dark side

Grey morality does not exist in Star Wars. You can only be selfish, selfless or apathetic.

Not really no
The best ending is pretty much to go full Light Side, tell Kreia you'll think about it ad infinitum, and try to not kill her at the final boss
Do that and she'll start fellating you all over the place

No. The Force controls your destiny. It doesn't matter what you do.

>Prestige classes are irrelevant.
>actual gameplay of actual game is irrelevant
>the things you have to do to enjoy the game fully is irrelevant
stopped reading right there. If I wanted to read a moralizing book, I'd read a fucking book.

>implying Kotor 2 isn't a VN with some gaming elements
I bet you think Planescape Torment isn't a VN as well.

>planescape is a vn meme
Epic, you probably never even played it.

I bet you also haven't played Kotor 2.

True, but the only reason I'm worried about KOTOR 2 is because the steam version doesn't support XP and I'm still running on a like 9 year old windows xp computer. I can run Skyrim on high graphics settings just fine though. I guess I could buy Kotor 1 and pirate 2 but fuck Bioware.

>if one is to understand “the great mystery” one must study all it’s aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the force.
So are grey Jedi actually evil?

Grandma isn't nihilist or grey or anything stupid like that. She wanted you to help people but in a way that does not make them dependent. Which is probably why she hates the force, because Jedi and Sith are dependent on it.

So did a lightside playthrough of Kotor 1 but now i wanna do a dark side of Kotor 2

Is there any viable builds for Kotor 2?
I also wanna do a guns based build but i don't know how viable that would be

every build is viable if you git gud

Dark side playthrough of Kotor II makes you miss out on a lot of the good dialogue when you get to the restored enclave

Good old Downloads

From the dialogue options you can make it sound grey but it still counts as light side.
Also pisses me off how to even have a chance at the "grey" ending are not allowed to kill Jedi. Kill even one and you get railroaded and treated as if you were space Hitler.

Yes. She is a utilitarian. She wants what is the best for the most amount of people. Or at least what she thinks is best for them.

I kind of agree with her point to an extent. The force has hurt, maimed, killed, and started holy wars that the common man has suffered and died meaninglessly for.

Meanwhile the force users are the only ones benefiting from the destruction of everyone else. Also with the force being cyclical and no one force user able to balance it it will always go crazy and have some big holy war.

Her plan to destroy the force so that it frees people from its destruction is in my mind a noble one. How she communicates this and acts on it is less than ideal as she is an edgy sith lord still. Perhaps she was simply using that to justify her schemes as a Sith and never had any intention? I mean she is basically the patron Sith of lies.

I like her character and only those who look at her surface level will hate her. I think she is my most favorite of the KOTOR era sith actually. More interesting then herp derp Malak who is the stereotypical bad guy because we say so to a T.

You don't need builds in Kotor 2. Put enough points into charisma and you can be heavy lightside, impress Kreia with some pragmatism and some "Ill consider your perspective" all the while you Force storm entire rooms of enemies with barely any alignment penalty

The only remotely difficult portion of the game is arguably when you land on Telos.

>are dependent on it

They hammer this point home really hard, actually. Sion and Nihilus literally need the Force to continue existing; they're slaves to it in pretty much every sense. Sion falls apart without it, Nihilus starves to death without it. The Jedi Masters aren't so literal, but when Kreia severs their connections to the Force, they choose death over a life without it, unlike the Exile. The Exile proved her philosophies right, that's why she was so furious when they never even tried to understand you and tried to destroy you instead.

Depends what you mean. Most Grey Jedi (and idiots that like Grey Jedi) advocate Potentium, which is basically just not caring about the Dark Side and using whatever powers. The problem is that using all aspects of the Force is a selfish ideology, since you're seeking to use the Force as a tool in all aspect, rather than just being a servant of the Force and only using it as self-defense. This is why, in no small part, the Grey Jedi fall to the Dark Side in greater number than the regular Jedi.

I always find it tragically ironic how Sion falls apart without it. He is basically pure flesh and does not use the Force in any aspect. In all but one, he has given up the Force, but because he needs the Force to remain alive, he stands against everything Kreia stands for.

I liked taris
fuck all of you not even reading shit if you respond Taris was perfect.

Kreia is honestly what Disney is missing in their characters. She's PURE IDEOLOGY, even if her ideology is to reject two others and create your ubermenche ideology. She has backbone.

Put some Kreia in their Villians and some Rei into their Rey.

Also our Nameless Lolfag put out another video on Kreia if anyone in this thread hasn't seen it yet.

youtu.be/6EMc_S_vAsk

>Is there any viable builds for Kotor 2?
Yes, it's hard to make an unviable build.
>I also wanna do a guns based build but i don't know how viable that would be
Become Sith Assassin for Sneak Attack. Get Dual Pistols + Rapid Shot for maximum attacks per round. At last either learn Stasis Field or have an NPC learn it.

Every attack (including ranged attacks) against a stunned enemy automatically gets the 10-60 Sneak Attack bonus damage on top of the normal damage.

>Sion was a force zombie
>Nihilus was literally an unnatural wound in the force with a human form

why did Obsidian go so wacky with the fantasy aspects of Star Wars?

Just look for a torrent of windows 7 and install it.
Or upgrade your toaster the coming holidays.

This! Also Darth Matt is TOR is excellent. He actually care about his people. He simply thinks that a strong central authority is the best way to govern people and that the Sith are the most capable of doing that. He wants people to see the Sith as an actual Empire who can rule its people fairly and justly not simply as an ends to defeat the Jedi or personal gain. I love that about him. At the end of the day though he is a Sith and will fight for what he believes in because he thinks there is something good in it for the people. Even if you disagree with him you can't help but admire the guy.

Marr was a pragmatic evil we rarely see and I miss him dearly. :( So underrated as a Sith.

Disney needs villains like that again who have that human element to them instead of walking pure evil for the lulz villains who make no sense.

That soundtrack though

By Jedi standards and practically all EU stories, yes. Grey Jedi are always failures ruled by dark side influence because they don't supress their humanity which is a central part of the Jedi. Many Sith just started out as grey Jedi like the guy from the Invasion comics, Revan and Dooku.

Many Sith are practically grey jedi which were sidetracked by dark side influence to only care about conquest and gaining power. I really dislike the idea that regardless of what your intentions are, if you don't completely surpress your humanity it will with no exception open a door for the dark side to basically make you a retard.

You can finish KOTOR 1 with blasters.
I doubt that you could kill all of KOTOR 2s bosses with one though.

Prestige classes should make fights easy. Because I wanted to stay grey in 2 I never reached the max alignment in time to get a Prestige class but was still overpowering everybody.

To prove by way of literal character criticism the failures of the Sith. Sion only cares about destroying the Jedi and has insane will to power. Yet he does nothing.
Nihilus only cares about growing his power and obtaining more power with the Force. Yet he is a black hole without a will. They are the end extremes of the Sith.

It's the same with the Jedi Master. Vrook is the Jedi Master that claim to know everything, plans everything without a care of how it affects others. Yet, he is completely blind and arrogant.
Kavar is so naive when you meet him on Onderon that he's just happy to teach you new moves. Yet, his teaching on how to fight destroys the galaxy countless times. He's also horribly patriotic to the Republic. Zez-Kei-Ell is the Grey Jedi that sees the problem of the Jedi but is chill hanging around doing nothing for the rest of his life without bringing to light his problems. Atris is basically the problem of the Jedi rolled into one.
The problem with every single one of them is that they could not let go of power, they could not let go of the Force. Even Kreia, despite knowing everything and hating the Force could not let go of power. That's why she admires the Exile. You are the only person to ever let go of power to live.

>its that bug that mutes the audio and skips the all the dialog at the worst possible time again.

The fucking worst part of kotor is this fucking bug.

>Atris
>listening to a few Sith holocrons screech at her was enough to turn her to the dark side

what was her problem?

>I really dislike the idea that regardless of what your intentions are, if you don't completely surpress your humanity it will with no exception open a door for the dark side to basically make you a retard.
That's because humanity is selfish. We want to use the Force as if it were a tool but it corrupts so fast. Even the greatest of the Sith lament this in that Sith book that using your passions is prolonging the inevitable. The Dark Side is a drug, and the more you use it, the quicker you slip and get fucked. The Exile is basically the only person ever to be able to go full Dark Side without losing its ego.

...

Vrook's practically a fucking Sith Lord himself already, dude's pissed off all the time and completely up his own ass. Worse, he infects the other two with his bullshit; when they're alone they're pretty receptive to you, but once they all get together they turn on you.

Not getting the dick. But honestly, it was the same problem as Kreia in her youth. Atris hated that the Jedi were cowards and that many fell to the Dark Side. She wanted to learn about the Sith to find out how to destroy it. Much like how Kreia eventually learned about the Force as a poison to kill it. Doing so made her human, but at the cost of falling completely to the Dark Side.

Vrook was just psychologically broken after having survived two Jedi purges in a row

The main issue with a blaster MC in Kotor 1 is that you're forced to use Bastila in the last dungeon. You have to give her blasters since her STR and CON stats far too low to work as a lightsaber melee fighter but there aren't many good blasters in the game.

It's insane how he literally spills the beans at the beginning of the game like a fucking idiot and the Jedi Master scramble to just tell him to shut up. Sure, he was always right, but goddamn did he not give a single shit about potentially being wrong.

Also, ironically, in Kotor 1, you can lie about not wanting to turn evil/fall to the Dark Side and Vrook is the only one to call you out on being a lying shit. I always found that funny. The rest of the Jedi Masters don't seem to notice or care. You can literally tell them that you killed Juhani, especially if you didn't try, and they go 'ah oh well, whatever'.

ITT soyboys that think they know EU content because they played two Xbox games and whom have already booked their ticket to the midnight showing on the 14th of next month.

But she isn't at all nihilist.
I really wish brainlets would stop throwing that term around, they have no idea what it entails.

>that scene after the end of Kotor II Restored mod with Carth as an admiral and Bastila

so how did Bastila survive Nihilus draining that one planet?

the old EU was an ocean shit with a few diamonds floating around in it, KOTOR I&II were diamonds

>so how did Bastila survive Nihilus draining that one planet?
She wasn't there.

You mean Katarr? That revolved around Visas, not Bastila.

Also I'd like to think that only some of the Jedi Masters went to that planet. And Bastila wasn't really ever promoted to being a Master.

Will we ever get an HD remaster in Frostbite to make them canon again?

Canon doesn't matter, especially when Disney canon is garbage

I want an Old Republic game where you fight Exar Kun.

>frostbite
>kotor

Theee is grey in Star Wars dumbass.

Dragon age III looked fine in frostbite and the combat was somewhat similar, a competent dev team (not Bioware) could probably make it work

By then she quit the order with Revan and refused the call back from the order.