He's the most villainous protagonist in video gaming history, right?

He's the most villainous protagonist in video gaming history, right?

He did the right thing. You'll understand when you're older.

Better than your usual japanese emo, insecure, loser, cuck shit

Marche was right.

You forgot soyboy chad.

FUCK THAT YOU'RE GOING HOME was singlehandedly responsible for making the FFTA plot even slightly interesting, so he's probably on the upper end of FF leads for just that.

That man is my friend, he fights for my health.

Please explain. From reading the plot on Wikipedia, I think Marche was stupid.

It reminds me of the Reason of Musubi from Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne.

No, he was definitely the correct one. He was literally redpilled like Neo.

Escapism legitimately isn't healthy. You need to get out and live life.

Escapism is inevitable in this life. In fact, practically all of mankind's narratives constitute a form of escapism, and I do not mean this like a Continental Philosophy or Critical Theorist faggot. I mean it more in the sense of Schopenhauer's idea of aesthetic experience.

I don't like people who shame others for escapism. It's something prevalent I've noticed among plebs who think they're deep. Even a name constitutes a form of escapism. To impose order on this world in order to feel secure is a kind of escapism from the Heraclitean fiery flux, in some sense.

Except this is an entire world with sapient beings. Destroying all of that to go back isn't right.

Don't tell me what I need to do. There is no way to step outside one's narrative until it dissolves. Look up "Default Mode Network". New research shows it is persistently active. In a sense, everyone is already living in his or her Matrix.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with escapism largely because it cannot be avoided. Immersing oneself in art is like escapism too.

T. someone excaping their shitty life using the internet and other trash instead of doing something to better themselves.

Everyone was quite literally running away from their problems. They'd never see their real family and friends again had they stayed.

And besides, things worked out for the best, and they can revisit anytime they want now.

Why not? My world is more important than the book world because I'm strong enough to destroy it.
World of Strength my man.

>Destroying all of that to go back isn't right.
They didn't though. Did you not finish the game?

There's explanations for every possible outcome
1.- If all that shit is literally escapism his friends are just beingburdens in the real world, but of course the game is real.
2.-If Li Grim doesn't exists, Mewt is fucking a entire nation of innocent people, remember how much everybody here hated the judge system? Yeah, it was made for precious prince Mewt
3.- Ultimately the real outcome was everyone was being leeched of their vitality by the goddess of the grimoire, so everyone was going to die and the book would just wait for new victims in the real world.

Educating uninformed anons with bad opinions is the highest cause you can have.

Most everyone is changed against their will.
Jadg kill people
And Mewt is in danger of becoming more and more unhinged.

Marche did nothing wrong.

Those sapient beings often took the form of people from the real world. Remember how the bullies were turned into mindless zombies?

>bullies turned into mindless zombies
They had it coming. Nothing wrong in making the lives of a few assholes worse to make innocent people have a better life. That's literally what the concept of justice is.

kupo

Most people who insult others over escapism are people who can't conceive actually being in a position of clawing your way out of hole by yourself and have no concept of life without their social support structure.

t. Mewt

Being turned into zombies was an excessive punishment for schoolyard bullying. Marche was 100% in the right to force everyone back to reality.

Honestly, I don't even mind Marche's FUCK YOU BACK TO THE WHEELCHAIR antics. In a sense I can perfectly understand it.
His life was perfectly fine. He loved his family, he was in a new place he had an interest with, and he got robbed from all of it because other people couldn't cope with their shit.
If someone took away my loving parents and essentially doomed them to non-existence and told me to deal the fuck with it because I don't have any issues, I'd fuck their shit world too. Happily, even.

Now barring all that, I am more surprised about Marche's soldiers.
Literally a guild worth of people fighting their hardest to... get their world destroyed? Because they aren't real... because a random kid that joined them a week ago said so?
That, if anything, makes me tilt my head.

>moralfags are hypocrites
wow, what an amazing insight

>Better than your usual japanese emo, insecure, loser, cuck shit
This, also people tend to exaggerate and act like Marche was some heartless douche when he thought a lot about what he was doing and even doubted himself once or twice.

His brother was a cripple that spent most of his life in a wheelchair. That doesn't sound very healthy to me. Adventuring with pals in a world where you're guaranteed to be safe so long as you stay out of like 3 parts of the world seems a lot healtheir.

Clanfags are mercenaries in the purest sense of the word, they could kill their mothers for one coin.

Also, Ivalice wasn't destroyed and the queen was an asshole to everyone.

Most everyone escapes in some way or another, be it books/art/movies/video games/hobbies. Even money and social constructs are escapism, considering you're altering the world for the purpose of increasing standard of living. The only life free of escapism is back country living where you literally produce everyone from nature and your own hard work. It would give you the greatest sense of accomplishment possible since it's truly living in the natural world, but what do you gain from other humans besides that?

If you think that that feeling of truly living is worth it, then yes escapism is bad. However, if you can't pull off that completely natural way of living then you must accept escapism as being ok. You have to take into consideration moderation as well though, as you can overdo escapism (hard drugs/alcoholism). If your escapism doesn't negatively affect others then I think it's acceptable, which in Marche's case is debatable.

Marche destroyed a whole universe of creatures. How is it escapism when everything done there was real for everyone living in that realm? There's no difference from what you and i experience everyday. It was just a brutal genocide.

They aren't human so it's okay.

Well sure, in the end it wasn't and it turns out by chance of fate you were actually freeing an alternate world of sorts from an evil... demon goddess. But really none of them had even a remote hint of that, not even we did until we scrunged up information from every corner of the wikies in order to understand what the fuck was even all of that business. For all they were told they were literally going to an hero at the queen.

>marche destroyed a whole universe of creatures
.....what?

>A universe was destroyed!
I love the made up version of events you fags always invent.

Except the world was utter shit and was created by the arbitrary whims of a 10 year old

>If your escapism doesn't negatively affect others then I think it's acceptable, which in Marche's case is debatable.
They were going to die, nigga.

Not that guy, but didn't they only learn the Queen was sucking their life essence towards the last quarter of the plot? I think it was after they smashed the 4th crystal somewhere.

Excuse me but considering the world that Ivalice was feeding off of was effectively Marche's, you realize that him doing nothing would have just as well had the exact same effect (the arbitrary destruction of a world), except him not returning things to normal meant everyone in Ivalice would die plus his parents would be erased from existence.

Didn't Judge Cid hinted that Mewt wasn't the source of power of Ivalice but the Queen/Whatever took the form of the Queen?
That happens after beating one Totema.

Pots, kettles, etc.
Also, don't use memes you don't understand.

It's been a while since I've played the game, but was this an imminent death kind of a thing or a "slowly sucking the world dry" kind of a deal?

Because if the big bad wasn't going to instantly annihilate everyone, then I don't see how it's any different from our world. Replace the big bad with global warming or the sun exploding and it's the same shit.

But if it was a straight up world-ending-instantly nuke kind of a deal then yeah you're right

Marche whole quest is destroying the things that keep the world together. Yep, Ivalice is completely destroyed when they leave.

The grimoire even says that if you held that entire world in your hands you'd be holding nothing. Did you play the game or are you just parroting dumb shit you read here?

Everyone in Ivalice was just a transformed human. That's pretty clear from the first three zombies sharing the names of the bullies you fought in the tutorial. No one died or got hurt, they turned back to the way things were before. The wish was undone. And since she was giving their souls the succ, obviously fixing shit was the right choice. People have just forgotten the plot, or misremembered it.

If only there was some strict proof of you being wrong.

It literally isn't. We're shown them revisiting Ivalice after the game is over, faggot.

It says that but tell me how was Ivalice different from our world? How the people in those taverns were any different from people in our cities? They all had a life and memories of it.

It's other Ivalice. You break the crystals, the world is destroyed and another is born.

/thread

It's literally not a plot point, somebody here made it up and people bought it but no there are no physical consequences to staying in the world.

Because they literally were the people from your world brainwashed to be other people, you dense motherfucker.

Why do people think that if a crippled retard gets bullied, then it's okay to let him rule the world with an iron fist and punish his bullies who had been turned into monsters?

Who do you think most of Sup Forums would sympathize with?

How are you certain you aren't faggot? We have no proof everyone is that. Montblanc certainly didn't seem like it.

>why do people on Sup Forums sympathize with a power hungry crippled retard
Almonds...activating...

>She was giving their souls the succ

No she wasn't, she was just the physical manifestation of everyone's wishes that kept the world together, which Marche physically beats the shit out of so he can go home. Mewt's desire to stay in the world wavers in the last battle and weakens her but it's unclear if Mewt's desire weakened because the manifestation of his wishes was damaged or if the wishes being damaged weakened Mewt's resolve.

Because they identify with the cripple.

Because they see themselves as the cripple, and want to live out their fantasies through him. While better adjusted people would identify with Marche instead.

Marche for Dissidia Chaos side when?

How the hell does it matter? It's clear that absolutely everyone in your world was turned into something else or erased, be it into pebbles or into the rest of the people in Ivalice. Why would Marche not want to save his world, his parents not the least, over something he knows is fabricated and has doomed countless people to agony at the very least?

Yeah, I think it was confirmed quite late.
But the the judges were already fucking everyone's shit from the start and anytime when Mewt got triggered by something the laws got worse and worse.
Only Marche was shown messing with Mewt but who knows if only there he started throwing tantrums.

We don't know, Mewt was the closest one to the queen and by the creation of Llednar he already looked like a zombie.
Perhaps a gradual but-not-so-much draining of their lives.

People aren't arguing that changing the world in the first place was okay, obviously leaving it would have been the right choice. But we're asking if what Marche did was the right thing, not Mewt. Obviously Mewt was a little faggot that fucked everything up in the first place

What the fuck are you talking about? How does that relate to Remedi parasiting on Mewt? Replay the game, or at least open a wiki or something.

Except Marche was never doing for saving his world. All he did was beat the crap out of everyone and "convince" them that they need to go back.
Marche accomplished every FF antagonist wetdream, completely destroying the world he's in. Well done.

He's order through and through

You are just arguing for the sake of it, aren't you

What about the people that were in agony in the first world that got better lives in Ivalice? Fuck them right?

As usual, Marche fags are fatally myopic.

It's a fun discussion. But i mean it, Marche thing was so poorly done that it opens these breaches in his motivations. He had it too easy in comparison to his friends and Ivalice wasn't explored like some evil reality or anything like that. It was a world with a different setting and we are suppose to feel good about destroying it or something? No, it's the same shit as destroying any world.

Of course he is. LE MARCHE IS THE REAL VILLAIN is "THE CAKE IS A LIE" tier.

This is what I always thought when this debate came up. Surely Mewt and Ritz weren't the only ones that got a better life out of this transformation? Seems like a dick move to decide the fate of the entire known universe on the lives of three children. If the overall happiness of the masses went up then keeping Ivalice would have been the better move

He's a little boy whisked away with his brother involuntarily to a dimension that won't let him see his real family again. How is this not adequate motivation to try to get home?

He's breaking a dangerous illusion, not destroying an entire world
>but you can play after the end of the story
That way you can finish all the quests, doesn't make it canon

Yep, when I was a young teenager, I didn't understand Marche either, but now at mid-20s, I agree with Marche.

I'm just going to throw oil on the fire by mentioning that there is sort of an alternate ending where Marche stays in Ivalice and essentially sets himself up as the big dick in charge. You have to finish all 300 of the regular missions to unlock the chain though.

Because his brother is a cripple in the "real" world? If everyone is in Ivalice like people love to say it is, why not find them there? Why are we erasing Ivalice from existing doing it?
How is it okay, some blonde teenager walks up your street, break some crystal and you're fucking erased? How is this guy the hero?

How is it OK to leave your own world erased in favor of this new one?

>erased
Transformed, dispshit. They are transformed back. How is it okay to morph the entire world's population into horrible monsters and freaks for your own personal fantasy? God damn son, THINK.

It's not OK, but it's a deserved revenge for those who bullied him.
He couldn't shoot up the school like a real man, but he could do it the other way.

Not who you're responding to, but that doesn't justify it does it? I mean even if his motivations were sound, the opinion of one tween on the existence of the world shouldn't ever come into question.

If someone unwillingly plugged me into the matrix and I couldn't leave without breaking it, then tough fucking shit for you my friend.

And this isn't even a good comparison, because Ivalice itself remains to exist. Just without you or me inside of it. Faggot.

>GET IN THE WHEELCHAIR WERE GOING HOME
What did he mean by this?

It's not cool to morph everything in the first place, you're right on that. But that's not what's in question right now is it? Everyone knows Mewt was a little faggot, but what's done is done. The question is if it was right for Marche to change things back or not, which I think we're left with waaaaay too little information about to come to a conclusion about.

>be a crippled soyboy
>JUST BE URSELF BRO

His brother(?) should've thrown boiling acid on his face and tell him the same.

They didn't do it on purposed though. On Ivalice though, Marche is on it on purpose.
So to fix an accident, we cause another? Is it okay erase their world because it ain't yours?

It doesn't. That Ivalice is destroyed, another is set in faggot.

>but that doesn't justify it does it?
It absolutely does. Ivalice is a magical illusion and real people are trapped in it. I'm sorry but if Marche wants out and can manage it with his own hands, who is to say he's wrong to?

The game provides you all the information you need, you're either ignorant of it, or you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. It isn't remotely ambiguous. This is fucking Final Fantasy dude. You're tripping on your own dick.
>erase
Too dumb to fucking live.

>there are people in this fucking board who actually thought marche was wrong

Play the fucking game and if you did get a new set of morals to live by.

>Too dumb to fucking live.
>He thinks he was playing in the same Ivalice
The ironing.

It's not an illusion though, the world literally transformed into Ivalice. You're right though, if Marche has the power to make it happen than that's all the justification you need. Might makes right

Man you're salty, it's very ambiguous and lots of things are left to question. Just because you interpreted things one way doesn't mean it can't be looked at other ways.

I mean fuck, that's literally what this thread is about. Stay out if you don't want discussion faggot

>I'm sorry but if Marche wants out and can manage it with his own hands, who is to say he's wrong to?
Yep, couldn't expect any lesser justification for a FF villain.

>Conveniently forgetting Marche had the most to lose by going back

Every single white person in the US ever. I never understood the hate against whites until I browsed pol. I'm puertorican and pro Trump but it was only thanks to pol that I understood the hate against whites. They've never had to fight for a single one of their rights.

Doesn't male me suddenly support the anti white hate but I get it.

>It's not an illusion though
Prove it.

...

Can you prove it was an illusion? Cause I remember literally seeing people transform into these beings at the beginning of the game. It's not like everyone fell unconscious and was dreaming all of this.

2dum2liv
>Man you're salty, it's very ambiguous and lots of things are left to question. Just because you interpreted things one way doesn't mean it can't be looked at other ways.
Homie this isn't about interpretation. The game slams you over the head with this. What is ambiguous? Seriously, give me one single question you have and I'll cite the part of the game that you missed that explained it. Don't cry salt instead of providing a point. If you're here to debate, try actually bringing some evidence to the table. Faggot. :3

>They've never had to fight for a single one of their rights.
This is so stupid it hurts, but okay