Apparently Artorias was "present at the fall of New Londo", but when the Chosen Undead is dragged into the past...

Apparently Artorias was "present at the fall of New Londo", but when the Chosen Undead is dragged into the past, he dies in Oolacile.

How the fuck does that work?

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i.imgur.com/QOvorJK.png
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youtube.com/watch?v=M9x_koRZ2bA
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New londo fell before oolacile did.

it doesnt need to be explained you stupid lorefag

The flow of time in Lordran is convoluted.

>nicknamed "The Abysswalker"
>went insane on his first contact with the Abyss

Did they name him that as a joke?

Caring about souls lore is like caring about a prostitue's life story. That's not what you're paying for and if you dig deep, you'll just be disappointed.

Fall of New Londo happens before he dies?

That can't be because they are located in nearly the exact same place:
track3.mixtape.moe/pcvuzu.webm

The Sanctuary became Artorias' grave where Sif guards the Covenant. The Royal Wood became "Darkroot", named as the root of the Abyss' spread. The Township was mostly demolished, but the descent into the Chasm of the Abyss (and Manus) is located geographically in the exact same position as the descent into the Four Kings battle - someone just built stairs down to it.

I don't give a flying fuck about "lore", I just don't get how this story makes sense.

>I don't give a flying fuck about "lore", I just don't get how this story makes sense.
There are dozens of other inconsistencies like this, it really wasn't meant to make sense. Just ignore the story entirely and play the game!

What if Artorias time travelled himself?

Artorius could handle the Abyss until Manus fucked his shit up.

I thought it was because generally all the hollows are static and haven't moved fuck all since they originally hollowed. I thought art orias, on top of being the first madman to try and mess with abyss, also kept walking after he hollowed where everyone else lelfellovercantgetup or stand perfectly still until you approach, reawakening their shit. Or maybe that's all headcanon.

>people are suddenly pretending Dark Souls lore is irrelevant

>I don't give a flying fuck about "lore", I just don't get how this story makes sense.
Most of the lore is game theory tier retarded fan fiction.

This is what I'm leaning towards. Since New Londo is linked to the Abyss, and also that New Londo was active before Gwyn left to link the fire, it seems it went something akin to this:

>New Londo established
>Abyss/Darkwraith influence causes problems
>Gwyn sends Artorias to deal with it
>Artorias establishes a contract (with Kaathe?) so he can traverse the Abyss - which sends him back in time to Oolacile
>Later, Gwyn leaves to link the fire and bequeathes his Lord Soul to the Four Kings
>Later still, New Londo falls
>Centuries later, game begins

What I'm having trouble reconciling is other stuff such as:
>How did Hawkeye Gough and Lord's Blade Ciaran also traverse the abyss? Did they do the same thing?
>Who did Artorias form covenant with? I doubt it was Kaathe, but there's no other figure mentioned. He forms a different covenant in the game, but considering the nature of it, it stands to reason he would have the power to give someone the ability to traverse the Abyss.
>Why is "Oolacile" even a thing? It seems to be its own separate kingdom yet it's located in Lordran. What happens after the events of the DLC? Do the other knights return to Anor Londo?

BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME YOU DUMB SHIT!

>398469082
There's no god damned story. It was just memed into existence. Stop worrying about it.

it doesnt need to make any sense. all you have to do is kill the bosses

Are you okay user?
Like, are you feeling alright?
Does it upset you if you see people talking about things? I'm just wondering about an aspect of a particularly story-based segment of a video game. Is that so wrong to discuss? What exactly do you have a problem with? I'm on NG++ so I've "killed the bosses" multiple times. I think I've earned some time to just chat about the story.

>Caring about souls 'lore' when its all conjecture

Just make up whatever you want and try to tie it to items descriptions as best you can, its fine.

lol
A small oversight when they were writing the DLC, I'm sure.
>when its all conjecture
"No."

>go to New Londo
>kick Darkwraith ass
>"Oh fuck the source of the problem is in Oolacile"
>Head over to Oolacile
>get btfo
this isn't hard

But user...

>Gwyn gave soul shards to the Four Kings BEFORE New Londo fell
>Then he went to link the fire
>Ergo he had sent Artorias to Oolacile/New Londo long before this
>Also Oolacile and New Londo are the same place, separated only by time period

>Artorias went to New Londo on Gwyn's personal orders
Show me the item description

>Oolacile and New Londo are the same place
They are not. Oolacile was Darkroot Garden.

i.imgur.com/ybWYhl3.png
i.imgur.com/QOvorJK.png

The Abyss corrupted him, but he was still the first person to walk in it, and to leave it.

Yes, thank you for providing pictorial evidence that Oolacile aligned exactly with Darkroot, and not New Londo, and therefore that the two places were in fact different. What was the next step of your master plan?
>linking images on an imageboard

Crashing this plane

>The Township was mostly demolished, but the descent into the Chasm of the Abyss (and Manus) is located geographically in the exact same position as the descent into the Four Kings battle - someone just built stairs down to it
it's not though, the Chasm of the Abyss isn't the same place as the actual Abyss in New Londo, and geographically the Chasm is still located in Darkroot Basin/Royal Wood

If you go to the start of the Chasm of the Abyss and look up, you can see a hole from earlier in the Royal Wood

the flow of time itself convoluted i aint gotta explain shit

I think it’s pretty consistent.
No one give Das enough credit desu

>it's not though, the Chasm of the Abyss isn't the same place as the actual Abyss in New Londo
youtube.com/watch?v=oGQ86Aet_7M

Basically what happened was was this:
>Manus creates Abyss
>Abyss floods Oolacile
>Abyss creeps up underneath New Londo (which was right next door)
>4Kings notice it
>4Kings fall to Abyss
>Artorias sent to deal with growing threat of Abyss
>Kills Darkwraiths for a while in New Londo
>Goes to deal with root cause in Oolacile
>Never comes back
>Sealers can't handle Darkwraiths without him, so flood New Londo
>Meanwhile, CU timetravels and kills Manus instead of Artorias
>Artorias gets credit for killing Manus

there's a thread on if you want to sperg out with other autists. the sad truth is there is no logically coherent story to Dark Souls.

there's no sad truth to this at all. The game simply provides world building through the gameplay and item descriptions.

It's a game first, and a story telling device second.

who hurt you?

>the sad truth is there is no logically coherent story to Dark Souls.
What issues are there in the story aside the one itt?

>Artorias is the most popular Dark Souls character aside from Solaire
>All his fanboys ignore the fact that he got bodied in seconds before he ever even saw Manus
Ornstein a best

>almost a full hour later
Stream it motherfucker.

I thought he did attempt to fight Manus before retreating because he was corrupted by the Abyss, isn't that why Sif is down there?

What ended up happening to this guy? Apparently he donated his soul to Gwyndolin to make a fake copy of himself in Anor Londo, and since then was wandering around without it?

I haven't seen a good dark souls lore thread since 2 came out.
Apparently 2 is practically a different story and 3 just makes 1's lore worse.

>I haven't seen a good dark souls lore thread since 2 came out.
Then you were off doing other things. There was a plethora of DSIII lore threads in the last month with minimal shitposting.

Manus crushes his arm and fills his heart with the power of Darkness

das3 lore isn't that bad. it has good info on the age of dark and bookending the cycle

All these years later, is this still the best and most accurate DaS1 lore video?
youtube.com/watch?v=M9x_koRZ2bA

Everyone thinks that Artorias was the one to kill Manus because no one knows that some rando (you) came back in time and did it before leaving again

>Time is convoluted
Ain't gotta explain shit.

The problem with 2 isn't that it's a different story, the problem with 2 is that it's a different story that later tries to tie every little thing to 1 arbitrarily.

3's problem is that it tries to answer too many questions from 1 that should have been left vague, but any of the stuff about the lords of cinder and the church of the deep is totally fine.

Go pay vaatividya $60 and he'll write some fanfic for you

That retcon makes no sense. You can't just abdicate your soul.

>What happens after the events of the DLC?
Remember the crystal fuckers in the Darkroot Basin? These are Seath's creations. Princess Dusk is found in one of Seath's crystals.

inb4 time is convoluted

he's the dragon nameless king/faraam is riding in 3

>You can't just abdicate your soul.
Since when? Both Gwyn and the Furtive Pygmy did it.

Are you jealous because you do it for free?

>the flow of time is convoluted
anyone who says this is either a fucking retard or never played the game
time being convoluted was the explanation for being able to summon other players

>virgin artorias couldn't handle manus the first ape
>chosen chad kills him, manus and an ancient dragon without any lightning just for the lulz
Gods a shit

I believe that takes place before. Dusk wandered into the future through timey wimey light magic, gets caught by Seath then gets dragged back to her time by Manus.

>Dusk wandered into the future through timey wimey light magic
But this is you making some shit up to further your theory. We don't know anything about timey wimey light magic. We only know that Manus can drag people through time. What makes more sense? Dusk being trapped by Seath after the events of Oolacile, or timey wimey light magic bringing Dusk to the present where she THEN gets trapped by Seath?

That is main them of at least 1, gods are useless pieces of shit.

You know the rules.

Easily the best

>"present at the fall of New Londo"
Cannot find anything on this. What do you mean by the fall of New Londo? The sealing of it with water, or when the darkwraiths appeared? Dialogue and item descriptions state Artorias fought darkwraiths, yes. If the latter, it stands to reason Artorias had to fight darkwraiths to reach Kaathe, and then make a covenant with him. I think the problem comes in when we see that there are no darkwraiths in the Chasm of the Abyss, making for the confusion. Seems like an oversight on the team's behalf.

But I do not think New Londo and Oolacile occurred at the same time. That would mean Gwyn gave part of his soul to darked out Four Kings. Kaathe told the Oolacile citizens about Manus, hoping to spread the Abyss and Dark. When that failed, he turned to the Four Kings since the Abyss is underneath New Londo anyway in the DLC and base game.

HOWEVER, I can see that it's been taken for granted that Gwyn sent Artorias to deal with the Abyss, or that Gwyn was even still in power during the events of the DLC. We're all kind of assuming it and have assumed it for years. What if Gwyn had already left and rekindled the flame before the events of the DLC? If we run under that assumption, Oolacile and New Londo CAN have occurred simultaneously. Artorias fights through New Londo darkwraiths to reach Kaathe, then Artorias goes to fight Manus only to succumb to dark and get offed by Chosen Undead. Unless there's some piece of dialogue or description in the DLC stating that Gwyn is still in power, I'd say this works.

With everything gone to shit, he decided to set out and find his bff, but since he had nothing to work on, he traveled throughout the ages looking for Gwyn's firstborn. In this time, he inspired some people, one of them being some guy in drangelic. Eventually in 3 he found gwyn's firstborn and everything after that is a mystery. The only thing that's known for certain is Ornstein isn't the fucking King of the Storm

>But I do not think New Londo and Oolacile occurred at the same time. That would mean Gwyn gave part of his soul to darked out Four Kings.
Why would it mean this?

Because we've all been assuming for years Gwyn was still in power when the DLC happens. It falls apart if you think about it long enough. If Oolacile was the catalyst for Gwyn going down to link the fire for fear of the dark, then New Londo can't have been falling because Gwyn wouldn't give his soul to the Four Kings who are shepherding the Abyss. But let's say Oolacile DIDN'T cause Gwyn to go rekindle the First Flame. That he stayed in power for a while longer to put humans in the Northern Undead Asylum, and that when he felt the fire fading, he split his soul up and gave part of it to the Four Kings. Then that doesn't explain how Artorias fought the darkwraiths.

The only way for Artorias to have fought the darkwraiths, and lose to Manus, is if Gwyn is gone and already given himself to the First Flame. Because that allows the incidents of Oolacile and New Londo to occur simultaneously, concluding with New Londo being flooded after Artorias and Manus are dead.

But CU also kills Artorias

>The only way for Artorias to have fought the darkwraiths, and lose to Manus, is if Gwyn is gone and already given himself to the First Flame.
OK but why is this a problem?

Yes, and? That doesn't change what I posted, it just adds and extra phrase that I forgot to put it
>Sealers can't handle Darkwraiths without him, so flood New Londo
>Meanwhile, CU timetravels and kills Manus instead of Artorias, and also puts Artorias out of his misery
>Artorias gets credit for killing Manus
happy?

New Londo happened first

...

False
Laurentius best NPC and top tier bro
>Be safe, friend.
>Don't you dare go Hollow.

I did not say it was a problem. The subject matter of this thread is how Artorias was able to fight the darkwraiths, as well as fight Manus. It is taken for granted that Oolacile happened first, and New Londo second. Everything was already answered in this post: All I did was add the nugget that Gwyn must've already given himself to the First Flame. There's no problem. But I will also submit the addition that 4Kings fell to Kaathe's influence, along with the Abyss itself.

The problem is people considering Oolacile to be the event that started the abyss based soley on the fact that Manus is named the father of the Abyss rather than an even that happened after.

>Attack him
>"W-wait friend!"

But Manus DID create The Abyss. At least, he created The Abyss that consumed Oolacile and New Londo (and is apparently still around in Londor?). Other people who's humanity went wild independently created other Abysses, like the one in TRC, but Manus was the source of the Oolacile Abyss.

Pyromancers are always bros.

>It is I, Laurentius! I have no bone to pick with you!

also
>tfw find him in Blighttown Swamp
I-I'm sorry my friend, I didn't realize this would happen or I never would have told you

The PC is the true abyss walker. They just believe that Artorias was the one.

Ornstein would've been bodied by Manus and Artorias.
There's a reason why you fight him after Ornstein and Smough in the late game. Because he's the toughest of the 4 knights.

i gotchu

He was killed by Chosen Undead in Anor Londo. You actually take the sequels seriously when Miyazaki never planned for a sequel?

FACT: Quelana is best witch
You will NEVER EVER be able to restore her smile and sense of optimism

Technically speaking Manus is the father of all Abysses if Dark Souls 3 didn't retconn him from possibly being the fertive pygmy. My point is people think that the experiment in Oolacile was the exact moment that all consuming black fog was released and not just another attempt by Kaathe to create more abyss.

I'm one to believe that whenever humanity is accumulated in great quantities in a single area an abyss creeps over. New Londo went dark when the 4 kings and the darkwraiths were taught how to siphon humanity from people and this is what seemed to have brought New Londo into the abyss. In the case of Manus, the being's soul was already a big chunk of humanity, big enough to create an abyss in its own right.

they actually thought Artorias beat the abyss, when it actually was the chosen undead.

Not exactly. You only get an Abyss when you start fucking with a person's humanity. Explicitly, it's humanity "driven wild," but you have to provoke it to turn it wild. It doesn't turn wild on its own. The Oolacile sorcerers resurrected Manus from the dead and were doing all sorts of weird shit to him (which blew up in their faces). The sorcerers in TRC were doing all sorts of weird experiments with humanity to make Abyssal Embers (which blew up in their faces).

If you get a large collection of humanity together that ISN'T wild (aka isn't Abyssal), then you get the Deep. Which isn't the Abyss, something that DaS3 makes very clear. In fact, the ONE AND ONLY REASON the Deep exists in DaS3 in the first place, is to clarify that humanity/The Dark != the Abyss. They aren't one and the same, Darkness is not inherently, irrevocably Abyssal. You have to provoke the creation of the Abyss with sorcery. It's artificial.

So then Kaathe really is the good guy after all been saying it for years.

Yes, yes, trust in Kaathe. Kaathe knows what's best...

There is nothing that implies the dark wraiths or the 4 kings had their humanity driven wild. The 4 kings are among the most sane looking things in the game.

>There is nothing to suggest that the Darkwraiths and 4Kings haven't had their humanity driven wild and haven't become weird Abyss monsters
Yeah except the fact that th3 4Kings have got trees growing out of their body like they're chaos monsters and the fact that the Darkwraiths have literal skulls for faces, you giant fucking goofball

>There is nothing that implies the dark wraiths or the 4 kings had their humanity driven wild
Darkwraiths trying to rob you for your humanity is pretty wild, wouldn't you say?
The humans fucked with Manus, the humans stole humanity from other humans (New Londo).
Kaathe: They failed me, every last one of them. They were strong, but saw not the truth... I am certain that you will prove different.
Gough: I suspect thou hast taken a gander at it,
But the Dark of the Abyss, which swallowed poor Artorias, threatens to devour our entire land of Oolacile.
It seems that this dire fate is unavoidable.
But, seduced by a Dark serpent or no,
They awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad.
…One's demise is always one's own making.
Marvelous Chester: Believe it or not…
Oolacile has brought the Abyss upon itself.
Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man, and incited his ornery wrath.
What could they have been thinking?

>FACT: Quelana is best witch
Oops. that's an opinion

>yandere rapist
>best

>ywn go adventuring through Lordran with your bro Laurentius, blowing shit up with pyromancy and then getting comfy every night at a bonfire and just talking bullshit with each other
Life is suffering

>Trees growing out of there bodies
Cut content undead king Jar-El shows that as normal being their armor had a golden feather motif.

What you're seeing is their armor that has been warped because they have ascended into a shadow-like form. It isn't the same shit you see with Manus with the brown growths and eye-ball tumors.

>Dark Wraiths have skulls for faces!
They're also the best swordsmen in the game and the not flailing retards like bloat-heads. Humanity clearly kept them from drowning, more humanity means closer to godhood.

>my argument is legit because CUT CONTENT shows that...
stopped reading there. cut content is noncanon.

That doesn't mean your interpretation of their armor means they're the same type of being as Manus.

I'd rather roll around in the grass with Rhea.
>more humanity means closer to godhood.
Just need to rob other people of their humanity, not wild at all. Not malicious.

>totally normal human bean
>the huge cloud of bullshit growing out of my left arm (that I can use to soulsuck you) is just a birth defect!
the absolute state of (you)

It's called being more human than human.