I got questions, so obviously spoilers galore. Seriously...

I got questions, so obviously spoilers galore. Seriously. Don't be like me and look at them when you're all curious or whatever. So yeah, Ending E spoilers hereafter.

Why was 9S even allowed to learn as much as he did if his model was to be killed for doing so? Why can't Command program a new directive; why does it *have* to be about protecting humans, if they're just obtaining combat data? WHY is it considered 'cruel' to give these androids basic code, like machines,
when it's far crueler to allow them to cry and fee emotions, etc?

Are Adam + Eve there to say that christianity is the most evolved form of philosophy? or that it just leads to hate? Why even mention that androids aren't allowed emotions?

>Why was 9S even allowed to learn as much as he did if his model was to be killed for doing so
He's too smart, he just figures it out on his own.
They need smart people for combat, but they can't keep smart people away from information.
>Why can't Command program a new directive; why does it *have* to be about protecting humans
They can program YoRHa androids with whatever they want, but they can't do shit about all the other androids (i.e. the vast majority).
>WHY is it considered 'cruel' to give these androids basic code, like machines,
when it's far crueler to allow them to cry and fee emotions, etc?
But it's not considered cruel by them, because they use machine-based cores rather than proper android AI cores.
Also because they want to be human-like. People who create androids still want their androids to be human-like rather than machine-like.
>Why even mention that androids aren't allowed emotions?
The whole "emotions are prohibited" thing is just from command.

don't poke holes in the pseudo philosophy just enjoy the butts and the happy ending and move on

>They need smart people for combat, but they can't keep smart people away from information.
B/E models are designed to eliminate S models, but are already way better in combat than S models. Just seems weird

>but they can't do shit about all the other androids (i.e. the vast majority).
All droids except the Resistance on Earth during the game are androids, right? Maybe it's just me, but it feels like there are 100x more YoRHa than Resistance

>rather than proper android AI cores.
Hmm, I guess I haven't seen what even constitutes as "proper android AI" in this game, if everyone is based off machines.

>just from command.
alright, it's just a thing.

I really enjoyed the game and it's use of the medium to tell its story; just had these questions stick with me for over a couple days

>B/E models are designed to eliminate S models, but are already way better in combat than S models. Just seems weird
Because S models are meant for intelligence gathering. That's also part of why B/E models are so good at combat, because they get information from Scanner models.
>All droids except the Resistance on Earth during the game are androids, right?
Yes.
>Maybe it's just me, but it feels like there are 100x more YoRHa than Resistance
Nope, the resistance androids have far greater numbers. YoRHa is relatively recent in the grand scheme of things, whereas androids in general have been a thing since 2xxx (don't remember exactly when).
>Hmm, I guess I haven't seen what even constitutes as "proper android AI" in this game, if everyone is based off machines.
Only YoRHa androids are based off machines.
The others existed since long before aliens attacked. They have an entirely different type of AI, one presumably made by real humans (although probably evolved over the years).

>The others existed since long before aliens attacked

Ahh, okay. For some reason I just kept equating Resistance as splinter groups from Yorha or something to that affect -- a la Pascal's village -- like they just refused to be backed up to Bunker like the rest (one of the first ppl you talk to talks about his leg)

>Because S models are meant for intelligence gathering. That's also part of why B/E models are so good at combat, because they get information from Scanner models.
So, that's why it goes weird when 9S decides to just upload 2B's memory at the beginning? It just really fucks with her programming? Obvious follow up question is why not just override him and force uploads, but I don't think it's ever said that androids can do that without physically contacting them

This is one of the 2 games I have 100% on Steam. I really think 9S learning the truth was just for shock value for the player and nothing more. Going more into it I believe it just an oversight on the devs.

Adam and Eve didn't understand a lot of things. They just kept learning more and more about the world thinking they were nothing short of gods.

>So, that's why it goes weird when 9S decides to just upload 2B's memory at the beginning
Because he has feelings for her.
It's kind of fucked up actually, in some of the side materials, even when he gets the chance to kill her in self defense, he lets her kill him instead because he knows that if he somehow manages to overcome being constantly killed, he won't get to see her any more.
If he did manage to find the truth and then back up, they'd probably just roll his backup data to back to the previous backup anyway.

Good thread

Maybe I'm forgetting at the moment, but why did Commander let him have the classified docs? Was she just wanting to break until the virus took over?

The Commander had no idea about the virus. I think her plan was to exploit his trust in 2B. If he just has suspicions, he'll probably keep them to himself for a while. If he outright knows he'll probably share the information with 2B (which nearly happens during the route B credits).

there's also a recital that takes place after ending E 2b wakes up and finds 9s dead, so she tries to revive him, she does but she is close to death, and then it ends with her hugging him and crying while he hugs back

9S is a high-end model the degrees of which has never been seen before. Automata is my GOTY, and honestly one of the best I have ever played, but I hate how a lot of relevant information is left in the forms of books and other shit. The extent of 9S' prowess is such that he teaches himself how to wield weapons; Scanners should be unable to employ them.
And yeah, as others have said, he repeatedly found out aspects of "the truth," and 2B had to kill him every time. I don't think the Commander could actually stop the production of his model, but it is clear enough that she welcomes death if it means being unfettered from her role as a puppet.

I don't quite understand your question about the new directive. Was it something you missed? YoRHa is just a figurehead, and the Commander is no less of a puppet than the other units are. YoRHa models were begotten from machine components because it seemed "cruel" to build them as Resistance androids, or like the Devola/Popola models. They were all build by androids. Androids from the Gestalt project. Their prime directive was to make sure the human race would survive the WCS. Seeing how this didn't work because the Original Gestalt relapsed, they probably felt the need to destroy machines in order to atone for this sin. As the Commander said, they needed a God to die for, and humans fit the bill perfectly. Or maybe they just couldn't let go of their love for humanity. Who knows?

Androids experience human-like emotions because it makes them better combatants. You learn this when Jackass creates her E-Drug. The "emotions are prohibited" thing, at least thematically, is sort of 2B's mantra because of her situation with 9S. And it overall makes sense that you'd want your soldiers to be as stoic as possible, especially considering they are literally dispensable and can be rebuild.

Part 1

also forgot to mention the recital is canon since yoko taro wrote the script and the VAs preformed it

this is correct, 2deep4u is always the result of someone with a curious mind but no formal training making up a bunch of stupid shit

and the game itself is just the standard devil may cry trash, I dont understand how this sort of thing gets a green light

its all presentation and no game whatsoever

>literally just finished ending E 5 minutes ago
Is it possible to finish the credits without getting anyone's help? I got to the bullet sponge Square Enix's after a couple deaths, but but couldn't get any further before being rescued. If it's truly impossible, that's some of the most creative DRM I've seen for a game ever.
>tfw 043 tells you that you can rescue someone if you delete all your data
>tfw I realize all those people that helped me gave up their data too
>tfw I repaid their kindness
>tfw I went straight to ending E after doing C/D by accident so I can't go back and try to get all the other endings first
Guess I'll have to come back later and do a full replay :^)

Also, I really like that you literally have to fight the dev team to get the happy ending.
GOTY.

>Is it possible to finish the credits without getting anyone's help?
Yeah, there are some youtube vids you could watch for hints.

>christianity is the most evolved form of philosophy

Lel. Not by a long shot, I don't think.

I think their involvement in the plot is supposed to mirror humanity' expulsion from Eden, from the presence of God, and from Eternal Life. Their deaths were the catalysts that brought about the machines' perennial existence in the form of the Network/Terminal Alpha and Terminal Beta. They literally brought about the downfall of the machines' equivalent of Eden.

And the reason why I think Adam was so infatuated with humanity, despite recognizing them as inferior creatures both mentally and physically, was because they were interesting. More interesting than the machines' hivemind and their imitation of human behavior without really understanding it. Perhaps this was the Network manifesting a genuine interest in humanity after making so many machines imitate humanity/androids just so they could have an enemy to fight. In any case, Adam believed that humanity's defining trait was hatred, and when he dies, he makes Eve a higher humanity than he ever did, under his own definition. Whether this was an act of brethren love or otherwise, I do not know.

>They were all build by androids. Androids from the Gestalt project. Their prime directive was to make sure the human race would survive the WCS. Seeing how this didn't work because the Original Gestalt relapsed, they probably felt the need to destroy machines in order to atone for this sin. As the Commander said, they needed a God to die for, and humans fit the bill perfectly.


That's actually a great point I didn't fully consider. It's akin to how the pods start gaining their own 'will' -- to do everything they can to accomplish their goals (protecting those they're assigned to). I guess my original thought was why not make the androids just want to fight for, say, the Bunker, not humans? But you reminded me of the God thing, where machines might actually take us as them because we created them and likely have Asimov type rules programmed within them

Apparently it's doable. There's youtube videos. I think it's Drakengaard 1+3 that also have unbelievably hard endings.

>Also, I really like that you literally have to fight the dev team to get the happy ending.
When I heard that Square's CEO was a DLC boss, I laughed, but it makes 100% sense after seeing the ending

What are some good games, senpai?

Ah, okay. I was amused by the rescue messages that would say something like "rely on your own strength" because clearly completing the credits solo either requires perfect mastery of the game's system or external knowledge of what to do.

On a side note, is the library in the tower meant to be a reference to NieR? The side rooms felt like they belonged in another game. For some reason I have a feeling that Devola/Popola had something to do with the room with the bookshelf/desk, but maybe I'm just talking out of my foggy-ass memory of seeing my cousin play it for a bit back whenever it came out. I should really go and play NieR, but I don't have any consoles anymore

I asked that just because they were the most physically evolved machines. That's a good point that they were the downfall though. Ending E talks about how history can, but not necessarily will, repeat itself, so having Adam+Eve being the catalysts of the expulsion is a pretty cool nod, even if it's not history, per se.

>I dont understand how this sort of thing gets a green light

I think I heard that the Dragon Quest guy really loves Yoko Taro's visions and makes his games greenlit, to Square's chagrin.

>2deep4u is always the result of someone with a curious mind but no formal training making up a bunch of stupid shit
It's good that this game tackles that exact subject dozens of times head on

>Why was 9S even allowed to learn as much as he did if his model was to be killed for doing so
He's a ridiculous high-end model.
Commander gave him info because she was too guilt-ridden to continue killing him.
Nobody can truly "program" YoRHa androids, they operate on literal black boxes from alien lifeforms and Command most likely doesn't even know the full extent of the plan as it was a personal initiative of the highest level executive, weapon development director Zinnia, and his plan got hijacked by a prototype number 9.

Nobody will get the combat data as well, all info about the YoRHa project is meant for destruction, it's just the Backdoor activated when YoRHa itself gathered enough data for a new generation of models inside the Bunker itself.
>WHY is it considered 'cruel' to give these androids basic code
Because androids are a massive bigots. It's not cruel if we're using the enemy tech even if resulting androids will end up being far more humanlike.

Go play the original or at least watch an LP.

This post is all I need to know that you're a fucking idiot, which is a trait many people that didn't like Automata share.

And not because the game was 2deep4u or anything, but because you all lack basic communication abilities and have no fucking knowledge of argumentation. It's also funny that most tend to be PC shitters that complained the Factory level was too hard, and don't ever play around with Pod Programs and Chips, much less animation cancelling.

>the Backdoor activated when YoRHa itself gathered enough data for a new generation of models
The timing is far too perfect for that to be the actual cause IMO. I think the backdoor was only ever supposed to open when someone purposely opens it, and I wouldn't be surprised if Number 9 was confident/arrogant enough to hinge his plan on a future 9 unit doing just that.

>have to read/watch side materials to get more understanding
fucking why, just slap that shit VN style on the Resistance Camp console

>The timing is far too perfect for that to be the actual cause IMO.
No. Pods were the ones responsible for this and they go through every bit of info inside the Bunker.

>All droids except the Resistance on Earth during the game are androids, right? Maybe it's just me, but it feels like there are 100x more YoRHa than Resistance

There's tons of androids on Earth but you only see a few of them in the area which the game takes place, mostly around the resistance camp, and the aircraft carrier that was headed in was also full of androids.
Remember that the entire region was controlled by machines at the start of the game, it was the first mission you do that allows YorHa and the androids to get a foothold in the area.
Also The androids on Earth were created by humans before they went extinct,
but YoRHa models were created by androids after that and are made with repurposed machine cores. YoRHa are not considered to be real androids, but more thought of as tools or equipment. That's why they only call each other by their model number and are never given proper names.

Literally just beat ending A 10 minutes ago was pretty nice, cant wait to jump into the other playthroughs, also quick question when I start a new route will it be ng+ kind of deal or is it just starting from square one again?

Your next playthrough is sort of the same, but not really. Just jump in and let it happen.

You keep all your gear, items, and levels so it's much easier to go through the second time. Route B has it's own sidequests that make it distinct from A though and foreshadow certain things

>will it be ng+ kind of deal
Yes.
A save file will never regress in progress.
After you finish E you unlock chapter select, but even if you use that you still have all your stuff.