Sonic doesn't work in 3D

>Sonic doesn't work in 3D

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Which one is better? Sonic Utopia or Green Hill Paradise?

People should message/tweet about this game about how to reinvent 3D sonic

>Sonic Utopia

>Sonic Xtreme did

I genuinely do not understand you guys. You say Sonic doesn't work in 3D, then Sonic Team starts making the games more 2D and you complain that they don't know how to make Sonic work in 2D either.

Level design of GHP is great but i just prefer the movement system of utopia. Something in between would be perfect

I meant message sonic team specifically

Both are tech demos that are only good for fucking around in and dreaming of what a full game would be like.
GHP is probably better since there's more game too it. Utopia is really empty compared to it even though the potential is there.

Sonic Team is full of hacks. Maybe if they did something right we wouldn't keep having these threads.

Sonic doesnt work that well in 3d with only a few fan games translating it somewhat well

Sonic works very well in 2D but Sonic Team is shit and the major problem why 3D games suck more than they need to

It doesn't, Utopia is just a bunch of dead space

Because they fucking don't know either one, how is this hard to understand? They started on something interesting with Unleashed, but fucked up in nearly all subsequent games. They haven't made a good 2D Sonic in ages, either.

Sonic would be a good as a racing game focusing on executing interesting movement mechanics and doing combos like tony hawk.

What is Utopia even supposed to be? I thought it was some sort of tech demo that would eventually turn into a full game, but I still haven't seen any updates on that.

The main issue with 3D Sonic is just level design.

what a qt

Because it's true. Sonic mania was great whereas the 2D levels in forces were dogshit.

Sonic team just fucking sucks

Sonic Robo Blast 2

You're right that's what it's supposed to be.
The guy working on it is just taking a while.

SLOPES
W
H
E
N

Utopia is a better take on true classic gameplay in 3D. GHP is what a perfect Sonic Adventure 3 would play like.

you cunt, I am here for M11 and I thought that the new demo was finally out
GHP has ass controls and is more concerned in impementing concept people have discussed without polishing them. Aso the more full level design is quite shite, but people droll over it because super and hyper sonic are in there.
Utopia has way better controls, and the level design is generally great...until you fall off the "paths" the game lays down for you and you end up in a flat space trying to get back on the groove.
That's why I suggest sticking to either side of the level, since there is less empty space. and show how a proper level could look like and hopefully lange&murasaki will deliver soon™

This said I replay Utopia every now and then, since it works like the classic and let you discover a new thing every session, despite being short, while I didn't touch GHP in a while

2.2 is gonna be so good.

Fucking this.

>Wow look how cool I can make sonic control in open space
>How will I make level design work with this? Who cares gotta go fast lol

damn, SRB2 looks like THAT?!

don't get fooled, it plays like literal garbage

Not yet, but it will when 2.2 comes out. Hopefully in a few months.

Sonic World is better.

Level design is nothing without proper physics to facilitate tight and engaging gameplay. Otherwise it's just a series of scripted events. They're both equally important. Sonic Team's problem is simply that they put a premium on spectacle to hide the fact that the actual gameplay is pretty shallow and doesn't offer much other than cheap "one and done" thrills. Whether or not this is due to incompetence, or just sheer laziness and banking on brand recognition, is the real question. Personally, I think it's a little of both.

Furthermore, Iizuka and his ilk have so thoroughly checked out from Sonic in general that it's a little depressing to see. They're little more than puppets for higher ups at Sega. Don't think for a second that Iizuka "approved" Mania because he gives a shit. He just wanted to take credit for it if it succeeded. Also, you don't put your reputation on the line for something you're "unsure" of, as he later stated. Clearly there's either a mistranslation here or someone's spouting PR bullshit.

Anyway, Sonic Team is a dead husk of what it once was. Any remaining members from the good old days have long since stopped giving a shit and the newcomers most likely give an equal amount of shit. If Sega of Japan wasn't so intensely retarded they'd just hand the reigns over to competent fans who know what they're doing to give 3D Sonic a "Mania" caliber game. Sadly, you're better off waiting for Utopia to actually produce results or wait for someone to take what Utopia presents and run with it via another project. Either way it doesn't matter, because once the idea is out there it's only a matter of time before a fan actually finishes a project. The same thing happened with 2D Sonic fangames. People were saying fans would never finish a project and eventually after many false starts we got Mania. So who fucking knows what'll happen in the future? If anything truly good happens to 3D Sonic, it's sure as hell not coming from current Sonic Team.

It will.

Man I can easy see this work with the MK64 formula.
The zone would be this huge playground, but each act would be like a star.

You could have to go to point A to point B with checkpoints to follow to keep you going where you need to.

...

?

Which fans could reasonably put together a 3D Sonic game under SEGAs leadership?

Utopia has a garbage camera and shit tier level design.

>have to replay a bad stage 5 times just to unlock all the other levels
no thanks

That's several stages in Shadow the Hedgehog.

>Camera pans down when moving fast, so you can't see anything in front of you
>Camera doesn't pan down when jumping off of an enemy, so you can't see where you're going to land until you're right about to land
Awful. Just awful.

>The zone would be this huge playground, but each act would be like a star.
no

Is there anything new about this? If they managed to actually make a coherent level it'd probably shut down a lot of the naysayers but it's been so long I'm wondering if it's dead.

it looks a lot worse than it plays. i thought it looked alright when watching a video. but playing it was an absolute joy and by far the most fun ive ever had with a 3d sonic including fanmade

It is difficult to do so.

Where can I download this Doom wad?

srb2.org

It's not really just a wad. It's been so heavily modified that a lot of the original DooM is barely there any more.

The worst part is that they are willing to call their games sloppy but won't recognize themselves having made mistakes.
Also some other user pointed out in another thread that both CD and Mania were only allowed as advertisements for Sonic 4 and Forces. Never because they would be good products of their own.
Calling Sonic Team hacks is putting it lightly.

srb2.org/download/

Keep in mind that slopes aren't implemented yet in the current release, but there's a bunch of community maps that have them.

At the moment? Nobody. Taxman and Stealth(and the Sonic romhacking community in general) have spent over a decade autistically combing through every bit of the classic games' code and replicating it for fangames, and even when they got hired by Sega, they had to make three ports before they got the chance to make their own game(where the remastered levels make up over 50% of its content) and even then, they were paired with an actual game dev studio, PagodaWest. 3D is a completely different ballpark, and nobody in the 3D fangaming scene has proven themselves to be capable of working well in a professional environment.

user, you have full mouselook in this game; I was controlling it "cinematically" since I knew what I was doing. You can also download and try for yourself, or are you one of those fags that judge games from let's plays?
they said they are going for more linear stages with several interlacing paths.
We have to wait and see how the forst real zone plays out

In Shadow the Hedgehog, you entered different stages by completing certain missions, but you always had to take through the same route every time. This concept, however, encourages exploration by not forcing alternate paths to converge at one single goal.

That's just an example. There could be as many exits as you'd want. Additionally, you wouldn't be required to play every stage to get the final ending. They'd all be optional.

when the fuck is a new demo coming out wtf lange you autistic hack

But instead of killing every enemy in the stages you just explore the level for alternate paths and exits.

Sounds good to me. But I'd make it like Megaman and connect multiple levels and let you go through them any order you wanted with Eggman's base unlocking after beating most of them. To avoid what was getting at.

if you use a mouse as the camera it plays just fine.

youtube.com/watch?v=RYBTMs7x41I
Forgot to post the video where they acknowledge their games being sloppy boost to win garbage

I was thinking of something like that.
Take green hill from Utopia.

-Each act starts from a different point.
-you have checkpoints to validate until you reach the goal but how you reach those checkpoint is up to you so you can still takes different paths with various bonus and collectibles. ( the dev could change the layout a bit for each act ( like in MK64 )
-the Zone could serve as a hub you can roam until you clear all the acts, then you proceed to the next zone.
-You could have to go to the starting point of each act yourself.
-Each act gives you a clue to an old mechanism hidden somewhere in the zone, once all mechanism have been activated, it opens the path to the emerald challenge.

That's the point, Taxman and Stealth act...well...like professionals. The only 3D Sonic fangame maker that has the skill and the maturity to represent SEGA is GHPAnon.
After him the only other remotely possible candidate would be LakeFepard, and even he stated that he has no interest in making a game he can't direct. I only even consider him usable because he probably could make a game that would be liked by a good portion of the Sonic fanbase.

Lange has the talent, but would pretty much be unusable due to his stubbornness and strict vision about what Sonic should be. While he could make a decently liked game, he would probably get insane diminishing returns on sequels while potentially getting SEGA bad PR.

For most stages, but there are a handful of stages like Glyphic Canyon and Air Fleet that split the missions into separate paths.

Well, I had this idea of a railroad sidequest that would fix this issue. Each stage has a mini hub(a save point, if you will) you'd place a marker in that hub, and the stages will become connected. That way, if you were replaying the game, you could just skip certain stages.

>Lange has the talent, but would pretty much be unusable due to his stubbornness and strict vision about what Sonic should be
I think he would accept compromises on what sonic should be if he could inject is core vision into an official game. In general, he could also justify a classic direction by stating that's a 3d classic dreamcast sonic game like mania is an "alternate reality" saturn game.
The main problem is that for now he has not enough experience and no way to pitch ideas to SEGA like taxman and stealth could
those autismo gamecrafting threads are the best

I don't think SEGA would accept that and I think that move itself is controversial.

Mania worked because the Saturn didn't have a mainline Sonic game, but the Dreamcast did.

C'mon, I'm sure this would work Very well for Utopia

>I don't understand you guys, you don't like it when Sonic Team makes shitty Sonic games, even though they made them 2D
A shitty game is a shitty game, regardless of what dimension it's in.

you might be right. It still would need to be classic stylized, because that's the kind of gameplay lange would be able to deliver. At that point I would still keep out a modern game for the newer fans.

If you want an external dev for a modern game, the fanbase doesn't simply have anyone of that caliber. Only the classic fanbase has the drive to work on "whole" polished fangames, modern fans can mod generations just fine, but that sadly won't get them under the radar so easily. Not that the only real decent shit they did was planting unleashed day stages into generation pc.
I wasn't insulting, I really enjoy discussing game mechanins, feels refreshing from the usual shitposting

I am not talking gameplay at all, I am saying I think Lange would refuse to make a game with Modern Sonic.

I know, but I am saying it would actually make sense. If we are keeping the utopia backbone modern fans will not enjoy as much as a modern boost game and classic fans won't be fully pleased too. If they are picking up lange it would have to be for a classic 3d sonic game because classic and modern are not only art direction but two different gameplay styles. That said, I think that there would be space for such project given the fact that classic sonic is a sort of separate entity now and this would be more appealing than shoving him into a modern game again.
If you are searching for a "fan dev" for modern sonic there are simply not many of them.
Even a game from the GHPAnon wouldn't be well received by the modern sonic fanbase, desu. A properly done (read: generation level design and polish) boost game with a story between adventure and unleashed would be a better idea

Sonic Team should hire the Utopia guys and have the Sonic Mania guys on board with the Utopia guys.

After Forces, 3D Sonic is about as far down into the shitter as it can get.

Sonic Mania was a fucking godsend.

It would introduce problems for reasons seen above.

It works, but i can't say it is an ideal solution for Sonic as it wasn't built to have this split and this split itself is confusing.

I'd rather not have it myself and set sonic on an intermediate design, pic related but ignore the shitty "radical" pose, but it has been building up in the fanbase for years and SEGA has made it official it with the last installments. And that's even without counting the adventure fanbase that's just stuck in between

where is my pic gookmoot

You mean something like this?

Sonic Utopia is amazing it had me looking up places wondering how to get there, trying to combine paths like in the megadrive but in 3d. It has many paths and they figured out how to fast in 3d, make sonic smaller (but respecting the speed) and the enemies bigger and the paths wider so the high speed is not a handicap. Make the levels grow in all directions and make the be gigantic crazy skateparks with many paths interwoven. If you can't see why sonic utopia is as close as we can get to actual 3d sonic is because you can't remember 2d sonic.

>you have full mouselook in this game
That's even fucking worse. If I'm running fast and need to jump at any time, when would I ever be able to change the camera angle with my mouse? Camera controls need to be complimented by intelligent camera reorientation in-game.

The WebM you just posted is just as bad ad the last one and only amplifies the problems with the camera. When going fast, the camera needs to stay parallel with the X and Z axes as much as possible. When falling from a great height, the camera needs to stay as perpendicular to the ground as possible. Being able to see where you're going at all times is a fucking necessity in platformers, especially ones like Sonic where you can go fast.

Fangame Tiers:
Sonic World (God tier)
Sonic Souls (Meh tier)
Srb2 (Shit Tier)
Sonic Utopia (Tech Demo Tier)
Ghz Paradise (Tech Demo Tier)

Modern Sonic has been moving more and more to looking like classic Sonic. That design looks less like Classic Sonic than Modern Sonic did in Forces.

Wow I can't believe someone else here likes Sonic World.

seizure inducing design

>Game Like This
>Super Mario Odyssey Formula of Multiple Kingdoms, but instead of Kingdoms we have Zones

It would be the best 3D sonic game to ever live.

>"3D Sonic games are sh..."

>SRB2
>shit

You take that back.

It was 1.5 games worth of shit and only half a game that was good. It's a pretty poor example if you ask me.

It's pretty shit

Sonic R is looking better these days.

So basically a refined Sonic Adventure without forcing multiple gameplay styles?

...You use the mouse to jump and roll. Have you seriously been complaining this entire time about a game you've never played?

why does TGT has some of the best reaction images?

>You say Sonic doesn't work in 3D
Debatable, yes.
>then Sonic Team starts making the games more 2D and you complain that they don't know how to make Sonic work in 2D either.
But this is a damn fact. The 2D classic levels in Generations were okay, on the merit of most of their layouts were copied from the Genesis games. Moderns 2D gameplay has always been this atrocious, cheap Donkey Kong style platforming that has no place in a Sonic game.

I wonder how Sonic Adventure would play with 2D stages.

The beauty about utopia's controls is you can actually control Sonic like you would a car in a racing game if you want. Left stick handles his speed and right stick handles the camera AND Sonic's handling. At high speeds it's pretty much vital and feels fantastic to make precision turns.

I don't fuck with mouselook myself because they nailed the controller support for this.

Just play Generations Speed Highway

I don't mean level design, I mean if you made 2D levels in Sonic Adventure would it control well.

I think it would, not like the classic titles, but better than Classic in Generations.

Yeah pretty much.
Gorgeous cell shaded graphics and intelligent zone design with areas to go fast and puzzles to solve, as well as no 2.5D classic sonic platforming sections. Pure 3D speed, puzzle, action and platforming.

Modern Sonic looks the same way he did in Unleashed
Just shut the fuck up

Play Sonic 4

Yea man, its pretty great. What i like about it is the accessibility to create community content easier.

>cel shaded
Fuck off

They'd have to lock movment to only being left or right otherwise you'd keep walking at an angle and catching on the back or foreground. The physics in SA1 could totally support good levels in 2d though. Just maybe not loops.

Sonic 4 is nothing like Sonic Adventure in 2D.

There are a few things I like that SEGA should learn from this when building a future Adventure styled game.
A. Your turning radius becomes gradually smaller as you build up speed.
B. You keep the drift.
C. You keep the stomp.

I actually think Sonic and friends control great in this game minus the overly lenient homing attacks. It is too bad the engine is ass.

>Sonic 4 is nothing like Sonic Adventure in 2D.
It literally is exactly like Sonic Adventure in 2D. The physics are floaty as hell just like in Adventure 1.

Just played it
Really fun, probably would be better than any other 3D Sonic
The only thing is you reach high speeds WAY too fucking quickly. Sonic is supposed to start slow and gain momentum, not just fucking jet right away.

Maybe if we are talking episode 2 but episode 1 has problems that Sonic Adventure doesn't have.

A. Sonic builds up speed running down hill, faster if he is rolling.
B. Sonic does not immediately stop in the air after building up momentum if you didn't hold a direction.
C. Rolling off an incline or hitting a booster doesn't cause you to uncurl.
D. Sonic won't get stuck in place if you try to run up an incline that is too steep for your speed.