Why do people hate plain evil characters even when there is a good, logical reason why they are plain evil?

Why do people hate plain evil characters even when there is a good, logical reason why they are plain evil?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=7ccrOAN6nNI
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

There are a lot of people, with different tastes.

well that's your opinion

>DUDE I'M A TREE LMAO
epic
truly epic

People think depth is inherently a good thing.
The execution is just as important.

*voids your coupons*

Its fucking amerifats, cucks forced by cops to be good so hard, they cant understands any evil now.
Only evil thing they can get is mass shootings.

...

I like plain evil characters.

But who is this guy? He looks cool and I've never been that interested in FF.

>globeleza
deepest lore?

ExDeath from FF5

I like them as long as they're written well. Not every villain has to be sympathetic or a dindu

Exdeath doesn't have a reason, though. He's just a run-of-the mill corrupted guy.

Lettuce Start

It would explain so much

this. I hated naruto for doing this shit

...

Exdeath. He's a sentient tree that had one too many evil spirits stuffed inside. He is unapolagetically evil, has gilgamesh as a henchman and lives in a castle made out of all the people he killed
He's also one of the hardest final bosses in the series, so I respect him for that

He's the souls of the dead that have formed into an efilistic eldritch abomination knight that becomes obsessed with uniting mankind with the void.

Golbez 2.0

TUUUUUURTLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>DUDE every villain has to be a morally gray guy
T. Same popcorn munchers who like shitty DC films

It's plain evil that this woman is not riding my little white pecker right now

Is Kefka plain evil or just realistic?

He's a pissed off tree. Retarded humans put all their dumb shit in him and he became powerful and angry and turned into a knight. He wants to end everything, including himself

He's just crazy as fuck.

He's intelligent, nihilistic and has a wicked sense of humor

mentally insane because something went wrong when they turned him into a Magitech Knight

he just wanted to remake the planet into its original form

i'd almost argue Caius from 13-2 isn't evil either, there is a huge speech before the last boss where he explains his points, and hes kinda right. (gods make him immortal to protect yuel, yuel always dies...slowly loss of sanity.)

except there is a hidden scene with him and lumina...

I despise Capshit like any other normal person but having morally grey characters is a good thing the problem is execution. Having nothing but black and white “heroes are good and the villains are evil” is boring

I like that, that's pretty cool. His design is great too.

I haven't played the other ones (except Tactics I think) but maybe I'll check out FF5.

I mean poisoning a river to end a war quicker seems logical though. The only thing crazy about him is his looks really.

>hardest final boss
7 turns with !GP Toss, don't even need any healing
Ultimecia was much bigger pain in the ass

Kefka is dat boi, but he is insane.

I think 5 is the best FF to be honest. Best gameplay and a story that isn't too gloomy. The class system in it is very similar to tactics, actually

GP Toss says hi.

Black, white, grey. There can be good and bad characters in all these spectrums, all that matters is the execution

he's not particularly deep or complex, but man is he a great bad guy

>open disk tray
>selphie limit
>skip, skip, skip, skip...
>"the end"
or
>lionheart, lionheart, lionheart
not impressed tb.h

LR last boss is harder. (and that said I literally parried hypernova and dancing mad)

it is definitely an overlooked FF game, although ExDeath is used really well in FFXIV

I thought ExDeath was formed by ancients being stupid and banishing all their evil into the same holy tree. Like that wasn't going to blow up in their faces.

we need more assholes as villain not those shitty gay antagonist with good intentions

Plain evil doesn't exist. It's simplistic, and that's boring. Not everything needs to be nuanced, but this level of black and white thinking is not even entertaining.
If you want this type of unthinking badguy, just go with some force of nature type shit, like a natural disaster or the plague.

>Overlooked

4-7 are the favorites among hardcore fans, with 4, 7 and 10 being big with the slightly more casual crowd. 5 was only ever underappreciated in America and Europe because we didn't get a (functional) version of it until a decade later. Square knows fans love it, that's why they've been jerking it off in Stormblood (3 got jerked off early on because Yoshi likes Jobsys games and 3 has better shit to pull from than 2, since they can't blow their load on 1 too early).

Generally speaking, the popularity is roughly 7 >>>> X > 4 > 5 in Japan/6 in America > vice versa > 8/9 depending > the rest

How doesn't it? Someone could decide they hate everyone and become a villain.

They would always have a reason to hate everyone, even if the reason is bad.

not them but without getting into philosophy there are two kinds of evil, one only in concept except in dnd where evil is literally a force.

the problem in games is when you mow down over 9000 people and you are not the bad guy because "they wuz raiders", not the lack of evil the villians display.

Exdeath was fine until they decided to turn him into a joke character in Dissidia.

Just skimming through the thread
yup, he's still a meme and he won't ever recover it seems.
I mean, people are fine with thousands of plant monsters running around in FF, but when the final boss is one, they suddenly struggle to take him serious.

The story isn't any less gloomy than in other FFs in my opinion, it's just not presented that dramatically. Your party in FF5 quickly moves on to save what's left to save instead of spending whole chapters getting over a mental breakdown because their hometown just got nuked.
Or in other words: the story doesn't get fleshed out. The bright side is, that it gives the game higher replay value, because you don't have to spend hours clicking through dialogs.

Sup Forums told me it was really popular in Japan. And the look of all the Japanese RPG Maker games gives the impression that it might be true.

Exdeath was just misunderstood. He just wanted to unite the world and bring everything to what it should be!

Dumb warriors of light! They're the truly evil ones!

They would know the reason is selfish or bad, they just wouldn't care. They definitely know they're not helping.

I've held grudges against people before and if I ever wanted revenge, I'd know that I wasn't on some divine crusade and that I really just wanted to make their lives worse to make myself feel better. I think it's pretty easy to be self-aware about the bad things you do, even identifying with them seems like something someone could do.

Did the people you held grudges against mistreat you? Then it's not that evil..
And if they didn't, would you really murder them in their sleep over nothing?

Exdeath is in 14?
Where?

He ended up poisoning some of his own men in the process though.

he's a raid boss. Omega creates a copy of him and uses him in a sort of ultimate lifeform contest to study the power of heroes, as Omega notices that throughout its travels its found groups of people that shouldn't be able to topple great enemies able to do so, so he's studying them

the hard mode version of the fight in FFXIV does him justice

I completely agree, just your ranking is accurate, but outdated.
Squenix used the Stockholm syndrome method and has been forcing XIII down everybody's throat for a decade until they started liking it.

Exodus was always a meme, it's just nofunallowed assholes and silly kids who got buttflustered when he was hamming it up in Dissidia. He wasn't even really different, he just had a great actor and a troll moveset. The DBZ battle with the turtle and his flippant but overbearing mustache twirling was aleast meant to be funny.

In a similar note, yes, the game was absolutely meant to be "less gloomy" but the team did kind of a poor job. Kitase was tasked with making the game cheerier and his idea of doing so was lowering the word count and adding trite manga cliches. Like you said, it ends up just being snappier instead of finally different.

That's why the GBA localization is the best way to play it. It's the only version where the writing actually fits the tone the game is going for, regardless of language.

>k-kefka did nothing wrong guys!
poisoning a water source which got his own guys, and civilians because "why not?", is not "nothing wrong" its batshit.

That's really cool, i only played through most of the main story, stopped playing after you save minfilia or whatever her name is.
Any other cool shit i missed?

Becasuse plain evil characters disproof "Muh moral relativism".

Hard to claim that morality is subjective next to a guy eating babies.

youtube.com/watch?v=7ccrOAN6nNI

>Plain evil doesn't exist.
Then you never meet a serial killer.

this is why I didn't want to get into philosophy but, assuming the guy is eating them because there is no other way to get sustinance, is it really "evil"?

tl:dr; pure evil doesn't exist, there is always a reason for actions of fuckedupness.

You're right, "not any less gloomy" was an overstatement.
At least they did a good job at making the side issues cheery. E.g. the interactions between your characters, side quests like learning to play piano.

Serial killers have reasons too. Sexual, hatred, cleaning up the world, etc.
People who kill for the fun of it usually have some sort of brain or genetic defect that causes their behaviour, not "evil".

Like you said, it was forced and is already fading now that Square pushes XV instead. Even then, the slow acceptance by many Japanese and some Westerners is mostly the characters, not XIII as a whole. It's already a hard split and we'll likely see it plummet in popularity in the next five years.

Similarly, it's likely we'll see 4 die down in popularity over the next decade or two at least in the West. Its popularity was largely derived from when and where it came out (same for X, and it's part of 7's popularity as well). X is harder to pin, as it's more recent but also has way more problems as well as being a huge meme. It could shift either way in the coming years.

5-9 seem to have totally cooled into consensus, though. Fans tend to see 5-7 as the most stable period the franchise had with their opinions differing based on what they prefer in games (gameplay potential, story potential, narrative and visual execution). 9 never had any hype and will forever be the niche middle of the road game with some diehards and 8's divisive design places it right in the middle as well.

It'll be interesting to see how people regard 12 and especially 15 come across in the future, but fans seem to already be keen on grouping them with 8 as a sort of "mismanaged ambitious project" pile.

At what point in the story is this exactly?

Its the 4.0 raid, so you need to clear up to Stormblood content

you'll also need a static and a few weeks of gearing up to even set foot in it as its too hard to pug

There's definitely some strong bits of whimsy, but Kitase's sense of humor is mostly terrible. Most of the jokes with Galuf fall flat.

V would probably benefit more than any FF from a 3D remake. There's several 4th wall jokes and scenes that demand visual comedy that would be infinitely better with models. The ghost ship section in particular practically screams for a remake.

...

I don't understand what you're saying.
Evil people are not evil because evilness is a mental illness?

google moral relativism
you're not going to get a nuanced understanding of this from Sup Forums. i've been trying all thread and you're still not getting it.

He's a huge junk of wood. Compared to turning himself into a knight in armor, a splinter should be an easy task.

Damn, although I'm happy it's hard.
But damn, That's a long ways off.

I know what you mean. I just didn't read the reply chain, so the post sounded funny on its own.
>Men who suck dick for the fun of it usually have some sort of brain or genetic defect that causes their behaviour, not "gay".
...is what it looked to me and I found it minorly hilarious.

Is a lion who kills a baby antelope and eats it alive evil?

A human doing that would be, because they have a more complex brain capable of empathy.. putting ourselves into the shoes of the baby we're eating. But if a brain defect occurs that takes away this capability, it's just as evil as a lion.

you're implying lions arn't capable of empathy, good luck proving that.
considering only russia picked up that heart cells also have memory i'd say it will be a while.

If you want to claim lions have empathy, the burden of proof is on you.

Just postmodernism retards ruining games like they ruin everything else

>everything that's not monotheism is postmodernism

you claimed they didn't. not interested.

Having no empathy is the default, because most things don't have the brain to even allow it.

you lost me at proof of burden my dude, I don't care.

>Faris being forcibly undressed in 3D

>Plain evil doesn't exist.
Not in human beings, yeah.

Which is why Garland is treated as a tragic figure, consumed and used by horrible monsters to create a stable time loop of suffering.

Which is why the emperor was just a douche until he forsake his humanity, at which point he didn't even become a force of evil but a higher governing consciousness over reality.

Which is why Xande was a pawn to the concept of darkness, which isn't evil, in its bid to propagate itself.

Which is why Zemus was a douche and the final challenge is his abstract, lingering sentiment of hate.

Which is why Kafka was a man driven mad who played at God and ruined lives.

Which is why Sephiroth was a man corrupted by an alien entity that preyed on his internal weakness, and Ardyn as well.

Which is why Ultimecia tries to find conceptual togetherness through time and space.

Which is why Kuja is writhing against the concept of death, not actively spreading evil.

Which is why Sin is just a consequence of one man's arrogance and stupidity.

Which is why none of 11 and 14's plotlines are about pure evil, and some suggest your fight is unjust.

Which is why 13 and LR are about horrible gods and 13-2 is about one man's struggle against fate.

5 is the only "exception," and even then it's not. It just skips the middle man. Exdeath is the consequence of human arrogance and irresponsibility. He is a magical entity created by locking extreme quantities of hate and anger and raw, negative emotion (and demons) in a big magic tree. We focus on the evil wrought by man instead of the man causing said evil for once, and even THEN Exdeath isn't pure evil. He's an alien entity, disconnected from human morality yet emulating its vices. He feels joy and anger but does not have a complete, sapient consciousness and that makes him interesting. He gloats and acts like a dick, but he's striving to achieve a goal of oneness in oblivion. That's not really evil, it's just inhuman.

Humans are not as special as you think. Only an animal researcher could make a valid proof though.

>If you want this type of unthinking badguy, just go with some force of nature type shit, like a natural disaster or the plague.
That's what Exdeath is.
Literally.
He is a fucking tree. The only way you can get more natural is to just make him the wind or something.

I don't think human beings are special. I know crows have a degree of empathy for example, but it still requires a certain level of brain complexity that most animals don't have.

Most of these beings are capable of empthy though.

as shitty as that whole fucking series was, caius ballad was a great villain. he just wants to stop his waifu from suffering

>trees are capable of empathy

This is your main villain for tonight

Say something nice about him (male)

Nice hips.

Does he actually behave like a tree? I don't know the character, I clicked the thread cause he looked cool.

I mean he's pretty wooden, so yeah.

...

it would be at the top of most people FF list if it was released in the US at release. People just nostalgiafag FFVI

5 > 6 > 4, played them in release order.

same thoughts as well. Played them all in a row a few years ago for the first time so I don't have any nostaliga bias. Vs combat was just a lot better

>That moment when you unveil the illusion over his castle
>Exdeath is a tree made of wood
>He made his home out of people
>The irony no one notices

Favorite FF, underrated

He's all of the worlds most powerful demons sealed into a tree that got bored of being sealed, so made himself into a walking, talking, suit of armor. He's the exact definition of evil. Add to it that FF5 doesn't take itself seriously (he escapes being destroyed by the worlds merging by transforming his wooden ass into a splinter and hiding on your characters) and you've got an amazing villain.

So what was Neo Exdeath supposed to be? I always assumed the Void ripped away the tree part and what was left was all the demons fused into one.