2D Sonic was succesful

>2D Sonic was succesful
>So lets make more 3D games to try to kill the franchise again

What did they mean by this?

eurogamer.net/articles/2017-10-23-sonic-mania-and-its-impact-on-the-future-of-the-sonic-series

The sad thing is Sonic Mania wasn't even that good, a lot of the boss fights and sequences were more annoying than fun, but it's still the closest thing to what people have been wanting from this IP in over a decade.

Sounds like you're not very good at it.

They don't want to accept that the west can make better Sonic games than the nips. If Sega was smart they would finally realize that competing with Mario is a bad thing and their strengths lie in the 2D realm for Sonic. I honestly think the next step for Sonic is to emulate what Rayman did and try to bridge the gap between 2D vidya and cartoon visuals.

>a lot of the boss fights and sequences were more annoying than fun

I thought it was mostly fine but I just can't get past the Oil Zone boss which is pissing me off because I can complete the other Sonic games but for some reason this one boss is giving me more trouble than all of them combined which I don't understand why.

Implying 2D is the only thing that can save Sonic.

You sound upset. I hope the annoying boss fights weren't too hard for you to enjoy, user.

t. chad

Most of the interview sounded very typical, with him just saying what he knows he's supposed to say about Sonic, but then he gets so excited when the interviewer mentions Samba de Amigo at the end. It's kind of sad. I bet a lot of people at Sonic Team would rather be working on something that isn't Sonic.

Jesus you lot are defensive.

>this one boss is giving me more trouble than all of them combined which I don't understand why
me neither. the boss is easy

Oil Zone boss fucked with me

I literally find it harder than any other boss before it and even dropped the game for a month because I got sick of repeating Oil Zone over and over.

...

Fpbp

not them but how's your first day on Sup Forums? where everyone is autistic and defensive about stuff they like?

All the boss fights were piss easy, you just have to find the pattern

Unless you can't remember patterns for certain reasons, or have ADHD and can't learn them, you're just shit at the game

The boss was easy.

I have no idea how you guys beat Sonic 1&2 if you had issues with ANY boss in Mania, even the Oil Ocean boss.

That's why I keep saying I'm confused as fuck. I recently ran through a couple of Sonic games including Sonic 2 in prep for Mania yet Oil Zone just fucks me.

user, those people whining clearly never played the first Sonic games

This was before Forces bombed.

It's a terribly designed boss where the literal only winning move is a cheese strat and autists will meme that you're bad because Sonic Mania can't just be really good it has to be perfect

Then you're just bad, user.

Mania is the easiest out of the 3(K)
That's saying A LOT considering 3&K is considered incredibly easy.

Yeah I didn't want to but I'm going to have to look up gameplay to see what I'm doing wrong.

>completed the other Sonic games
>n-nah you're bad at Sonic i-it couldn't be a problem with Mania

Sure.

My 10 year old nephew completed the game without a single gameover.

You're just unreasonably bad, user.

K

You really do just suck at the game. Stick to the middle platform for most of the fight and keep ducking. Jump over the laser if it shoots low, otherwise don't move until the tentacles come up to pull the platforms down. Jump to the safe platform. When the boss comes up get in a hit or two on the turrets and jump to safety. When the platforms come back up jump to the center one again. Repeat until the turrets are gone, then focus on the core boss. You can even skip destroying the turrets if you are good at dodging.
It's an easy boss.

I've beaten it the slow way more time than I've cheesed it. Never had trouble with it and I honestly don't understand what makes it so hard for shitters.

Lmao at Nakamura leading with a backhanded compliment.

That's the thing, I wasn't even that critical, I called it the closest thing to what people have been wanting from this IP in over a decade, that's the greatest praise I could give a modern sonic game. Anons here still seemed to get butthurt by me thinking we shouldn't give the game a free pass just because people seem to be this desperate for a Sonic game that imitates the older titles.

But apparently I must be bad at the game for wanting my boss fights to entail dodging enemy attacks instead of waiting for slow moving enemies to try to attack me with a saw blade or playing a homage to Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine.

>we should break down what people liked about Mania, and in the future - when we build our 3D games - see what essence we can take from Sonic Mania and put into a 3D world, to give people what they're looking for and that they've found in Sonic Mania.

Oh boy, I can't wait to play "Sonic Boom 3 - Now featuring Chemical Plant Zone"

it really just means we'll see even more half assed 2D sections in a """"""""3D"""""""" Sonic game

>we should break down what people liked about Mania, and in the future - when we build our 3D games - see what essence we can take from Sonic Mania and put into a 3D world, to give people what they're looking for and that they've found in Sonic Mania.

But they have been doing that for fucking years and they can't get it right yet

>we still have the fucking wisps from colors that do nothing but skip the level
>we have reused Generations art and assets up the ass
>we have rehash battles from Generations
>we literally have the same 2D sections from Colors plastered onto forces
>we had Classic Sonic fucking AGAIN, with "classic levels" AGAIN

I don't think they are capable of making games to be honest, one guy and a small team was able to deliver something better than anything they have done in 10 years. That should be saying fucking something

How do so many people have difficulty playing mania? I seriously dont understand how people have trouble with the bosses in this game, oil ocean is so easy, destroy the two orb shooters before going for the octobot..

The only boss that was annoying was the Oil Ocean boss

>letting Dimps handle 2D Sonic
it was like letting Ninja Theory handle Devil May Cry
being a sidescroller isn't the element that makes 2D Sonic inherently good, just like boost-to-win isn't 3D Sonic's winning formula either. it's what's built around these foundations that matter.
Sonic Forces is the ultimate evidence that making the core design by itself isn't enough to make the game good. Generations was successful because it had a ton of nostalgia bait wrapped around the same elements

The problem is that they are afraid to try something new. The fanbase has shat on them for so long asking again and again for the same old classic shit that they honestly believe people just want to run through Green Hill Zone over and over again.
>we want old shit
>no here's some new one instead, please move the fuck on, look at Unleashed's daytime stages for fucks sake
>NO, WE WANT OLD SHIT NOW
>fucking hell, go ahead then, here's Generations
>FINALLY YES, THANK YOU BASED SEGA PLS MORE NOSTALGIA
>okay, let's recycle even more shit on Forces then
>REEE NOT LIKE THIS
the fanbase is killing the series, nothing else.
3D Sonic was always meant to be like Unleashed's daytime stages, but people kept shoehorning nostalgia shit to hijack it into becoming 2D Sonic instead, which led to the abominations that are the classic Sonic sections in Generations and Forces.
instead, people should have just asked for Mania as a separate game and be done with it.

also, Sonic 2006 was shaping up to be basically Adventure 3, which despite all the unfinished development's bugs would still be considered a shitty game if it was completed because it capitalized on the fanbase's constant whining for yet another Adventure

>letting Dimps handle 2D Sonic
dimps aint the issue, sonic advance 1,2, rush and rush adventure are good shit, different from the regular 2d sonic games, but still good

yes, but Sonic Advance is still different enough from the Genesis games, you can't apply the same design and physics.
people wanted a rehash from Sonic 3 so all Sega needed to do was officially sanction a romhack running at 1080p, but Taxman went a step ahead just to make sure it worked.
Sega back then during Sonic 4 instead decided to have Dimps make a gimped Sonic Advance HD that visually pretended to be a Genesis game

>make a gimped Sonic Advance HD
that is an insult to the spritework in advance, and hell, even to the 3d models in rush

>You see Mania was 2D so it was simple and had mass appeal
LMAO did he really imply 3D Sanic is just 2deep4u
Wouldn't you WANT as a dev to make games that appeal to more people?

Fucking Sega never changes

no user, he simply meant that people are not willing to drop sixty buckaroos for a 2D Sonic game that lasts for 2 hours, even if it had Dragon's Crown-levels of sprite/animation quality
Modern Sonic is meant for a different audience (namely normies and kids, not Mania's nostalgiafags on their 30s) and follows a different model of development and investment.
he is not wrong. 2D Sonic and 3D Sonic should be two different franchises with different audiences.

Saying that people didn't understand a product is just the standard way of admitting it was shit.

Oil Ocean was the only remotely challenging boss. I'll take more of that over the other dead in 3 seconds battles.

>the fanbase is killing the series, nothing else.
>blaming the fanbase for your inability to deliver the most basic of gameplay

If the fanbase was a problem then stop listening to them. It's their game, they should have the fucking balls to do whatever they want with it, its just that since they cannot do anything but rehash stuff it's easier to blame the stupid part of the fanbase who doesn't know what they want

>Wouldn't you WANT as a dev to make games that appeal to more people?
>"We want the Call of Duty audience"
It's exactly that mentality that ruined so many games

>blaming the fanbase for your inability to deliver the most basic of gameplay
except there's literally no one in the entire internet capable of defining what is the "most basic of gameplay" Sonic should have, without having at least half of the fanbase saying it's not.
>stop listening to them
Tell me about some games that became successfull by forsaking its entire audience, then.
DmC? Final Fantasy XIII?

>If Sega was smart they would finally realize that competing with Mario is a bad thing and their strengths lie in the 2D realm for Sonic
they are incapable of doing either

for some reason oil zone took me forever and a half because you can get instakilled by it dragging you down. no other boss took me more than two tries. I got SO fucking mad at that boss but now after having beaten the game i run through it without getting touched every time. You'll get the timing down.


it was 20 bucks

Sonic was never good

>except there's literally no one in the entire internet capable of defining what is the "most basic of gameplay" Sonic should have, without having at least half of the fanbase saying it's not.
>meanwhile one guy looks at Sonic 3&K and decides to make a game like that
>surprise, surprise, it's a massive hit

>Tell me about some games that became successfull by forsaking its entire audience

Game developers should be good enough to the point where they know what's best for the game, they can read reviews about it and adjust changes for the sequels.

Sonic Team listens to the fans but they don't understand where the complaints come from and then we get Sonic 4 for example when people were just asking for something akin to Sonic 3&K.

Why do people feel the need to apologize for daddy SEGA and their mismanagement.

>meanwhile one guy looks at Sonic 3&K and decides to make a game like that
>surprise, surprise, it's a massive hit
>Game developers should be good enough to the point where they know what's best for the game, they can read reviews about it and adjust changes for the sequels.
except Mania is not "the best" for Modern Sonic.
Modern Sonic is its own franchise. Mania can't spawn a series of S3&K mods with AAA production costs and costing $60.
You want more Mania? Good, but we're talking about a completely different series. One can't replace the other, because they are chasing different audiences.
This "massive hit" you speak of is just a bubble caused by decades of hype from the genesisfags, but you can bet your ass that 3 or 4 sequels of Mania rehashes will end up having just as many haters asking for completely different definitions of "most basic of gameplay" instead of what it has.

Stockholm Syndrome.

Have you even been playing the games? They're shit independent of the type of content within them. A poorly made game is a poorly made game. They're flat-out not worth playing, you can have more fun jacking off in a bathroom than you can with the latest 3D shitfest from Sonic Team, because they just don't know or don't care about quality. The fanbase is atrocious but Sega's the one actually making shitty games, not a bunch of idiots on the internet.

sure, if you want modern Sonic to be like mania then of course all of them are shit, just like Zeldafags whining that everything 3D that's not Ocarina of Time is also shit

>but you can bet your ass that 3 or 4 sequels of Mania rehashes will end up having just as many haters asking for completely different definitions of "most basic of gameplay" instead of what it has.

Show me one fucking review where it doesn't say that the gameplay is perfect and all the game needed was lesh rehash zones (Which surprise, surprise it was another brilliant idea by Izuka).

It was the THING the fans asked for years, at least the classic gameplay ones. And a 3rd party had to get involved to show them.

>modern Sonic
Modern Sonic is a fucking joke, there is more rehash there than in Mania, i'd say Mania is the better and LONGER game between it and Forces. Kinda funny how the shorter game costs more

I want them to do more like Unleashed and Generations, there weren't nothing but straight lines in those and to get those super speed runs you had to know the level pretty well, but I never ever want to experience a place like Eggmanland or Planet Wisp ever again. What the hell happened in Forces? All the levels are barely even a minute

>and their strengths lie in the 2D realm for Sonic.

Sonic works better in 3d though

>Show me one fucking review where it doesn't say that-
Are you even reading what I wrote?
I'm talking about Mania being such a success exactly because it's an EXCEPTION, not the rule. If it was constantly rehashed then it wouldn't be as successful. Forces is proof that a rehash of Generations isn't guaranteed of being a hit.

Then what are we even arguing about? All i'm saying is that it doesn't matter if SEGA does listen to the fans or not, THEY CAN'T MAKE FUCKING GAMES.

Everything they have tried has failed because they don't know what to fucking do with Sonic besides rehashing shit

Blaming the fanbase for your inability to do your job is retarded

Sonic Mania is the only game in the entire series that has good or memorable boss battles.

Maybe someday Sega will prove you right. But it sure as fuck hasn't happened yet.

Metropolis was the only zone in forces that had any real imagination behind it.

And I'm saying they can, as long as they stop shoehorning weird shit or nostalgia bait on them.
Forces would have been a way better game if it cut all ties to classic sonic. Unleashed would have been a way better game if it had only the daytime stages.
The fanbase is indeed to blame for expecting bananas to taste like apples. Modern Sonic will never be "fixed" or "good" by classicfags's standards, because it will never be what they wanted. It simply needs to keep pursuing its intended audience instead of rehashing nostalgia to appease these people that only want Mania and nothing else.

Who asked for the werewolf? Who asked for Classic Sonic in Forces? I legit need some evidence of the fanbase doing these complaints because. Go on Youtube comments section, find discussion forums, hell even here on Sup Forums. I haven't seen ANYONE asking for what we got in Unleashed or for Classic Sonic to be back in Forces. Or for the wisps to be in yet another game.

It's easy to blame the fanbase because it's easy to claim a couple of retards somewhere cried that they wanted Classic Sonic. And this wouldn't be a problem either if they did a good job at it. For example, we got plenty of rehash zones in Mania but each Act 2 (Except for maybe Hydrocity and Lava Reef) in the game was extremely different to its predecessor and gave the zone a refreshing feel.

What kind of shit game developer blames its fanbase for their ineptitude holy shit

Forces had lower production costs, lower pricetag, a B-team in charge of level design and a need to split the game into 3.
Fortunately, the avatar stages aren't bad, but they are bland enough to not matter in the overall package. You've got 1/3 of a bad game (classic stages have no decent physics or momentum), 1/3 of a mediocre game (avatar) and 1/3 of a good game (which is shit for everyone that doesn't like Modern Sonic).

The boss fights were fucking easy come on man

Sonic has one of the most autistic fanbases what did you expect

Brain dead idiots that need to get viciously beaten on camera

Im honestly starting to think that sega are trying REALLLLYYYY fucking hard to bomb there company for some weird reason but on an equally weird reason there new sonic games make profit, thus the company continues to stay afloat much to there anger and annoyance.

Brain dead idiots that need to get viciously beaten on camera
>getaloadofthisguy.jpg

I thought almost every boss was inferior to S&K. The police heavy was good, the final boss was a mess and not fun at all. And all the other were kind of middle of the road.

Forces was the best 3D game though, and far better than the flop known as Sonic Mania.

You can feel the butthurt throughout this interview

The literal answer is Japanese pride. They're not going to accept that gaijin did Sonic better than them, again.

Mania is horrendously overrated and Forces is objectively better than it.

>when we build our 3D games - see what essence we can take from Sonic Mania and put into a 3D world, to give people what they're looking for and that they've found in Sonic Mania
The people in charge are fucking stupid if they think this is how it works.

>Tell me about some games that became successfull by forsaking its entire audience, then.
Fire Emblem Awakening

fuck that game

Castlevania Lords of Shadow as well

I wonder if the problem is that Sonic's fanbase is primarily western so the Japanese developers are often out of touch and get their cues from Japanese secondaries who like completely different things, while western devs don't have this same issue as they aren't so isolated from the main fanbase so stuff like Mania can happen

>Who asked for the werewolf?
Dunno, go ask them. Read my post again and you'll see I'm blaming them for making weird shit, not just blaming the fanbase.
>Who asked for Classic Sonic in Forces?
All the people who got memed the return of Classic Sonic all the way up to the release of Generations, crying about a lack of classic gameplay in every single release up to this point.
They simply looked at the sales numbers for Generations and recycled it for more success.
>It's easy to blame the fanbase because it's easy to claim a couple of retards somewhere cried that they wanted Classic Sonic.
yeah because no one wanted classic sonic games anymore amirite? no one cried about sonic being ruined forever because it kept being 3D, right? really activates those almonds
>What kind of shit game developer blames its fanbase for their ineptitude holy shit
and now our armchair marketer claims the recipe for success is to ignore what everyone is asking for.
no user, the problem is asking for something that you don't actually want. people don't like modern sonic games, claim they are all bad and how they need to go back to their roots, then Sega takes this as feedback to take two steps back with more nostalgia instead of taking a step forward

You sure Sega and Sonic team aren't just incompetent? They don't exactly have a history of making good decisions, even outside of Sonic.

Mania is dog shit

its true because you said objectively

>objectively
ok i'm convinced, argument over

>people don't like modern sonic games, claim they are all bad and how they need to go back to their roots, then Sega takes this as feedback to take two steps back with more nostalgia instead of taking a step forward
You don't see the problem? Sega takes all the feedback they hear, use it, and fuck it up. This has been what they've done for years. You can't blame the fanbase for being huge and having various opinions. Sega now has the option of making both classic Sonic games and boost games separate from each other, they should have taken it with Mania and Forces.

Holy shit are you fucking serious, what kind of game developer does whatever the fans want? But you are right, it's 100% the fanbase fault, Sonic Team has no freedom, they are literally tied to chains in a basement and forced to do whatever the fans want, they are in no way responsible for things like 06', the Werehog and Forces' flop.

I'm literally done with you, it's fucking mindblowing how you think a game being bad is the fault of everyone BUT THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM WHO ACTUALLY MADE THE GAME AND HAD A HAND IN IT.

Imagine a comedy show that blames it's audience for not laughing instead of coming up with better jokes, this is how retarded you sound.

>Shun Nakamura: I really want to make Samba de Amigo on the Switch!

This is the problem with Sonic Team. This right here. Let them do focus on new projects, jesus christ

hey guys. so im letting my 15 year old "sister" play this game. i bought it for her. but she is very bad at it. once she got to flying battery zone, she got game overed about 10 times. and took like 10 tries on the main boss.

what are some tips i can give her?

>Oil Ocean
>hard
Were we playing the same game?

>what are some tips i can give her?
Tell her to get good.
>"sister"
Explain further.

>what kind of game developer does whatever the fans want?
the concept of feedback is lost on you
>But you are right, it's 100% the fanbase fault, Sonic Team has no freedom, they are literally tied to chains in a basement and forced to do whatever the fans want
oooh boy, here comes the autism. look at dem strawmen. here, let me copypaste literally the first sentence in my post "Read my post again and you'll see I'm blaming them for making weird shit, not just blaming the fanbase."
>they are in no way responsible for things like 06', the Werehog and Forces' flop.
of course they have their share of blame, but people did pester them for Adventure 3 and more classic Sonic.
>it's fucking mindblowing how you think a game being bad is the fault of everyone BUT THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM WHO ACTUALLY MADE THE GAME AND HAD A HAND IN IT.
again with the strawman, huh? here: "Read my post again and you'll see I'm blaming them for making weird shit, not just blaming the fanbase."
Imagine a rabid user blaming a madeup quote instead of addressing what I actually said, this is how retarded you sound.

Show her this webm and tell her to get good

>i-it didn't really have anything to do with those filthy gaijin who made it!
>w-we had /our guy/ overseas there, you know, supervising... a-and that's why it was so good-!
Holy fuck. SoJ will really stoop to any lengths to be cunts to the american branch.

>An outdated game and a party game is all 3d sonic ever had
Jesus

>t. Izuka

Sonic Forces Switch is like 17€ here.
Is it that bad

Nice cherrypicking you jaded idiot. All the games on that pic are objectively 11/10. People lack the brain cells to truly enjoy these titles that's why they'll never flat out admit it

t. Iizuka

see
depends on what you're looking for in it.
Keep in mind the story is literally "new invincible villain rekts Sonic, you rescue him, then he comes back and saves the day after everyone helps find out his weakness".
The avatar is surprisingly not autistic.