Sound... the retreat

Sound... the retreat.

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>Whole game is "that level"

The whole Ostagar plan was pretty stupid

>expect a giant army of monsters
>half your army is missing
>"yeah let's just go ahead with it anyway"

he did literally nothing wrong

SADEAS!

but they were not expecting a giant army of monsters, its why the king wanted to fight in it in the first place, so he could get some glory in combat, and get out of his brother or father's shadow.
Also, Simon Templeman is awesome, so Logarius gets a few points, but it was his distrust of Orlais is what cause all the problems

The king was a retard, Loghain did nothing wrong.

playing through this game its almost palpable how insecure bioware was over witcher 1.

Cailan was a retard but Logain out-retarded him

Wha?

>but they were not expecting a giant army of monsters
They were there to fight a Blight before it got out of hand and overran the country. A Blight, by definition, is a giant army of monsters.

In fact, they were there to fight a giant army of monsters and the giant demon dragon leading it. The Orlesians not showing up should have been enough reason to retreat inland.

God damn, the ultimate edition is a buggy piece of shit. I could play the regular one with all the upscale texture mods out there without a fucking problem but this piece of shit just freezes constantly and also corrupts memory so that other dx9 games have pink textures. It even distorts the output when there was a sound at the point of crashing. Holy bioware really didn't want the game to work outside of origin did they?

>Let's just abandon the only shot (at the time) of defeating the Darkspawn by leaving the King with only half an army. I'm a master strategist

t. Brainlet Loghain

No Archdemon to kill, no real victory over the Darkspawn.

>"yeah let's just go ahead with it anyway"
Well what the fuck were they supposed to do? Retreat and get slaughtered while they ran?

So his master plan is just to let the Darkspawn shit on the largest portion of Ferelden's forces?

They should make a dragon age origins prequel. The first game was so money

>King leads charge outside of choke point against massively superior army
Reminder than the dark spawn army literally reached back towards the horizon so the encirclement plan was already fucked and loghain was just cutting losses

>retreat
>fall back to Denrim
>have no real plan to deal with the darkspawn horde
>start civil war over the crownnwhile darkspawn rape the countryside

Loghain is a fucking retard. The guy had zero plan of dealing with the darkspawn either.

The Darkspawn didn't arrive in force until after sundown. All the hours you spent getting there and dicking around in the swamp could have been used to pull out.

Standing their ground didn't do them any good and even if the Darkspawn attacked them in the rear while pulling out, more could potentially have survived than they did in that pointless last stand

no his plan was so save what he could. The battle was already lost. If he attack he and his men would have died along with the king.

Cailan was a moron for his shit plan, but Loghain was even dumber because he fucking went and declared all Grey Wardens enemies of the fucking state. What the FUCK was that thought process? Not to mention surrounding himself with people such as Howe

>instead of knee capping the archdemon by crushing a large part of the horde in a pincer attack, we'll let them destroy half our army and then further weaken the country with political maneuvering
Logain's a power mad asshole and made things harder on the whole country just because he was still mad at Orlais

werks on my machine xdd
no but seriously I have no idea why you're having those issues. Is it really just that one mod?

>no his plan was so save what he could
Thats why he forced this shitty plan instead of waiting for the Orlesians? Or even for Arl Eamons forces?
The fucking cunt almost doomed his country, stop defending him.

No one knew that a grey warden was needed to kill the archdemon. From his point of view, the grey wardens were ordinary soldiers who had special rights for no reason.

This more than anything, it's well known a Grey Warden is the only one able to end a blight and he starts picking them off, his plan was to literally allow the archdemon to destroy Ferelden to stick it to the Orlesians.

>No one knew that a grey warden was needed to kill the archdemon.
Nigga what, this was common knowledge. Even still why the FUCK outlaw them?

>tfw you sided with Logain because of his VA

>Thats why he forced this shitty plan instead of waiting for the Orlesians? Or even for Arl Eamons forces?
It was actually Cailan who said "Oh we don't need the Orlesians? In that case this plan is perfect and we don't need Eamon's or Cousland's forces either." And let's not forget that the only person forcing the specific plan executed was Cailan, and that Loghain tried to advise against it before going against it.

But didn't everyone except the wardens not think it was a blight, since no archdemon was seen. Even Logain seemed to think that.

Not common ''knowledge'',essentially mythos.

There has been hundreds of years between Blights, the historical fact that the First Blight (which lasted decades by itself) was only stopped by the Grey Wardens has been diluted by time

No one knows you literally need a Grey Warden present to kill the Archdemon forever, it's been distorted into "Grey Wardens = Darkspawn killers = Grey Wardens kill Archdemons"

>his shitty plan
King Cailan came up with the plan and refused to wait.
The only thing Loghain did wrong was making the grey wardens criminals and believing he could beat the blight without them.

>common knowledge
No it wasn't. We find that out very late in the game, when that old surviving warden tells us.

I swear it was. But even still, if they're a mythical source of darkspawn slaughtering, why go full retard and genocide them?

Duncan said it was a Blight and Cailan believed him because he was the King who let the Wardens back into Fereldan and wanted to play at being a hero. Loghain didn't believe it because Duncan couldn't explain how his Tainted blood caused him to actually hear the Archdemon's call to battle

>old surviving warden
Who was that?

THESE SPIDERS HAVE SKELETONS

He just needed a scapegoat. Anyone weird and different works, it was either mages or wardens at that point.

Even then, why wouldn't you want people who's entire purpose is killing darkspawn on your side when you are going to be killing darkspawn?

Riordin, the Orleasian Warden that tells you about the Archdemon and dies slicing its wing up

>kill an enemy
>they turn into a skull an 3 bones
spooky

Why not the mages then? No one likes mages. They're the niggers of Thedas

OMG another stormlight archive fan, what do you think of the series so far without spoiling the third book as I haven't finished yet.

My bad, he wasn't a surviving warden, he was from Orlais. Been many years since I played so I don't remember all the details.

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Riordan

I do remember him stating himself he wasn't sure if it was even a blight when you first speak to him, though again that might have been Loghains influence on him.

Never thought about this before but holy shit you're right.

I liked the game a lot but at the same time I wasn't excited to run those dungeons or quests.

Might be because they're designed to be looked at from a top down view. May give that a try next time I choose to play it.

If you aren't aware of why Wardens are important, it's picking between having 2 commandos on your side or having a guild of about a 100 people who summon fire storms.

The only part of this game I objectively hate is the Fade
god I fucking hate the fade.

The Mages had political power. And there was still a tower full of them, guarded by a small army of Templars who also had political power when it came to people messing with their business.

The Wardens numbered less than ten

I thought it was known you needed a warden, just nobody actually knew anymore details then that, and didn't know why or that they'd die from it.

>May give that a try next time I choose to play it.
Don't tell me there are people who unironically play the combat sections in third person view

>The Wardens numbered less than ten
partly due to Loghain genociding the remnants

>OMG another stormlight archive fan, what do you think of the series so far without spoiling the third book as I haven't finished yet.

I'm halfway through book 2, it's pretty great so far. I have no clue how Sanderson is going to write 10 1,000+ page books.

Because they know he's a traitor

All of the Fereldan wardens were at Ostagar, according to Duncan, they died to darkspawn, not Loghain.

It doesn't matter. In the eyes of the people, the Grey Wardens were ordinary soldiers who (maybe) knew a few tricks about killing darkspawn.

Ah right, forgot about that tidbit, but he could have done something rational, instead of starting a civil war.

I'm pretty sure they all died in the battle. Except you and Alistair, who were rescued by Flemeth, and Riordan who was imprisoned in Denerim for god knows how long

I lied, I'm on book 4 or whatever the newest one is, what I can say is that he does a great job, I'm pretty sure that not all 10 books are going to tell the same story, I think this current one is like 6 or 7 books long, and then it switches.

The dude is a madman, if you look at his publishing work he does so much he must dedicate every single second to writing. The series keeps getting better and has not let up in quality or suspense so far, hang in there brother!

the only "remnants" were the protagonist and Alistair

>Loghain is a fucking retard. The guy had zero plan of dealing with the darkspawn either.

and was fucking over the only people that could stop it.

So I executed him after kicking his ass

I thought more escaped than just the two main ones
Looks like I gotta play it again

>Duncan said it was a Blight and Cailan believed him because he was the King who let the Wardens back into Fereldan and wanted to play at being a hero.
No, Cailan has doubts about the whole Blight thing when you talk to him when you first meet him.
>Cailan: I'm not even sure this is a true Blight. There are plenty of darkspawn on the field, but alas, we've seen no sign of an archdemon.
But Cailan was always going to fight, archdemon or not. He wanted to be the fairy tale hero, he wanted to be the noble warrior and the only way he could have achieve that is by selfishly rushing into battle for the glory. That's why Loghain was pretty much justified in abandoning him. There was nothing he could do to change his mind.

Because despite the Grey Wardens being ostentatiously apolitical, history proved otherwise. Their reputation was somewhat in tatters for involving themselves in politics by that time. Loghain didn't trust Orlesian wardens not to act on behalf of Orlais; which was still a threat to the sovereignty of Ferelden. You even discover a Orlesian plot by the Empress to reacquire Ferelden by marrying Cailan, they were definitely trying to get back their lost province by any means necessary.

>some shady assassin fuck asks you to perform a bunch of assassinations around the country
>complete them all
>"surprise, they were all Loghain's men"
Why not tell me that in the first place

>All the hours you spent getting there and dicking around in the swamp could have been used to pull out.
That was scouting ahead though and has zero bearing on what you've said, you found the presence of some darkspawn but not the mother-load.

Loghain marched his army to the battlefield, looked at the impending horde then fucked off. Nobody had any idea of the scale of what was coming towards them.

I always wondered why he left Cailan for dead, and I've put it as two parts:
>personal vendetta - Cailan was gonna marry the Orlesian queen, and Loghain, a veteran of the war against Orlais' occupation of Fereldan, fucking HATED Orlais, and saw this as a betrayal
>wanted to save whoever was left - even before he sounded the retreat, the army was getting its shit kicked by like 1% of the Darkspawn, and there wasn't even an Archdemon yet, plus their strategy was shit since they were massively outnumbered
Is this correct?

Loghain hated Cailan's politicking but he didn't betray him because he hated Cailan himself. It's quite clear that the only thing Loghain would have achieved by rushing with his forces is destroy any chance of Ferelden resisting the Blight. As another user said, his only fault was not trusting the Wardens and branding them traitors instead of collaborating with them to kill the archdemon.

In the Warden's Keep DLC, you find out that a long while ago the Grey Wardens became enemies of the state by slaughtering royalty, condemning Levi Dryden's family to permanent infamy and leaving a sour taste in everyone's mouth about the Wardens. King Cailan's father was the first person to allow the Wardens to openly rebuild, which was a huge uproar at the time. It's why there are so few Wardens in Ferelden, and why Duncan was struggling to rebuild, because while he had the Rite of Conscription, if he used it recklessly the Ferelden forces would just slaughter them out of existence.

>zero plan
That was Cailan's fault for pulling rank on the only guy with enough experience to save his life and his country. After he insisted on getting the entire army killed, of course Loghain had to act on an impulse and no plan, because literally anything else is better than the plan that includes losing everything.

Doesn't he only find out about the marriage in return to ostagar?

Except saying he was sparing his forces was a smokescreen. Loghain found out that Cailan was cheating on his daughter with an Orlesian consort, and actively allowed his king to die at Ostagar as an act of revenge. When you play Return to Ostagar, you can find the letters being written between the two, and several party members confront Loghain about it in party banter, and he refuses to answer.

Loghain didn't hate Cailan, he decided that there was no way to convince him not to involve himself with the orlesians so he decided that he had to kill him. No personal feelings

>nothing personnel, king

It's been a while since I played it but I'm pretty sure he knew Cailan was corresponding with the Empress and was getting pretty antsy because Arl Eamon was quietly pushing for Cailan to dump Anora because she hadn't popped out a baby yet

It's only in RTO that he gets hard evidence Cailan might have been fucking him over twice by siding with the Orlesians and dumping his daughter

Umm sweetie? Loghain found about Cailan's betrayal in the Ostagar DLC, long after Cailan was dead. And even though he was mad, he didn't exhibit any hate towards Cailan himself, just the fact that he would have sold Ferelden to Orlais not so long after Ferelden freed itself at the cost of Loghain and Maric's family and close ones.

>Umm sweetie?

Cailan gives the ultimatum:
>indebt the nation to the Orlesians (who will jump at the chance to exploit/enslave Ferelden again)
>or a heroic (idiotic) charge that wins the day (gets everyone killed) just like in his bedtime stories
Loghain merely introduces the third option:
>retreat to fight another day, regardless of which circumstances may present themselves later

Back to Sup Forums

>Loghain hated Cailan's politicking but he didn't betray him because he hated Cailan himself.
I know he didn't hate Cailan, at least not on a personal level, he just thinks of him as unworthy of his father's title.
>It's quite clear that the only thing Loghain would have achieved by rushing with his forces is destroy any chance of Ferelden resisting the Blight.
I agree, but what I don't understamd is why he made a power-play afterwards.
>As another user said, his only fault was not trusting the Wardens and branding them traitors instead of collaborating with them to kill the archdemon.
Weren't they exiled for like a hundred years because they tried to coup a rather ruthless king? Warden's Keep talks about it, it's why there's only like thirty Wardens in Ferelden, they were only allowed back in like a decade ago.

Maybe, haven't played in a while.

Exactly, nothin personnel King, he didn't hate Cailan, he just hated Orlesians.

>commander-in-chief mentions "strategies" and "boring" in the same sentence

logain also didnt believe it was a blight, thats why he did his plan the way he did

So Alistair was gay right?

So what would you have done, Sup Forums?

Evacuate the countryside? Split your forces and assign large garrisons to major population centers? The Blight couldn't exactly be routed

>I agree, but what I don't understamd is why he made a power-play afterwards.
I think it was explained in the game. Loghain needed the country united in order to stand a chance against the Blight, but he wouldn't have been able to do that if powerful nobles like Eamon started questioning him due to his retreat (as they did initially).

100% straight, he's just been isolated from women and never had the chance to be intimate with someone until the Warden, else Morrigan during the Ritual, else Anora after consummating marriage, else random prostitute after losing everything.

The issue is that he tried to force himself as Reagent rather than letting Anora handle things

>Whoops, the King is dead (maybe because of me)
>I'm you're ruler now and anyone who says otherwise is a traitor
Not a great plan

My mans

>not letting Alistair fight him

Would Anora unite them and have them field an army against the blight?

Oh shit I forgot about that, nobody except the Wardens thought it was a Blight, and nobody listened to them because "muh regicide."

Nope, just a turbovirgin who is strangely alpha-like.

Well, Blights all hinge on the Archdemon, so I'd evacuate people and retreat until one showed up, then hit it with everything I got. Unfortunately, nobody thought it was a Blight until a while later, so this wouldn't really work.

>Loghain needed the country united in order to stand a chance against the Blight, but he wouldn't have been able to do that if powerful nobles like Eamon started questioning him due to his retreat (as they did initially).
Hmm, makes sense, especially since people in his regiment would start talking about how they retreated. And people loved Cailan, didn't they?

>preventing Alistair from marrying Anora

He's just never kicked a lamp post in winter.

>not turning him into Punished Loghain and doom him to a death sentence that still allows him to be useful (he IS a master strategist after all)

By then the Darkspawn were already pushing into the country and showed no signs of stopping

She'd have to if she wanted there to be a country left to lead

Licked*

>marrying that slag
>not allowing Alistair to avenge his brother
Forcing Loghain to become what he sought to destroy and force him to die for his country is pretty poetic too.

I'm not so sure she would be as capable of mustering an army as quickly as a seasoned general would.