What went so terribly wrong?

What went so terribly wrong?

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3ds.guide/
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I don't know user, why don't we play the video one more time?

Not really that much. Case 3.

Capcom forcing the writers to put Phoenix in.

Klavier being friendly and not serious about his prosecuting job right off the bat. He was basically with Apollo with everything that went down in court. At least when Edgeworth became "friendly" with Phoenix, he still challenged him constantly on his theories.

The cases were pretty boring.

>bad protagonist
>no edgeworth
>no maya
>no gumshoe
>cases outright infuriatingly stupid

I just started the very first Phoenix Wright game as I heard it was great........but it's really not doing it for me.

The court room scenes/solutions are obtuse as fuck and it honestly just feels like trial and error a lot of the time (not all of the time mind you) to move the story along.

I mean it's not terrible, but do the later games get a little tighter in the actual gameplay/puzzle department?

>DUDE THIS IS HOW YOU PICK UP A BOTTLE BENEATH YOU LMAO

Yes
The first game has some very memorable cases (particularly the fourth) but the gameplay is still a bit unpolished (which is super noticeable in the third case, which can become a bit of a pixeltriggerhunting hell). From the second game onwards that shit gets tightened up.

No, it's pretty much a visual novel.

The cases were generally bad. That's it.

Apollo is a good character, Trucy is a fun assistant, Phoenix was shoved in but a decent mentor figure, Kristoph is a good villain - it's just that every case after the first is a fucking mess and the finale is unsatisfying. AA games tend to be judged on a case-by-case basis as well as the entire game, and AJ just didn't have a lot of good ones. still worth playing tho

The main cast were great but the supporting cast were bad. With the exception of Klav, who was bad in the main cast. Apart from 4-1 and the flashback part of 4-4, it was badly written.

Shoehorning Wright and making him lose his job just to make him relevant to the story they had. Dual Destinies could have been the game where Apollo and Wright meet, and Poly becomes his apprentice. Then Spirit of Justice, where Apollo grows up, Athena is introduced, and Apollo leaves at the end.

Awesome, i'll stick with it then.

Also

>killing off Mia Fey almost instantly

Well fuck you too Capcom.

Pretty much the same problem all the Phoenix Wright games have: Every class except the last case is shit and irrelevant.

Where are you at?
Also be aware that all games except the two Japanese-only ones are at this point not really considered to be spoilers any more in these threads

what a dumb thing to say

>hyping up Kristoph as some kind of twisted villain when all he did was kill some random dude because he was pissed
>case 2
>case 3 while kind of necessary for the plot (Lamiroir) was fucking awful and Machi being the defendant made no sense at all
>case 4 was a convoluted mess, mason system was confusing and phoenix travels back in time (?)
>should have been 5 cases like the rest of the series
>Apollo was bland as fuck
>hobo Phoenix was an asshole
>Klavier was okay I guess but that good of a prosecutor
The only good thing about this game is the first case, which is one of the best of the series and would be even better if the rest of the game's plot wasn't shit, once you learn Kristoph's motive he becomes lame.

Its one of the best in the whole series.
Say about the overall story and characters what you will, but the individual case writing as well as the courtroom logic was one of the best and most coherent through all games.

Most AA games are infuriatingly nonsensical at one point, but AJ managed to keep most of the stupidity in check.

The second game is notoriously bad in that regard, so prepare for even more trial and error.
AA's quality is often about the courtroom logic and the first trilogy throws that around like its juggling, way too many times. Especially the second game jumps around between moments where the game doesn't want you to think at all, just follow orders, and moments where you have no choice but to trial and error your way through because you can't follow what it wants, or you know what it wants, but don't know hot to give it.

I like the first case. It sets up the mood and characters pretty well. Too bad the rest of the game doesn't hold a candle to it.

Duude, this could've been so good

>AJ
>introduce Apollo, have him have his own game with Trucy as an assistant
>at the end, take down Kristoph and meet Phoenix

>DD
>Apollo is the protagonist for the most part, they meet Athena in either 5-3 as a school graduate or in 5-4, but you don't get to play as her

>SoJ
>Play as Athena and Apollo, Apollo's backstory finishes, and he leaves

Problem is of course that the unofficial Apollo trilogy was never planned out that way.

Don't worry too much about Mia. Also stop reading this thread right now because this series is terrible to talk about on Sup Forums, you're gonna get spoilers up the ass.

The only bad case in that regard in 2 is the third

Case 2 and 3 are bad.
Apollo is a poor man's Phoenix.
Actual Phoenix becomes a completely different character and is now this cryptic secretive bum.
Tracey's panties were not shimapan.
Apollo's hair.

This actually.

Reminder that DGS's first two cases have been translated and are playable

>The court room scenes/solutions are obtuse as fuck
I had similar qualms, also it's a bit spergy, but it bugged me endlessly how sloppy a lot of legal shit was in regards to chain of custody, tampering with evidence, tampering with witnesses, trespassing, literal breaking and entering, crime scenes etc and I mean, that's fine, it's a game, but neither the game nor the characters seemed to be self aware which would have at least made it funny, or interesting if they knew they were crossing a line, instead they devs just did whatever because it was convenient. It almost feels like the game would have worked better as a detective game where you investigate and prepare evidence for a case and the courtroom scenes played out on their own and just reflected how well you'd gathered evidence.

Worst main prosecutor
Worst main character
Worst sidekick loli
Worst main villain
Worst side villain
Worst music
Worst cases
Worst overarching plot
Worst character design
Worst gimmick mechanic (Perceive sucks dick and you know it)
Actively ruined older, better characters with massive personality changes
Regressed in terms of gameplay compared to Rise From The Ashes

Pretty much everything that could go wrong did. They should have retconned AA4 entirely instead of spending two games trying to bandaid over it.

And fuck these are good.

How can one man have such shit taste?

The last case felt like it was trying too hard.

>Worst main prosecutor
Nahyuta
>Worst main character
Athena
>Worst sidekick loli
Kay
>Worst main villain
Ga'ran
>Worst side villain
Coachen
>Worst music
AA5
>Worst cases
AAI
>Worst overarching plot
AAI
>Worst character design
AA6

You're so fucking retarded it hurts.

Anyone have any instructions on how to get started on this shit? I never hacked my 3DS and it's kind of confusing what homebrew I should pick

Nothing. What went wrong is that they actually made Phoenix a thing again afterwards because people were crying "muh mc!" which fucked the latter two games.

Literally the only AA game that this applies to is JFA.
>AA had an okay first case, it was the first game so all it needed to do was introduce us to Phoenix and the game mechanics
>T&T case is one of the best, you get to defend young Phoenix as Mia, they introduce Dahlia and you cuck Payne out of his hair
>AJ's is the best first case in the series
>AAI1's is okay but the rest of the game is awful
>AAI2's is amazing like every other case in the game
>AA5's was good
>AA6's was great and the agressive foreign atmosphere was awesome

his opinions are awful but so are yours
>coachen
come on

ppfffthahaha
dont bother

6-1 was junk

3ds.guide/
once you're done with this the rest is easy, download the game and either the patch itself or a patch .cia which is even simpler, you can find that from 3dsiso

fuck's your problem?

AAI's final case just drags on too long. You've nailed that fucker ten times already yet it keeps going on with like a trillion monologues about the nature of justice and having to step outside the law to blah blah blah.

I've only just completed the second case, but the whole thing felt like an absolute mess.

First case was simple, but solid, and a nice introduction to the gameplay/mechanics. But the second case just felt like a "yeah, whatever, I guess i'm just along for the ride and hope I can randomly trigger a tangential line of questioning by using the right item at the right time" sorta deal.

I mean it wasn't game breaking, but if it's going to devolve into trial and error, i'd really rather just watch it play out.

EXTRATERRITORIAL RIGHTS
BITCHES

>trial and error
it's not though. Most of them are pretty easy to figure out. You can easily understand what you supposed to do by checking the evidences

The day final day of last case sucked. Apollo didn't do shit and phoenix and klavier did everything for him.

1 has the only good pacing in the series, and even they realized they fucked up by making case 1 a shitty tutorial (DS' s 5 serves as a fourth case in difficulty and character development despite being the fifth you play, serving as an extension and progression to the dynamic between Feen and Miles in 1-3 and a bridge between their 1-3 dynamic and 2-4).

T&T > AAI2 > AA > SoJ > DD > AAI > AJ > JFA

>Apollo didn't do shit and phoenix and klavier did everything for him.

It's funny that JFA is considered among the worst games in the series yet has one of the best cases overall....... but there is turnabout big top

Let's watch that tape again

>You can easily understand what you supposed to do by checking the evidences

Sure, it's easy enough to understand what pertinent information the evidence contains, the problem lies in trying to figure out when the game wants/will allow you to use it and that can be INCREDIBLY obtuse.

3 was a bit messy due to the jumping around and attempts to tie up loose ends, but otherwise I can agree with this. 3 and I2 had the highest points while 1 was a more balanced, self-contained experience.

>SoJ finally fucking features Maya again
>barely even shows up, goes through her usual rigamarole of murder accusation again
Being Maya is suffering.

>tfw you liked Big Top (aside from the investigations) but hated Kurain more than any other case, leaving your opinion of JFA the same as everyone else's.

I would watch it only for Trudy's lewdness in SoJ.

i'm sorry but can we watch that tape again, just one more time?

They didn't commit to developing their characters and advancing the narrative in the following games, also the cases were pretty shit. Mechanics were innovative for the time though.

He's right. As soon as Vera collapses, every piece of information is given to him on a silver platter.

I hate Kurain because I played JFA on emulator but kept losing my saves and just never got past case 2.

The mystery VN scene is suffering.

Every series gets a good game, a sequel or two that's not entirely an improvement, and then it all goes to hell... or you start shit, like DanganRonpa.

>The court room scenes/solutions are obtuse as fuck and it honestly just feels like trial and error a lot of the time

Yup, welcome to Ace Attorney. Apart from the first case where you could deduce the culprit right away with the evidence provided if you combed though it, every proceeding case from then on is just ass pulls.

>Every series gets a good game, a sequel or two that's not entirely an improvement, and then it all goes to hell... or you start shit, like DanganRonpa.
999.txt

I'd rate it higher than dual destinies

>DS' s 5 serves as a fourth case in difficulty and character development despite being the fifth you play, serving as an extension and progression to the dynamic between Feen and Miles in 1-3 and a bridge between their 1-3 dynamic and 2-4

Except 1-5 destroys all of Edgeworth's character development through the rest of 1 by turning him from a vicious prosecutor who forged evidence in order to win by any means to "good guy all along" who never forged evidence but was rather the victim of a wrong-place-wrong-time misunderstanding that started all those nasty rumors.

Yep.
I can't entirely blame Uchi for VLR's faults (Or even all of ZTD's), but god damn. He used all his A material in one go.

Honestly if you're playing Ace Attorney for the gripping mysteries it probably isn't the series for you. It's more about the characters and the drama between them. It's just a neat setting.

Gotta pander to those fujos. Only reason Phoenix and Maya haven't settled down yet.

It's been years and I forgot. My bad.

999 might have had better writing than VLR but, the former wasn't fun the "play" at all.

>have to replay the entire game if you wanna try to get a different ending
atleast give me a skip room option if i already did it before.

>Apollo is a good character
Not in this game. I can't self-insert as someone who is dumb enough to go on Klavier-fanboy mode several times during trials when that prosecutor technically doesn't offer sound counter arguments.
AA5/6 may flesh out Apollo's character but in this game, he's absolutely boring. I mean, if I want to play as a bumbling genius attorney with wacky logic, I've got Phoenix; if I want to use logic to present my claims, I've got Edgeworth. Apollo doesn't have a definite "style" going on for him.

>Most AA games are infuriatingly nonsensical at one point, but AJ managed to keep most of the stupidity in check.
Funnily enough, the point in Phoenix's games is that you play him to have fun with his antics in the courtroom because zany logic goes hand in hand with his character. Apollo isn't. He's a straightlaced greenhorn so the game execution has to operate in a way befitting him. And then Case 3 happens.

VLR was better than 999

It's all good my dude. I really like 1-5 for the case itself and the characters, I just wish it didn't take a huge dump all over the character arc Edgeworth had through the rest of the game.

Just learn Japanese

Actually the newest patch supports digital versions too. In addition even the first one was quickly patched for digital by others at 3dsiso.
I don't know about Citra though since I own the console

VLR had ALTERNATIVE puzzle solutions. That's crazy.

God, I want to fuck Maki-roll so much.

I agree.

Edgeworth NEVER forge evidence.
There were baseless rumors, obviously because 1.He's a prolific prosecutor 2. He's a disciple of Manfred von Karma

i loved the idea, at the same time

>getting these alternative solutions still means you couldn't progress threw the room unless you did it normally, i had this happen to me afew times where i'd somehow figure out the other way before the intended way
>your rewarded with information that, if you decide to look at it, spoils you with shit you don't actually find out in the story until alot later
>ultimately all these golden files mean nothing because apparently the ending that requires all of them is meta fiction.

honestly people can complain about Danganronpa, but i'd say zero escape got a far worse treatment.

>Guitar, Guitar

No, the another time end was retconned to be metafiction to damage control ZTD

The puzzles are so goddamn easy I consider it a book, not a game. And it's a pretty good book.

VLR's writing is a lot weaker in most aspects, from setting to dialogue to player expectation management, and I feel like I wasted more time watching the map animations and going through unskippable permutations of the same dialogue than blazing through already completed "puzzles."

It also had glitches and bugs ahoy. I got the relatively rare one where the Archives puzzle will not solve because of some kind of weird internal flag confusion, had to redo the room three times before it finally registered.

You could skip them

yeah thats what i mean, i felt accomplished when i found all the thingy's in VLR, in hindsight i'm not sure why i bothered. I still liked ZTD don't get me wrong, but wow i'd be lying if i said the games didn't get worse in writing quality as they went on.

not in the original DS version, you could fast forward the text but you still had to do the puzzles.

Almost done with vlr, played 999 right before it. Holy shit the voice acting was 100% better in 999. In vlr it seems like all the VAs didnt want to be there. Al the lack of Sigma having a vlice was an odd choice.

>Guy writes and directs game, does much better in West than East.
>Give him another try, push for things to be more light poppy and anime to attract Japanese, results are the same.
>Deny a sequel, change mind when West begs for it.
>Cater to them and...demand heavy rewrites.

I'm convinced the higher-ups at Chun (and ESPECIALLY Spike) are retarded. Not that ZTD would have been great anyway, but still. Thank fuck we're not getting a fourth one (I swear to Christ if Junpei or Akane is in the new Uchi game).

999 was dubbed for the re-release nearly 5 years later. On DS it was all blips.

I prefer the blips, but there's no option to turn their volume down on DS, which sucks. Also, you should look up the DS version of the finale. It's much better.

What are you talking about?
The dub in VLR was wonderful.

This isn't completely related, but I played Danganronpa (the first game) because I heard the third game was good and I didn't want to start with that.

Maybe I'm spoiled by 999 and AA, but fuck, this shit was so incredibly mediocre, and I'm so incredibly tired of that Japanese edgy pseudo-philosophical bullshit.
>HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE PRISONER'S DILEMMA
YES, FUCK OFF

It wasn't bad, just incredibly derivative and apart from the comics you make to show what the case was (which was neat), the court sections kind of sucks because they sapped the difficulty of finding contradictions and refitted it with some shitty mini-games.

ZE and DR are spearheaded by buddies.
VLR does a better version of DR's gimmicks and DR2 improves itself by taking a few cues from 999.

That said, all three are worse than the better Shu Takumi and Uchikoshi games (AA/GT, ZE). It's more popular because it's loud and extravagant and simple minded.

DR1 is entry-tier VN and extremely easy if you're already a veteran in mystery games and so.
Besides that, the first game is mediocre by itself. DR2 and V3 are miles better.

Dangan Ronpa 1 is a good premise gone horribly wrong. 2 and 3 copy Zero Escape's homework, making them better but still trashy.

Oh really? I guess that explains a lot, but also made me completely guess DR's entire plot from pretty much the start, because the games are incredibly similar except DR has pretty much no likeable characters whatsoever.

So you guys recommend going into the sequels? Cool, I'll do that then.

DR focuses more on the characters and class trials rather than the story.
Just don't take the games seriously.

But I hated pretty much every character in the first game, they were walking tropes except like two and either retarded or plain assholes

The cases themselves kind of start off badly (it's hilarious to see a MESSAGE WRITTEN IN BLOOD be the actual solution after playing AA) but third and fourth cases are pretty good.

If you played 999 and VLR already, be prepared to feel deja vu hard.

Cases get far better (and worse).
Characters become even thinner cardboard (Yes really) where the appeal is just how disgustingly one dimensional they are.

Should've made the first case the last case.

I would've much preferred a game where I play as Apollo at this new workplace with Gavin being my mentor throughout, with hints of Phoenix Wright being mentioned here and there but mostly a mystery until it turns out he is my client in the final case, and teaches me the whole truth about Gavin until I have to take him down in court.

Call me when everythings done. Not gonna bother eith unfinished shit that will just leave me hanging.