Admit it, he's right

Admit it, he's right

I only read the title, but yes.

...

You stlll jack off with cartoon underage girls -- matt

same

t. I've only played Final Fantasy and Pokemon and think I'm an expert on JRPGs

Why are people who dislike jrpgs and never play them so retardedly vocal about it?

Oh god this is so terrible. You can literally smell the last D&D session on that guy's post.
No, nobody cares for character creation and multiple endings, because we actually have a life. We just care for good entertainment. Pull that Ian Livingstone book out of your ass.

I disagree, actually.

Because they have to desperately deny they like anything japanese but still play dark souls and Mario anyway.

any game that has both

>random encounters
>experience points

should immediatly be thrown to the trash

>fucking virgin losers. This is Sup Forums's Sup Forums board, and we actually have lives over here!

I kinda liked how Pokemon cuts most of the grinding in recent games.

yeah i like how theyre barely games and just constantly push you where to go and distract you from how hollow the game is with boring ass constant cutscenes

>In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.

It's just underage who've played two or three mainstream JRPGs and think they've seen everything. As evidenced by someone screenshotting a fucking gamefaqs post.

The only one who should be thrown into the trash is you as a baby

No, he's wrong. He's bad at optimizing his characters, which he needs to make up by grinding. A lot of rpgs can be beaten in sub-10 hours when the player knows how to maximize the characters and understands team synergy.

50 hours is the absolute longest a video game should be. If you can't complete all the story content in a game within 50 hours then that game is objectively shittily paced and not worth anyone's time. 25-30 hours is the ideal length for an RPG.

...

This. Grinding is your punishment for being shit at the game 99% of the time.

His first point is spot on. The story length and gameplay length of jRPGs often doesn't match up. So you end up with a game that hammers it's basic theme at you over and over again.

Grinding can be fun or unfun, it all depends on the game. I loved grinding in Persona 5, for example.

I get what he's trying to say, but I'd argue that overlevelling is there solely so that you can still beat the game if you suck. Obviously there are some bad games where you mathematically need to be a certain level in order to beat a boss, and there's no skill or strategy to it, but good jRPGs avoid that.

I think the basic problem with jRPGs is that there are certain things about the genre that suck, like mandatory grinding, dumb character designs, and anime plot tropes, that will never go away even though everyone hates them.

WRPGs are honestly trash
The only good ones came out years ago.

I think by grinding he means the dozens of easy, repetitive trash encounters in every area

If you can beat any Tales games without grinding, then you're a god among men

t. lacks patience/attention span

>play chrono cross
>literally can't grind even if you wanted to because you only level up from bosses

I like newer JRPGs but can't stand newer WRPGs. Different people, different tastes.

JRPGs are fucking shovelware

>reddit spacing
Opinion discarded

>ike mandatory grinding, dumb character designs, and anime plot tropes
DQ7 has none of these.

Imagine this scenario.

>Some guys' shooting hoops in his back yard. It's braindead repetitive but he's enjoying himself and getting a little better with every shot.
>Guys from the local basketball team tell him he'd be better off watching them play on TV and getting out of doing any sort of sports activity

I can take the
>grinding
I got time
>shit story
I can take it
>up and down difficulty
Just grind bro
My BIG problem with jrpg is that I can't take the >cringe characters
Something that is common in Japanese games.
This is why I don't play Japanese games

Well at least it's not a food analogy

i think he misunderstands the genre. the stories are usually bad though, but don't most people skip most of the dialog?

that'd be funny if that were the principal difference between people who loath and like jrpgs, the loathers didn't want to skip any dialog.

Paper Mario is the best JRPG

You forgot the part where the guy practicing says that by shooting free throws for over a hundred hours he's actually playing an intense game of basketball and screams autistically at anyone who says that maybe his game would be improved if he tried something different.

I like Jrpgs and I don't skip all the dialogue.

>"Admit it-"
shift click

Super Paper Mario was the best game in the series except for the gameplay.

Don't forget Zelda. I know a few people personally who don't consider zelda or dark souls jrpg because they like it.

That's retarded

/thread

Nah, it's just that Amerimutts are too brainless to understand JRPGs.

I once loved FPS, but now I despise them.

Story is a major component. Used to be that FPS had the story going on throughout shooting shit while having interesting level design. Now you're constantly getting interrupted with fucking cutscenes where your hands are tied and every level is just a straight corridor.

They're all built for PvP nowadays anyway. Long gone are the times when you could get an FPS and at least enjoy some singleplayer with a fun premise, shit to shoot and sometimes head online to fuck around. Now if you're not online playing against other people you may as well throw the game in the dumpster. The devs certainly don't give you a chance; they don't give a fuck about enemy placement, AI or making a fulfilling, interesting single player campaign.

And honestly, nowadays online FPS is just a 'press x button while we autoaim for you' simulator.

If you like FPS, you may as well just watch war footage and leave videogames alone.

The thing about JRPGs is that autists get stupidly attached to them since they are long and naturally you get attached to things you spent a lot of time on. So even if they are bad games autists will defend them to the death since they have such fond memories of the world and the characters.

There were so many threads and posts on Sup Forums about Persona 5 and Xenoblade 2 that said "I have spent 100 hours in this game, it's so good".

>gamefaqs
>posting someone else's opinion
>that shitty alternative at the end of the post

All that aside, I have to agree. I was starting to feel that way last year and persona 5 put the nail in the coffin for me. There's just too much padding and repetitiveness to JRPGs.

The reason no one bothers to point this out is because people only care about getting their bang for their buck and what easier way to tell that than by checking the average playtime.

Only way I can enjoy JRPGs now is with EXP multipliers, that way I can skip 90% of the trash mobs I've already fought.

this

There's a time in my life where I would've agreed with him but the simple reality is that all of the games I enjoyed the most in 2017 were Japanese RPGs. Sure, I had big problems with all of them but they were meaty experiences that kept me engaged from start to finish, as opposed to many AAA western releases this year where I might as well have just watched a movie. I'm wary of using the term JRPG because people seem to confine that to meaning "Final Fantasy" like games , like this guy here:

As for OP's post, he invokes low skill requirements as a reason for JRPGs being bad, but then proceeds to use a bunch of Western games that aren't RPGs at all to make his point, which is really weird and dishonest. Fallout 4 takes more skill than Persona 5 I guess, but there's not much in it, and personally I don't seek out RPGs when I'm looking for a skill intensive experience. This applies to both Western and Japanese RPGs.

Imagine this scenario.

>Some guys' eating cereal in his back yard. It's braindead flavorless but he's enjoying himself and getting better nutrition with every bite.
>Guys from the local McDonalds team tell him he'd be better off eating their burgers in his house and getting out of eating anything healthy

Recent grind was actually enjoyble. Like personas or xenoblade blades.

>le mash X meme
How many games does this actually apply to? Are you telling me some people are so stupid they actually just grind until they can kill everything with attack commands instead of using some sort of strategy?

I'll be honest, the only JRPG series I can still stomach is SMT and Persona.

Everything else feels like bland weebshit that you have to like anime to enjoy.

tl;dr lol

Are you also a walking contradiction?

I think he's right in some places. Think about this: grinding is considered bad player behavior, right? You're overleveling just to beat the whole game without trying, correct? Well, why would the game encourage it with random battles that take forever to run from? Far as I know, 99% of RPGs have this issue. Give me super repels and moogle charms from the start so I don't have to deal with that crap. Items that give zero EXP at the end of battle aren't helping the issue since that just means I gain nothing from being dragged into an encounter.

That's the problem with RPGs. They shove too much filler in your face. If you took out random enemy encounters, RPGs would be 90 hours shorter and probably wouldn't exceed the length of your average call of duty campaign.

On another level, being story heavy is in itself cancerous, since it means the gameplay will be neutered for the sake of "muh artistic immersive experience." More often than not they'll even forego important gameplay conventions just to screw you over plot-wise.

>you didn't unequip Aeris, Tellah and whatever other random guest party members before they died? Hah, tough luck, you lose every single item they had

I mean how am I supposed to know that beforehand? It encourages save scumming, and that's never pleasant. I have a hundred other gripes with this dumpster fire of a genre, but those are the big ones.

Grinding is fun as long as the rewards for doing it aren't tied to luck.

ITT: people who have only played mainline jRPGs that issue next to no challenge
People who think jRPGs can't be legitimately difficult have absolutely zero grasp on the genre and have not delved into it at all. There are plenty of titles that can and will slap your shit to kingdom come if you try to 'auto battle.'

You're on the wrong board, kid.

>you didn't unequip Aeris, Tellah and whatever other random guest party members before they died? Hah, tough luck, you lose every single item they had

So? Who the fuck cares? Is the game now unbeatable? No. It's a mild inconvenience that would bother only the most autistic.

I wish there was another term for this. Too many people immediately assume grinding = extra 'training' you don't need to do, when it could also simply mean doing a repetitive action/event.

A lot of the times this just depends on the level system (I absolutely despise this progression system in games), how much exp you earn and how many enemies you have to face. Some RPGs make it so that you need to face a retarded amount enemies to level up. And no matter how "skilled" you are at optimizing your character, the level system ensures it'll be impossible to move forward or at the very least it'll make the battles extremely slow and drawn out. And even at the end of it those necessary battles most likely won't provide you with sufficient exp.

I do prefer games with level scaling because it's more risk/reward but that doesn't change how playing that way will make the battles tediously long.

If you gave them a good item, then yes it's lost forever.

>hurr durr autism
Hey buddy, that's something I care about in a game, when I'm punished because the story said so.the story doesn't dictate my game. If it does, it's a bad game.

>Persona
>not bland weebshit

>There were so many threads and posts on Sup Forums about Persona 5 and Xenoblade 2 that said "I have spent 100 hours in this game, it's so good".

So your argument is that they only *think* they enjoyed those games because they spent 100 hours in them? Isn't the opposite more likely to be true? That they spent 100 hours on them precisely because they enjoyed them?

Padding?

He is wrong but he himself tells the truth in his posts. The problems is not with genre, but rather, how unoriginal products of that genre have become.
If the problem was with the genre itself, there would be no good titles, but there are. There are some that are fucking amazing actually, and that have stimulated the imagination of millions.
The problem are not Jrpgs, but rather, Japan itself, that over the years has been producing products of lower and lower quality.
In the same way current Square-Enix doesn't hold a candle to the creativity and talent that Square OR Enix had during the 90s, current Japan is completely embarrassing compared to what it produced during the 90s.
This is a problem that even the best minds of Japan recognize and do not know how to solve

What was the last jrpg you actually played then.

Random encounters on your journey from town A to town B isn't grinding. It's playing the fucking game. Grinding is going out for the sole purpose of gaining extra levels/money/resources/whatever.

>If you gave them a good item, then yes it's lost forever.

And why is this such an issue to you? Either get a new one or get something better later on; there's always something better.

>there's always something better
That is where you are mistaken.

The problem with that analogy is most JRPGs don't actually use "skill" in that sense (unless it were an ARPG). Like say you encounter an enemy the first time and figure out the optimal strategy to go about killing that enemy. Using that strategy the first time vs the hundredth time will be the same. You're not getting "a little better" each time.

I don't get why some people don't see it.

Persona doesn't feel like the typical shite. It doesn't have characters with wacky colored hairdos, googly eyes, or lame humor.

Nor does it have character design like pic related.

It doesn't feel at all like the typical anime shlock.

>Admit it, he's right
he's half right, jrpgs used to be good, now the producers just go for all the safe and tested things and end up making pasta games. same thing that happened with the anime industry in the 80s that resulted in Anno making NGE, a middle finger to both the industry and the virgins that supported it.

>It doesn't have characters with wacky colored hairdos, googly eyes, or lame humor.

Because waifutrash is the weebest thing out there

RPG in general are a loser's genre though

Overall right but it’s not like Land of the livid Dead is hard than SMT Nocturne

You don't have to defend your weebshit by throwing other weebshit under the bus.

>when I'm punished because the story said so.the story doesn't dictate my game.

You didn't make the game. Other people did. The game developers literally designed the game to inconvenience you in some ways, not be a walk in the fucking park. Yes, you SHOULD feel inconvenienced if a party member literally dies in the game's story, just as you should feel inconvenienced if the game developers decided arbitrarily that your FPS should take place in Afghanistan rather than Canada during peace time.

Imagine applying this to any other genre. "Oh shit I was killed by the guy standing around a corner that's bullshit how could I know they were there. If I did I could've healed up before moving forward and not have to start the level over."

I think most JRPGs have absolute shit gameplay but a lot of people seem to like them so who cares? Its not like Im being forced to play these titles.

>In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.

This is all true but it only applies if you consider JRPG to mean "final fantasy like" games and not Japanese RPGs in general.

But if we want to look a little closer at this argument, we could apply it to almost anything. Killing grunt enemies in almost any genre is a braindead affair, it's just a little more obvious in JRPGs.

If I'm seeking out a true skill based experience that will really test my brain I'll almost always go for a multiplayer game.

It's Sup Forums more than anything. On Sup Forums cancer like "manime" retards get called out because it's really obvious when someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

It's not a taste problem, it's a knowledge and arrogance one.

>Imagine applying this to any other genre. "Oh shit I was killed by the guy standing around a corner that's bullshit how could I know they were there. If I did I could've healed up before moving forward and not have to start the level over."
you mean like /ourguy/ DSP does all the time? fuck off kiwifarms faggot

Not him, but it doesn't matter what you call it. 9 times out of 10 going through every encounter from Town A to Town B will have you be approaching the same enemies with the same strategy over and over again. Maybe with slight variations. That's not fun, it's just there to kill your time and make you think "wow I got my bang for my buck with this game".

>Oh shit I was killed by the guy standing around a corner that's bullshit how could I know they were there
That's a legitimate complaint. Games should never inconvenience you without giving some sort of opportunity. Otherwise it's the game's fault, not the player's, and that should never happen, because the point of a game is to entertain the player testing his skills, not his patience.
Putting a guy in a corner who you cannot possibly see on your first playthrough and who WILL kill you at least once unless you know before is bad design because there's nothing the player can do. And that's different from removing items like by killing a character so your comparison's bad too.

Don't worry user, you are actually right, most people here are just blinded by Persona's popularity in the west. It is most definitely atypical when it comes to japanese games. Persona 5 is actually considered to be controversial in Japan because it's too political. To be clear, I'm not saying that makes it good(the political shit is hamfisted as fuck imo), but it's definitely an outlier when it comes to JRPG's.

the first and last paragraph is pure autismo
>I despise JRPGs
>if you like JRPGs you'd be better off getting out of videogames and spending your time reading "choose your adventure" story books
everything between that makes sense tho.

It means people with only surface level knowledge think they know everything.

Fighting the same trash mobs over and over again is "playing the fucking game"? And what happens when the encounter rate is too high, making a trip between towns utterly miserable? What happens when I'm overleveled for the next 5 bosses and I didn't even try to get more EXP? How am I supposed to mitigate that when I can't even run from half the battles, or when I do run I get right back into a battle 5 seconds later?

shucks, I'm playing through Skies of Arcadia right now, and the original was an unplayable mess, so much so that they had to re-release it on the gamecube, toning down the encounter rate so the game wouldn't be so damn easy.

3d platformers exist so no.

I like persona but come on. Did you read your post before sending it?

that's a very shitty game then

>you telling me jumping on these same goombas and koopas all the time is "playing the fucking game"? All the changes is their colors!

It's more obvious in JRPGs because it's a magnitude more time consuming than in other genres.

I should only feel inconvenienced if it's an error on my part. If it's something I can't help, and I get punished anyway, it feels tedious and sometimes unfair. For example, if all my party members die and it's been 5 hours since I last saved, that's my fault because I wasn't cautious, I didn't prepare, I didn't analyze the threat infront of me. On the inverse, when my party member dies and takes away all my good items, how was I supposed to see that coming?

>It is most definitely atypical when it comes to japanese games
It's a dating sim crossed with a jrpg.
Like come the fuck on bro.

He's right though and it kind of annoys me that people are denying it. If you can't see that Persona 5 is stylistically distinct from most JRPGs/anime you are literally blind.

>Loves JRPGs
>Despises grinding.

>game from 1985 you can finish in a few minutes and move on vs 2017 game you spend 500+hours without even reaching anything but higher numbers

You don't have 50 between every platform