If getting the Snake ranking requires zero kills, what is his canon kill count?

If getting the Snake ranking requires zero kills, what is his canon kill count?

My general understanding is that Snake doesn't kill unnecessarily, but he doesn't hold back against bosses. Remember, the entire point of Solo Sneaking Missions is to get in, do what needs to be done and get out without anyone knowing you're there. I know it usually doesn't work out that way, but given the nature of his assignments, it's safe to say that Snake does his best to just sneak by without anyone noticing.

Do note that in the beginning of the Big Shell chapter in MGS2, when you get to the elevator room, all the guards are simply knocked out without a single one of them dead. So he probably does take down enemies from time to time, but probably won't kill them if he feels he doesn't have to. At the same time, though, he's no pacifist. He doesn't have a no-kill policy so if he feels he needs to kill in order to most efficiently pull off his job, then he'll do so.

I'm also generally gonna assume that in full combat scenarios like in the Frog fight at the beginning of MGS4, he just kills as needed. There's no real point in holding back in a scenario like that, since it's not like Meryl's group are gonna let them live. Though I'd also assume that he didn't go out of his way to kill the B&Bs in their Beauty stages, since there's really no reason to. By that point, he kinda has the upper hand.

Snake killed people until the end of Metal Gear Solid 1, when liquid fucked with his mind.
In MGS2 and MGS4, he try to avoid killing but isn't afraid of doing it.

Remember every time he canonically gets into a shootout/kills a boss? All those times plus an unknowable amount from whatever other bullshit he did prior to metal gear.

He kills in every game. But as stated, the entire point of a Solo Sneaking Mission is to try and get through everything undetected. Killing is basically considered to be a last resort and a compromise at best. Also, he does occasionally have the option to knock people out, as he does multiple times.

>doing a no kill run on MGS2 Tanker
>final arc cutscenes shows Solid blasting ruskies with FAMAs

Solid will never be a pacifist and tranq/cqc his way to victory.

Did you forget the part where he shoots all the mercs with the USP right before the commander's speech?

The tanker you played was You playing as Raiden doing a VR mission of the Tanker as Solid Snake. What you see in the cutscenes later is what really happened on the Tanker.

No it wasn't. Raiden didn't even seem to know about Ocelot. Also, if that really was the case, then Raiden would have known for a fact that it wasn't Snake who sunk that tanker. Basically, the fact that he didn't know anything at all about Ocelot's involvement would prove that the Tanker mission we played through wasn't necessarily the one who experienced in VR.

>There's no right part in murder. Not ever.
MGS2 Snake kills for the greater good (ie killing a bunch of tengu mercs on his way to save the world from nuclear armageddon) but he acknowledges it as still morally 'wrong'. He is a man of multitudes.

This.

>Raiden literally says in game that he's done VR of the tanker mission
>Snake literally says that it didn't cover everything that happened

Right. So the tanker mission we played through was the real deal, and the tanker mission VR that Raiden experienced omitted many key details, such as Ocelot's involvement in the whole affair.

>Solid will never be a pacifist and tranq/cqc his way to victory.

Then why is he codenamed Snake? Same question for Grey Fox.

Because it sounds cool.

everyone's codenamed was *adjective* animal

4

>zero kills
Isn't that impossible, though?

If he isn't supposed to kill anyone than why does he have weapons training? That's right.

Snake is someone who can only feel alive in the midst of battle, but he's never actually enjoyed killing. When someone dies, he does tend to display regret. He's always just viewed it as a necessary evil, and in fact, his character evolves subtly in the course of MGS1. In the middle of MGS1, Snake describes his fight to the death with Grey Fox as a "sport" to Naomi. But later on, when he confronts Raven, he angrily exclaims that "violence isn't a sport".

Snake is an unfortunate man who can only thrive in battle, but genuinely understands that it will inevitably lead to tragedy. He enjoys battle, but hates the fact that he does so. He only feels alive when facing death head on, but displays a somber expression at the end result, when people lie dead. At times, he even displays mild horror and excessive violence and death, as much as someone like him is capable of showing. He's a contradictory human being who finds violence both enjoyable and deeply regrettable. Unlike Big Boss and Liquid, Snake never fully embraced his bloodthirsty and violent nature. He tried to walk away from it several times, but when he realized that he'd never truly escape it, he decided to become a necessary evil. He didn't fight for the sake of fighting, because he genuinely feels that violence is not a game, but he tried to find reasons to fight. In the end, what he decided to fight for were his friends, their hopes, their ideals, and the future of the next generation. Perhaps it was hypocrisy, but he tried his best to come to terms with who he was.

>At the same time, though, he's no pacifist. He doesn't have a no-kill policy so if he feels he needs to kill in order to most efficiently pull off his job, then he'll do so.
Where do you get that from?

But you can't get the Snake or Fox rankings unless you do a pacifist run

From the fact that he kills multiple times and is always shown brandishing a lethal weapon in cutscenes. From the fact that he did, in fact, kill every boss in MGS and is actually shown shooting normal firearms in a few cutscenes in MGS4. Snake isn't stupid. He'll try to avoid killing, or rather, he'll try to avoid situations that could lead to killing, but things never turn out that ideally.

Not the same guy but he does say that he has killed a lot of people already when monologuing to mantis

Thisthisthisthis.

pretty fucking high after the final rush in MGS2. Snake mows down so many fucking ninjas
>b-b-but it was a simulation
doesn't cut it anymore, he killed them for real

You do realize he was assigned the codename right? He didn’t earn it during the Missions.

He got it after he graduated the foxhound training that Miller and Big Boss put him through. Fox on the otherhand was given it because Big Boss trusted him the most

>tfw Metal Gear Solid GBC was all a VR mission for Raiden.

It must be really awful, to find what your realisation is and that that something is so wrong and bad.

I still have to play Ghost Babel.

>Admit it snake, You enjoy all the killing!

Canonically, he had to have killed at least a few guys unecessarily for this to make sense


On a side note how the fuck does it make sense that Liquid has all the "dominant" big boss genes if solid looks and sounds exactly like him

I think those kinds of scenarios are rare. It's either do or die. Kill or be killed. But the entire point of SSM is to try to get through without confrontations or needless killing. Killing leaves behind evidence, after all.

very nice

This. If anything the tranq gun is non canon since he never uses it in cutscenes and a lot of situations could have been solved by making some monologuing dipshit take a nap

Because Kojima doesn't know how genetics works.

They probably did in one of their missions in FOX-HOUND, then just killed for fun afterwards

He never killed for fun.

He only kills when necessary.

Literally never been proof for this stupid theory

Aktschually if you do Tanker-Plant, Raiden says
>I've completed over 300 missions in VR. I feel like some sort of legendary mercenary.
If you do Tanker and Plant individually, Campbell says:
>This will be your first sneaking mission.

It was later retconned by saying Liquid failed biology.

you have it completely backwards. the cutscenes during the plant chapter are from the VR mission, that's why everything is blue and makes snake out to look like a terrorist with an assault rifle

the tanker you played was the real deal

close but no cigar. if you do tanker-plant, it assumes you are a real fan and have played metal gear solid vr missions. if you do it individually, it assumes you skip the tanker chapter because you are a newbie and mgs2 is your first metal gear game

Then it was reverse retconned because they talk about that shit in the dumb plot filler tapes you get at the end of phantom pain

>Why didn't they both just get all his genes, the dominant ones would still float to the top. What is he pure rna?

>if you do tanker-plant, it assumes you are a real fan and have played metal gear solid vr missions. if you do it individually, it assumes you skip the tanker chapter because you are a newbie and mgs2 is your first metal gear game
What the fuck? Occam's razor, man. What is with that leap in logic that playing tanker and then plant the game would assume you were a newbie? Can you elaborate?

>it assumes you skip the tanker chapter because you are a newbie and mgs2 is your first metal gear game
It would make no sense to skip the tutorial if you're a newbie.

>leap in logic
the leap in logic is how someone could think tanker = 300 vr missions (the exact same number of missions as the mgs1 vr missions disc). if you play tanker and then plant, the game doesn't check if you played tanker when that conversation comes up. it just assumes you went straight into plant, because it would be retarded to do it segmented when you intended to play both anyway

haha, that's funny user. that's like saying ground zeroes is the tutorial for tpp. the tanker is not the tutorial, it's more difficult than the beginning of the plant chapter. it has more guards, olga is harder than fortune, etc.

He killed a bunch in Mg1, 2 and mgs1. It was pretty much an important part of the plot in Mgs1. Snake is killer like a real soldier. He ain't a bitch ass nigga, be knows killing comes with the job.

>the tanker is not the tutoria
Is that why it has all the on-screen button prompts, Otacon telling you what SEMTEX is, telling you how first-person aiming works, whereas the Plant chapter just has Campbell interrupting you but with no button prompts?
>is how someone could think tanker = 300
The 300 VR missions is a reference for anyone who played MGS VR Missions. For anyone else, it tells us Raiden went through VR of the Tanker and we may or may not have played it.

I wouldn't say the Tanker is harder, you start with the MK22 already in hand and the map doesn't need to be downloaded. The Tanker is also loaded with nooks and crannies to hide in. It's the introduction to the game for a reason.
Fortune is a waiting game, I wouldn't say it's a fair comparison.

Fucking badass

In MGS1 on the PSX it is, but you can get zero kills in Twin Snakes thanks to the Tranq gun.

If I recall right, you need under something like 25 kills. So 'canonically' he killed at least that many. Which would include FOXHOUND, the soldiers that ambush him in those sections, and some soldiers during the escape sequence.

Great analysis. In a way, he is like a person that recognizes a sick and perverse compulsion. He is smart enough to understand what he is doing, but he still needs to do it.

it has semtex because that wasn't in mgs1 either, and first person aiming didn't work with all guns. plant chapter has no guards in the first room, and in the second room they're already ko'd because snake got there first. it has button prompts instead of campbell explaining things for a couple reasons, the main reason being that the game assumes you are a veteran of the franchise (so a character telling you how to do things would make no sense), the other being that it's supposed to mirror mgs1 campbell telling snake the controls

>For anyone else, it tells us Raiden went through VR of the Tanker and we may or may not have played it.
no it doesn't, because you would have to play through twice to realize that that dialogue is exclusive to an unsegmented playthrough. the tanker mission in mgs2 was not vr, there are a million and one things that contradict that theory (which is why bringing up occam's razor is so funny). the reason campbell says it's your first sneaking mission is because the game assumes it's your first time playing metal gear. which logically means that the alternate dialogue is for people who are not new to the franchise. that's it, that's all it means

later on, raiden tells snake how he went through a vr mission of the tanker, and there are flashbacks to raiden's vr training. this includes scenes where snake is holding an assault rifle, gunning down marines. this is because the patriots covered everything up and labelled snake as a terrorist. the vr mission is just one form of propaganda to achieve that end.

that's why snake says he doubts that the vr mission accurately portrayed the real events. the player is supposed to know what snake means by that, if they've played the tanker chapter, because the blue grainy footage (the same kind of blue, grainy footage used for cutscenes that show gameplay from the mgs1 vr missions) clearly shows things that never happened in the tanker mission when you played it

here's some more evidence that backs up the whole "newcomers were meant to start with the plant" thing, and that veterans were meant to play the tanker beforehand

i completely forgot that the original game asked if you've played mgs1 before. i know it kind of seems like the tanker should be the tutorial, but that's clearly not the case. the "tutorial" in the tanker is just meant to help you transition from playing the ps1 games, to playing this new ps2 game

>There will never be a HD remaster of Metal Gear and MG1 to better flesh out solid's character

DELETE THIS

A remake of MG1 and 2 would just be Big Boss wankery anyway. I'm ok with leaving them as is.

All I wanted was for the end of MGSV to have been fighting a young Solid Snake... Is it really too much to have asked?

that sounds like one (1) good boss fight, so yes it is too much to have asked

looks are only apart of it. Mentality, Endurance, Intelligence, Charisma, and other parts are also considered dominant genes

dude, this is what i was totally thinking of before we got any info on MGS5. like a final fight that is just MG2, getting burned alive.

Can your identity and personality really be conditioned by your genes?

Snake can kill children in MG2.

To some extent. Our identities and personalities are determined by a large number of factors. But the fact that Snake, Liquid, Solidus and Big Boss all turned out to be so different should be proof, at least as far as these games are concerned, that genes don't determine everything.