Why is it that there have been SO many fucking roguelike/lite games in the past 6-7 years...

Why is it that there have been SO many fucking roguelike/lite games in the past 6-7 years? What led to this boom in the genre? I swear, back in the PS2 era, there weren't any roguelike/lite titles anywhere, but now you have like 3-4 coming out per month.

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"muh retro" audience made it popular

Retarded game maker jackoffs who decided noise algorithms are easier than actual level design.

procedural generation means you don't have to actually design levels

it's easier, quicker, and cheaper to make, and requires less talent, it's as simple as that

most of the people making those indie games have never played a single old school game, they just don't have the talent to make actual levels

I am an indie game dev and this is true.

the binding of isaac inspired a bunch of other indie rouge-lites.
the 6-7 year time window you give lines up just about right with TBoI's release in 2011

There is 9000 thrash titles on steam each month thanks to no quality control from Volvo
Hint: click German and French language checkboxes while searching for new releases, it kills 90% of indiethrash. Shitters never add languages because they don't actually think their crap has any potential to earn money.

BoI
Necrodancer
Rogue legacy
Gungeon
Monolith
BoI rebirth
Ziggurat

That's not that many

this, also because dark souls became popular so it's hip to play "hardcore" roguelites

Necrodancer is the only roguelike that has actually innovated desu

That, and Spelunky in 2008. Those two games spawned this unholy wave of lazy roguelike games.

Because it's a simple genre to make. Just like open world shit, only even easier. Design a bunch of biomes with randomized door placements, shit out 50000 samey unlockable and boom - your game has infinite """"""content""""""

The actual roguelikes were made since, well, Rogue, and have nothing to do with indie faggotry.

So what's the actual difference between rogue lite and like?

The difference is, when you see "lite" it means there is talentless indie hack behind it

>roguelike
roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation
>roguelite
any indietrash with random levels and permadeath

It's a roguelite.

>like
Permadeath, random levels, grid movement, turn-based
>lite
Permadeath, random shit

Oh so Necrodancer is roguelike got it

...

>procedural generation means you don't have to actually design levels
>it's easier, quicker, and cheaper to make, and requires less talent, it's as simple as that

only if you do it poorly
a properly made and balanced procedural generation engine is one of the most difficult things you can attempt in a videogame

I wish there were more honestly, its my second favorite type of game. Unfortunately most are shit and don't do rogue correctly so we need more and more games just to have a chance at a food one

there isn't really a solid line, but some indisputable rogue-likes would be things like Nethack, Dorf Fort Adventure Mode, or even Pixel Dungeon. Binding of Isaac is right on the border, but most would consider it a rogue-lite. Some clear examples of rogue-lites would be games like Don't Starve, Faster Than Light, or Spelunky

How is it not a uniform grid of tiles?

Permanent progression between runs is also considered lite by the videagaem forum elitists so as soon as there is stuff to unlock between runs the game is considered a lite not like

Caves of Qud is p-p-pretty fun...

wait so dungeon crawlers aren't roguelikes just because they are first person?

Dead Cells.

It's an easy excuse for a lack of story and assets and lends itself nicely to updates especially if your first release was an unfinished pile of shit

So Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is actually a roguelike
Thanks

What are some games to check out where its done properly? Old or new.

Why does everyone here hate indie games?

It's not even out yet.

easy random generated sht.
even with good concept its just souless shit generated by cpu cycles

Isaac and FTL popularized the genre.
If a game is fun and successful, people want to replicate that.

>pmd
>permanent death of the player character

Hard to appeal to people when every one of them looks and plays the same.

Spelunky was already quite popular and that game came out like two years before BOI, so I'd lay the blame more on that than BOI.

Because sjw hipsters like them and its more important to appear cool and contrarian to your Sup Forums bros than to actually play and enjoy video games

>somewhat
You lose all of your items and items are fucking essential

>being so stupid.

Buzzwords sell.
See: survival, crafting

Why the fuck would grid-movement be oh so definitive in your anal definitions?
So if Stone Soup was done with hexes it would magically shift genres and no longer be a roguelike?

>Volvo
yeah volvo just gave up

it would be a hex grid so no

It's playable.

Because they are a one trick pony. That will get sold out and raped by companies like EA eventually.

nope, necrodancer is a roguelike if you play the modes without metaprogression

>randomly generated
>permadeath
>turn-based
>grid-based
>non-modal

based

This is false.

Where is the lie?

I don't, I've had more fun and playtime with indie games than AAA.
There's a big difference between making something because you find it fun and making it because it makes a ton of money.
Of course both categories have some exceptions.

>So Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is actually a roguelike
Yes. All the Mystery Dungeon games are roguelikes and even qualifies under the berlin interpretation. And anyone who disagrees is a pedantic cunt.

I wish indies could make rail shooters or 3d action brawlers like God hand, urban reign or the buffy game on xbox instead of generic metroidvania shit.

>3d indie
good luck with that

You could say playing Bard + All Zones is roguelike mode, but playing Bard is removing the part that makes the game fun.

Well it depends on the unlockables. If you unlock bonus classes or races for completion of milestones that is roguelike but if you unlock stats or skills from currency or blueprints that is roguelite.

My favorite roguelite is Risk of Rain

They're easy as shit to make and they have a niche because of the hardcore retro gamur cred.

There does seem to be a transition going on of indies moving away from 2d/pixel stuff and finally attempting to tackle early 3d.

The brainlets of Sup Forums have 0 imagination and can't immerse themselves in anything thats too "gamey" or has anything less then perfect realistic graphics.

I often think that the people who sit around in webm threads showing of how life like they get their games to run don't see anything but darkness when they close their eyes.

>all games released independently from a publisher looks the same
neck yourself and have your corpse thrown in the river

I am still waiting for the low poly love era

low poly is already being saturated user

3d beat em ups are a difficult genre for indies because they heavily rely on great animations. 2D ones on the other hand would be a good fit if the devs knew anything about the genre. Fight N Rage is good tho.

Sup Forums doesn't hate indies
Sup Forums hates shit games like generic indie walking simulator or generic platformer with shitty pixel graphics then it gets the fame of hating all indies
Just remember how many BoI and FTL threads Sup Forums had

I just call them roguetypes now since it includes both categories.

Give me good games then

there are none
that aside i really like the aesthetics of this
youtube.com/watch?v=B9FvHPRJTzg

Because the term "roguelike" has lost all fucking meaning. None of these games are roguelikes. And no, "roguelite" is not a genre. If I were to take two FPS games, two RTS games, two 4x games, two JRPGs, you'd be able to see their similiarities that warrant the creation of their genre, and you'd be able to infer what other games in those genres are like. If I took 2 "roguelite" games, you'd have no idea what a "roguelite" is because "roguelite" has no fucking meaning. Enter the Gungeon is a "roguelite", FTL is a "roguelite", Necrodancer is a "roguelite" and they have nothing in common. The term "roguelite" is a buzzword that indicates a game is a piece of lazy indie shit that should be completely ignored. These indie niggers have ruined roguelikes because now any fucking retarded schmuck thinks they can make a "roguelite" just by calling it a "roguelite" and doing whatever they fucking want. Roguelikes are literally as simple as "a game that is like Rogue" and indie faggots ruined it.

spelunky

Dead Cells
Risk of Rain
Nuclear Throne
Downwell
Caveblazers
Death Road to Canada
Dungeon Souls
FTL
GoNNER
Teleglitch
Roguelands
Streets Of Rogue
Hero Siege
Dungeon of the Endless

Necrodancer is literally only a "roguelite" because of metaprogression, it has modes without that. Hell, Necrodancer even has you buying items without switching modes.

DCSS > Angband > ADOM > Reddithack

>tfw I'll never have a cute Asian girlfriend

Why are Asian women so top tier?

Necrodancer is literally a rhythm game wearing a roguelike's skin. The core gameplay, save the one precious character you shills love to exalt, is a rhythm game, plain and simple.

Good,now tell me what action/adventure means and how the games are similar.
Also when you say roguelike you are able to tell a lot of the games mechanics at first sight. Permadeath, focus on progression between playthroughs and trying to make each playthrough feel different

The movement of her neck and hair make it more cute.

Don't forget
Strafe
Wasted
Barony
Catacomb kids
Vagante
Magicite
Badass hero
Immortal redneck
Heavy bullets
Paranautical activity
Delver
Plus I'm sure a thousand more

Roguelike
>Text or tiles for graphics
>Hunger system
>Inventory system
>Turn-based
>Generated levels
>Fixed win condition (usually "get the macguffin and escape")
>RPG + D&D mechanics - stats, levelling, die-roll combat, etc.
>Permadeath

""""""Roguelite""""""
>Graphics don't matter
>Almost never a hunger system
>Almost never an inventory system
>Almost never turn-based
>Generated levels
>Usually sometimes maybe a fixed win condition
>Very basic and bare-bones RPG mechanics, no D&D influence
>Permadeath

You can't define """""roguelite"""" because it's not a genre. None of the games are similar, unlike actual roguelikes.

A roguelike is a fixed genre. If I say a game is a roguelite you know *exactly* what to expect from it. If I say a game is a """""roguelite"""" you have no idea what to expect. Indie devs throw around the term """""roguelite"""" so much it has lost all meaning. It's one of those words they slap onto a game to try and get more buys - just like voxel-based, survival, procedural generation, post-apocalyptic, and so on.

Because all art is derivative and a game of dungeon crawl stone soup is objectively better than the first hour of world of warcraft.

>Catacomb Kids
the dev ripped off a different game and tried shilling for months on Sup Forums, why is it on your list of otherwise good games?

Okay, would you rather a; play through the initial stages of faster than light or b; sit through skyrim's opening cutscene again.

>game describes itself as a Roguelike
>isn't like Rogue AT ALL
>Roguelite is the most retarded name ever conceived for a genre
Just because it has permadeath and procedural generation plus dungeon crawling it's not a fucking Roguelike
Also a million times this

>now tell me what action/adventure means and how the games are similar.
Action/adventure is another meme genre just like roguelites. It encompasses such a gigantic amount of games that literally all games could arguably be considered "action/adventure."
A game is an action/adventure game if the devs are too retarded to think of any other genre to put it in, like Assassin's Creed or The Legend of Zelda.

>Strafe

That game is utter trash.

>"My game is an FPS-lite!"
>So do you shoot people in it or what?
>"Ew no that's problematic! You just walk around and interact with objects from a first person perspective."

They're called Immersion Sims, user.

No they're called FPS-lites you cisbigot

Are you making an argument here? There's absolutely nothing precluding a rhythm game being a roguelike, especially when it embodies all the high value factors and most of the low value ones.

I'm pointing out that calling it a roguelike is wrong since it's a rhythm game first and foremost. Just like if someone asked for a bullet hell you wouldn't recommend them Isaac, you wouldn't recommend someone looking for a roguelike necrodancer.

>There's absolutely nothing precluding a rhythm game being a roguelike
Yes there is you retarded faggot. Roguelike literally means, by definition and by its name, "a game like rogue"
Rogue was not some gay electronic rhythm game, therefore Necrodancer is not a roguelike.
You wouldn't call Dark Souls an FPS just because you can shoot a bow from first person.

caves of qud is fucking amazng more like

It's the dying sun / gene wolffe game i always wanted

"Roguelike" isn't a fucking genre it's just a top-down dungeon crawler

I would recommend it as one out of several, sure. It's advertised as a roguelike with rhythm mechanics, so your assertion that it's a rhythm game first and foremost is wrong.

:^)

Some got popular and sold well. The idea spread and made people aware of the quick play gumball machine prize pool style mechanics that helped make arcadey style games more viable to replay.

>it's advertised as
so you admit you're wrong. It can be advertised as the 2nd coming of Jesus, doesn't mean anything.

Genre go through trends. Remember when all we got was shitty collectathon platformers.

I'd say it's a genre, but the perspective and gameplay isn't really what defines it. The combination of mechanics that define it is more perma death, random loot, probably short play. It's a revival of the arcade style games using a gumball machine mechanic.

>Necrodancer
>Is the gameplay turn-based on a uniform grid of tiles?
>No

This chart is incorrect. Each turn is a beat in the music. You don't control the timings of the turns, but they are universal turns nonetheless.

>putting roguelike cannon in the "beatemup" section
>NO MENTION OF DUNGEONS OF DREDMOR

nigga you gay

Shadow Warrior 2

true but procedural generation makes replayability much more fun