Mid tier, here I come

Mid tier, here I come

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some old hat in the fgc, I think it was viscant but it might have been alex valle idk, said something along the lines of "if ryu is not among the strongest characters in an sf game, it's a trash game"

Technically that makes sense since they said they originally balanced and designed the game around Ryu. If that is true, then relatively speaking he should go up the middle.

Probably means it indicates the game has useful fireballs and decent footsies game and the risk/reward for dping is balanced. Too bad Ryu was one of the strongest in SFV S1 for the wrong reasons where he just had huge up close damage and off crush counter.

How? Literally none of his issues got fixed and he has arguably been nerfed

I think the question is whether or not he will be THE worst in the game or not

D O N K E Y K I C K

Playing SFV right now, how do you beat Rashid? I feel like he has non-stop bullshit and I can't deal with any of it. It's possible I'm just garbage

block and punish

>implying it's ever your turn

fish for crush counters until he stops mashing

>and off crush counter
However that attack didn't hit crouchers so it had a genuine tradeoff unlike balrog/urien/akuma and the other retarded characters good in S2. Crush counters like Ryus were good at getting high damage from whiffed DPs but guess what that doesn't fucking matter anymore because capcom decided DPs of all fucking things needed to be removed from the game. Removed from a game with a mechanic specifically added to make the highest risk option in fighting games even more punishing to block

I'll stop my rant now but fucking hell SFV is such trash

>fireballs are cheap!
>ok let's make fireballs universally garbage, give every character an easy anti fireball move and make rushdown the only viable playstyle
>throwing is cheap!
>ok let's make throw ranges absolute fucking trash and pushback from normals super high so tick throws barely work
>setplay and safejumps are cheap!
>ok lets make every throw lead to absolutely fucking nothing, let's add three ways to wake up making set play really obnoxious to do
>meaties are cheap why do I have to stop mashing!???
ok let's add a buffer for mashing on wakeup so you get that perfect reversal normal every time and let's give normals no fucking active frames at all so that the only way to reliably meaty someone is by using a frame perfect meaty setup unlike every other fucking game ever AND that's if you're even in range after your knockdown because everything pushes you fucking miles away because we don't want any setplay here

oh but don't worry all those things are cheap but the entire game revolving around mindless throw or mash your CC normal mixup is fine. We also made anti-airs absolute trash and do no fucking damage so you can randomly jump at your opponent to your hearts content and never learn to anti air :^)

god SFV is such fucking trash. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if they decided command grabs were cheap in the next version and made them all normal throws too.

he won't be good
ryu needs low recovery on fireball
right now, if you're playing online you can react to a fireball and jump on a ryu, he can jab you or get his shoryuken stuffed for no fucking reason

>Buffed low forward
>Conversion off low forward ex fireball vtc
>Pressure off low forward ex fireball vtc on block
>Buffer axe kick vtc in neutral and get solar plexus on hit
>Knock down crouchers for no meter
>Actual 1 bar combo now
did you even attempt to comprehend his changes

>Ryu
>His DP isn't a DP anymore
>His fireballs can't be used to zone anymore
>His tatsu has no function except in combos
He will not be good, SFV directly targeted shoto mechanics and made them all dysfunctional

So what you're saying is he can use his once a round resource slightly better (A resource which has been universally nerfed this patch) and (maybe) has one good normal in a game where almost every character has significantly better normals than him, significantly better mixup than him, significantly better setups than him and significantly better specials?

Name ONE reason anyone would play Ryu over Guile or Ken provided they are not absolutely massacred in this patch

>throws bad fireball
>"these fireballs suck capcom pls chop recovery off"

safe jumps are literally the most pure form of knowledge you can have in any fighting game and it works in everything
if you know the timing, you get a strong option. that's it. there's nothing more to it than that. if your opponent knows how to do it you have to respect it. it's not an auto win by any stretch of the imagination

Fireballs in SFV objectively suck ass. From pure framedata they are significantly worse and almost every character has a move specifically designed to completely shit on any attempt to play a fireball based gameplan. They are used at best to cover your advance or to be randomly thrown as an EX as a poke. Fireballs are not good in SFV. Regardless if it was a 'good' fireball or not (Which basically means done at fullscreen because anything else will get you immediately fucked over unless your name is Guile)

That's my point. SFV is like a game designed by those scrubs who cry and make excuses for losing to better players. Capcom has made an effort to kill every 'scrub-killer' mechanic or strategy in the book. Fireballs, DPs, throws, footsies, safejumps, you name it, SFV made them garbage.

So what you're implying is that having two new actually useful activation methods is only slightly better than unga sweep vtc hope it gives you a 90 damage knockdown and on block you get nothing

he's excellent but he's not a mixup character

he's really a pressure character mixed with great combo potential

It's obviously better but it was never Ryu's problem. He still lacks essential tools that most of the cast has and a few situational quality of life changes will not save him from that.

Have you played SFV? I use Karin and Ryu. Whenever I play a competent Ryu player, they can more-often-than-not react to fireballs with their designated fireball counters. When I play Karin, I can easily ex dash under any fireball that isn't a Sonic Boom and punish it with a corner-carry combo. Fireballs are trash, but it's more to do with the options people have to beat them than the fireballs themselves.

>Whenever I play a competent Ryu player
I meant, whenever I play a competent player as Ryu.

as ryu playing against a competent rashid you might as well just unplug the ethernet

This. Akuma, Rashid, and Karin does this shit so much and I hate it.

What rank are you Sup Forums?

Sounds like you just suck at timing your fireballs.

>I use Karin
Fuck off.

Ultra Plat

Not him but I think more likely you don't play at a level where players punish them properly

There is a reason you will not see any tournament matches where players rely on fireball game in the same way as most SF games. The risk is too high and the reward is not there. And, as he said, almost every character has a very easy way to deal with them even at low levels of skill.

>Nerfed Alex flash chops, knee, and powerbomb recovery
>Gave his lariat more active frames and advantage, even though it was A: Already way too much of a "go to" move, and B: This indirectly nerfs it, because now he can't have his perfect tickthrow powerbomb setup after lariat
What the fucking hell capcom? Why do you hate this nigger so much?

Lariat Powerbomb Tickthrow was like the ONE tool he had that made him semi-useful, and you take it away, while also nerfing his recoveries across the board. They made some "hitbox changes" to some other moves, but that's so fucking nebulous, it could be good or bad.

>start with 1300 LP
>end up with 900
was it a mistake to play tonight boys?

Yeah, and I experience success throwing fireballs because I know not to throw SF4 fireballs at ranges that are reactable. That used to be okay because not every character had an ex whatever to get through them. Throwing a fireball is optional. If you get fucked for throwing one, that's your fault and your fault only for not properly assessing the situation or being predictable.

read the notes again.

>Why do you hate this nigger so much?
Because he's not Laura, Karin, Rashid, or Necalli.

Super plat Alex

Bronze or something, I haven't played the game since it came out so it's probably even reset or something.

What character were you using and who were you losing against?

>finally got out of bronze curse
>went on intense win streak
>about to hit ULTRA SILVER
>get shut down by player named GodAkuma
>stuck in regular silver now

>doing run backs with an Akuma player
You deserve to be shut down for being stupid. Never do run backs with Akuma players.

>if you're playing online you can react to a fireball and jump on a ryu, he can jab you or get his shoryuken stuffed for no fucking reason
This is everyone, bruh.

Fireballs are shit in SFV, not just Ryu's.

Oh, well that's a definite plus, but it's still weird they're hitting him with the chops and knee. Hopefully the "hitbox changes" are good, only time will tell.

Also his new V-trigger is trash. The DDT whiffs on crouching foes, and there's a reason no one used it in 3, and it's not even a good mixup tool now, cause he only gets 3 tops, and the opponent knows for sure when you have it available. The choke is only good as a combo damage tool, and anytime you could combo into chop, you could have used Sledgehammer instead, for more damage.(Unless it's LP->Light Chop, but that's still super situational, and the damage isn't that great. Plus you lose access to his parry,
which was SUPER useful, especially if you cancelled it, rather than trying to Parry into sledgehammer.

Akuma and I lost to a rashid, ibuki and cammy

most Akuma players are either god or fucking stupid predictable, as most shotos are.
It shouldnt be a problem for anyone playing Urien

How about you quit using them the way you did in previous games and use them the way they were meant to be used. Adapt for a new iteration instead of crying because the game is new.

>always main Ryu in every game I play
>gets nerfed to shit in S2, probably won't get much better in S3
>still main him out of character loyalty

well, everybody seems to be getting dragged down to his level to an extent, so maybe he won't be so bad relatively speaking.

Fireballs are pretty good. They do decent stun, block random items like cans, banana peels and mic's and they all come with different properties. Ryu's can break guard, Guile's can go into combo, Ken's can knockdown, Chun's can set up great anti-air, Bison's is great for mixups.

They're much better than they used to be. This is probably the first Street-Fighter in a long time where projectiles are worth using in a combo.

>Main my boy Alex
>He's tough to use, but honest, managed to fight my way up into Gold, sometimes get knocked back down to Ultra Silver, but mostly hang in Gold
>Go on a bad losing streak, get knocked down to Super Silver
>Decide to try Urien on a lark, didn't play him much besides fucking around with him after I bought him with FM
>Schooling people left and right, 7 Ws, and only 1 L, get back up to Gold in no time flat
Is Alex that fucking bad, or did I just happen to luck into the biggest retards ever?

>character loyalty to literally the default character

Don't worry user I main Ryu too.

Tried to switch to Akuma and got my shit fucking destroyed online, switch back to Ryu and go back to winning.

Feels bad

Alex is just in a bad spot.
I went the same route with him after dumping FANG and Birdie and now stuck in Urien until G gets released.

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/countblackulee

Alex is totally good at your rank bro. You just lucked into shitters

Alex is not a strong character in season 2. You can meme wins with him but he's fundamentally very weak and most pro players put him as one of the worst in the game.

>They're much better than they used to be
Except for the things you actually use fireballs for, none of which you described

You can't use them to chip in SFV because you need to super to win.

Who are you to say what fireballs are used for?

don't be an idiot. DDT can be combo'd into and does big dick damage while also giving oki. Same with his Choke Hold. His VTs are fundamentally a choice between defense with VT1 or okizeme with VT2, which are his 2 biggest weaknesses. I think VT2 will be a much safer and stronger VT but it will lack the comeback round stealing potential of VT1.

He's probably talking about zoning but it doesn't matter because you use fireballs for that anyway. It's a given.

I don't know about you, but I don't play at a pro level and probably never will.

it's not all chops, it's only his overhead which is normalized to match other ones. His was the only overhead besides Ken's that wasn't -6 since the season 2.5 patch.

I got the game at launch, managed to get to Gold within a month or so. After hitting gold, I quit ranked and retired to casuals.

S2 rolls around, I decide I want rank up past gold again, worst decision ever. I remember one day I kept getting matched up against the same two Balrog players over and over. Quit ranked again after that.

Other than hoping that Ryu is at least semi-viable this time around, I hope they fix matchmaking. For whatever reason, I can never find a match online. I haven't played an online match in months

When it comes to those guys (and any SF character,) it's all about frame data. Knowing when it's safe to punish is the only way to beat these guys otherwise you're gonna get countered, and counter hits do more damage. It's easier said than done especially when you're facing against the faggot Rashid who has too many safe options. Not only that, but lag can also fuck up reads. Taking on Rashid and Cammy is not like taking on a Ryu player as they can counter you very easily.

Tiers are based on high level tournament play not performance against the normal online player. Alex would have better performance in online play than in tournament play since Alex players are not common online.

Hey everybody, I'm Roo from Streets! Did you know favorite things are jumping into crouch fierce, stale bread, water without any ice, the newest season of The Simpsons and dirt.

I didn't think about the Oki value of Choke Hold, but everyone who's had it hands on, has said DDT doesn't give you any significant advantage on hit. The lack of advantage for DDT, means I'd wanna use Choke in a combo pretty much every time, but a "Random" tick/pressure DDT here and there, could be very effective to keep an enemy on their toes. Overall I think the Choke is a lot better use of the V-trigger, since you get still solid damage from the combo, plus MUCH better Oki setup.

The Oki of Choke is the main draw of VT2, and I do think it's a solid tool now that I see how it works better, but the DDT is only a slight garnish, that gives his opponents something to be scared of stand blocking.

I really don't know what Capcom has against him, but as an Alex main, it's really depressing. I've been playing Alex since 3rd Strike, and one of the reasons that SF4 never clicked for me is that he wasn't in it. I was so hyped to finally get to play Alex again in SF5, and he's just been complete garbage since day 1... and he still manages to get worse every patch.

Considering the general state of SF5, though, I really don't have much faith in Capcom anymore. They're either clueless or incompetent

They do no damage, most (all?) can be punished with jump ins from anywhere but max range and most of the cast has anti-fireball move/s.

choke gives lariat oki and with the buffs to lariat on later hits it might hit super meaty, giving some really strong combos if the opponent tries to get away. Some people also said that DDT doesn't scale, doing a flat 190 damage which is pretty crazy if that's the case.

Not true.

Daigo vs Jwong in 2017 was a good example of how well projectiles work, even at high level.

>tfw Akuma main
ANOTHER SEASON AT THE TOP BABY

Nothing I said was false.

I posted FACTS about their properties, I didn't ask if the best players in the world have done something with them.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to, with the choke Oki value. The DDT on the other hand, has no Oki value, at least not any better than non-trigger combo enders. If it really does have flat damage, it will be an amazing tool to finish off an opponent you couldn't normally though, especially if you want to conserve meter for next round.

What are they doing to Karin? I'm not big into balances changes and frame data, but I glossed over her section and literally everything I saw was negative.

Lots of strikes now take more time to recover, her st.mk I found pretty useful but it sounds like it'll be shit now. Is my mp nerfed too?

I can win all day as Ryu but not as Akuma.


Tell me your secrets

making her midrange a little less oppressive. Some things will be easier to hit if you whiff them. All in all, she's still going to be good.

No you didn't.

You said the projectiles all lose to jump. Everyone's jump frames in the game are different. Some lose to projectiles.

Ryu is overplayed as it is.

Fuck buffing him.

dont worry, your stand roundhouse is still bullshit. They nerfed the startup as if anybody is going to want to try and stuff it. It's still going to be unpunishable on block and impossible to whiff punish. And you will still win rounds for crush countering with it.

oh yeah they also gave her a parry that you can cancel the recovery of moves with. so now you can fuck people for trying to punish you when you're unsafe

learn your combos and anti air juggles
cr. Hp is +3 on block
mix up the ground game (LMAO st.mk) and jump ins because he's stupid good at both
wake up jab, VTC has won me many games

Who has a jump in that loses to projectiles that aren't full screen?

Bonus points if you can name one without a dedicated aniti-fireball move.

lol sim

You said jumps beat projectiles.

Abagail loses in that situation.

bouncing between super and ultra silver after being in gold for literally 3 minutes.
if any of you were playing guile a couple days ago and bumped a ryu down to gold after he got there, first ggs second go fuck yourself

Keep trying.

>What are they doing to Karin?
>... but I glossed over her section and literally everything I saw was negative.

Wow, it's almost like they're nerfing a top tier character that has certain elements that are clearly too strong. How bizarre. How unheard of. I can understand why you are confused. I suppose you're going to have to actually put some thought into your easy wins now

But worse overall? The only positive change I saw was something about cr.mp hitting an opponent on either side now
>stand roundhouse
Is that my st.mk?
That's alright to hear then
I'll need to see more on this, don't really understand it

It doesn't beat the projectile. Frame by frame it loses.

Just hit Ultra Bronze before posting this. Hoping to break silver the week AE comes out.

Super bronze

so is someone gonna host a lobby or what

You know that fireballs, especially ryu's hadoukens, in this one is meant to be used just outside of poke range, right. Again, if you're getting hit by jump ins while doing fireball, you're just not timing it right.

she'll be a little worse, but that's to be expected: she was one of the strongest tournament characters for all of last season.

Roundhouse=heavy kick. that's gonna be punishable on block if poorly spaced. with her stand MK, it will just recover slower if you throw it out and it doesn't hit, allowing for people to hit you during the recovery of it easier.

Ryu throws LP hadoken. Opponent, on pure reaction, jumps forward at max jump in range. They get dped every time. In a real match, where you're trying to think about a number of things at once, and not just waiting for the training dummy to flinch, you're not jumping that purely on reaction unless you have something like ken ex air tatsu. Other moves that go through fireballs are a different story, but jump ins? Not gonna work without a read.

lol git gud

It's just zoning.

...

be the change you want to see

Thanks user. I guess I'll have to be more cautious with the st.hk now. Is poor spacing meaning too far or too close in this sense for the hk?
I like the st.mk quite a bit, kind of bummed about the recovery on that.