Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

people who pay for bethesda developed games

Depends on if the stormcloaks could beat the dominion

Not a chance in hell.

>Who was in the wrong here?
Those who betray Talos.

You can find Dominion papers that talk about how Ulfric is a puppet used to create a war to keep the Imperial Legion's resources low so they can't rise up and overpower the Dominion.

The answer should be obvious.

anybody who actually paid any sort of attention to the game knows that supporting the stormcloaks is an absolutely retarded endeavor
even ulfric himself admits what he was doing was stupid as fuck
the whole stormcloak vs imperials thing is just a way for bethesda to test just how much normalfags even pay attention to the game

>being this stupid
Imperial power is broken. All of the strong warriors have already left the fold. Skyrim has better odds at surviving by becoming independent and making treaties with Hammerfell and High Rock than it does by sticking to a decaying power with no influence anymore.

I just don't like the way the Imperials treated Ulfric in the end. At least acknowledge was made him unique.

>Imperial power is broken did you ever played any TES?

see this? this is the kind of brainlet I was talking about.
zero fucking clue about the lore

and it's because of people like that we're getting shitshows like fallout 4 now

Its not really a question. Stormcloaks should be in the right but Bethesda made them objectively bad. They looked good in the beginning so you could feel smart by learning that they are actually the bad guys. The ultimate proof is if you kill Ulfric before going into the Nord after life. There he is last, sad and scared in a void. By the lore of he was a good/true Nord he would be with the other Nords content and happy.

The Thalmor have basically already won. How many towers are even left? Just Brass-Walk right? Regardless of whichever side wins humanity has already lost.

Bethesda and the Nords.

>How many towers are even left?
You believe to such stupid elvish propaganda?

The best ending is to not end the war. Just do what the yellow elfs tell you to do.

Ulric = Trump
Dominion = Russia

But stormcloaks are BADASS and VIKINGS !!!!!

>he doesn't

>not a chance in hell
>took 500 Nords to push one group of Elves on the brink of extinction and into the underground
>no magic
>no shouts
Okay.

Lazy slaves will always be lazy slaves.

Sithis rulez.

both

imperials ramped up presence in skyrim instead of negotiating a truce.

dragonborn has to deal with the situation because both factions and their leaders act out as children.

the truce option obviously is the canonical option regarding outcome.

both tulius and ulfric both state "this exactly what they would have wanted".

Thalmor is the evil on both sides.

>Sithis rulez

Imperials are cucks who are being controlled by High Elves and basically are their puppets. Stormcloaks are racist savages. Both are wrong.

if the redguards did it the nords have a decent chance

u talkin about them snow-nigger elves??

they already were betrayed by the dwemer tho

are you american? or canadian?

the Thalmor let the redguards win

It took 500 Atmorans from a time when snowmen considered magic to be an honorable form of warfare, who also had the thu'um readily available and wielded specific elf-slaying magical weapons.

Modern Nords are backwards hut-living niggers who shun magic and can't use the Voice. Not only can they no longer remove Elf, the Reach shows us they can't remove literal stone age bretoniggers.

They were equal to the pissskin altmer. And it took only 500 nords to utterly decimate their pathetic kind after wronging the Nords. So Stormcloaks would have a chance if led by someone just like Ysgrimor, and that someone is The Last Dragonborn.

German

Yeah, it's totally that and not just Bethesda not giving a shit to hire a proper writer and doing any kind of quality control whatsoever.

last dragonborn is chaotic evil / neutral.

born of dragon blood, dragons are evil.

also personal toy/servant/champion of lot of daedric princes.

i dont think TLB would help anyone unless it meant becoming even more powerful

Too bad their leader is a coward who challenged a 20 year old to a duel then shouted him apart like a coward when he could have easily beaten him with steel

I thought that men only learned the Thu'um AFTER defeating the falmer and settling on tamriel.

Also, modern nords are totally ok with restoration magic. Isn't it canon that restoration can be used to cast plagues and shit?

>implying TLD isn't stuck being Herma Mora's tentacled cocksleeve

>it took only 500 nords to utterly decimate their pathetic kind
See: It's like comparing the Numenoreans to modern Men. Current Nords are an embarrassment to their heritage, even their God Tsun says so.

>20 year old
ffs
1. he was around 30
2. even if he was 20, thats still like 5 years after he became an adult

There is LITERALLY nothing wrong with using the Voice in combat. Jurgen Windcaller was an embarrassment to all Nords.

didn't jurgen windcaller singlehandedly turn the favor of the battle of the red mountain tho?

Dragon War was over before 1E 700 and the Snow Elves were still around by 1E 139. While it doesn't explicitly state when Kyne had man granted the Thu'um, for the timeline to make sense, it was during the Menethic Era.

The game tells you he had just become a man. In Nord tradition it seems more likely that he was around 14-16, not 30. Hell, half the Jarls and his own court refer to him as a "boy" and talk about how he hadn't had a chance to grow into a soldier yet, and was just spending time with his pretty new wife.

>able bodied combat veteran challenges young man who's spent his life in a castle to martial combat
>so worried a guy who's never swung a sword at a living opponent might hurt him that he REEEEs at him loud enough to kill him
Ulfric is an autistic coward acting up for attention. I forget, does he even have a wife? I don't recall seeing kids in his palace.

No, not at all. The Nords were utterly crushed at Red Mountain. Jurgen was the only Tongue in Skyrim who survived.

it's implied he inherited his position as "high king"

It's not implied, it's outright stated. His father was High King, it passed to him when he died even though he was still mostly a boy.

The OLD way was having all the Jarls duke it out to become the new High King, but the Nords had become more civilized than that. Until Ulfric showed up, invoked the old way and made a boy fight him. You could almost forgive him for being such a coward by invoking old laws, but he violated a 4000 year old Nord law and pact with the Gods themselves to win and in doing so invoked a prophecy that could've been the end of the world.

Ulfric just fucked up by not simply ASKING him to just defect from the empire.since he was repsected enough that he would have agreed.

It comes down to if Ulfric is an asshat with a lust for power, or just did a retarded thing.

>Hell, half the Jarls and his own court refer to him as a "boy"
No they don't. Only a few Imperial sympathizers like Jarl Balgruff's steward do that. That sympahty immediately gets shot down by Balgruff who points out Torygg was High King. Being able to fight is part of the Job description

I'll ask here since the other Skyrim thread is contaminated by /vg/.

Should I get LE or SE? I will be using mods and believe it or not, I've never played Skyrim before.

No, Irileth tries to shoot it down, Balgruuf acknowledges that he was both High King and a boy.

>"I'm not the High King, but neither am I a boy. If Ulfric wants to challenge my rule in the Old Way, let him."

high king is not a position that is inherited. It must be approved of.

They only approved of it because lots of gold was involved.

literally go to markarth and into the jarls bedroom and you'll find a chest and lots of gold stashed there.

they sold out for coin, he should never have inherited the title.

Balgruff should have led the stormcloaks

special edition is superior engine for stability, and with SKSE it's pointless to play legacy edition

>The OLD way was having all the Jarls duke it out to become the new High King
That is not what it was at all. It's not a violent affair and the only time it's supposed to be tossed around among the Jarls is when the old king's line is dead, or his heir is incapable of defending the realm. Bloodline succession is the typical standard unless the potential High King is unable to defend the realm. Moots are only called when the Succession is uncertain such as when you have a weak or underaged heir apparent.

The game explicitly tells you he inherited it from his father. When High King Istlod died the other Jarls just unanimously accepted Torygg as leader at the moot because that's how things were done now.

I mean, look at what you're saying. How many Jarls are even capable of holding a sword? The only warriors among the bunch are Balgruuf, Igmund and (arguably) Ulfric, though the only ones we know can actually fight are Balgruuf and Igmund.

>further dividing the forces of man
Dumb

I bet the original plan was for the player to join the stormcloaks because yay rebels, see the terrible shit the skyrim nationalists do, learn the whole war was an elf plot, then join the imperials to get everyone against the elves.

But then to give the players more choices they just split it up, so you get more player choice but a less satisfying conclusion.

>The only warriors among the bunch are Balgruuf, Igmund and (arguably) Ulfric
In the game files Skald also has warrior levels, but otherwise you're right. The rest are all level 10 and under civilians.

You for purchasing every version of this shitty rpg

Sure about this? Didn't he defeated other tongues in a confrontation to convert them to the way of voice?

>(arguably) Ulfric
>Learned the Voice
>Great War Veteran
>Led a band of mercenaries for years after the Great War ended

What the fuck, what is arguable about that? Ulfric is probably the best fighter out of all the Jarls.

I can only imagine how the old Nords in Sovngarde view their descendants.

>be big dick battle mages
>axe a dragon in the face with an axe and then blast another out of the sky with magic and shout another to the ground
>basically be absolute maximum peak performance in battle
>your descendants are a bunch of retards that piss their pants when someone conjures a fireball and use shouts on people that can barely fight to boost their egos

Although he saying that the empire was broken is too much, it is unarguably dying, specially after Oblivion. Tiber, as Wulf, says it himself in Morrowind.

I thought SE's SKSE support was limited?

only limited as in, skse devs tells modders asking for help to fuck off.

it's 1:1 feature set as SKSE for normal skyrim

How will they use Dragonbreak to handwave the two endings?

That was after seven years of isolation. An exile he self imposed on himself because of the sheer massacre on the Nords that the Battle at Red Mountain inflicted, despite the fact that the Nords had both the Thu'um and Ysmir himself fighting with them. The Tongues he faced on his return were the students of the Tongues who had died at Red Mountain. Who he then slapped silly to prove his point.

lol, nice propaganda. let's relook at it though?
>Learned the Voice
And was taught that it must never be used against his fellow man after he took a vow of pacifism before the Gods. He later broke both vows.
>Great War Veteran
According to literally every in-game source, he was a failure of war veteran. There are no accounts of him successfully winning a single sortie. In fact, he was captured early in the Great War before the fall of the Imperial City. We know this because he broke under questioning and to this day believes he was responsible for leaking information leading to the sacking of the Imperial City. Read your dossiers people.
>Led a band of mercenaries for years after the Great War ended
Who did fuckall. He temporarily drove off the Forsworn by targeting civilians. Women, children, elderly- and most of them weren't even Forsworn they were just local Nords too old/young to fight for him so he branded them traitors and went on a killing spree.

So, he's failed in every fight against actual soldiers and warriors and has only won against children and the elderly.

>Torygg says that the Empire and Skyrim could both potentially fall to the Thalmor if they rush to fight
>Ulfric wants to go fight the Thalmor immediately because hurrr Nordic pride will help him win

He can't even beat a small Imperial force partly made up of Nords that don't want to fight their fellow countrymen, and he thinks he can beat the Thalmor?

>My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperial!
>>No. No we're not.

>used tradition to murder Torrygg during a diplomatic meeting, broke tradition by using the voice against another man
>lost early into the war and was captured and gave valuable information to Thalmor, never actually got to fight much
>massacred civilians in Markath due there not having many soldiers there, carried out executions instead of an actual battle like he pretends to have done

If the nords expect to fight the thalmor they'll have to re-establish the thu'um on the battlefield. There's no way they win without it.

Why should he, he profits from Imperial trade. He's got a huge fucking statue of Talos right in front of his castle and a crier who's out there every day screaming about Talos, and the Empire doesn't give one single fuck because he pays his dues to the empire, and even though he harbors two influential families that are opposed in the war, Balgruf keeps their asses in check so his city can continue to act as a commerce hub.

His abandoning of the way of the voice is perfectly understandable from a patriotic point of view. Arngier tells you himself Ulfric was very distraught over the idea of the Greybeards isolating themselves when they could be helping improve the condition of Skyrim. He never became a full Greybeard precisely because of this. He left High Hrothgar at a young age so he could fight in the Great War.

There is no detail when he is captured during the 4 year period of Great War, except that it was before the last year when the Imperial City was taken. Every single source on Ulfric points out everyone knows he's a good fighter. Torygg respects him for his prowess and patriotism. He commands respect from his followers, many of whom are other Great War veterans. He broke, yes, the Thalmor are the most skilled torturers in the setting. Yet it took them so long to get anything out of Ulfric that all his info was useless, and despite this he was incredibly ashamed that he had broken at all.

The Stormcloaks single handedly took an extremely well fortified city out of the hands of a well supplied group of insurrectionists with massive support from the native populace. Ulfric personally shouted down the gates and led the assault into the heart of the city.

Not to mention Ulfric only knowns Unrelenting Force and Disarm, plus he probably barely has any mages.

>there are people out there who didn't kill Heimskr for being such an annoying fuck

>single handedly took an extremely well fortified city out of the hands of a well supplied group of insurrectionists

But the Forsworn weren't even a strong group, they only took Markath because Markath was weakened due to the Great War draining the place of troops. Ulfric came with a big army and mostly massacred civilians while spouting "You are either with us or against us", the Forsworn don't have a huge force.

I fucking hate it how useless Bethesda made shouting. What are some mods that make shouts more powerful and reduce cooldowns so that they're actually worth a damn but not game-breaking?

They have winterhold, and a bunch of imperial, bretons and dunmer around due to close proximity. And jus tpopulation wise Altmer can,t handle long period of warfare due to the time it takes to get another generation out.

SOme shouts are far from useless tho.

>Marked for death
>2-3 sword stabs kill a dragon
EZ pZ

Only way to beat nazi elves is to have the Stormcloaks win
Though if Ulfric was smart enough he'd just sic the Last Dragonborn on the Dominion

>forsworn are a "well supplied group of insurrectionists" and not "a bunch of half naked bush mages and savages wearing animals furs"

If you side with Ulfric, his first order to the Dragonborn and his Stormcloaks after you beat Tullius is to hunt down every last Imperial you see.

And you think the Dunmer and the like will help the Stormcloaks?

They were strong enough to take a stone walled city from one of the richest holds in Skyrim, likely through the use of hiding their soldiers in the populace and holding a coup from within the city. The Stormcloaks were not a big army directly after the Great War. It was just Ulfric and his fellow soldiers looking for work. It's numbers didn't swell until after the Markarth Incident when Thalmor presence in Skyrim became much more intrusive and Nordic unrest increased.

If normalfags would stop lapping up all the open-world shit that nu-Bethesda is producing and hailing it like the second coming of christ, they'd have to put in some quality control.
Bethesda is only able to be lazy useless hacks because people buy it up either way.

Yes, they had complete control of the most fertile region in Skyrim for two years, were housed in an extremely well fortified Dwemer city, and an entire silver mine in said city to pay for whatever they needed. Their barbaric culture doesn't change that.

They definitely think they should have added a system where the more you use a shout the faster they cool down.

Shouting should have had it's own perk system. Thankfully Ordinator fixes that somewhat.

At least shouts are still useful endgame. Think of poor Destruction Mages in unmodded Skyrim.

>stormcucks think muh honor and muh ancestors will help them survive a mounted assault by a superior and more civilized race

>we wuz aedra

>we wuz talos

I play Destruction on umodded Skyrim with Legendary difficulty. Never ran into any problems.

>How many towers are even left?
Adamantia is definitely around

an occasional reminder that Altmer mages are the only thing thats keeping Numidium from destroying the world. To super simplify it - when Hjalti-Early beard (who started calling himself Tiber Septim since it sounds cooler than fucking Early-beard) fucked over his friends and unleashed the Brass God on the Summerset Isles - extremely powerful aldmer mages managed to lure him into a pocket world of sorts where they keep battling him for several Eras. Its only when they finally fail that he returns to Mundus and completely fucks it up leading to the extinction of most races, including most humans.

So its a human who doomed the world, and a bunch of elves fighting to defend it

Lol.

Walking Brass, Adamantia, and Greenheart are all still active.

well to be fair the Altmer fighting Numi are not Thalmor aligned, they have been around for Eras, while Thalmor only rose to power after the Oblivion crisis

Greenheart is not, its been mentioned in the Pocket Guide to Empire that Kalinesti has rooted itself and stopped moving, so its very likely that the tower is deactivated

>Ulfric is a puppet

I know this is a meme but there's a difference between having someone as a puppet, that is, completely under your control, and being a 3rd party who's actions are furthering yours at the time.

If Ulfric got power and then decided they were going to imprison every Thalmor ally in Skyrim and then kill every single elf in the embassy (located in the ass end of nowhere for some reason?) there's no way for the Thalmor leadership to fuck him. There's no killswitch, or any leverage for that matter because they aren't on the same team and don't like each other.

>He's weakening the empire
True, but what's left of the Empire? Without Skyrim its just Cyrodiil and High Rock. Over half of the empire has left already, and since Oblivion Cyrodiil's just tripped from one disaster to the next. Skyrim's just doing what every other country has gotten the chance to do already, and that's save itself. Only this time the Empire can't allow it because Nords have been their go-to for army recruitment since the beginning.

All I see happening is the 2nd War leaving Cyrodiil conquered again, because anyone who's played Oblivion will notice how indefensible Bravil, Leyawiin, Skingrad, IC, etc are, with the flat open terrain.

Meanwhile, Skyrim has 3 impassable mountain ranges, a couple roads, and a frigid northern coast thats treacherous as hell.

Don't think Ulfric's a good leader, or even a decent leader, but for the general public dying for the empire which is doomed anyway isn't attractive.

Oh, and the Thalmor can't unmake the world unless they can tamper with *all* the towers. If they can't get at High Rock (unlikely, redguards would help), Skyrim (bc of potential Day of The Rope), Morrowind (lol) or Black Marsh (Sickness emoji, swimming emoji) then losing the IC is not the literal end of the world (plus they held it for a year already, probably already did whatever damage was necessary)