There is no worse sin in gaming

There is no worse sin in gaming

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youtube.com/watch?v=yXwbN--6udQ&list=PL1953735CEF331DE7&index=9
sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Barrel_(gimmick)
youtu.be/WbIp4if4QDA
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Plenty of barrels earlier in the level you could've experimented with, but you decided to hold right and got punished for it.
Eat shit. There's literally only two things you can do in this game: move and jump. When one didn't work you should've tried the other.

shut up

jesus

Get the fuck out. You scrub. You cripple.

Kill yourselves

no u

I figured it out when I was 6 years old
I can't imagine being so laughably bad at video games

Fucking retard with no muscle control. You are the reason games suck.

I'm over 28 and just figured it out, this shit is bullshit, there should have been a proper way of finding out.

>admitting to being incapable of problem solving
commit sudoku.

At least post the true bullshit area.

do you want a fucking medal? I figured this out the day it came out.

Face the facts: you cannot play video games.

Fucking bullshit

>locks moving left and right
>jumping doesn't work
>"Hmm, what else could I possibly try?"

no one wants to listen to you explaining that you're a retard

There are no signs or point earlier in the game where you have to do that

please keep showing what a monumental waste of oxygen you are.

How much is Sega paying you to defend their bullshit?

>Sup Forums is defending this artificial difficulty piece of shit for "gamer cred"

So? Sorry you couldn't just brute force your way through everything.

>It's Sega's fault that I can't figure shit out on my own.

Scrub spotted. gtfo. How the fuck can you call yourself a fan of video games. Go back to playing Blue's Clues or whatever your rotted brain can handle.

Anyone defending this is trolling. It's a bizarre mechanic that appears nowhere else in the game.

>artificial difficulty
Jesus fucking Christ, how hard is it to try every button?

>herp derp i have no muscle control or critical thinking and demand that all gaems accomdate my subhuman intelligence
kill yourself. You are worse than a nigger. You are - god forgive me for saying this - a croatian.

It appears in the next fucking level

Trial and error got me through just fine. Your gamer sense was weak.

I had no idea that the Red Barrel was even a thing until a decade after the Sonic 3 came out and a bunch of simians showed their red asses and feces-eating habits by admitting to not being able to do basic problem solving

>no muscle control

I'm not even sure what you're implying.

No you're just incapable of thinking and too impatient to try everything. Nobody is paying me to tell you that you're a dimwitted fool, I'm doing it as a favor to you. Because clearly not enough people have been honest with you about it.

You people are defending a post-Jaleel White Sega, you realize that?

Just try different shit you dullard. That's like saying the snowboard was bad because it didn't show up anywhere else. Don't tell me that was more obvious, just learn to solve simple problems without being lead around by the nose.

>segafags dont even know how to play games
no wonder sega died

I just hate stupid people that get defensive when they're called uncreative and dumb. Accept it and be better instead of doubling down. A great many people figured this out when you gave up like a bitch. Be just a little ashamed, and next time try harder

What the fuck are you even talking about? How desperate are you to defend your lack of cognizance?

The problem with the barrel isn't that it's difficult to try everything, but rather that it seems that the first thing to try (for many people) is to find a different route, which doesn't exist.

This is literally a thread about how "just push every button until something happens" isn't bad game design.

>locks you in the room
>"I guess they want me to reset and try again"
Are you serious?
Sorry a tutorial prompt didn't show up for your braindead ass, there's a total of 5 inputs in the whole game.

>over 20 years later
>people STILL defend the barrel
Yuji Naka personally apologized for the damn thing
I get that it's cool to be contrarian but this one is indefensible

>>jumping doesn't work
Why does everyone say this shit? Did you actually play the game? Jumping DID effect the barrel, just not enough to get it low enough to escape. All they had to do is, wait for it, show you that you can use any barrel by standing on it and pressing up and down for any barrel that ISN'T in a locked unexitable room, so you can easily tell what to do afterwards. Instead of telling you that in the manual. The manual. That everyone NEVER reads. People should have known video games needed gameplay info in the game instead of that arcadic shit they pulled for years.

Seriously stop defending what was clearly outdated game design. The game isn't faulted as a whole because of one fucking barrel, but it was clearly poorly executed.

Stop defending bad design

>Grown men complaining about shit you figured out in a child

It's like a shape based IQ test and apparently most of you failed.

Again, plenty of barrels you could've experimented with. There's even a barrel you can use earlier that gets you some goodies. What difference would not being locked in make if you still needed to do it to advance? There's comes a point where you should realize jumping's not getting the job done. 5 fucking inputs.
Stop defending dumbing down video games

I'll keep defending because I FIGURED IT OUT THE DAY I ENCOUNTERED IT

FACE IT YOU ARE A RETARD.

Imagine being so retardes you're defending bad game design

shit man I figured it out when I first got to it too, I never knew it was something notorious until a decade later when the internet was more accessible
doesn't change the fact that it's textbook shit design

>casual filters are bad game design
I love the barrel, 23 years and the tears keep coming.

how about you learn to play video games before commenting on them, you polack

Cybershell BTFO of you mongoloids almost a decade ago.
youtube.com/watch?v=yXwbN--6udQ&list=PL1953735CEF331DE7&index=9

imagine being so retards you can't get over your failures from two decades ago

am I the only one who used the second controller to make tails jump on the thing until sonic could get out?

There are wild animal species that are more capable of solving basic problems without constant hand holding than you. You have forsaken the ability to pause for a bit and think for yourself. There are only so many things you can possibly do. God damn.

You can't even spell retarded you fucking dumbass.

>The manual. That everyone NEVER reads.
You're just a fag then. If you didn't read the manual on the way back home from the store in the 90s you don't know SHIT about video games.

I beat the game. I figured out how to use the barrel long before my access to the Internet was allowed. It still was shit design. Why can't you get this through your dense skull? You beating something means jack shit, when the MAJORITY overrules.

I beat all Knuckles stages in SA2 without the need of the radar, but even I can agree it was retarded to make only one emerald detectable when in SA1 all of them can be detected at the same time. Just because you're a special little snowflake, it doesn't make up the global opinion, which is what really matters. Lots of people hated it, even Yuji Naka admitted it, the end.

Yuji Naka made fucking Sonic 06, his word means nothing. Did any of the actual level designers say sorry? What magicly makes your opinion the majority? Retards on Sup Forums? There's less people in this very thread crying about the barrel than people saying "git gud." Guess that makes you the minority pal.

Literally the games fault, not mine, I'm damn good at video games and could kick your asses at any of them.

The funny thing is you actually can get through by jumping with perfect timing.

Fucking this

Pretty sure he left half way through

Explain the problem here. I never played Sonic as a kid.

>gatekeepers everywhere in this thread

Fine, Shadow.

I refuse to believe people actually had trouble with this.

I FOUND YOU FAKER

You have to press up and down to make the thing that telegraphs that it goes up down move up and down.
You can't move left or right on it, so your options are up, down, and jump. This is apparently hard to figure out.

No. I was Tails to my big brother’s Sonic after I begged him to let me play.

>Yuji Naka made fucking Sonic 06
False. He was the Producer of 06, he didn't create the game's gameplay, levels, anything. Producers are basically just mangers over something, with Director taking the full control over the project which, lo and behold, is none other than Nakamura, the same guy behind the idea philosophies of Sonic Forces. Yuji Naka did program Sonic 1, 2, and 3K, which is why his word does matter to the topic at hand.

>Without the radar
After memorizing the different locations. There’s no way you didn’t the first time.

Wow, sounds difficult. Knowing Sup Forums the majority here figured it out via e-celeb let's play. Fucking underage.

Somebody post "the pit"

>tfw you timed your jumps to clip through the barrel
Before I had access to internet I always thought that was the right way to do it.

>defending bad, unexplained unprecedented gameplay elements
It's so easy to make fix, like a big alternating UP/DOWN arrow light sign nearby or in the background. Most people wouldn't assume you'd take direct control of the barrel. Of course they wouldn't, you control Sonic, so they'd assume you need to use his physics like time your jumps.

But of course hindsight is 20/20 and everyone should know how to use it because you do now.

it's because that was the only weird ass obstacle that was considered complex in relation to whatever else they gave us in the game

Ditto. I got past it by bringing a bubble shield.

There's a floating barrel blocking a hole Sonic needs to go down. Jumping on the barrel causes it to rubber-band up and down from Sonic's weight, leading some players to believe they were meant to continue jumping on it to get past the hole (which is possible, but difficult).

The barrel will also move up and down in response to pressing up and down on the d-pad. Some players ignored this due to the aforementioned jumping method, and the fact that pressing up and down at any prior point in the game just made Sonic look up or down.

I mean only for like the first 3 levels it wasn't hard getting like a B-A rank, but you don't need to get 3 perfect scores for each emerald to get a A rank, just at least 2, which unless it's the space level and desert level, it's really easy to get to emerald to emerald in less than a minute each. The levels aren't that big, the only ones that are the space level (mostly vertically for Knuckles) and Pumpkin Hill.

Which I should mention I'm strictly referring to Knuckles levels, all of Rouge's levels just plain suck so I don't care about them.

I always read the manual. Boy you fucks must have had a hard time with MGS

>popular meme games like Minecraft and PUBG are entirely trial and error to learn
>no one complains

>popular retro game as ONE instance where you have to do this
>people complain about it for decades

The problem is jumping almost seems to work, so people keep doing it.

This.

Name one mechanic in PUBG or Minecraft that are so obtuse your controls completely change?

Did Yasuhara apologize? I don't care what Naka said man. Wasn't he put on the spot at a con?
Was it hard to figure out the tops in Marble Garden too? They're really not much different.

Well, no. Because the tops activate with left or right, the directions on the d-pad you were using already.

There's only so much banging you're head against the wall you can do. Some people are just stubborn.

The fact that it was a one-off instance in a game that was otherwise straight-forward was a big part of the problem. The game up until that point teaches you that there isn't an obstacle you can't bypass by running, jumping or spin dashing. Pressing up or down is a useless non-action almost everywhere else in the game

What kind of shitty reasoning is that? You never need to do anything with any other barrel before that one.

>This thread
This was objectively bad game design, and here's why.

The barrel has a slow input response to pushing up and down. Comparing it to any other objects in the game that require specific input to function (such as the pulleys on Mushroom hill), they all have immediate response. Only once you've moved it up and down a few times does it become apparent that you have to move it that way.

But here's another problem; no other object in this game has more than one way to manipulate its movement. These barrels have two methods: pushing up and down repeatedly, or jumping on it repeatedly.

The latter method is likely the most commonly used one for several reasons. In a platforming game, people will jump a lot. Jumping on a barrel causes it to move, ergo this barrel can only be moved by jumping on it. Additionally, most of the problems in the game are solved by jumping - so having the barrel wobble up and down will feel like the natural and intended way to manipulate it.

This is movement method is reinforced even more in an earlier portion of the stage if you're playing Sonic, as you likely wont have been able to progress without having to clear a high jump using a barrel. But the problem here is that you can beat that jump simply by jumping up and down on the barrel until it launches you high enough, instead of pushing up and down.

This obvious method of beating the first puzzle teaches the player that barrel based problems should be solved by jumping on them repeatedly.

When a player gets to the locked room barrel, they'll try to find a way out. There might be a way up since the ceiling is high, and a previous puzzle required going up... so it's possible they'll spend a long time trying that method.

There could also be a hidden room that you have to find by hugging a wall at the right angle, so they'll spend more time using that method.

Eventually they might figure out that they need to go down, but jumping on it will never go that far.

(1/2)

Most people here probably struggled with it as a child. So yeah, undeveloped problem solving skills + bad feedback = frustration.

Plus as a kid you're more likely to think the game is just broken, rather than realize you were expected to do something else entirely.

Yes and they telegraph that, just like the barrel with up and down.
Like stuck for a couple minutes I can understand, but fuck man there are people who claim it took them years to figure out or they just flat out gave up.

Nigga I ain't reading that shit fuck yo momma

sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Barrel_(gimmick)
there is a wiki for it

>just like the barrel with up and down.
The barrels don't telegraph shit. And pressing up and down doesn't come up nearly as much in Sonic. So no, it is not a natural solution.

I was 7 when the game came out and got /figured it out with no problems. I beat the gane the same day I got it.

Not all of us had internet at age 7. You grew up in the age of gamefaqs, I'm sure.

The difference being the tops ask you to run. An action you spend most of the game performing in Sonic. The barrel asks you to look up and down, something you almost never do in Sonic.

>this thread
youtu.be/WbIp4if4QDA

But you can. You're not very inquisitive are you?
They move up and down user, if jumping doesn't seem to work, what's the next logical solution?

>if jumping doesn't seem to work, what's the next logical solution?
That you aren't timing your jumps properly, and you suck. Keep jumping.

(2/2)

Then the final problem comes along that they have to do all this while racing against a Game Over clock that's likely already well passed 5 minutes by the time they get there.

The problem with this puzzle is that the player is taught one thing earlier in the level, and they're expected to do another thing later.

It's an example of bad design in a video game since the mechanic is likely not going to be figured out before hand, and what has been learned before doesn't get used in this situation. Figuring out that there's an alternative way to beat the puzzle becomes harder to figure out if the player has already learned something previously.

To come up with an example... in Portal, you place Portals using your left and mouse buttons. You manipulate the puzzles in the game through this method.

It feels natural to manipulate puzzles this way since most games involve pushing left and right mouse buttons as the core method of solving problems.

Then one day you come across a room with a wall you can't put Portals on, and the only way to beat that room is to put Portals on that very wall.

How do you put Portals on this wall? You push up and down on your keyboard instead of left and right mouse buttons. No-one tells you this, you've never had to do it before. It's not something you're used to doing since normally Portals can only be placed by clicking...

Also if you don't figure this out in 5 minutes, you die.

Figuring this out without help doesn't make you a genius. It makes you lucky for mashing the right buttons at the right time, and paying attention to what's going on - or it makes you stupid for completely ignoring previously learned mechanics.

In the off chance you actually did immediately think "this is clearly solved by pushing up and down" then hats off to you, you did it! Most other people don't come up with these solutions quite like your special mind does.