Where does Demon Souls fit?

Where does Demon Souls fit?

Love Demon's Souls
Love Dark souls 1
Love Dark souls 2
Love bloodborne
Dropped 3

Bosses, clearly. Atmosphere, for fucking sure. PVP, debatably.

in the trashcan

>World-building

So fucking nothing then?

Greatest weapon in the series that was never replicated again, even better then all the trick weapons.
Also, if it had an estus system instead of grass, it would be front-runner for best PvP.

>World building isn't an important part of a game known for its atmosphere, lore and enemies

It has worse bosses then DkS3 or BB, although I think conceptually Old Monk is the best boss in the series.
It has worse atmosphere then BB, although Latria was great.
I agree it has the best PvP, but I know I'm in the majority.
I think the world and character tendency systems were great, the weapons and movesets were incredibly satisfying, and it had incredibly good balance between weapons and classes, and it had a metric fuckton of builds.

DS2, DS3, and Bloodborne are all shitty games though.

>worse bosses than DkS3
Gimmick, lore-based bosses are much bettter than "fallen knight who was once a brave motherfucka no. 3476"
>worse atmosphere then BB
Bloodborne is edgy and dark up to eleven, and that's great, but at the same time DeS has that immensely unique, peculiar feeling of something anicent and uncharted. Every world, besides the first one, feels like another planet, honestly.

BB is best in the series, no question.
DkS1 has shit gameplay, enemies, bosses, and the worst combat mechanics in the series. BB is an upgraded DeS.

In your ass.

BB combat is completely ass and it's gameplay is a complete 180 from dark one. It does nothing better.

BB is pure shit coddled by consolefags because they want to look relevant.

Dark Souls 3 is the only good game in the series

Definitely above DS. But not sure if to the upper left or upper right.

Effortless bait but you’ll still get replies

>DS3
>BB in souls skin
Bloodborne is shit and so is DS3. Don't be an uppity bitch because you got one on PC and not the other.

people who play those games for the pvp should commit suicide.

>World-building
It should be level design, retard.
And DeS is in the center with BB.

Replace ds2 with 1, rename world building to muh atmosphere and throw 2 in the trash where it belongs.
Also how can 3 have best bosses, if it's not part of the challenge side? Might throw it into the trash too.

>World-building
DS1 has an interesting world, cool bosses and themes.
>Level design
Second half of the game is incomplete

>a game known for its atmosphere, lore and enemies

Nobody cares about that shit, you dumb lorefag. The vast majority of people who play the Souls games play it purely for the gameplay and never read item descriptions, don't notice any of the details, skip through the dialogue, etc., etc.

>Also how can 3 have best bosses, if it's not part of the challenge side? Might throw it into the trash too.
Because a boss can be good even if it is not the hardest?

>do something
>die
good fucking game, retards

If you like gimmick bosses, then inside the triangle, but towards "lore" edge. if you don't, challenge edge, but more towards lore

>challenge on ds2's side
lmaoing hard

>do something without being retarded
>don't die
Yeah, I guess it is

only contrarians praise DeS

The first half of the game is far and above the others. It's not even a comparison. And the second half of the game still has pretty good areas like the Duke's archives, and tomb of the giants.

DaS3 is linear garbage. DaS2 is alright, nothing to write home about.
And I can't speak for Bloodborne, since I haven't played it. But I suspect it's getting higher praise than it should, since it's a PS4 exclusive. So It's like their little untouchable darling.

And besides, Demon's Souls has the best world building.

you can rate a dark souls game by its casual filters. prove me wrong

No, they're really not. You've taken a shitty meme video to heart. There's nothing good about Dragon God, Armored Spider, Dirty Colossus, Phalanx, Leechmonger, False Idol, Storm King, Adjudicator, etc. They're all a bunch of trash.
You're conflating DeS having a strange aesthetic to it having atmosphere, and although it does, it's only landing half the time in my opinion. Shrine is bland and Stonefang is just bad. Boletaria is generic, albeit good. Valley is great when the level design isn't killing it, and of course Latria is arguably best in the series beating out a lot of BB. The bottom of the Nexus and the introduction areas are surprisingly good and it's a shame they never got in. Either way, their are lots of Latria-tier areas in BB too.

DeS and BB are the only games in the series worth a fuck imo, whereas Dark Souls 1 is more of a proof-of-concept then a good game. And although I like DeS a lot more then all the rest, there's very little it does better then BB.

DS2 has challenge/mechanics because its a challenge to actually use the mechanics of the game

Nioh had better combat than Blood Borne.

Oh yeah, and the reason I suspect Bloodborne is overrated, is for the fact that DaS3 is MASSIVELY overrated. And everyone agrees DaS3 is similar to BloodBorne.

>dark souls 3
the only one there thats deserving of "casual-filter" is Abyss Watchers. The rest are standard shit what the fuck

>Casual filters
>When all of them have Easy Mode in the form of magic

DaS1 has the worst movesets, the worst weapons, the literal worst combat mechanic in the series that actively rewards playing retarded (poise) and allows scrubs to pay Excel until it unlocks the game's secret potential to mash r1, hilariously bad balance, broken BSes that shit on all humanoids, broken shields that shit on everything, broken ranged that shits on everything, completely helpless enemies and weak bosses, dumb shit design like kicks that don't do anything, and there's more too...

What can you say about BB? No shields? Vials are bad? Too much stamina? Not enough styles?

Magic is not easy mode in DaS2. It was by far the hardest playthrough I did and I did a bows only playthrough.

>Nobody cares about that shit
said the johnny-come-lately 'muh difficult but fair game' in which I've spent hours upon hours on a PvP that is an afterthough
people like you are the true scum of this franchise

>said the johnny-come-lately

Jesus user how old are you?

...I'm not sure what video are you talking about. I don't remember the points of Matthewmatosis video if you're talking about that one, besides that one, generally correct point about how real souls fatigue is and how important it is to just stop making the same game and create something unique.

I loved, say, Adjucator just for how fucking uncanny and weird it was. Armored Spider has fantastic theme. Storm King fight feels like a fever dream. You can't just call it "trash" because it doesn't offer some "cool-ass adrenaline-pumped action".
>their are lots of Latria-tier areas in BB too.
Alas, that's not true. There are several nods to it in the endgame and TOH, but when it comes to being absolutely fucking horrifying in terms of pretty much everything -- only Hypogean Gaol springs to mind.
> there's very little it does better then BB
Not saying you're wrong, but in that case DeS benefits from basically being the progenitor of the whole series.

>people like you are the true scum of this franchise

No, people who think anything but the gameplay matters are the scum of EVERY franchise, e.g. waifufags, storyfags, lorefags, etc.

You can fuck right off.

We mostly agree.
I still think the series greatest pitfall was not replicating how Estoc worked in DeS, because at the end of the series it's by far the best weapon.

But cosmetics and story are actually part of the gameplay.

Bloodbornes stylistic changes are far far simpler. and it all began at DS2. and at the end of the day it all comes down to a very simple thing. Monster closets. Instead of it being a game about careful planning, and slow intentional combat. it became a uneven unfair spam fest just because it's a quick and easy way to make it "hard" it isn't hard. it's unfair. If a mob suddenly spawns behind me and kills me instantly, how am I at fault? what could I have done better? Just git gud and know everything perfectly before hand and don't get surprised by the thing that it's impossible to know about. literally every souls game after one is FULL of this shit and that is why every single one s trash. EVERY game that does it is trash. from dark souls 2, to nioh, to ninja gaiden everything.

here's what carries each game while not looking at originality (in that case, DeS would have something going for it)

The phenomena has existed in all the games, so I'm not sure how you you're using this as an argument. DkS1 is notorious for them in fact with complete bullshit like mimics, ceiling slimes, and ambushes.
Is this really supposed to be your argument?

No shit bosses in dark souls 3 is a laugh

What if I borrowed a ps3 only to play DeS after having played the others except BB beforehand and absolutely loved it?
The image is fairly accurate for other games though

It has the single best weapon and single best boss in the series.

Demons was the best in the series by a huge margin. Literally every title has tried and failed to emulate the fluke that was Demons

>das 3
>visuals
>no shit bosses
>movement/rolling

What were DS3's good bosses again? I remember Champoin Gundyr, Nameless King and The Princes being fucking hype but that's about it. Only played the DLCs up to that shitty twin dragon fight though.

That's nostalgia talking. BB is the best. Demon's is my favorite, but BB is easily the best.

>The vast majority of people who play the Souls games play it purely for the gameplay and never read item descriptions, don't notice any of the details, skip through the dialogue, etc., etc.
we call them niggers

you could make that argument for every one except Dark Souls. Dark Souls vastly changed the formula and improved on basically everything, only thing DeS has over DaS is the lack of a Lost Izalith.

DeS is fun, its flaws don't ruin the game, it just doesn't really stand out on anything at this point

you must be a DaS2fag

you're pathetic

even if it did, it wouldn't be enough to carry the entire game on it

your mother

man, MatthewPhimosis really took a hit on Sup Forums, look at all this DeS cocksucking

>Individual areas level design
In some cases maybe but this point could just as easily be in DaS1 if you ignore 1 or 2 shit levels. DaS3 has plenty of mediocre areas (and even shit areas like smouldering lake) and barely manages to get on even footing with the better DaS1 areas because of how flawed its actual good areas are.
>Movement/rolling
Being able to spam roll at no stamina cost is shit
>Game speed
Not a point in its favor or against it.
>No shit bosses
It had a few like Wolnir.
>visuals
Dwarfed by DaS1 in some areas and everything is greyish.
>optional bosses
All these games have optional bosses that are decent.

fuck off autist, in a game like Dark Souls atmosphere, art design, and world design are extremely important. I bet you think Dark Souls 2 is good.

>mimics, ceiling slimes, and ambushes.
>mimics
Can be recognized by the chain. rewarding attention to detail.
>ceiling slimes
Can be recognized by LOOKING AT THE FUCKING CEILING
>ambushes
very vague there. Let's call the shitty ninjafags at the undead burg an ambush shall we? you have a massive open street with a assload of doors along it and literally nothing else.they couldn't have made it more blatant if they spraypainted AMBUSH in big red letters.

DeS has better combat, better weapons, better balance, it's faster and more responsive, Latria is better then anything you can find in DaS1, etc.

I didn't like BB for its lack of play styles. No matter how you built your characters, everything felt like a dex build

In what sense? Cause DeS has very good level design which is a massive part of the games

Is this supposed to be saying BB is the best? its not the best at anything it does
>easiest mechanics
>least varied playstyles
>easiest bosses
>mid range lore
>worst fashion
>worst npc fights and quests
>mid range to low world building and connectivity
>mid range enemies

Woah, DS3 has BY FAR the worst lore. Rotate the labels by 1 place anti-clockwise and they would be way more accurate, I mean, doesn't everyone complain about the mechanics of DS2 anyway? Like the adaptability, the soul memory or the dead zones?

Did you walk around in DaS1 staring at ceiling looking for slimes? Did you recognize your first mimic? Did you see the street ambushes the first time around? Fuck off with that.
Also, why the fuck do you defend this shit and say "Later games are bad because of ambushes!" Pick a side.
Finally, none of that makes up for all of

>you must be a DaS2fag
No, I'm a DaS 1/Bloodborne fag. Dark Souls 3 looks like fucking shit, the art design sucks and for some reason the textures, lighting, cloth physics, and particle effects are all far worse than in Bloodborne. Movement is a fucking joke, the rolling is retardedly overpowered, even being far better than Bloodborne's dash and combined with your infinite stamina means you can just panic roll through every attack in the game, the removal of medium roll was a huge mistake and armor is such shit that they may as well have just removed equip load like in BB. There are tons of completely shit bosses like Greatwood, Crystal Sage, Wolnir, and most of the other bosses are purely mediocre and forgettable like Dancer or Oceiros.

>implying BB has bad atmosphere

>Being able to spam roll at no stamina cost is shit
I said movement/rolling, not "rolling stamina cost balance"
I'm saying that Dark Souls 3 has the best and most consistent roll, with responsive rolling and iframes, I don't remember in DaS3 getting a roll that I'd say "I timed that roll perfectly, what the fuck, how did that attack hit me?", ever. That and no
>lel you locked on now you're forced to use a dash that trivializes half of the bosses, and is absolute garbage against the other half
and on top of it all, movement isn't "gated" or whatever you wanna call it like DaS1 when locked on, and DaS2 at all times (though there's a patch for that, I think)

How could you say that the Kirkhammer, Boom Hammer, Amygdalan Arm, and Beast Cutter feel like DEX builds? BB had some of the best STR weapons yet, also there's the Kos Parasite ARC build which sure as fuck doesn't feel like anything else.

As someone who beat vanilla DS2 yesterday with a pyrosorcerer build, it wasn't really that bad.

Except for the DLCs. I did Eleum Loyce first, and Burnt Ivory King forced me to switch to a melee build for the rest of the DLCs.

Then again, not many spells are good enough for the mob waves that the game likes to throw at you.

>Did you walk around in DaS1 staring at ceiling looking for slimes? Did you recognize your first mimic? Did you see the street ambushes the first time around?
>Did you walk around in DaS1 staring at ceiling looking for slimes?
Yes. Not slimes specifically but yes.
>Did you recognize your first mimic?
I hit all chest as a reflex long before dark one.
>Did you see the street ambushes the first time around?
Literally yes.

>DeS is fun, its flaws don't ruin the game, it just doesn't really stand out on anything at this point
Mostly agreed, but for me what makes it stand out are the bosses. Sure, they were gimmicky, but I actually prefer it that way, I'll take an interesting and creative boss fight over another "circle, dodge and hit them until they die"every time. Best bosses in franchise to me, although I do know it's an unpopular opinion

not that user but it does

pretty sure he was saying BB had the best atmosphere, saying "it has worse atmosphere than BB" to show that DeS is not the best game.

>alternate routes in favor of DS1

Nigga, say what you will, but DS2 is the least linear one.

>DS3 is linear garbage
>DS2 is alright


kys retard

>it's faster and more responsive

Absolutely wrong. DaS 2 has many optional areas that you can approach from many different routes, but the main path is extremely linear.
DaS 3 is by far the most linear game in the series, kill yourself. There are ZERO alternate paths and you can't do anything cool like running through late game areas to get weapons right at the start like you could in DaS.

>but the main path is extremely linear
Prove it.

When will this meme end?

>panic rolling
pathetic, and I'd spam roll in every other souls game without issues anyways, not that that is viable anyways, you'll usually get trashed doing that

>There are tons of completely shit bosses like Greatwood, Crystal Sage, Wolnir, and most of the other bosses are purely mediocre and forgettable like Dancer or Oceiros.
if these are the "shit bosses of DaS3", then thanks for confirming it's so good on that department.

>pick up sword
>spam R1
>fun
no thanks
>wait for boss to look away
>run to next checkpoint
>repeat
no thanks

I enjoy learning bosses' attacks and patterns, or dealing with crowds, I don't like 1 trick ponies that have nothing to do with the core gameplay of the series (though you could argue that it was not the focus yet on DeS)

of course, at least none of these are Bed of Chaos, no doubt the worst boss in the entire series, only rivaled by the Ancient Dragon because at least Bed of Chaos finishes way earlier

DaS2 is more linear than DaS1 I think, look at how many first bosses you can face in DaS1, let alone the rest of the game (after getting to Firelink Shrine, I mean)

I liked DaS2's gating system just fine with multiple routes leaving Majula, my problem is that the world is complete bonkers. It's a completely different design choice, and I myself prefer DaS1's "consistent world"

DaS3 was simmilar to Bloodborne in terms of level progression, but I fucking loved going back to where you face Vordt and looking down the wall and seeing all those places I had visited, as well as the lit torches in the swamp

>Ceiling slimes
It pretty much gives you a solid tutorial the first time around. Obviously suspicious little outcropping in the wall with an item and a slime drops on you if you take it and don't roll away. You might survive this.
>Mimic
Again you are in a fortress of traps and you encounter a chest that isn't aligned with the wall unlike basically every other chest. It has developer messages around it as well as bloodstains and if you wait around a bit then you will even start to notice that it is breathing.
>Street ambush
It's a straight corridor with doors everywhere.

Though I do side with you and state that generally the later games are only sometimes bad with ambushes rather than constantly. DaS3 stood out to me though with a lot of scripted patrol start triggers (Which differ from the obvious alley ambush), the Basilisks getting triggered by you opening a chest (with no way to aggro them prior even if you can hear them), the curse monster spawning from a room without a ceiling and the Harald knights spawning out of the ground. I don't really remember any moment in DaS2 where this happens though aside from the bell ringing.

>There are ZERO alternate paths and you can't do anything cool like running through late game areas to get weapons right at the start like you could in DaS.
you can kill the Dancer of the Boreal Valley VERY early in the game and go to Lothric Castle, fampay

>Alternates routes
>not the key point of DeS
Hello PCtard.

Dragon God WAS shit, no discussion here. But some others were great. Phalanx, Armoured Spider, Fool's idol, Old Monk, Old Hero, Storm King, Leechmonger, Astraea and to a lesser extent Tower Knight, Flamelurker, Maneaters and Adjudicator were all much more interesting mechanic wise than vast majority of bosses in later games.

From the very start of the game you only have access to the Forest of Fallen Giants and the Tower of Flame, both of which lead to the same place (Lost Bastille). From the very start of DaS 1, if you choose the master key you have
>New Londo
>Valley of Drakes
>Blighttown - Great Hollow - Ash Lake
>Catacombs
>Undead Burg
wow, ONE extremely difficult alternate path that ultimately accomplishes very little, very comparable to the vast freedom that DaS 1 offers.

this entire post is bait

Bloodborne doesn't have this you retard. In BB you can basically see all the enemies ahead of time 90% of the time, and the combat is actually balanced around frantically fighting many enemies at once.

Souls games are good for building characters and multiplayer, I don't really care much about the rest. So for me the most important thing to have are lots of equipment to choose from and the game mechanics. Demon Souls is the worst for this so I agree with

DeS, after the Phalanx, throws you at the Nexus with 5 arcstones, and you can progress through any of them you want, and if you feel stuck or just tired of that one you can go to another one, but each path is very linear, soyboy

I played the chinese version of the game before you even heard of the series, so how about you shut up

I never said there were multiple alternate paths or that it accomplished a lot, just don't lie if you want to argue on the internet

also, the path splits after you kill the first crystal mage, and iirc the smouldering lake is an optional area

your mother is bait, soyboy

>PvPfag
You are the true cancer of the series, the actual point of the game in DaS 2 and 3 (the PvE) was fucking ruined to cater to you faggots.

>Fromsoft haven't done anything new since Demon's Souls
>Dark Souls and Bloodborne just copy pasted 2009 gameplay and inserted nothing new of value
Souls games are shit.

Nah, the game is poorly balanced, lots of exploits. Some bosses can be killed by just shooting arrows at them from an unreachable spot. Those are not good bosses

Bloodborne with DLC is absolutely the best game in the series. It's a solid 9/10 and that's on a reasonable scale, not game reviewer scale.

DeS was innovative but unpolished, DaS is the most obviously half-finished of the lot, DaS2 has many issues already discussed to death, DaS3 is extremely derivative of both BB and DaS1.
Bloodborne's relative lack of build variety compared to DaS1 and 2 is the only major issue. Its world is different and refreshing, combat is the best in the series, and DLC pretty much fixes the low weapon count issue

tell me more about how the PVE of those games was ruined to make the PVP better, because I don't see anything of that sort

Dark Souls completely changed the formula of the game and had like 5 times as much content as DeS. If you can look at the astronomical difference in depth and polish between DeS and Bloodborne and think "hurr literally nothing changed" you are delusional.

>DaS2 pvp
>good
>caring about PvP in the first place
Might as well just throw Demon's in that spot and discard DaS2 all together
I'm also laughing at DaS3 having the best bosses.

>t. autist.
I didn't play DaS3 to even completion out of sheer boredom and DaS3 has worse problems then ambushes, like it being a dull piece of shit with no personality.
I don't care about ambushes either way personally, I just think it's kind of small-change as a flaw, especially when it's present in every game to some extent.

I co-op often too so I like to fight cool bosses, too bad demon souls doesn't have those either.