That were the days:

This game's combat system (until wotlk at least) was awesome. Class design was awesome. Rage mechanics on warrior, energy mechanic with combo points on rogue, rune mechanics in death knight, healing over time on druid etc.
It was fun. Then came Ghostcrawler (lead dev) and in an effort to casualise it he murdered wow.
Example: lifebloom was a stackable healing over time that when expired made a huge heal. If you could time it with burst damage phases from bosses it saved the day. But then he nerfs lifebloom direct heal and everyone mindlessly refreshes it. Class diversity died too. Everyone and his dog got interrupts etc . This game is now dead and buried.

Where can i find today a game (single or multi player) with similar combat, /v ?

Other urls found in this thread:

steamcommunity.com/id/nekrolysis
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Those rose-tinted glasses putting in work I see

watch out the nostalgia fag has a melt down

>This game's combat system (until wotlk at least) was awesome

t. didn't play WoW pre-wrath

Yeah sure 2018 blizzard is the same as 2008 blizzard. Based

Cool source orb in your inventory there

Taren mill vs southshore. Enjoy you fast travel yawnfest.

Wotlk was the first expansion to butcher the class mechanics and the combat. It was the first step to casualized wow.
If you haven't played BC raiding enough to understand this, you never would, because you're a nostalgiafag whose first days in wow were set in wotlk.

The butchering was not from launch if i remember correct. It was a mid expansion patch.

Its stock photo not screen.

>lifebloom was a stackable healing over time that when expired made a huge heal. If you could time it with burst damage phases from bosses it saved the day. But then he nerfs lifebloom direct heal and everyone mindlessly refreshes it.
I played a resto druid in BC and that never happened. There was no reason to waste your mana, GCDs and sustained healing to let Lifebloom expire when other healers could time a single direct heal to bring the tank back to full after a mechanic. The only time when the bloom part of Lifebloom was ever timed like that was on Loatheb in WotLK.

WoW has always been cuck shit.

RuneScape is where it's at. Or where it was at, at least.

WOTLK was peak wow in terms of gameplay and population

Come roll on a vanilla WoW private server.
Been playing a shaman for 3 months casually and almost level 60 ready tog ear up for PVP.
Been loving it after I quit during WOTLK.

Care to say which game you are referring to, sir?

>wowscrnshot120509213707.jpg
What?

I would disagree, I think Pandaria was were the gameplay really was perfected for all classes

World of Warcraft

.........
Screenshots cant be downloaded. Based

nah proc and combo oriented pve is way more engaging than castsequence macro spam, you didn't even have to look at your screen while playing a hunter or a dk to do theoretical max dps because procs or combos were irrelevant, arcane mage was a fucking joke compared to what it was in MoP, fire mage in MoP was also decently engaging due to proc management with combustion stacking and dot spreading considerations, of course there are always specs that are brainless such as my 2h FDK in MoP and rogue through almost every expansion except the latest 2, although notably cata sub rogue was among one of the most engaging dps playstyles there ever was in the game

>Wotlk was the first expansion
TBC giving Shaman/Paladin to the opposite faction because diversity was too hard to balance

>muh raiding
Fuck off; raiders are the reason the game became casualized. Blizzard's obsession with shoving everyone into raiding destroyed class balance and relegated everyone into straight tanking, healing or DPSing.
You killed the game.

>straight tanking, healing or DPSing.
If you weren't going any of these, what good are you? Legitimate question.

Blizzard's original game design intended for a few classes to be best in tanking/healing/DPS while the rest had niche roles to fill. For example, Druids with Innervate and battle rez. Hybrids had the hybrid tax.
It wasn't until after Naxx that Blizzard was insistent on shoving everyone into raiding. They nerfed raids from 40 to 10/25, they gave faction parity for Shamans/Paladins and they started giving every class the same toolkit as the rest so you could "bring the player not the class"
The game's casualization started with BC, not Wrath. Raiding is what killed the game.

>he thinks vanilla pve was harder than TBC pve
user...

This is correct. World of Warcraft can be used as a case study for "vocal minority". Thanks to a select few who were dedicated raiders that could get to end-game content, which was a feat back in 2006 where the statistics say that anywhere from 1% to 5% of players at the time ever got to Naxxramas, that spammed Blizzard's forums the game changed dramatically in TBC both for better and worse.

Even today, certain specializations were considered completely obsolete, such as Retribution paladin or Balance druid. What was never taken into account was the fact that these specs were considered largely eclipsed by better classes in a raiding format, a literal mathematical calculation that min/maxed every minute detail of the game, from requiring all rogues to be human and all priests be dwarves. It's because of this narrow focus that dramatic changes were made as the game moved on from Vanilla, with no regard for the opinions of the other 90-99% of players who enjoyed being unkillable in WSG or getting free KBs with Moonfire spam.

Even in TBC, the path to raiding is ridiculous; see pic related. However, that didn't stop the developers from using it as the litmus for balancing classes. How, exactly, were classes balanced? By slowly letting each class merge into the same style of gameplay. A "casual" player (non-dedicated raider) could have a specialization that worked in both dungeon / Battleground environments, and there was no scorn about it. With TBC's raiding and arenas, having a hybrid spec resulted in getting kicked out of the group.

By constraining class balancing to controlled environments -- raids and arenas -- WoW shot itself in the foot by removing the "world" element. This is something that would carry over to Wrath with further homogenization, the removal of World PvP events, and with the clusterfuck talent trees became removed creativity and instead made everything as cookie cutter as possible, and this cannot ever be undone.

the term "Wrath baby" exists for a reason

Wrath was when they targeted the game towards casuals

>The game's casualization started with BC, not Wrath.
Uh, no. You needed lots of crowd control to complete even heroics. You also needed plenty of conditionals in raiding (like with Leotheras, Shahraz, etc). Don't talk if you haven't played the game, retard.

Lich King was the beginning of the paradigm shift towards accessibility. While things are more accessible today, they are by no means any easier. There's just more avenues for the lesser player to do content.

"Casualization" =! Easy
On top of the sheer XP requirement drop that lowered the amount of time needed to get to higher-level content, Blizzard started getting hammered more and more for a lack of accessibility towards raiding because of their ridiculous tiering system in TBC. While the boss mechanics are certainly difficult, there was the introduction of what basically amounts to T5 DUNGEONS being released along with the Sunwell so players didn't have to farm raids so late into the expansion, which is something Vanilla never did, just because people complained. This is very different from when people were begging for C'Thun to be nerfed because that was incredibly unfair; this was a slap in the face towards people who put time and effort into the game by giving everyone else a major freebie to the action in the final patch. This would later be reflected in reduced mount costs and levels, dual talent trees, more flight paths and graveyards in older content, and so on.

Regardless of the fact that raiding was still considered difficult, it WAS a stepping stone towards casualization.

>wow pvp
lmao

>vanilla pve was harder than TBC pve
I never said that.

The amount of CC required is irrelevant. Blizzard began to equalize the factions, abilities and classes in BC, not Wrath. The entire reason Karazhan existed was to ease people into raiding; it even gave worse gear initially for this reason. Badge gear existed to get people into raiding quicker.

>With TBC's raiding and arenas, having a hybrid spec resulted in getting kicked out of the group.
Have a funky-ass weird spec is the only way I got into raiding in TBC. My whole job, throughout most of TBC, was to place a specific set of totems so the 3 warriors could hit 20k windfury procs.
I didn't mind, because it let me right click people to death in pvp.

It was inevitable when you had people like Alex Afrasabi (or whatever) getting into the dev team and ruining the game with their autistic min/maxing.

That seems more like something a guild would do with someone they trusted. I wouldn't use "anecdote" as the singular form of "data". It would be like saying all draenei and shamans were broken in TBC because you could be a walking +1% hit with Bloodlust.

I was just telling a story, thanks for reading.

Minmaxers btfo

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Great analysis.
So they gutted the World from Warcraft.
That was the cardinal sin.

Pretty much, yes. The reason PvE was so well-liked was because of the exploration, which is arguably more and more difficult to have in a game thanks to data-mining and beta testers spoiling new releases, which is entirely out of Blizzard's hands. One of the chief complaints people have with TBC onward, in terms of exploration, is the use of flying mounts, which removed the threat of a snare / stun / gigantic fucking fireball ruining your day. I'm still pissy about Flight Form because a druid just needs to not take damage for five seconds and he can literally fly away and avoid a death.

Introducing arenas ruined the PvP metagame forever. Forget about making an AoE spec to mess with Alterac's bottlenecks, and forget about going Combat rogue so you can get free rep and honor flag running in WSG, you're going to be glass-cannoning or stealing moves from the paladin playbook to be as bulky as possible. It stopped being "what spec should I be so I can raid UBRS and still defend myself while Horde hides behind the door" and became "how to I burn mana most efficiently, with no thought towards damage whatsoever?"

Ascension is the best WoW available.

>Rage mechanics on warrior
Was absolute ass and was why you could barely 2v1 enemies. Kys.

Doesn't matter bro. Who cares about the world when you can sit in your garrison and queue for raids. Raids raids raids XDD

>Blizzard's obsession with shoving everyone into raiding destroyed class balance and relegated everyone into straight tanking, healing or DPSing.
Are you sure it wasn't them adding PvP into the game?
Because you clearly don't know a fucking thing.

Except this is wrong, what made warriors difficult is that they were a mandatory keybind class and required stance dancing and remembering what each of your binds were so you could interrupt spellcasting, intercept kiters, disarm rogues, and make sure your rage-generating abilities were always on cooldown. The smallest amount of lag would fuck you up (like other melee classes) and being caught with your pants down meant an instant death, not to mention all of your abilities being based on weapon damage. The rage mechanic had far less consequences for the warrior class compared to everything else it required.

>combat in an mmo like WoW aka everquest mmo
>good/awesome
Top fucking kek, all you do is stand in front of a monster in autocombat. NICE VIRTUAL WORLD THERE GUYS. Seems like OP has shit taste

WoW will never be the same and you know deep down you'll never find an MMORPG with the same mechanics as "those days" since devs are casualising games to bring in a wider audience

Vanilla/TBC are games made by nerds for nerds

Nu WoW is a game made for casuals and trannys

I would personally argue that both raids and arenas ruined WoW. They both operate entirely as vacuums -- with raids being controlled environments with mobs behaving exactly as programmed and arenas being a game of rock-paper-scissors -- and removing the randomness of battleground hazards and WPvP meant the death of individuation.

PvP already existed in the world and as battlegrounds. Arena contributed, but it was always a "side game"
At least, that's what the raid fags always said.

Rift has the same gloriously convoluted mechanics and character progression, but the community is dead and devs are jews.

I really want to love it and recommend it to others but I can't.
It's an abusive relationship.

I thought rift was pretty neat. Is there any Jewyness that I'd have to look out for as a new player I gave it another whirl? Do you have a guild to play with?

The jewness is pretty transparent with the entirety of cash shop. On the plus side no content is gated behind paywalls, it's just ridiculous microtransaction practices.

As for a GOOD and ACTIVE guild I'd be hard pressed to recommend one. My own guild only contains shitters and rejects without other place to be including me as the sorry excuse for a guildmaster

steamcommunity.com/id/nekrolysis

I wouldn't mind being a smol group. Add me if you wanna chat more about it and shiet.

>2285 day(s) since last ban

you should have made a new stem account 6 years ago

I'm holding on to it till I hit 5,000 days and still ask Volvo to get it lifted even tho I know it won't work if I'm even alive by then.

what’s funny is a lot of us felt the opposite. 90% of retards in top 50 guilds struggled to even get duelist never mind gladiator.

>pushing 2k dps
>in the state surv hunters were at launch
Wow. Your guild mates must have been really chill people putting up with a pathological liar like that.

Mages would disagree, all of our max level talents were fucking gay.

Well said

>tfw I can never do cool bullshit like this ever again

Doing hybrid builds for shit and giggles is the only reason why I still play Rift.

People complain about Wrath but holy shit, Cata destroyed player choice and class customization.
>what if we gut the talent trees by 70% and lock them into the first tree they select until they're level 80

On what basis do you actually call this casual though?

Raids are harder than they ever have been. People being paid money to raid struggled with Kil'jaeden for weeks even though it was fully possible for them to down him with their current gear whereas beforehand people only struggled with raids due to sheer mathematics holding them back.

Its not a matter of improvisation, feel and imagination anymore. Its a job and joblike discipline and spreadsheetism is what gets rewarded.

Actually current druids are fully tailored for that shit

>spreadsheetism is what gets rewarded.
You're seriously described Vanilla here. Pure mathematics was what got you over the line. Ever heard of the Four Horseman fight in Naxxramas? Pure mathematics and nothing else. Absolutely no skill required just the right gear and classes.

Maybe after commercial death the afterlife is nerd territory? Is it true anons?

Play on lights hope private server

I repeat, casual =! easy.

Casual is a term used to denote how a player is rewarded, regardless of skill, effort, or investment into something. Think of a casual golfer plays golf to socialize and relax, or a casual driver moves around to get away from life and enjoy scenery. In a similar vein, the casual players of WoW were roleplayers, or people who ran PUGs for entry-level raids, or only logged on to run battleground weekends. In other words, the casuals, 95% of the game, would just dick around in a virtual world after most chatrooms shut down but before Facebook dropped.

The CASUALIZATION of the game itself didn't start because of them, it started because the top 5% of players were bored. They didn't enjoy socializing, goofing off, or any of that nonsense, they were scheduling raids and performing them with mathematical precision. They were trying to "beat" an MMO, which is impossible, but that wasn't their mindset. When they broke a barrier, they demanded more, even though Blizzard was catering the game to the 95%, and not the elitists. In order to calm them, they inducted one of their own, a former raid leader from EverQuest, into the developer ranks, and then everything went to shit.

It was no longer about what a class COULD do, it's what a class SHOULD do. If it can tank, it should have a dedicated tanking spec, a dedicated tanking set, and dedicated tanking abilities. Forget about generic class sets, forget dungeon sets to reward FILTHY CASUALS who can't dedicate over four hours at a time to inspections and loot councils, forget about all of that garbage and focus solely on tiers, with a set for each specialization! Also, why should I have to grind through raids again? Let's introduce dungeons to skip content that the majority of players have never been in, so I don't have to waste time!

This mindset, this casualization, is why we are mad. Look at Legendary Weapons as the definition of reward with no effort.

Cata sub rogue was the shit I remember the legendary daggers and the op trinket.

>When they broke a barrier, they demanded more
The results could be seen after Wrath when Blizzard made general content easier to focus on the raids, yet raid fags were still beating them at the same speed as before. The end result: ruined game for 95% of the population, and no change for the 5% demanding more. Blizzard should have pulled their heads out of their asses once they saw the subs dropping but they doubled down.
Blizzard has dug themselves into a hole they'll never get out of in the retail game. Which is why they're going to gamble on releasing classic servers.

>That giant cluttered UI
I have cancer now

...

better but still vomit. I hope this is from 2008 because if you're still using square resolution I feel for you.
At least turn UI scale down to .9, come the fuck on man

...

seeing old pics of low level rando characters makes me wonder where they are now.
how high did they level?
are they rotting forgotten on someone's account, waiting to be played again, never to reach that prestigious level 9?

Good. And I can tell this is private because of the widescreen res and the chinese players. Currently playing light's hope myself.
Classic will kill the great private scene we have now. It's a shame, but probably the only reason Blizzard is doing classic in the first place.
That guy was right. we thought we did, but we don't. It's going to be a shitshow and we'll all pay for it like good little cucks.

Post your best.
youtube.com/watch?v=v72zoaQVTg0
youtube.com/watch?v=TnLAC5AJPuM

>Classic will kill the great private scene we have now.
Bruv you must be bananas, if you think Blizzard won't fuck it up in some ways, unless they roll out the naxx patch with out the raid content up to it, its going to be dog.

I really wonder how they're gonna gate it or if they just say fuck it and make everything available right from the start.

Why do people pretend the combat is any worse now than it was in the past?

You've always had 3-4 buttons to press in a rotation and a few supporting dps cooldowns, on top of the utility and survivabilty stuff.

It's the same shit.

Eh. Kinda, Cats can now moonfire spam in cat form if they want to and at level 45 you can choose an affinity for one of the druid's other specs that will give you that shape shift and a few of their spells. However given how reliant classes are on gear and passives to actually work in content that matters you're not really going to be using that affinity all that much, and this includes PVP where the druid's hybrid nature shined brightest.

Fuck off underage nu-gamer