Does Stacker or any of those pay to win prize machines considered vidya? They have controls, sound and gameplay

Does Stacker or any of those pay to win prize machines considered vidya? They have controls, sound and gameplay.

Other urls found in this thread:

ohwow-arcade.com/Assets/Game_Manuals/STACKER.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=rqVrjp7DnXo
youtube.com/watch?v=vXBfwgwT1nQ
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

They're also able to be rigged by the owner, so it's just like any private server.

There are adjustments on the inside the machines to make it only possible to win after x plays. Its just pachinko

I won a PSP once after putting like $70 into it

how are these games not illegal?
they're supposed to be games of skill but the way they are rigged they are pure luck like any slot machine
>you have a 1 in 80+ chance in getting a lenient attempt where the major prize square won't auto-fail

>the way they are rigged they are pure luck
Except they're not. They're purposely set to have a certain amount of money that needs to be put in before a win is achieved. There's no luck in it. It's skill or auto-lose.

>before a win CAN be achieved
Just fixing my fuckup.
You can also find the owners manuals for these things online with ease if you don't believe me.

My arcade had one of them years back.
I'll always remember it because I won a CD player from it.

They're 100% rigged, so I'd say no

He obviously meant "luck" as in you can't control when it allows a payout and you can't tell how close it is to doing so

I got to the major prize row and lost by one square.

It's a shame really, these things and crane games would be fun if they were fair.

that's the whole point, you literally can't get the last square unless the machine lets you, and it only lets you every 1 in 80 shots.
The machine actually has settings for 1 in 200, 400, 1000, 2000 and beyond.

Because slot machines do the exact same thing, you assclown
Slots are not pure RNG, they has the same system of controlled payouts so RNG can't fuck the house over.

>Because slot machines do the exact same thing, you assclown
Yeah, I had a serious brainfart. But the point still stands that slots aren't rigged in the way that stacker machines are.

There is video projection and it's a game. So technically, yes, it's a video game. A shit one but still vidya nonetheless

>But the point still stands that slots aren't rigged in the way that stacker machines are.
Nobody said that
They were just compared to slots in the sense that you don't actually have control over when you win, at least slots don't lie about it though

fuck i remember making it to the final block like 20+ times when I was like 7 before i figured out it was rigged

source on rigging
not that i don't believe it, but i finally want to validate it

It's common knowledge, every prize game including claw machines has always worked like this
Anyone who's ever operated a venue with them knows about it

ohwow-arcade.com/Assets/Game_Manuals/STACKER.pdf
Page 8. If the game was pure skill based it wouldn't be programmable to have percentage payout based on income. An unscrupulous owner could make the machine impossible to win even shitty prizes.

I remember playing stacker a bunch at a theme park when I was young and getting to the very top like every time but always failing because it was rigged. I ran out of money and turned looked around and saw I had a small crowd watching me, and then some girl gave me a dollar to play for her because "she was bad at these kinds of things". I lost again obviously, but I just remember thinking then entire time "what do I do if I win? do I have to give her the psp since she spent the dollar? but I want the psp! can I just ask mom for a dollar and pay her back and keep the psp?"

Because you can win a (minor) prize every single game and winning one is skill-based, it's legal. That's literally why the crappy row of minor prizes exists, not because anyone actually wants them.

I wonder if there are any emulators of that shit that can let you train before you play the real thing.

There's nothing to train for, the game is 100% fucking rigged
Did you even read the thread

yet nobody has offered a solution or cheat

The 'solution' is to not play a blatantly rigged game.

The only "solution" is to open up the cabinet and reprogram it. But if you've got the keys to the thing you may as well just take a prize and walk away.

Probably because there isn't one?
The cheat is to not waste your money on a rigged game

Ive won quite a lot of times off of stacker, you just need to keep track of how many times people have played it. After a certain number of plays it is required to give out a prize.

>MINOR PRIZE VALUE – Approximately cost should be 20% of the price per play.
good riddance arcades are dead

i work at a theme park that has multiple stacker games and spin offs and yes you set it to x amount of plays until it becomes "winnable" and then somebody needs to be good enough to win it before they do a "monthly checkup" and reset the play count

they are also flimsy and morons hang the prizes inside so don't try to rock the machine and shake something loose, there's a game history so don't try knocking a prize loose and claiming the game malfunctioned they will absolutely not give you anything and you will risk getting caught vandalizing the machine

and don't bother ripping the door off they put fake boxes in there you have to claim the prize at the ticket exchange place.

the stacker attracts the most annoying crowd of pre teen shits i've ever seen. i'm so happy when they walk away empty handed

Wrong

Advantage play is a real thing and is why casinos kick you out if you're counting cards; WHEN you play decides everything, and you actually DO have control of that, despite all these people crying RIGGED!

Just let OTHER PEOPLE play it several hundred times. Sit around on a Friday for an hour at peak times (I know for a fact you have no Friday plans, Sup Forums) and just count the number of people who play. Write down what prizes are in the machine, and periodically check back till one of them disappears. Then, come back after your back of the envelope calculation tells you 800 or so people ought to have played it.

Then just spend, say, 3 bucks a day till another prize disappears, or you win; hell, if you feel like you ought to have won and didn't, don't even spend 3, just come back later.

Is it hard? Yeah, you'd probably be better off working a job. But, if you want borderline free shit, it's on you to hustle.

So just stand near it all day and watch people play, counting how many plays there are between prizes? I bet the owner would spot anyone trying to do this and told them to fuck off.

>sit around watching machine like a hawk
>some dipshit comes up, drops 50 bucks in coins into it
>ruins your equation
Bravo.

You only need an hour or so, see Since Stacker machines are usually near the front where there are benches or places you could sit, just pretend you're resting for a while, or buy a burger and eat it really slowly

It's a scam. You will only win if the machine lets you win.

That's the common sense "solution" but it's such a fucking waste of time and so unreliable that it's not even worth mentioning. This brings you closer, but it still won't guarantee you any value.
The real solution is to just not play.

Owners don't care, they get their money one way or another.
My arcade has an Initial D cabinet right next to the stacker machine for 25 cents a play so I just play that until Ive counted ~200 plays or so

just buy the damn prizes yourself, it's cheaper

Stackers is one of the easier ones. Try the string bullshit or the stick in the box, there's a fucking key one too.

It's basically a microtransaction simulator, so yes

>simulator
Nigga they were the ORIGINAL microtransaction.

By law (at least in the US) slot machines and video poker cannot be rigged. In other words, the owner cannot legally weight the results in any way other than what is clearly presented. This is strictly regulated by federal and state gambling laws.

Arcade games, on the other hand, are free game because their prizes officially hold no monetary value and are therefore not considered gambling (which is why children are allowed to play them).

I'm arguing against that it's rigged and therefore isn't worth playing. Just because a game has a time dependency doesn't mean you can't get better than even odds

Look, I'm not saying you can't refine the above math. You're can try to be clever and model the problem using statistics, perhaps a Poisson regression, in which you will attempt to derive through repeated measurement and intense study of player counts over multiple weeks, the lambda value which minimizes errors when random variable X represents the the day on which Stacker is won

...

But, if you can do that, you're probably already getting paid >= 50 bucks an hour (or should be, data science is very in demand right now) and sitting around a Stacker machine is probably an awful waste of time for you, so feel free not to.

Yup, those 1 cent rubber bracelets on the minor prize tier makes the whole thing legal.

Although half the time there aren't even minor prizes in the machine so you "win" nothing

>I'm arguing against that it's rigged and therefore isn't worth playing.
It's literally rigged by definition

>Just because a game has a time dependency doesn't mean you can't get better than even odds
These games don't have an exact consistent count between wins. The manual states around 400 plays per major prize. Do you really think it's viable to sit around until approximately 400 plays (which is incredibly unlikely to happen in the duration you're able to stand there watching like a fucking pedo) and then gamble bunch of credits on it? Remember that you get absolutely zero return on your investment until you win a prize, and that you also have to time it perfectly when the game enables a win.

Do you seriously think that's worth your time?
Just get a job and buy the fucking xbox, jesus

they actually revised Stacker to combat this, you can now set up a range of plays before payout, so instead of say 2000 plays before payout you can set it to 1000-3000 and the game will pick a random number in between the min and max as the payout threshold, so you can't guesstimate the payout threshold as easily.

You must be a brainlet. Have you ever got to the major prize and watched as you hit it so it actually lands on the square below only for it to (((magically))) (((slip))) off the square for you to lose?

The machine's manual outright states it.

>It's literally rigged by definition

So's blackjack. Doesn't change a thing for a sufficiently determined player, they will have their edge.

>Do you really think it's viable to sit around until approximately 400 plays

Honestly, yeah. These things are in bowling alleys, shopping malls, arcades, and you have plenty excuse to sit around for a while at any of the above, especially if you're spending money. Go buy a slice of pizza or something. Play Skee-ball. Wait around for less time if you're really concerned. In any case, be less self conscious about doing nothing; I can feel your nervous energy through the computer monitor.

If the interval settings don't overlap (they probably don't) you still have all the information you need for AP. Just take the median of the range you suspect it's in, and since you already know the game is rigged, nothing changed.

>blackjack
>rigged
Full retard.

>So's blackjack.
No, blackjack doesn't lie that it's a mechanical skill game. It's not hiding anything from you.

imagine having a job and earning enough to buy the prize in less time than it would take to stake out the machine and watch it like a hawk for hours until 300 people try to use it

>Just take the median of the range you suspect it's in, and since you already know the game is rigged, nothing changed.
And you're still gambling, the game is still rigged, and it's still not worth your money and absolutely fucking not worth your time.

>He can't count cards

>No, blackjack doesn't lie that it's a mechanical skill game

Given that basically everyone knows by now the game is rigged, is it /really/ lying, user, or are you just trying to get mad?

I never said it's worth YOUR time, I said it's worth a sufficiently determined player's time. If you've got 40 bucks to throw away because you're still a kid who's time rich and cash poor, and want a Switch or something, Stacker may be the only way you're going to ever get something like that. If a kid in that position wants to play the odds, he ought to know how best to do so, Bayes can be on his side.

Basically, don't assume because it's not worth your time or my time that this isn't worth it to someone.

>counting cards is rigging a game
Full metal retard.

>Given that basically everyone knows by now the game is rigged
Nothing about it is rigged. All its rules and mechanics are openly expressed. You're an idiot, you have no clue what rigged means

>I never said it's worth YOUR time, I said it's worth a sufficiently determined player's time.
It's not worth anyone's time to sit at an arcade literally all day and often not even get the numbers you need to start gambling with remotely decent odds.

>stacker owner defending his rigged shit this hard

Just because you have a higher probability to lose than you do to win (counting cards aside) does not mean the game is rigged.

What vis- I mean video games do you have for it?

Just because one side has an edge by default does not make the game rigged. My comparing the two is to say that "players get an edge in a similar manner, by choosing WHEN to play", rather than to call them both rigged, sorry for the confusion.

That said, blackjack IS rigged, but not in the way you think, that either side has an edge: the house can and will kick you out if you attempt, in their opinion, the only strategy even capable of making money at the game. The rigging is that the house can enforce its edge by force and there's nothing you can do.

>Nothing about it is rigged. All its rules and mechanics are openly expressed.
>Just because you have a higher probability to lose than you do to win (counting cards aside) does not mean the game is rigged.

We agree my dudes

I loved playing those things. Rigged as shit but you can get the small prizes through skill. They should to a mobile port with a thinly veiled gambling model.

I won my 3DS XL on my first dollar on a Key Master machine, so there IS an element of luck to it. Just not pure RNG

>Just because you have a higher probability to lose than you do to win (counting cards aside) does not mean the game is rigged.
That's literally not what "rigged" means.

No, it just means you happened to play at the right time to catch the payout threshold

What are you arguing that rigged means at this point, user?

that means he got lucky dingus

Stacker is still skill based.
It's just that player skill is entirely irrelevant except during the play in which the payout threshold was hit.

A rigged game is either lying to you about something, or it's actually impossible to win (which means it's lying to you about something).
It's common public knowledge that casino games pay out less than they take in, otherwise how would the house make any money? Slot machines even advertise how high (yet still below 100%) their payout is. You play blackjack knowing that the average over a massive number of games is a loss, but if you play a few good hands you can still make a profit and that's why you play it.

Stacker lies that it's a skill-based game, when in reality that's just an artificial interface for hidden gambling.

Yeah, luck
Just like how I won a pair of Beats from a separate machine that same week. I happened to be at the right game at the right time. That's luck.

It's amazing that this is the actual logic behind the law that says these games are legal and okay to present to children

>so there IS an element of luck to it. Just not pure RNG
Those are the same thing, what the fuck are you talking about
You were lucky enough for the clock to be on the right number for you to win

Why is it okay for kids to play a game that's rigged where only 1 in 100 players are allowed to win, but it's restricted gambling if there's always a 1 in 100 chance for anybody to win?

I got my first cell phone over a decade ago on one of those Lighthouse games. Was pretty cool.

Lootcrates. That is all.

There's no actual gameplay to these games because they're rigged to only pay out after a certain amount of money has been put in. It just looks like there's skill to it.

because gambling is 100% legal. it is only specific certain instances of gambling that are banned.

Because arcades say they don't pay out money. They pay out tokens or tickets. It's totally different.

Pure RNG would be "this machine will randomly pay out."
The way these work is "this machine pays out after X plays," as it has been said numerous times in this thread
It was by luck that I won, but not luck via RNG

youtube.com/watch?v=rqVrjp7DnXo

Claw machines are kinda cool once you understand how they work.

Rule of thumb is to try and find older ones are more fair and certain brands are less likely to be rigged (apparently Sega's UFO Catchers and a few other SEGA arcade games aren't rigged)

Prizes that have a decent value, like a PSP or a 3DS, brand name dolls like Simpson dolls or Family guy or whatever, tend to be rigged.

I know for a fact Stacker is rigged as shit because I've seen that blip jump across the final block when there's NO WAY it could have.

In the UK there is actually certain slots kids are allowed to played. They are limited in terms of coin in and payout but you can play a normal slot in a kids arcade.

When you show up and what count the machine on is effectively RNG in the context of you playing the game.
Nobody has claimed that the machines are RNG, the first few posts in the thread are explaining how the machine doesn't just roll a number because that could lose the operators a lot of money.

youtube.com/watch?v=vXBfwgwT1nQ

Arcade prize machines will be the only thing to save us from the robot overlords.

most machines are variable payback so whatever restrictions or bias is left for owner to decide how much.

Is there a site for Simulation or emulation of arcade games ir oacgubji other then video games like MAME?

> how would the house make any money?

Same way arcades do.

Think about it mathematically, at arcades, the games are game of skill (or at least the ones I'm talking about are), the tickets buy prizes, and the prizes are worth money. This means if a ticket on the most expensive prize is worth k cents, if you can obtain it, on average, for k-j cents where j is non-negative, you by definition are making money playing games of skill.

>otherwise how would the house make any money?

All the other marks who don't know the above, or tried and can't do the above, presumably. Works fine for arcades.

So, why is it rigging currently? Well, If a casino can't make money with its games, it's more than within its right to change the odds to a game: the lie that makes it rigging is that the published odds are not what the casino is actually willing to pay out: if you're too consistent at winning them or not playing shitty, they throw your ass out.

Stacker doesn't lie that it's a skill based game, if you're gonna argue from common knowledge I'm gonna do the same and call you out; basically everyone knows stalker is rigged. It's gambling, but my point is its gambling you can get an edge on and if you know how, no one will stop you if you try.

The best fun you can have with stacker is clearing out all the minor prizes

Then why do they have pokie/video slots emulators?

it's not. Atlantic City and Vegas just legalized skill based games recently. Most coin op amusements are regulated as specific exemptions.

>if you're gonna argue from common knowledge I'm gonna do the same and call you out; basically everyone knows stalker is rigged.
Bullshit. First of all, you've never actually seen normies play this game if you think everyone knows it's rigged, but primarily, the point is that information is not public in any way.

Casinos literally tell you their slots payout rate, and blackjack is just drawing from decks of cards so you know exactly what it is. Nothing's hidden from you there, but Stacker is absolutely hiding information from you.

If a blackjack table used incomplete decks to tip the odds from what is publicly known, THEN it would be rigged.

For compulsive gamblers to get their fix when they're not able to be at the casino. It's not training.

Probably because that post was talking about Stacker and not video poker, you fucking retard

>Think about it mathematically, at arcades, the games are game of skill (or at least the ones I'm talking about are), the tickets buy prizes, and the prizes are worth money. This means if a ticket on the most expensive prize is worth k cents, if you can obtain it, on average, for k-j cents where j is non-negative, you by definition are making money playing games of skill.
Also, this is all completely irrelevant bullshit when I'm talking about blackjack and what's public about it.

>Not public
>In a thread about it

Wew.

That said I’ll give you the “it’s not commonish knowledge”, otherwise, why are the other 799 marks playing before you?

these niggers intentionally skip blocks at the higher levels

>Think about it mathematically, at arcades, the games are game of skill (or at least the ones I'm talking about are), the tickets buy prizes, and the prizes are worth money. This means if a ticket on the most expensive prize is worth k cents, if you can obtain it, on average, for k-j cents where j is non-negative, you by definition are making money playing games of skill.
What the fuck does the way arcades make money have to do with how casinos make money? Casinos don't have tickets, it's just money.

>Not public
>In a thread about it
>Wew.
What the fuck are you talking about? What does this thread have to do with how the game publicly presents itself? Are you just shitposting at this point?

>I bet the owner would spot anyone trying to do this and told them to fuck off.

Why? To the owner it literally doesn't matter who wins, they know that somebody will and your money is just as good as the next guy's.

Because if the same neckbeard steps out of the shadows and wins every time, the regular people will stop playing and putting money in.