Enter the Gungeon

Why do we hate this game again? And by we I mean Sup Forums.

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slower Nuclear Throne

This. I had more fun when I used Cheat Engine to speed the game up.
Also Pilot's starting weapon is shit, entirely unsatisfying to use and is why I never beat all the 4 main pasts.

It's just really slow and boring. Nuclear throne is also really boring however so I think the genre is more an issue than the speed. The genre is shit.

It's a good game but it's most glaring problem is weapon variety. In Nuclear Throne and BoI most weapons and upgrades greatly change how the game is played and each weapon feels unique.

In EtG, all the weapons have identical damage output so you may as well just use whatever starting gun you have. Upgrades have too small of an upgrade to change gameplay. A starting character and an end game character are nearly the same in damage output and suitability. If they want to make it stand out more they need more powerful weapons and more varied upgrades even if that can be used to break the game. Each run feels the same because there is no item variety.

Outright worse than similar games. The most common comparisons between Isaac and Radioactive Chair.
The former offers way more combinations that yield strong, yet enjoyable runs while the latter offers a much more enjoyable twitch action experience with guns you actually wanna shoot.
Gungeon tries too hard to make the game unfun. Sure, you can attribute it to "git gud," but at the end of the day, "gitting gud" at Gungeon isn't fun like it is in many other games, not just Rogue-lites.
>The game actively punishes you for getting lucky and getting good loot by applying a MASSIVE chance for A/S-rank loot to downgrade by 1 level and this increases further with each A/S-rank item collected
>The Heart of Ice (Shit) is also a possible drop in both A AND S Tier and fucking sucks
>You get little to no Shells from an enemy if they hit you
>You are discouraged from using anything but your basic peashooter for the first 2-3 floors due to ammo scarcity and the fact bossing with your basic gun is nauseatingly boring to the point you fuck up from falling asleep
>To buy anything besides a key/health on the first floor will either require extreme luck or every single fucking Shell after not getting hit (and then you probably won't be going to the Oubliette)
>You face the same basic bitch Bullet Kin and Shotgun Kin (mixed in with stronger shit on later floors, but still there) for the first 3 Floors
>Each floor is ridiculously long
>Everything is a bullet sponge
I saw an interesting comparison to Our Darker Purpose the other day that was somewhat apt.

i don't
it's the game i hate the least of these i want to be the isaac games

I like Nuclear Throne's mechanics, but it also has practically zero variety from one run to another, which isn't a good thing for a roguelike.

>Why do we hate this game again?
"We" don't. It's great.

Because it does everything it can to make the game as slow as possible. Enemies become bullet sponges in later floors and the game refuses to give you increased damage output to compensate for this. Sure, there's plenty of items to increase fire rate, but this is a pretty shitty trade off in a game with limited ammo available.

Other games in the genre have a much better payoff for less time invested. Fuck flailing around uselessly as a bunch of shitty bullet sponge enemies from the first floor flood the room.

Pilot is probably one of the most OP characters. Which basically means it's a git gud issue.

I beat the game as the other 3 starting characters, and one of the secret characters. I shouldn't have to wait for the game to get fun.

You're really bad if you couldn't do it with pilot.

Do you have a link to the comparison? I've played both games and I'd be curious to read

>Nuclear Throne
Now THIS is a shit game.

youtube.com/watch?v=JyEE6hz9Vgg

I could do it, but I don't want to spend time with that shitty fucking pistol.

ODP is the kind of game where I really like the setting and premise of the game, but don't really like the gameplay, and I like similar games.

How so?

don't have an opinion? just quote a random youtube celebrity faggot

>First ten seconds of video is just complete silence
What the hell is wrong with him?

Took a sec to find it, but I did. I remembered it a bit wrong tho.
boards.fireden.net/v/thread/404128769/#404151049

Thanks.

>Boring as fuck
>Shit weapons
>Terribly programmed
>30 fps

>People that put in the time are able to do 150+ streaks
>Most (not all) of the complaints are that the game is too hard and you constantly get shit on by RNG

It's the same as Isaac. If you put the time in, you can win damn near every single run you do, regardless of RNG. If you don't find it fun though, that's fine.

neo Sup Forums is shit at games, what do you expect?

Isn't Nuclear Throne 30fps game?

Yet it's still faster.

>The game is too hard

Literally nobody says this, the problem is playing Gungeon optimally is fucking boring.

>random e-celeb wasn't good enough to unlock any of the secret levels
>a shocker!

Considering that there's more secret and extra levels than there are actual levels, why would you shit on your own credibility like that? The game isn't perfect by any means, but this guy doesn't have a fucking clue what he's talking about.

yep, it's hideous and hard to stay awake

I suck ass and can only go as far as the 3rd floor, usually

they like overpowered runs in these games

I like it, but I've only played the Switch version which apparently already has some of the QoL updates that are going to be in the Advanced Gungeons and Draguns update.

>Oubliette
>That second one for placing the Crest I forget the name of
>Bullet Hell
That's 3. There's 5 main levels plus the ending (which isn't a secret.)

>devs working on Switch patches instead of the game-improving update that was announced half a year ago
What the fuck are they thinking?

"I want money.'

>like nuclear throne's gameplay
>but 14fps gives u a headache

Honestly, what genuine roguelike player DOESN'T enjoy when their game snowballs? Are there any Angband players who, when they get to the point where the only thing that can possibly harm them is a vault filled with every unique enemy in the game, get upset at how little the game is challenging them?

thirty
frames
per
second

>Honestly, what genuine roguelike player DOESN'T enjoy when their game snowballs?
Me? And anyone literally not shit at games.

>literally twice as fast as nuclear throne
>isn't made by some goobergraper mudslime
Um, sweetie, Gungeon wins this one.

>like
All of them.
>lite
None of them.

ive 100%'d isaac twice and put like 1k hours in it, i got gungeon on christmas sale and have been playing it like crazy since
i think it's quite good, the one thing i like about it over isaac is that there is a significantly lower amount of shitty items bloating the pool (i havent even unlocked everything yet). i dont see why people wouldn't like it
the inherent flaw with this genre is that playing any of them optimally generally means sring until you get something insanely busted really early on
in isaac this can be, say, first treasure room magic mush/cricket's head
from my gungeon experience thus far getting a black or gold chest on f1 that would have something like the mega buster is basically a confirmed run
either way, i enjoy them both. if nuclear throne had actually went on sale during christmas i would have considered getting it too

>slogging through tedium where nothing can challenge you to get your win screen is supposed to be fun
The absolute state of neo-nu-Sup Forums casuals.

don't kid yourself gungeon moves like fucking molasses compared to nuclear throne

No, it's shit really.

Pacing issues. Which developers decided to double down on, billing their game as an endurance test.

Which has its audience, sure.

Honestly, most of the issues come with time. Everything is good and stays good until you beat the final boss, and then when you go to do it again you realize nothing changed.

Every single boss is a scripted, pattern-based fight, and once you figure out the script and the patterns nothing is really threatening anymore. You only get hit by personal mistakes, not by being overwhelmed or by something you never expected. Every single boss plays the exact same, you dodge the attacks and you aim directly at them with whatever gun and your entire build boils down to dps and range/spread and nothing more. There's nothing new to do, no challenges, and eventually you find yourself looking forward more to random enemy arrangements in various rooms than you do the boss at the end of the floor.

Frame rate isn't the same as game speed, brainlet.

>implying rocket tag against nightmarish bundles of exotic damage isn't fun after an hour or two of walking diagonally to get free hits against interchangeable melee mobs

Nah, he's actually played a lot of roguelites, many which are actually harder and have more secret areas in their respective games. The difference being that the others at least have better pacing or balance. Gungeon is the roguelite for people too scared to play better ones. youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbl542Qxaop8WZYITuHR59859zxxtd_Ci

The Switch version sold a lot better than they expected, so they figured they should fix game breaking bugs it had.

It's the best of the twinstick roguelites.

It's a slog. Devs are supposedly working on the SECOND overhaul patch that's supposed to speed it up, even though their brainlet fans keep saying there's "nothing wrong" with the current state of the game. Then they'll pretend the game gets fixed when the patch comes out, even though there was nothing to fix according to them prior. For the second time.

>gungeon isn't the most difficult roguelike
Let me guess, the ecelebs you parrot opinions from instead of playing games yourself gave up before they unlocked any of the hardmodes?

the game goes out of its way to demo new unlocks

I agree. One of the biggest flaws of Enter the Gungeon is all the fucking horrible items. There are so many shit tier items it's not even funny. And there's no way of locking them, they'll keep on appearing.

I've had runs in which I'm using the fucking super soaker against the last boss and all my passives have been complete shit. And in some games you find metronome, sixth chamber and clone on the first floor and you just restart, because you already won.

Please play do a Legend Fragment Towerclimb run.

>Nuclear Throne
Then just use a shortcut to the second chamber and get a gun instantly. You miss all the loot of first chamber but surely such a skilled and experienced player such as yourself can handle it.

I was talking about Gungeon, not Nuclear Throne. That's why I was talking about Pasts and said 3 other starting characters.

fpbp
even with its framerate, NT is still the best top-down roguelite out there. definitely a pleb filter, that game. if it had an uncapped framerate it would surpass Spelunky and take the #1 spot. unforunately I doubt we'll ever see a revision (even though Hyper Light Drifter, a much more complex game, was manually patched from 30fps to 60fps. god vlambeer are such damn babies)

>regular mob health increases linearly with dungeon depth, but not with player strength
>every room has 3+ waves of enemies
>poor weapon progression (exacerbated by complaint #1)
>starting weapon is inherently inaccurate and does poor damage
>ponderous walk speed that devs tried (and failed) to mitigate with room to room warping
>floors are surprisingly large for how weak player character always is and for how often enemies spawn (exacerbated by previous point)
I like the aesthetic and the supposed mission statement, but it's like they went out of their way to make the game as tedious as possible.

>he can't beat the last boss with the super soaker
become quality

The weapons you slowly unlock suck dick and run out of ammo anyway.
You hold out on finding cool shit for so long and then you dont even fucking use it when you find it because the starting gun gets the job done anyway.
I'm not going to complain that the weapons aren't effective enough, but the main selling point of any rogue like is using the shit you find.
If you have a rogue like game with unsatisfying items tools, then what is the fucking point?
Would CAN play binding of isaac and beat it without a single upgrade, but that sounds boring, right? Well that's what Gungeon is.
Also using the dodge roll is fucking worthless because you just end up rolling into something other projectile. But that isn't a difficulty complain.
If manually dodging by strafing is more efficient, then why is it in the fucking game at all? "push space to jump over gaps every once and a while".
Gungeon is a such a cool concept with shitty execution.

the game is completely at odds with itself
enemy patterns are designed like an old shmup but you have full movement around the map, a zelda health bar and an invincible roll meaning you're not encouraged to move through patterns so much as take pot shots from a distance and roll when shit gets heated
randomized weapons mean you'll have to rely on a horrible slow pea shooter because you need to conserve ammo in a fucking bullet hell game

Is this the roguelite thread?

t.

Gungeon is an action-oriented dungeon crawler while Nuclear Throne is a twinstick arcade shooter. The two might be similar but they cannot be compared.

Why don't I just lay my dick on my left mouse button and beat it with a hammer to shoot?

yes they can you absolute mong, if gungeon is a dungeon crawler then it is a very braindead one.

Well that's probably just it. When I think of action-oriented dungeon crawler, I'm thinking of Ys - and Gungeon is nowhere near that level of action, but has about the same level of dungeon interactivity (aka fucking nothing) that something like a Wizardry clone has.

so crawl and isaac are better than gungeon yes? are they also capable of local multiplayer?

I agree with you, but I imagine the dodge is for when shots may overlap in a way that's otherwise unavoidable. Not just parts where the game says you need to dodge, but also when RNG or other situations may present unintended packs of bullets.

enemies are all damage sponges and make the game boring and slow

Yes, but Isaac is fucking terrible with local co-op and Crawl is fucking terrible without local players.

Please do a Blessed + Cursed + Double Challenge Gungeon run.

Crawl is a party game so yeah it got local mutiplayer and issac has mutiplayer with a mod (antibirth) that is better then the dlc

what's wrong with isaac's multi

also I am getting both for switch, that okay

>that okay
Do whatever you want. Are you a slave or something?

Issac mutiplayer is not great without the mod in normal issac the player 2 is a random baby that can't pick up items and with the mod its real mutiplayer

>especially with its framerate, NT is still the worst top-down roguelite out there.
definitely

Why does he have a picture of Ellen Page in every thumbnail?

>Nuclear Throne is a twinstick arcade shooter.
lmao absolutely not, the absolute state of neo Sup Forums. nuclear throne is a flash game. anyone calling it arcade anything has never played an arcade game.

who are you quoting?

so I guess crawl for now then, I wanted local multi

any other recommendations?

I'll list off my gripes with Gungeon
Gungeon:
>Repetitive weapons. Most are upgrades, sidegrades, or even downgrades of an existing gun. If you've used Charge Gun/Shotgun/Laser/etc weapon #1, you've used their nth variant as well.
>Chest system is inconsistent and can either make your run fantastic because a red chest spawned on the first floor, or terrible because you've gotten nothing but brown chests with meme weapons/pickups all the way to the end of the gungeon. You can get around this with skill, of course, but that doesn't mean that the run is less unpleasant as a result.
>Unpleasant experience for Marine and Pilot. This is merely an opinion but those two seem to have gotten the short sticks for the base four characters. Pilot not getting a weapon from a chest/shop means you're stuck with an abhorrent gun until you kill the boss of the chamber, and Marine in general is just mediocre.
>Seriously, for what purpose is Marine's active a single-use item? I get that other characters can pick it up but he shouldn't be limited to one use when he uses it.

I don't hate the game but it has flaws that I do not like. A lot of people dislike them a lot more than I do, but I've played worse games.

No, you are the retard. Most flash games were described with the term when they were popular in 2005, and it doesn't detract from the fact that NT is a twinstick arcade shooter.

gungeon is only fun once you unlock the bulletkin

I don't know about switch games but for PC risk of rain is my favorite Rougelite FTL is good in concept but you can get impossible runs Rouge legacy is fun I've heard that Spelunky is good

>game is only fun when you unlock the casual mode
Really forces one to ponder...

You're weird, when I played I instantly determined the Hunter and Convict were garbage compared to Marine and Pilot. Marine's starter gun is so good and he reloads faster and Pilot gets a TON of free shit.

Yeah already have those in my PC and enjoyed most of them.

people who critcize gungeon are usually bad at video games

It's pretty much the exact opposite since Hunter and Convict start with extra guns to swap with while their starter gun reloads.

Convict and Huntress have stronger starts, which is the most important part of the run. Both have guns that fire faster if you tap rather than hold down the fire key, and their secondary weapons can oneshot bulletkin on the first floor. Molotovs are also pretty good, which is something I learned when I found a Molotov Gun.

I get that Pilot is a long-run character, but that doesn't mean jack shit to me since he just feels unpleasant to use in the beginning. Also, I never use the lockpick since it fails for me too often.

>fact
cool meme underaged kiddo, have a (You). for anyone out there that is curious Nex Machina is an actual example of an arcade twinstick.

Well, alright. Have fun having fun, I guess.

Ah so you have no reasons at all. K.

>Convict and Huntress have stronger starts, which is the most important part of the run
if you're actually good at the game the start is the least important part of the run, it's basically just 20 minutes of filler