Best brother ever right here

Best brother ever right here

I like that the main characters are designed for almost every job in their art.

#Truth

The only people who fall for the
>Marche was the villain
meme are people who haven't played FFTA.

FFTA3 WHEN?

>No brother to try to murder me on the pretence of dragging me back to horrid reality

>it's okay to genocide an entire universe if you learn that they weren't real SIX MONTHS (one day per step on the world map) after you decided to genocide them

He never made the argument as to why the real world was better

He was dead set on killing the world before he even knew about all the sinister Li-Grim shit tho

>people that think Marche is a villain all hate their lives and wish they could live in a fantasy world forever rather than confront their problems in the real world.
prove me wrong

>destroys dream worlds so people have to face their own shit like a man
I, the best Kamen Rider agree with him

Why didnt it happen on 3DS?

Which kamen rider?

>B-but he didn't know he was right until the creator of the world confirmed that he was right!
OK. He was still right.

Well for one there's the poor saps that got killed or turned into monsters. Mewt and co. aren't the only ones affected by the change. There's also Marche's mom who is shown to be worrying over her missing children. Mewt replacing his dad's memories + personality and replacing his mom with an illusion is just icing on the unhealthy relationship cake.

Ritz is literally only there to cheap out on hair dye.

Because Ivalice was a world that restructured itself to Mewt's desires. If Mewt didn't like something or someone, you can be sure that the world would personally shit on them, like those bullies who were transformed into zombies.

Mewt was a tyrannical little shit and his behaviour would have only gotten worse as time went on. Imagine if he hit puberty in Ivalice and his mother/son incest fetish came out in full force.

Wizard

>Imagine if he hit puberty in Ivalice and his mother/son incest fetish came out in full force.
This only makes me hate Marche more desu

Go on...

Truth before comfort.

What's up with all the FFTA threads recently.
The game's been on the backlog for a while, so I may be out of the loop.
Was somehting announced?

>Imagine if he hit puberty in Ivalice and his mother/son incest fetish came out in full force.
I see...so Marche is the true villain

WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY TO ME

cute lizard

Lizard

It's a good game that still needs discussion about Marche and Newt.

>Marche wants to destroy the world to bring everyone back from their escapist reality
>Ritz, Doned, Mewt, and Cid all get involved with this plot somehow because they're from St. Ivalice
>Remedi is the manifestation of Mewt's desire to keep this world and the memory of his mother, so is related to the plot
>Babus is the manifestation of Mewt's teddy bear
>Llednar is the manifestation of Mewt's dark side, trusting only himself after Babus betrays him
>The exception to this is Montblanc, who just wants to help his friend and accepts that he'll die when the world is destroyed
>He still remembers Marche in FFTA2

One thing you should've learned by now is that fantasy worlds are never truly destroyed if you remember and keep them in your heart.

A world of Rabbit sluts.

Why are you implying this is a bad thing?

So in other words they would have been fine and Marche was wrong?

The game explicitly keeps going after killing Li-Grim because the souls of the people in the world want it to continue. Only the St. Ivalice squad left.

They didn't have to leave, and Montblanc couldn't, so he goes on and is in FFTA2 .

The fact that the world continues to exist proves Marche is the villain.

user, the postgame stuff is noncanon, they all went back, not just Mewt. And that world wasn't even real, it might as well have been a shared dream between the human world and the real Ivalice, so Montblanc remembers his friend from his dream.

At the very end of the game, the following conversation occurs:

Mewt: I wonder if this Ivalice will just disappear...
Cid: A good question. If we wish, the world will change... Likewise, perhaps if those wish it enough, they will remain. Though we from the other world may never come back.

This is not ambiguous. Marche's involvement in the postgame is noncanon, but the existence of this Ivalice is stated right there and later on by Montblanc's appearance in other games.

When can you begin to recruit members in FFTA2? I have Adelle now.

But you're right? Why would I deal with real world problems when I could be busting bandits with my totema bros?

Jesus Christ, Raimi seriously?

Adelle's all you need.

>Immediate cut to scene showing various characters vanishing
Also Mateus is a completely different Scion, so it can't be the same world or the same Montblanc. Plus, he'd remember if there was a royal lineage of all Ivalice, like how Mewt set up the world as, when in reality Ivalice is controlled by many different nations, and he's just Dalmascan.

It's a version of the same world. Mewt using the Gran Grimoire did two things:

1. Transported St. Ivalice folks to actual Ivalice
2. Altered existing Ivalice to accommodate for St. Ivalice folks, particularly in high positions

When the spell was broken, the Ivalice of before was to be restored. But this didn't need to happen. The altered Ivalice was just as functional as the pre-existing Ivalice it was born of. Had Marche never took it upon himself to restore the previous order, it would have just been the new form of Ivalice.

The people who disappeared were lost in the transition between the Ivalices. Montblanc was not, but he transitioned back to the life he had in the non-altered Ivalice. He's different because the reality-warping magic of the Grimore is gone. But that memory still remained.

Are those knee-nickels?
And is that a giant pizza cutter as a sword?
And what's with the five cell phones in his holster?

>not keeping knee nickles to tip your pizza guy after ordering uncut pizzas from 5 different phones

That's an incredibly convoluted explanation for a fictional world based on the Final Fantasy game the main characters were playing at the time, especially when Remedi says right before that the world is an illusion and you can hold it in your hand and still hold nothing. It seems more likely that the Gran Grimoire just created an idealized dreamscape for the people who wrote their names in the book, but deposited everyone into the dream regardless.

Based on Doned explaining how to defeat Adrammelech in the end, I'd say that Final Fantasy game was probably Final Fantasy Tactics

>uncut pizzas
>implying Marche doesn't circumcise his pizzas
OY VEY, SHUT IT DOWN

The proof for it is the end of FFTA2. After going to the actual (as in FF12) Ivalice with a Grimoire, Luso returns to St. Ivalice, and talks to Mewt, who lets him keep the book.

This means Mewt's Grimoire and Luso's are the same, and therefore have the same abilities. So the question has to be asked: Why did Mewt using the grimoire change Ivalice, but Luso using it did not?

Mewt hates St. Ivalice. Luso's just a typical kid. Mewt tapped into the power of the Grimoire more than Luso did, which meant that Ivalice had to be altered to suit him. Ivalice, as it was, suited Luso.

Remedi is right: the FFTA Ivalice is an illusion. It's still the real Ivalice, but distorted by the Grimoire's power into something different. It isn't "real" because there's a pre-existing Ivalice, but it's real because people live in it and go about their affairs. Marche had no need to end it.

>Marche had no need to end it.
>despite living in illusion
Just because it works for Mewt and Doned doesn't mean it works for everyone else

You're assuming that the town is St. Ivalice, and that the Grimoire of the Rift is the same tome as the Gran Grimoire. I'd think Lezaford would recognize the Gran Grimoire if the book Luso had was really that one.

One has the power to create and destroy a world, and the other merely transports someone to another world instead. They aren't the same.

Damn the writing in FFTA is so good, people still argue about it.
Marche was right, this is fact. The entire point is the power of friendship and overcoming difficulties rather than hiding in fantasies.
In other words, stop self inserting in video games and actually do something with your life, you useless NEETs.
Everything else is just flavour.

being a NEET is doing something though

What is the definition of "works"? It's a society. Doned was ahead, as was Mewt, Cid, and Ritz. The zombie children from the playground unfortunately died, but it's just an existence.

Marche unilaterally decided that, because he remembered a different world and met people from it who also remembered it, that he had to tear down the world he lived in (that had other people in it besides him and the St. Ivalice crew) in the hopes it would return to the thing he remembered.

Marche, as the player, strives to destroy all of creation because he remembers it being different. Ivalice lives on in the souls of those who chose to continue (like Montblanc), but the risk of destroying a world in an effort to get the old one back (and not care about the consequences to the current world's inhabitants) is something only a villain would do.

Mewt seized power for him and his family. He didn't try to destroy the world.

The librarian is obviously Mewt (or a descendant, I suppose), so even if it isn't St. Ivalice, it's the same book, unless he got another one in his life at some point.

That's one ugly dog.

>there will never be a FFTA game with faster gameplay
its not fair bros

FFTA3 on 3DS would've been perfect years ago.

The school librarian is explictly Mewt, it's a cameo. But it doesn't mean he's working in the St. Ivalice school. But that's completely irrelevant anyway.

Top here is the Gran Grimoire, bottom is the Grimoire of the Rift. Mewt collected the second book in the years after he returned from the events in FFTA. They aren't the same, and checking again Lezaford specifically identifies Luso's book as the Grimoire of the Rift, which has the power to close rifts.

It's still a world full of suffering. The only difference is that they're the main characters.

I've never played FFT on anything but an emulator. I would probably hate this shit if I played with the real speed.

seriously, what was the point of this art style...

You know what the point is.

They do look different, I'll cede that. Let's assume Luso's book is different, and cannot warp reality like Mewt's original book.

This means that the book from actual Ivalice ends up in Mewt's possession (as you said). Ivalice has to exist in a reality where Mewt also exists for this to be true, otherwise he couldn't meet Luso/be the librarian/etc.

We are now confronted with two scenarios:

1. Mewt's book warped reality, as I stated previously
2. Mewt's book did not warp reality, but this was in a universe/dimension where Ivalice actually existed, so it created a dream Ivalice.

In either scenario, there is not actually a problem with continuing to exist in Ivalice for anyone (relative to normal existence in St. Ivalice).

Mewt's Ivalice, be it reality-warped or a dream based on reality, is still an existence. It still has souls, people with hopes and dreams. The St. Ivalice crew all came to Ivalice, and all but Marche accepted it as a new reality. Marche did not.

Marche felt he was entitled to the old reality. He wanted it back because it was "before", nothing more. Babus explains this in chapter 1 to him, but Marche has no answer.

Babus: Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this "other world" worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?

Marche: Well, I...

Babus: What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?

Marche is reckless. He has no purpose for his actions beyond his drive to see another reality put in place, and he endangers the reality (which, to him, is perfectly valid in terms of seeming "real") of millions for his memories. He is the villain of the story. He threatens world destruction.

Is it wrong I want a gag dub of this game by PurpleEyes?

How do we know the world we live in right now isn't an illusion? :thinkingemoji:

>FFTA is actually as deep as the Matrix

>But it doesn't mean he's working in the St. Ivalice school.

Actually guess what. We know what St Ivalice's crest is, and it's on the school uniforms (and also Marche's knee shields

But he was willing to sacrifice people because of his dream.

AND Luso wears that same uniform (and said symbols are also on the same shields he has on his ivalice outfit)

In the same pose as Marche, with the Gran Grimoire.

Oh, so you're an escapist apologist. You should've just said so in the first place instead of meander around about the worlds. And it seems evident that everyone was deposited anyway but lost their memories, cause Cid didn't remember anything until he was shown a vision of his old life, and the school bullies can be found as zombies and vampires. They're alive again in the ending, so they were taken back too. It wasn't just the four kids + Cid that were warped in.

Neat, I didn't even notice the school crest. Guess Mewt really did stay in St. Ivalice after all.

Post your Ritz

>people laughing at you for having white hair
wew

This isn't an escapist situation, except for Mewt and his family. The Ivalice portrayed in FFTA is a real world, with animals, people, society, and so on. It is different from St. Ivalice, but it is not less valid.

Like I said before, Mewt seized power in the new world. However, this does not mean it is inherently worthless. There were thousands, if not millions of beings in that world that were just as real as Ritz, Doned, or anyone else from St. Ivalice. Marche wanted to get home, even if it meant destroying the world those beings (including Montblanc) live in.

Escapism doesn't work when it's drugs, alcohol, video games, or anything else. A pocket dimension/altered reality is not escapism, it is a different version of the same thing. Marche wanted to destroy a reality that many people lived in because he wanted a different one. He acts with villainous intent throughout the game, because he is selfish.

Is it okay if I would have thought the entire cast was girls from the art? Plus I thought Marche was pronounced March, like the girl's name. Mewt's ivalice outfit also doesn't help

They show up on the map randomly and what race you get depends on the region and month.

seriously how can I not

moogles are cute

Best girl.

its one of the earlier game I did a 100%
>300+ quest total

>Escapism doesn't work when it's drugs, alcohol, video games, or anything else.
>A pocket dimension/altered reality is not escapism
Need I remind you again that the illusory Dream Ivalice they created was based on the Final Fantasy video game they were playing at the time? It's not real, it was a dream created overnight as they slept. Marche and his friends were the only ones lucid within the dream. And when Mewt destroyed the dream, everyone woke up.

It's just funny because the problems some were running away from were really superficial, mostly Ritz and her self consciousness of her white hair.

Still, people will always point out Doned and being able to walk in Ivalice.

So it's based on the game and not real... but it's in a universe where Ivalice is real (which is where the book came from and came into Mewt's possession).

It's a simulacrum of Ivalice, created (or altered from the original) to suit Mewt. There is no reason to destroy it.

If existence has any value, it has value in any of its forms (relative to sentience). The beings of Ivalice, be they created or altered by magic, have thoughts, feelings, and free will. They interact with "real" humans (i.e. those from a different reality) without any problems.

Marche decides that these beings do not have the right to exist. He wants Mewt to "grow up" and face his other reality, at the expense of all the beings of Ivalice. He is told, over and over, that the crystals are the thread of the world and that destroying them will destroy the world. He presses on, sacrificing an entire world to make his friend more mature. That is villainous behavior.

So Montblanc is all one moogle right? Why the fuck is he even in FF12

I think I'm gonna jump in here. Marche is not intended as a villain in his game. He kinda becomes a villain mostly due to just plain bad writing. But he also kinda doesn't because the plot says he's right, which is the problem.

To start off, the connection with FFTA2 should be ignored. The story connection was clearly not intended to be a concept in the original game, or else the world wouldn't have been an 'illusion' in the first place. The point of the first game was a message about escapism, and undermining your point by having the 'escaped to' world be anything real is fucking stupid. It was likely added because Square Enix wanted to make money, and they decided to try pushing the 'Ivalice Alliance', which, considering how many games they made for it after TA2/XII, clearly did not work out like they wanted.

Now, as far as FFTA is concerned, Marche effectively starts out as a 'scared' boy removed from his world and put into a weird fantasy one that was like his video games. So, of course he's gonna look for a route home, that makes sense. Plus, the world is actually intended to be an illusion, so putting a stop to it isn't the worst idea in history. The problem is that, as far as I recall, he's never written as really caring about why people want to stay or the possibility of the world being real. He only focuses on getting home, and then once he gets close to that the plot justifies his actions for him instead of him having any kind of moral dilemma or having spent time figuring out what for sure that this is just an illusion. He's still just a selfish kid who wants to go home, while also serving as a mouth piece for the 'escapism is bad' story. I mean, you could maybe argue they did a good job of writing him as a child, but that doesn't really work well with the plot itself. He needed to develop over time and present strong reasoning to back his own side, instead of the plot justifying his side for him, even if he's a bit young for that.

Montblanc is a real person in FFTA2/12, with his siblings like Hurdy and Gurdy

the one in FFTA was a dream version of him, but I believe the real one has that vague deja vu memory deal about Marche.

Well, yeah. Ritz was a great character for the escapism story in the game. Doned really wasn't. Mewt was kinda iffy, but could work. His problems really should have been the worst of the group, though.

I think this is all valid, but I've not ever been one to have an interest in the "intent" of an artist.

Marche is obviously not the villain in the story in terms of the creator's intention. He's the hero! However, the way the game unfolds and the writing reveal him to act in a truly malicious way. He is the villain by virtue of his selfish actions, despite the fact he was written to be a hero and was proven right at the end.

Art is meant to be interpreted. If video games are art, and I think they are, the creator's intent beyond the things in the game needs to be discarded when searching for meaning. When I play FFTA, I see a great story about existentialism, reality and escapism (and what that means). That's why I think Marche is the villain, not because the creator of the game thinks he is.

Nigga, it's a JRPG. Of course everyone looks like girls

mewt's problems were actually kind of bad, even getting past the moving on from his mother's death part.

His dad is a bum, a drunk, and neglects him. he has no friends and is bullied at school. Wanting his mother back was a coping mechanism for wanting his life to be stable again.

>Marche stole chocolate bunnygirl warriors from us and forced us to settle for filthy 3d women
>not the villain
>not literally worse than Hitler

Reminder that you've no better chance in fantasy land at getting laid than you do in real life

Not if you use the Gran Grimoire to create a world where everyone wants your dick

You might as well be beating off to VR porn

Couldn't you say that about actual sex

>Point of FFTA was escapism even if it ewas magic
>2 just has a book that transports you to Ivalice with no drawbacks. Luso's problem was just avoiding rabbit poon long enough to get back.

It's safe to say that 2 was just a soulless cash in. A pretty one but still a cash in.

Welp, better kill everyone in my way until someone confirms my theory.

No
Can you?

The thing with Luso's is that time didn't even tick in his world so even though the Grimoire of the Rift had a way for him to escape his boring summer school shit, he still has to go to summer school like a chump

2 has great job variety/missions, though. Truly a great game, even if the plot is dull.

I dunno whether it was just oblivious writers or bad translation but I love that the plot is unintentionally deep. Of course you can just take it at face value and accept that Marche is right, the world is fake and evil and probably sucking everyone's souls and needs to be destroyed. But its so much more interesting to interpret it otherwise because the game doesn't really do a good job of showing how Marche is right, he really does come off as a selfish kid trying to ruin everyone's happiness in a world he can't even prove is fake.

The best parts of the story are Marche's conversations with Babus.
>Babus: Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this "other world" worth to you?
>Babus: What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the Prince so much pain for?
>Marche: Well, I...
>Babus: What? Nothing?
>Babus: You would make the Prince suffer over... nothing?

>Babus: How can a whole world be someone's attempt to escape?
>Marche: Mewt's trying to pretend nothing bad ever happens! Here, his mom isn't dead... Here, he isn't picked on...
>Babus: All the more reason to protect this world from you!
>Marche: It's escapism! Can't you see? It's not healthy!
>Babus: Wrong! The prince himself has said, if the world is to go back, he should be the one to do it! These are not the words of a dreamer! No, he looks reality in the face, and it pains him terribly.
>Marche: Mewt said that?
>Babus: You... You think only of yourself. Selfish child, all you want to do is go home!

>rabbit poon
???
If you're talking about Adelle, she's cat themed, not rabbit themed.

Its unintentional, like FFVIII

I like how both Remedi and Marche make a point near the end that even Marche himself still wants what Dream Ivalice can give him, a stable family, power, popularity, athletic ability. And yet he was willing to give all that up because he knew these were problems magicked away, he didn't earn them, and he still wants to go home and face all these problems anyway.

Yeah, Doned should have just -earned- his legs back to working.

The way Marche convinces Doned to agree with him is the silliest shit in the whole story.
>Okay bro, I get where you're coming from. You're not in hospital all the time and your legs work now. But did you ever consider how I feel? You were always sick, so I never got any attention!
>You're right bro, I'm sorry.

FF8 was taking itself seriously the whole way through other then those segments with playing as those other group of chars which funny enough had more love then any of the actual ff8 characters themselves.

This was a child's movie with maturation themes which unintentionally supported escapism if things were real enough. Although besides the story, I fucking hated the law system.

Are you fucking shitin me?

Godammit Marche...

Mewt should earn his dead Mom.

Oh wait

Oh, I agree, but having some serious issues is really something that would be fine for the guy who is basically the boss of team escapism. Like, I'd want something serious that couldn't be easily talked down for the 'big bad' essentially. Makes it more interesting.

Well, it wasn't exactly my intent to argue artist's intent, but I suppose I kinda did. My point though is that the interpretation of Marche being a villain only really comes about because of bad writing, or perhaps simply writing that is too shallow. The game needed to go into at least a bit more depth to do a good job of telling it's story, and it didn't, which is why Marche seems like such an asshole. Though I suppose if it was done correctly we'd probably have a lot less to discuss right now.

While I'd agree, I'd say I still liked it more. It's story boils down to 'play me, I'm fun!' and I agree with it. Plus, I could kinda argue that Luso manages to be the better main character, and essentially has some things in common with Ramza. Though I'm sure that's not intentional, it's still something that I love.