>"One bad game away from the studio shutting down"
Advice to Management
The Game Side The RTS and Strategy genre is pretty much dead and unprofitable outside of a few titles like Total War and Starcraft. As a studio we need to evolve or die and unfortunately we haven't chosen to really evolve and make games that people want to play in this current market. We should take a very serious look at what the landscape for RTS and Strategy games are and assess if we have the right people and technology to create hit games.
The People Side I think the biggest issue with our current leadership team is that we may have the wrong people in key decision making roles when it comes to the game's direction. We don't understand what gamers want and end-up over-analyzing what we think they want. There's no culture or support for speaking-up as a couple of people on a team will make decisions that everyone has to follow. This has led to a culture of distrust and apathy.
Advice - Don't do these post-mortems and bring in experts if there's never going to be a proper follow-up or attempt to change and improve things. It frustrates the team when we do this big show around self-review and wanting to change and then never doing anything afterward. It's good to see that we're aware that there are problems that need fixing, but it's a real downer to see that we don't follow through at all with improving things. - We need to look at a different system of developing games where the balance of power and decision making isn't placed on a couple of people who ignore team feedback and lead us down the wrong path. It caused a critical failure with Dawn of War 3 and it's now causing our next big game to be an epic failure as well because the team's opinions simply don't matter. It's insane that a couple of team members decide the entire direction of the game without any real effort to get input and buy-in from the team. This approach could work if we had the right visionary type people, but we don't - instead we have design leadership who are invisible, out-of-touch or who are extremely difficult to work with due to their arrogance and bully-like approach. The Bottom Line A lot of us love working at Relic and working with each other. But we're all honestly saddened by the direction the studio has taken over the past few years. It's clear we lack an identity, a positive culture and the right leadership to inspire and guide us forward. There is a heavy feeling in the studio that if and when our next big game releases and is a flop then it's game over for Relic. We're not going to get a 2nd or 3rd chance especially after the Dawn of War 3 fiasco. Talk to your people and really dig-in to what worries them and keeps them up at night. There will be a common concern that we simply aren't equipped with the right leadership to lead us to success.
Dominic Sanchez
Oh so this is user's game. This is not actually to discuss shit, it's just memery of the "lets repost this shit as soon as the old thread dies" kind.
Let me guess, you got fired from Relic at some point?
Wyatt Collins
Sorry, you're right, I did a bunch of extra reading and it's 1834. Wikipedia mentions neither
Jack Harris
t. Relic employee
Luke Torres
We got discussion from the last thread and good discussion. Would be nice to keep going.
Also
John Powell
Can you kick Quinn Duffy in the balls for me please?
Lucas Perry
First for auto-resolving combat in Total War games.
Nolan Campbell
why would you make another shitty thread?
Caleb Nelson
>We got discussion from the last thread and good discussion. >Good discussion
m8, the last thread is filled with casuals who don't know what they want out of the genre. It's better than 99% of thread on Sup Forums right now but don't pretend it's good.
John Edwards
>good discussion
Insert that benny hill cowboy fight scene.webm here
Kayden Mitchell
He sounds like a disgrunted, bitter primadonna who didn't get his way in the company and is now throwing a hissy fit.
Cooper Gutierrez
>have 19 units at full health, 1 unit on low health >enemy has 1 unit on low health >auto-resolve >your low health unit has been destroyed
Jaxon Williams
Reposting from end of last thread:
RTS isn't going to come back any time soon. It breaks my heart, but it's true. I reached (and stayed in) Master League in Vanilla SC2, I grew up playing RTS games, I love them. I'm good at them. But people like me are too rare.
People who like big picture strategy are playing 4X games.
People who just like to see big battles are playing Total War.
People who like actively controlling units from a top-down interface are playing MOBAs.
The damn shame of it is that there are people, like me, who like all of those things. We like games where you have to do all of those things at once.
Normies do not play RTS the way that true RTS fans do. They never did, truth be told. 99% of people who ever played Brood War did not play Brood War the way it is meant to be played (Brood War merely being an example of top-tier RTS). It's a shame, because the game is a masterpiece at that expert level. There truly is no other game like it.
In order for RTS games to be worth the fiscal investment they have to be fun for normies. But if the game is fun for normies, it is almost certainly not a very good RTS for hardcore fans.
Julian Perry
No, it's the whole appeal of Total War, the rest is pretty uninspired.
Connor Moore
>ONE BAD GAME AWAY FROM SHUT DOWN!
Nolan Rivera
this is 98% of the complaints in glassdoor m8.
Isaac Cruz
OP, stop reposting your bullshits. No more (you)s
Elijah Gonzalez
Where is the fucking Necron expansion, Relic?
Justin Bennett
I'm not OP
Anthony Wood
your RTS games would sell better if they weren't so fucking bad, relic
Kevin Diaz
Playing the DoW3 campaign made me realize how bad their design decisions were, and I've been able to enjoy bad games. Units are priced like DoW2, but models die like DoW1. DoW2 circumvented this problem by starting you with revivable, free-reinforcing squads so you had no down time and could keep on doing things despite your small numbers. This also built a strong core of characters to rely on and develop, as they really focused on the stories and character interactions. I literally waited in my base for half a DoW3 mission because I was waiting for the TWO REQUISITION POINTS to fuel my armies with characters I've known since DoW1, and have no further development besides being who they are besides Kyre and Rohan
Owen Collins
>"One bad game away from the studio shutting down" This is actually better than I expected it to be. I thought Sega was shutting it down already.
Benjamin Parker
The last thread wanking Total War made me realize they are working on some game called 'Thrones of Britannia' or something?
What is the point of this one? We are already getting Three Kingdoms. Were CA afraid that their Euro-loving fanbase would be lost without every other game taking place in Europe?
Mason Peterson
To guinea pig new systems: >Troops costing both gold and food to upkeep >New units recruited at 25% strength - you are mustering men, not recruiting well drilled regiments >Can't just keep an army of 20 elite units on hand. Need to plan ahead >Tomb King style unit caps across your empire >Technology is not a tree, but linked to events and milestones. E.g raising a certain number of troops, building a specific building >Some form of army supply system - raiding now is required to keep armies in the field >No agents. Agent functions have been rolled into other mechanics >Unit recruitment is global: it uses the same pool. No need to send armies ranging to other settlements just to recruit a particular unit >Barracks/training grounds don't exist. Once a unit is unlocked via technology, you can recruit it in friendly territory or when fortified >You can enhance buildings in major settlements to unlock upgrades in the minor ones >Lots of research is unlocked through repetition. Build one unit enough and you'll unlock the next. >Closest TW has come to feeling like Crusder Kings II, albeit less stats and relationships and less pieces on the board >All about making every click meaningful. >Hence no agents, no recruitment buildings. You're not wasting time - and armies and generals are hugely important. Losing one hurts.
Kevin Ramirez
>acquire a reputable studio >make them do 1 (one) high profile game for you >shut them the fuck down if it doesn't do well
Not even EA does that shit. The name is still marketable. It will take a few more hits before they go down.
Brandon Wright
That Relic review from OP implies its going to be another disaster cause the top devs aren't listening to feedback.
they are making ToB Warhammer 2 dlcs and china at the same time
Asher Garcia
NOOOOO HOW'S THAT POSSIBLE, WE CATERED TO THE ASSFAGGOTS! OUR GAME WAS SUPPOSED TO SELL LIKE HOTCAKES!!
Justin Price
Maybe if devs could make a game with a fucking half decent campaign it would drag in the normies. But no it's either you have to wreck your mouse spamming shit like a coked up korean or they just steal some stuff from assfaggots and the game bombs.
RA2,WC3 and Wing of liberty had FUN campaigns, even if the story was cheesy. Stop chasing the fucking esports fairy and make the game fun with good mechanics.
Ayden Robinson
Remember how good Dawn of War 3 trailer was? Remember how the game turned out?
Logan Ross
>Troops costing both gold and food to upkeep Cool >New units recruited at 25% strength - you are mustering men, not recruiting well drilled regiments Interesting, though it seems like it could lead to a true 100% strength unit becoming a snowball. >Can't just keep an army of 20 elite units on hand. Need to plan ahead Why not? Maybe I don't understand, I'll have to watch a video. >Technology is not a tree, but linked to events and milestones. E.g raising a certain number of troops, building a specific building Good >No agents. Agent functions have been rolled into other mechanics Could be good. I liked agents, but at once it sucked when you knew they were there and had to just hope you could get rid of them. >Lots of research is unlocked through repetition. Build one unit enough and you'll unlock the next. Makes sense >Closest TW has come to feeling like Crusder Kings II, albeit less stats and relationships and less pieces on the board If I wanted to play Crusader Kings, I would.
Jason Peterson
t salty johan
Ethan Campbell
good riddance to bad rubbish
the Relic I knew died long ago
Ryder Hughes
I thought it'd be an inbetween release, but it's releasing pretty tightly between TWW2 and TK so I don't even know anymore. Looks like it could be a fun little title, the British Isles alone is a bit boring as a setting though. At least it means the map will be detailed.
Also I guess it's partially riding the coattails of "Vikings" popularity. There are also a lot of autistic Turks calling for an M3 but I don't think this would satisfy them.
Oliver Jackson
This is my point. You want a fun campaign out of an RTS, mainly. That's fine, like more power to you, really, but you are clearly not interested in RTS games the way that people like me are interested in them.
Spamming shit like a coked up Korean is the right thing to do because of the "RT" in RTS, it's real time. Be faster than your opponent.
>Why not? Maybe I don't understand, I'll have to watch a video. Unit caps are a thing
Hudson Bennett
I haven't played any DoW game, so no.
Jose Nguyen
>everyone on that rollercoaster of hype trying to discern what the cryptic teaser image was >trailer date drops >everyone loses their fucking minds >the series is back after a hiatus of 5 years >then the screenshots came
Justin Myers
Yeah no shit, what was the last hit they had? CoH1?
Turks are retarded in general. A few weeks ago had a rainbow6 match with 3 turks and 1 kurd guy. Started to yell like fucking chimps and tk the kurdish guy just because he is a fucking kurd
Charles Hall
Did they just give up on Total War Arena?
Haven't heard a peep about that game in... over a year now.
Connor Campbell
Am I supposed to feel bad or something?
Alexander Rodriguez
Repost an what I said from last thread because OP continues to be the gayest faggot this side of suckcocksville. >make MOBASHIT >claim it is RTS >doesn't sell because company both pathologically lies and treats it collective customer base as retards >Abloobloobloo RTS IS DEAD! I honestly hope this shitty company dies, hell I hope the entire god damn video game industry crashes again, god damn this culture is cancer.
Blake Harris
I know. I was thinking about a Knights of Honor kinda game, but less shallow and janky
Joseph Ross
>the flood of smilingspacemarine.jpg edits >everyone talking about what kind of factions and units they're going to include >gorgutz, macha and gaben angelos confirmed to be returning characters
>>then the screenshots came
I still remember all the people attempting to defend DoW3's artstyle and blatant downgrade as some kind of buffer for there to be battles on a much larger scale than in previous games I also remember all the people who opposed this change getting booed down by said defenders with stuff like "DAWN OF WAR WAS NEVER TOTALLY GRIMDARK"
Noah Wright
After DOW3 i knew it didnt look good for them. That game was fucking awful and they know it. I also love how their community managers kept referring to steam vents and bubble shields as "cover" when they KNOW good amd well thats not what people meant by it. Feigning ignorance pisses me the fuck off and that game flopping hard was exactly what they deserved.
Cameron Morales
These are almost always written by butthurt fans.
Ayden Cruz
Dawn of War 3's entire pre-release fiasco was the 'B-BUT IT'S JUST AN ALPHA' meme personified. What I find even more hilarious is that the creator of the DoW2 Elite Mod (which was created to fix Relic's shitty balancing in the first place) unashamedly sucked Relic's cock the entire time, defended them into the ground and even banned people from his forums for saying the game was going to be shit. He doesn't even fucking play it now
Nolan Cruz
kek
They kinda handed it over to wargaming.net. There was an open beta/alpha not too long ago which I tried and the game has basically gotten worse. Most prominently it's gotten far more stupidly grindy now, your units/generals don't even start off with all their abilities, which includes basic shit like telling your units to enter testudo formation or charge.
Grayson Collins
mabye relic should start doing full length movies instead. ive never played any DoW games or even know much about the genre but that looks good as fuck
Hunter Jones
Funny I was actually one of those people defending it, I remained optimistic until the game actually launch and I saw how much of a actual piece of shit it was and felt really shity for defending such an indefensible game. I guess dawn of War II truly is the best 40K game that will ever exist
Anthony Price
>Wow what a faggot, bullying builds character.
t. bullied faggot.
Lincoln Diaz
Why did Microsoft pick fucking lelic to make AOE4 but have Creative Assembly make Halo Wars?
Gavin Richardson
I doubt that they have the technology or skills to do that kind of animation. Most likely they paid some animation studio.
Logan James
No more agents mean no more funny meme cutscenes. Fuck I miss them
Hopefully they bring Stephen Rippy back to do the music.
Camden Stewart
because CA is not known for their RTS games but relic is?
Luis Cooper
wow, now I dont give a shit about this soy company. Good riddance.
Oliver Robinson
>don't evolve the RTS genre for decades >Tiberian Sun is still the most innovative RTS to come out and it came out in fucking 1999 (honourable mention to the Earth series and Maelstrom) >every new RTS game tries to ape a game from decades ago and the highest praise it can receive is "yeah it's pretty much exactly like this other game you played 19 years ago" >obvious conclusion is that RTS is a dead genre
Even fucking Mario evolved, albeit only a little.
Brayden Parker
There are some genuine shit companies with shit leadership. If someone decides to leave a sinking ship might as well expose them there.
Blake Kelly
>there to be battles on a much larger scale than in previous games
There are, but most people realised the conclusion obvious to a 4 year old. Despite the claims to the contrary, a Wh4k game about billions of faceless units getting shredded by the millions is not as fun as seeing the units emote and shit. That's why Warcraft always sold more than SupCom and always will and the guy at Relic bought into the whole SupCom meme.
Chase Walker
>He doesn't even fucking play it now a good indicator of DoW3's momentous failure I'd say is the fact that BigDickCheney (a youtuber who's made hundreds of DoW vids like youtube.com/watch?v=EXIQAKq6VEE for 10 years now) didn't even bother touching it
the guy who's catalogued hundreds of cutscenes and exchanges in both DoW1 and DoW2 didn't even dare to touch your worthless excuse of a game; that's got to hurt
Kayden Roberts
This explains DoW3 perfectly.
Henry Parker
>Tiberian Sun is still the most innovative RTS to come out
What kind of horrible drugs are you on, faggot? Stop it, before it erases the last bits of brain matter still left in that empty empty space that was your head at some point in the past.
Samuel Howard
>Tiberian Sun is still the most innovative RTS to come out That's a funny way of spelling Supreme fucking Commander.
Connor Myers
Relic bought into the TableTop meme is what hurt them
Dawn of War 2 would’ve done much better if it was just Dark Crusade 2.0 rather than Company of Heros 40k edition
Evan Ward
People were sceptical from the start due the trailer only including 3 races tho.
David Reyes
>TA with bigger maps and more (but blander) units >innovative
Dumbfuck.
Samuel Harris
I don't think those cutscenes have been a thing since Rome 2.
Blake Garcia
Au contraire
Juan Sanders
Feel free to give alternatives.
See . Can't be innovative when you're really only taking another game and scaling it up. Also TA was better than SupCom, only reason people drone on about SupCom so much is because most of nu/v/ started playing games after 2004 so SupCom was one of their first good RTS.
Carson Jones
Ah yes, Dawn of War 3, the game where I asked on SPUF if the game will be more like DoW1 (i.e. RTS) or Dawn of War 2 (i.e. shitty mix of mobashit and rts), and I was told it will be 100%RTS by the developer, even though that is objectively not true.
Ryan Green
CA wasn't known for their first person horror games either, but here we are.
Jonathan Carter
>CoH 2: Middling m8 it's one of the most successful title they made recently. People played more CoH2 than the entirety of CoH1 lifetime no joke.
Noah Jenkins
You're retarded and have no idea what you're talking about.
>Can't be innovative when you're really only taking another game and scaling it up. It introduced new mechanics which massively improved the RTS genre on the whole outside of a few outliers.
Mason Edwards
>Anti-bullying rally by software engineers is something new or unheard of.
Eli Jenkins
>It introduced new mechanics which massively improved the RTS genre on the whole outside of a few outliers.
Give me an example of a mechanic it introduced that "massively improved the RTS genre on the whole" that was not already present in TA.
Colton Parker
Question, why don't game studios just hire 10 neets from Sup Forums as the 'idea guy team'? Core gamers almost never get to key, decision making roles in studios because gaming eats your time and that means most of them don't have the necessary qualifications to be a top executive.
Logan White
Zooming to encompass the entire war theater? Detailed projectile physics that were influenced by the shape of terrain? How about the basic Shift functionality that allowed players to create complex patrol routes on the fly?
Jace Ortiz
Because their only experience is “playing similar videogames” which means all their ideas and inspiration are pulled from other titles, rather than something “new”
Brody Gray
His argument is sound though. You're actually citing a massive mod for a 2nd expansion of a game while comparing it to the initial release of DoW3. Now if we compare it to vDoW2 which had the EXACT same amount of flack that DoW3 does then it's a different matter entirely.
Remember it takes 2 expansions for both the DoW series (and CoH to a certain extent) to make a solid gameplay foundation and even then it still suffers from Relic signature balancing disease. If Relic doesn't fuck up with the DLCs and xpac then the game have the potential to be good like its predecessors.
Jordan Nelson
I understand DOW3 now.
Lucas Wright
CoH - The Vietnam or Korean War
Bam, that'll keep them afloat for another game or two.
Dylan Miller
>Detailed projectile physics that were influenced by the shape of terrain?
That's from TA
>How about the basic Shift functionality that allowed players to create complex patrol routes on the fly?
That's also from Total Annihilation.
Caleb Collins
IIRC that wasn’t even an option on the Survey they sent out way back when
Grayson Nelson
RTS is a European-dominant genre (the biggest markets are German, followed by Russia, then Poland, France and so on).
No one here gives a fuck about the Korean or Vietnam wars enough to play an RTS specifically set during them.
Nolan Perez
>>Zooming to encompass the entire war theater? So, a lot of zoom out and transitioning to minimap. Minimaps are obviously nothing new and far out zooms neither, only reason SupCom went for the whole range from low view to minimap was due to its scale making it necessray. Definitely not seeing how it "massively improved the RTS genre on the whole", considering it was mostly a feature sprung from the needs of this specific game.
>Detailed projectile physics that were influenced by the shape of terrain? >How about the basic Shift functionality that allowed players to create complex patrol routes on the fly?
All in fucking TA, why are you even arguing about the RTS genre if you haven't played what is probably the most innovative one (I actually correct my earlier statement, TA was indeed the most innovative one, while Tiberian Sun was the most innovative "standard" formula RTS that I know of)?
Makes me wonder how many other important RTS games you've missed and if there's any point in arguing.
