>>406093382

Yes. And the reason the scrub doesn't know how to counter the move because it's not a single move but a series of moves. Countering it one time is one thing. Countering it altogether is another.

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youtube.com/watch?v=_cP9GhVuo1s
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Yes
>nu Sup Forums will argue this and say they shouldn't have to get good because it hurts their feelings
>some smash fag will show up and insist a party game is a fighting game and derail the thread
That's how the rest of this will go

Obviously, so obviously in fact one wonder why he feels the need to be so smug about it.

It's clearly not that obvious. Otherwise he never would have needed to write his book in the first place.

Of course he's right. If you want to be the best, you do the most effective thing allowed within the rules. "Cheap" stuff is why the rules change over time through banning characters and such.

I think the real problem here, as in most situations, is autism. Someone who understands the difference between playing with their friends and playing at/practicing for a tournament, should not run into the problem of being called "cheap" because they don't pull out the annoying shit in casual situations.

If my friends are incapable of jumping over fireballs and have no interest in learning I see no reason to play with them in the first place.

Throwing an opponent over and over is fun as hell especially when you know it pisses them off

Cheap is almost always an excuse used by shitters who suck at the game and can't adapt or learn.

Yes. Absolutely

Fighting games are a trash genre.
Because the playerbase consists of mainly turboautists who spend every single waking second of their life practicing like they're getting paid for it, you can't ever actually play those games with anyone except your friends (if they're not turboautists themselves) unless you have fun losing 100% of your matches, instead you have to play 1 game, get demolished by a character you never seen before, and then spend 10-15 hours in practice mode learning every single move of that character, how to react to those moves with your character, and how your character's moves can by reacted to by that character. Good luck if you're playing something like Tekken.
The majority of people playing videogames want to actually play them instead of sitting in practice mode beating up a dummy, which is why this genre will always stay in its autistic niche.
Maybe Riot can bring it to mainstream whenever their casualised rising thunder comes out.

But nobody wants people like you playing so it's not a loss in the first place.

>playing fighting with a friend
>tell him I'm just going to sweep or throw him all round
>when he does block its always high, never low
>will sometimes just freeze completely if I quickly crouch and stand since he doesn't know what's coming
>refuses to play fighting games, always wants to play shooters instead now
I just want some people to play fighting games with locally, I've looked around for some groups but they all meet up during the week when I have work and only smash meets on the weekends in my area and there's no way I'm hanging out with them

Yes. I've been telling people this, especially in the KI community where dudes bitch about Shadow Jagos's teleport "spam". Everything he does is unsafe without meter so if he's doing the same teleport divekick and you still can't figure out you just stand block, it's your problem.

Change your work schedule. Most areas have a weekly FGC meetup.

You can say the same about almost every sport, also fighting games have had handicap options in the versus mode for decades now, you're just butthurt people who put effort in improving and call it autist, typical excuse of a mediocre person. Also the problem you're talking about only happens in very few games like tekken, in other fighting games if you know how to play the system you know very well how to defend against most situations to some degree, if your opponent made his homework and found tech other players don't know then he should be rewarded.

>Change your work schedule
Can't do it, the only other guys here that can work my post are the weekend managers

Isn't it already mainstream with Street Fighter? A lot of people know who Ryu is even if they've never touched a SF game.

>Riot doing anything that's not League of Legends or a crappy flash game
hahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahaa

>Anybody who insults Fantasy Strike over simple execution or small movesets is an idiot. The fun and hype parts about Fighting games is not doing gymnastics on a controller, its the outsmarting of your opponent. Ex. you're spamming fireballs at your opponent, he inches in to around jump distance with the intent of jumping a predicted fireball, however, the moment he is actively moving into said space, he's welcomed to an incoming attack from you because you cut your repeated fireball spam short to preemptively dash in or jump in and attack. And the reasoning why this worked is because you knew your opponent wouldn't be looking out for said option because you conditioned him to focus solely on countering the fire ball spam, and that's what fighting games are trying to get at -- the mind games.

>execution and match up knowledge are just stepping stones to get to the mind games, however, they do not define that element. Therefore, Fantasy Strike can work as a fighter despite not having L-cancels, kara-cancels, plinking, charge partitioning, 1-frame links, arcade stick motions. Yes, it can work with a cast that has around 10 moves per char; you don't need 30+ moves to create a grappler, zoner, turtler, pressure based rushdown char, or a mixup/setplay based rushdown char. Yes, you autstistic fgts, you can carefully design a single move so it has several different uses.

>In conclusion, Fantasy Strike is the start of a new inclusive approach to fighters that is going to expand the genre while keeping their strategic nature intact by focusing less on 1p training mode and more on player-decisions. And this is a good thing!

Sirlin's 100% right, and while it should be obvious, it's not.
The majority of people who dabble into competitive games stay mediocre for a reason.
twitter.com/BlaiseGod/status/952436141910880257
twitter.com/Dr_Bobalu/status/961299415041499143

Fuck off sirlin.
Limited options are BORING for hardcore players.

>that is going to expand the genre
Game's too unpopular, a few fighting game enthusiasts will give it a try a drop it once they get bored after finding out that rewarding execution is part of the appeal, people unfamiliar with fighters won't be interested because the aesthetic is unappealing.

It aint scrub tactics if it works.

>defending esports autism.

It's true though, memorizing movesets is low IQ. You don't appreciate the beauty of adaptability, dynamic gameplay and smart moves.

Consider chess, at least the first 20 moves are always a sequence memorized by one player, instead of coming up with interesting strategies on the spot

Autistics that don't appreciate the beauty of the game invariably ruin everything they touch because they have to WINWINWINWINWIN, if winning is everything, why don't you cheat then you retard? Look at chess players, tell any of them that stalemate is a retarded rule and you'll get yelled at
>muhh (200)0 years of endgame theory I autistically memorized would be wasted if the rule change would be reverted!!

Obviously most highly rated chess players are high IQ because a high IQ player that memorizes moves beats an average IQ player that memorizes moves, but a supposed "game of intelligencia" where an experienced average IQ player beats a fresh high IQ player is retarded.

youtube.com/watch?v=_cP9GhVuo1s
Hmmm

Yes, and this is back when Scrub meant "a player who doesn't learn from his mistakes and makes excuses when he loses." People use Scrub too often now to describe new players or less successful players in general, even if they're trying.

that shit is easy to predict and if they keep using it maybe you should idk read your opponent

But then why didn't you win that easy 10k user

So heres what I always get at with people. If you're of a different mindset from your opponent, 1 of you is bound to fail at their mindset.

If someone is competitive, and someone wants casual fun, neither player is really getting anything out of the match. The person wanting casual fun is going to think the competitive person is "trying too hard" and "cheap" and the competitive person will think that "it's pointless to keep playing him" and "this is boring". Noone has fun, noone grows or learns, both players go home butthurt.

If both players are there for casual fun, they'll have fun together, more than likely. Same for if they're both competitive. They'll learn and grow as players together.

I always tell people to stay in their lane. If you want to compete in said fighting game/FPS/MOBA/Whatever, find the community of competitive players, meet up, and play, and enjoy yourselves. If there is a dedicated competitive/ranked mode, play that to find other individuals of a like mind. If you're more playing for casual fun, stay out of ranked/competitive mode, don't enter tournaments (but watch away if you enjoy them), and let people who might think you're playing for competitive reasons, that you're just playing for fun, so you both don't waste your time getting frustrated with each other.

This doesn't invalidate what he said in the OP at all

You can call people scrubs and tell them to git gud all you want, but for the average gamer the bottom line of fighting games is simply this: they ask too much of you and give too little in return. They're a bad deal.

Then maybe they're asking for the wrong rewards.

But competitive mode doesn't mean anything. And so its still casual and everyone will still play it being the main game mode.
It only matters when theres something on the line like money. Rank doesn't mean anything in most games nowadays.

Metagaming has ruined the balance. I don't thnk any casual player wanting to git gud. is ever going to know that option selects or other obscure mechanical advantages by simply getting blown up.

As far as competitive circles go, he's absolutely correct. But when you're fightan with your real life buddies, you need to adjust your skill level accordingly. Some people just plain don't have the instincts for fighting games. As much as I adore Guilty Gear Xrd, for example, I simply CANNOT block blatantly telegraphed Dust attacks outside of blind luck. I have a couple of friends who are infinitely better than me and whenever I play, there's an implicit understanding to go easy on mixups. They still win 99% of the time anyway, but I get to feel like I have a fighting chance. Everyone has a good time that way.

Now, if by some retarded reason I was to enter a local tourney, I would gladly take my last place award without so much as an ounce of bitching. You gotta match the approach to the environment.

Not true. Rank is prestige in all games.
The casuals play ranked because they are emulating more skilled players.

>they are going easy on you
Then they probably aren't having fun with the game since they aren't trying.
It's more likely they just value you as a friend, you fucking casual.

>Then they probably aren't having fun with the game since they aren't trying.
Not that guy but I have fun beating my casual friends, I use the handicap options to take more damage or play with characters I don't use, learning them that way is fun.

This is why I cannot play smash.

Everyone I know enjoys it as the party game it is but this one dude just fucks up everyone's shit because smash is a competitive and balanced game right? It's meant for e-sports right?

he definitely didn't need to write the book, ill tell you that

>player one wiggles slightly back and forth
>every once in a while he presses his fullscreen poke or throws a fireball
>continues doing so for 50 seconds until opponent is on death's edge

>player 2 finally has inched his way to player 1
>lands a singular jab
>player 1 is sucked into an unholy vortex of damage and ambiguous mixups where he has a 25% chance of guessing correctly
>p2 wins

remind me again why fighting games take "skill"

>play only one type of player
>get blown up by morons at a tournament
I've seen it happen my dude. There's a reason Daigo said to play shit players too.

>remind me again why fighting games take "skill"
Because your shitty greentext is a blatantly untrue and gross exaggeration/oversimplification.

Because retards like you must simplify them in order to describe them while missing all the nuance that's actually there. You can use the same retarded logic and make everything look simpler, but in reality the only one looking retarded is the one making said description.

Probably because he ruined a few parties.

>The game knows no rules of "honor" or of "cheapness."
And that's why this can never be considered anything that could be called a "sport."

Shut up. Unless your argument is that domination 101 was enough you're just crying that someones writing style hurts your feefees.

>but in reality the only one looking retarded is the one making said description.
Pretty much, that kind of shit says more about the person making the statement.

That's how a dumb ass thinks.
Fighting games are a spectator driven """"sport"""". If the game is boring to watch, people will stop spectating, and if people stop spectating, then tournaments will stop hosting the game (as it brings in no revenue). If there's no competition, the game dies.
It's in a communities best interest to keep the game entertaining to watch.

you haven't addressed the crux of the issue, which is that dumb archetypes exist and turn the game into matchup rock paper scissors

fighting games are better when they're all about the execution instead of matchup

Chess is a sport and follows the same rules. If someone better than you at chess demolishes you in 2 turns, was it cheap?

Fighting games are videogames. Spectators are not needed and never have been.

dumb and mad as usual, you don't need a self-help book to learn how to play a game

So what you're saying is that you're mad that someone called you out when you came here to shill your book.

>fighting games are better when they're all about the execution instead of matchup
I absolutely disagree. Fighting games should strive for a balance between execution and fundamental play, but I enjoy the fundamental aspects way more than drilling execution myself. See ST for a pretty good baseline of how a fighting game should be. If you don't like ST you've got no business in the genre

>into matchup rock paper scissors
Most sports are mind games + execution, and there's nothing wrong with this.
>Fighting games are better when they're all about execution
Says who? If they're all about execution then just putting both players in training mode and see who does the craziest combo would be enough and no one would bother with the rest of the game, neutral is where the beauty of a fighting game lies.

It's in the community's best interest to keep the game entertaining, but it's in the player's best interest to win. The people in charge of the tournaments can do the job of making the game interesting without any player having to worry about what's cheap or entertaining.

>People stop spectating
>Tourneys stop giving out cash prizes because their's no views in it
>People move on to games that have more to offer
It doesn't really matter what your outlook on events are, they're a sign of a healthy meta and a strong community.

>Chess is a sport
Wanna how I know you're a semantic spouting retard?
>If someone better than you at chess demolishes you in 2 turns, was it cheap?
If he uses a move that spawns unlimited pawns that can attack from across the board nonstop making my only recourse to do the exact same thing until one of us gets a cramp, then yes, dipshit.

There are obviously a lot of people that do. It's like you haven't spoke to anyone about videogames in your entire life. PTW isn't even enough for some of those people.
>shilling a free book
There's a limit to paranoia.

> If someone better than you at chess demolishes you in 2 turns, was it cheap?
Can't happen unless you play like trash because chess is actually balanced.

>m-muh neutral
see there's nothing interesting about two people trying to slowly step in and out of each other's effective ranges.

fighting games are better with speed and mobility naturally put in the system

But that's not your only recourse in 99% of fighting games, you downie namefag. You're clueless

What's wrong with stalemate?

I don't even think fighting games should be considered sports but you are very retarded. What is being said in OP is scrubs think right decisions are cheap because they don't understand the game, it would be like someone finding the weakness on their opponent and using it, like if batter in baseball is bad against curve balls and people start complaining the pitcher is being cheap for only throwing curve balls.

Those games that have speed and mobility built in still have neutral though.

>Can't make an argument so I'll just say muh
You failed to refute any of my points and act as if your personal preference is a fact that determines how fighting games should work. Try to make an argument and refute my point, otherwise I'm not bothering with your next post.

Put on a trip so I can filter you across the board, if you would be so kind. I rarely see someone this wrong, you're not even worth arguing with because you'd go in circles and it'd be exhausting.

>getting this mad over a book written two decades ago

He's not even remotely wrong. Have you seen the average player? They're so predictable it's hurtful. And I'm not just talking about fighting games.

Why Sup Forums screams bloody murder when a videogame is casualized / dumbed down, only to ask with the same vehemency for fighting games to be casualized and dumbed down?

>there's nothing interesting about two people trying to slowly step in and out of each other's effective ranges.
For an idiot who can only appreciate flashy shit maybe, seeing how a player managed to get in range and outsmart the other player to land a combo is way more interesting than just seeing an execution test. Both make an excellent mix and complement each other(as long as the combos aren't stupidly long by default) creating a nice pacing to the competition between tension in the neutral and reward in the combo.

Because Sup Forums isn't one person.

The thing with fighting games is that they're fun until you realize you're fighting against someone, and one of you has to lose.
Losing isn't fun, and acknowledging that you're losing because you're not a good fighter is even less fun.
Losing makes people mad and they'll say anything afterwards to justify their loss.

yes but when things are fast, fights are actually fast and skilled and neutral isnt a fucking drag. you dont casually time someone out in fast fucking games. you whiff something and they dash up in a split second, boom, neutral over.

street fighterbabs were a mistake

>artists
Don't put it past them
>You're clueless
You're adorable
>more false comparisons
Why can't you people just admit that what you're doing is objectively unentertaining? You suffer from the most severe cases of autism anyone could imagine.
If you can win by being boring, be my guest, but if all you care about when playing is winning by being boring, you seem to misunderstand the entire point of video games.

sirlin is an autistic chink who can't have fun with anything and feels the need to "optimize" everything

It becomes a lot easier when you tell yourself that losing is the best way to improve.

>He's not even remotely wrong.
>i-if you call it out you're just mad
I don't even know why I'm still in this thread. I don't even like e-"sports"

it's hilarious watching fighting game fans try to be intellectual and analytic

"Optimizing" - to him - is fun. Just like being a retard is fun for you, apparently.

Call him out for what? Being right?

Or when you stop being a kid who gets mad at video games

Doesn't make him wrong in this case

Adults get angry at games too. Everyone has a tipping point. And it's not hard to put someone on that tipping point. Case in point: the entire existence of Sup Forums ever.

>If you can win by being boring, be my guest, but if all you care about when playing is winning by being boring, you seem to misunderstand the entire point of video games.
Is this bait? I has to, right? What the fuck do you even mean by that?

So you're only bitching about some titles of one franchise in specific instead of most of the genre? As some other user said, Super Turbo already had a fast pacing in the neutral so maybe you're a 09er or worse yet someone who thinks every match looks like a SFV match.

the game looks too ugly even if it's good. he should have made it with anime titties.

This is the second step to becoming a great fighter. Unfortunately people don't like learning from mistakes.
This is the first step. It's okay to be mad as long as you can cool off and bring it back.

HEY GUIZE WHY ARE YOU USING ITESM STOP USING ITEMS REEEE FOX ONLY FINAL DEFSTINATION YOU FUCKING SCRUBSREEEE

party game

That just means you like fast neutral over slower paced neutral.
It has little to do with neutral itself actually being bad.
Why do you seem to think just because a game is faster paced it doesnt still follow general rules of neutral and isnt still about matchups as well?
Guilty gear for example is very fast and still pretty execution intensive now but is still incredibly matchup knowledge heavy.

Ther are no party games, I play to win. Its all a competition so fuck you.

i dont even know what im whining about anymore

i just hate molasses neutral and "poke the bigger guy out" shit. if you outplay the other guy in neutral you should be in and thats that

I mean someone has to win in the end. If someone is doing particularly well I just think of them as a boss fight 8 man smash is so much fun

Oh look

I think you should try out UNIST friend.

Because I don't have time for that.

>this user doesn't believe that entertaining, for me, is me winning and watching some little cuck boi get frustrated.

Top cuck.

>c*ck
whoa there you mean soy boy user

>policing the language of others
Found the soy cuck