What are your favorite MUH TROIDVANIAS?

What are your favorite MUH TROIDVANIAS?

What the fuck is this retarded ass chart, nig?

...

Fuck off Sup Forums

a spin on this, welcome to the internet, newfriend

>official
kek

>Salt and Sanctuary
>god tier

Nice Reddit chart, retard.

Complex morality choice: Metroidvania was originally used to refer to Castlevania games that played similarly to Metroid, but the term has since evolved into a genre of its own, of which games like Rabi Ribi are a part of. Although Metroidvania is a colloquial term, some people prefer the term "platformer adventurer", but that doesn't indicate things like the labyrinthine, tight level design or power up/upgrade development system.

>Metroidvania chart
>not a single Castlevania in it
this has to be bait

Now this one is just silly. Structural neutral, ingredient purist is obviously the correct decision.

For you. I'm Ingredient Rebel myself, even if I am Structure Neutral.

move hollow knight and odallus to elder god tier, and move salt and sanctuary down

remove terraria

>Terraria
What

Rabi-Ribi is better than Hollow Knight, Ori, etc.

Marrow is shit.

Thats a bold claim considering Rabi Ribi looks like ass

>RabiRibi at the bottom
>Terraria

This has to be bait. Especially considering everyone is too pussy to post real opinions on Sup Forums anymore, it's always contrarian/shitposting.

>looks
Literally, who cares about looks, brainlet?

You better not have anything like Mount and Blade, New Vegas, or Deus Ex on your 3x3 when you're saying shit like that.

Not him but gameplay wise, rabi ribi is trully great.

La Mulana is rubbish. Why that got a sequel I will never know.

Tell me more about the future where you come from.

Salt and Sanctuary is the biggest pile of shit I've ever played in recent years and it's ugly as fuck too.

Dark Souls is not even vaguely metroidania-esque

What about it? It's a good game.

>Literally, who cares about looks, brainlet?

not that guy but good game + good setting/art> good game + shit setting/art

Valdis Story is pretty good. Castle in the Darkness is mostly good, though the later half of the game starts becoming I Want to be The Guy which is super obnoxious.

My personal favorite though is Aquaria. Haven't really found something that kinda invoked that feeling of awe and curiousity about the surroundings since Super Metroid.

>consistent world
>leveling up
>equipment system
>shitty platforming
it actually fulfills the 3 requirements

But it kind very vaguely is, you can go anywhere but every now and then you can only progress with some shit from somewhere else.
And to end the game, you must have found all the mandatory corners of the huge ass map, you can roam about in that fashion.

Note that I said "very vaguely".

Duh? Why the fuck did you even think that was worth typing out?

>All that's needed for a metroidvania is backtracking, character progression and platforming
No wonder retards think everything is a metroidvania.

Hollow Knight,easily.
Have only dipped a toe into the genre but this one instantly became an all time favorite

>Leveling up doesn't significantly change the gameplay and bring in new gameplay elements
>Consistency of world doesn't lead to new story elements or actions.
>Equipment is completely optional but McGuffins
lol.

Reddit.

But a sub and chip butty are both sandwiches, a hot dog is not

Rather than making "ingredient" part about inclusion of Castlevania, Metroid or game's age, it should rather be about map and exploration.
Purist: "Metroidvania needs map with freeform exploration and possibility for doing things in undefined order(Symphony of the Night)."
Neutal: "Metroidvania needs a map with exploration and blocks that you fill, it's fine for events to be in set order(Cave Story)."
Rebel: "Metroidvania needs a map, doesn't matter if it's randomized each playthrough(Rogue Legacy)."
It's not a Metroidvania.

>shitty platforming
It says it has to be a platformer, not just contain platforming. It's still a shit list of requirements though, Souls should at most have 1 element in common which is the backtracking and reuse of areas, leveling up is nothing like powerups.

If you squint at it hard enough it sort of resembles one. But honestly the only thing it has in common is an inter connected world with various areas that open up as you progress.

It generally lacks everything else that actually makes up metroidvanias, like unique abilities that help unlock more of the world rather than just keys.

>Oh, I wonder what kind of boss will be next
>Yeah, it's another cute girl in a revealing outfit! And her form of attack is... yep, she sprays bullets around!
>repeat x20

This dude keeps posting it in every Metroidvania-related thread, I'm convinced he's the same dude who kept raging in Hollow Knight threads about Rain World.

Just a warning, Dandara came out and it's a really unique metroidvania, but fuck me it's frustrating as hell.
I'm a little over 2 hours in and I feel already tired playing it because of its unrewarding upgrades (that literally make the game harder) and sometimes tedious backtracking due to cheap deaths and unique controls.

what else is missing on that list of pre-reqs for Metroidvanias structure-wise?

>Leveling up doesn't significantly change the gameplay and bring in new gameplay elements
allows you to equip gear with pre-reqs, 1h heavier weapons, access to new spells, stamina break points allowing 1 more weapon swing
>Consistency of world doesn't lead to new story elements or actions.
what do you even mean by new story elements or actions?
>Equipment is completely optional but McGuffins
they change your attack moveset, damage type, attack range, determine your roll/blocking and subsequently how you're going to fight most enemies and bosses

so I think you're very wrong

I myself am a Hardline Traditionalist, I wouldn't even call all these other games "Metroidvanias", but I like the genre

>unique abilities that help unlock more of the world rather than just keys.
this is so arbitrary, I love it

is this the Toho of Metroidvanias?

>literally who cares about looks

that's the fucking reason

I only added the "Sup Forums's official list" at the top. I only post it so that people get to know the bait and don't fall for it when the true autist comes around. It really surprises me the amount of replies it gets everytime. People need to be educated.

Epic take on my statement, fellow faggot.
Have an 'xd' on the house, don't spend it all at once.

Right, but you said it yourself. A game is good regardless of looks. Looks make things better, but that's it. It's like a cherry on top. Graphics are unironically one of the least important parts of a game.

>this is so arbitrary, I love it

Its not really. If you boil it down, abilities do tend to be just keys to access new areas, but the big difference is that they're usable outside of that context as well. For instance having a high or double jump allows you to access new areas for sure, but it also gives you additional mobility on top of that.

Something like Darksouls is.. well, a key is a key. Literally nothing more or less than just that.

>that literally make the game harder
How so?

But yeah, the controls seems really bad, I think i'll pass on this one.

>is this the Toho of Metroidvanias?

Yes, quite so. Some designs are obviously a rip off. They also ripped of Kancolle.

Your requirements are retarded, and are needlessly broad to include stuff like Dark Souls.
Unlike games that people think of as traditional Metroidvanias, "powering up" in Dark Souls never actually unlocks new areas, equipment is hardly never necessary for accessing/unlocking new areas(rather it is based on getting keys or defeating bosses) and platforming consists of making one or two jumps or drops at select points.

This chart could be better done.
I don't agree with the ingredient alignment, as I never see people who are "Neutral", why divorce "Classic" from any other game? It's only "Metroidvania is only applicable to Castlevania" or "Any game can be one as long as it fits the structure"
And the Structure alignment is worded horribly, since Super Mario Bros would fit "Structure Rebel" and a lot of RPGs would fit "Structure Neutral".
Structure Rebel should just be "Consistent World which you can explore and travel back and forth". Structure Neutral could have that and one of the two other pre-reqs. Also, maybe cut "Consistent" from Rebel and/or Neutral, so Terraria could fit into one of those.

i agree it just seemed like you were brushing aside the criticism altogether by claiming graphics didn't matter at all

I care about abilities when they're used in interesting ways. If Alucard started with all his abilities and instead of some iron bars which you need Mist form to go through you had a red door opened by a "red key" key item, the game would not be significantly worse because of it.

I like the progression of gaining abilities and the game gating being more natural through it, but it's not a deal breaker for me, and I wouldn't even call it genre defining. Ironically, SotN itself has a buyable key item that only serves to open like 3 blue doors and nothing else.

>what else is missing on that list of pre-reqs for Metroidvanias structure-wise?
How about exploration that's actually gated by abilities and powerups? Having a consistent map with backtracking is nothing, doesn't even have to be non-linear or interconnected. RPG elements are nothing like that, especially if you don't even gain new abilities and it's just +hp/damage/whatever.

Rabi-Ribi is definitely well within the definition of what 90% of people mean when they say Metroidvania. It's also a great game, like it or not a chink weeb blew most west indie shit the fuck out.
I personally think it's more than 'very vaguely'.
It's as close to a 3D SotN as there likely ever will be, almost as close as Metroid Prime is to Super Metroid.
That being said the biggest difference is it doesn't really have power ups (platforming abilities, transformations etc) as gating so much as keys and progression triggers, and the player's own ability to survive with their stats and equipment.

>i don't like bullet hell therefore is BAD
January 2016 all over again.

>equipping different gear
>weapons change your movesets
Neither of those are elements that make Metroidvanias what they are, though. Yes, you could equip different weapons in SotN, but what actually changed the game was the different abilities that you could find that allowed you to access new areas.
In Dark Souls they are action game elements.
>this is so arbitrary, I love it
It is not uncommon for Metroidvanias to feature keys, but normally the most exciting things that player finds are the new abilities which, like the other user said, do have functionality in addition accessing new areas.
Yes, Dark Souls does have an interconnected world with exploration, but that is the only significant element it shares with the genre.

>Valdis Story
>Salt n Sanctuary
>better than literally anything below them

This chart is retarded. Dark Souls is not a Metroidvania, going by this chart Super Mario World would be just as much of a Metroidvania as it.

how degenerate.

the image was made solely for amusement purposes, I don't reeeeally care about all the other quadrants because I'm a Hardline Traditionalist, but I'll try to keep your feedback in mind if I ever change the image again

Considering its one of the major aspects of the games held across every actual metroidvania, I'd have to say you're flat out wrong on the genre defining part.

Liking it or not is completely up to opinion, but the rest is part of the identity of the genre.

>How so?
Minor spoiler, but at some point in the game, you get an item that activates devices when you're close to them.
It's supposed to open up new paths by making some platforms in the area move again and shit, but 3/4 of the mechanisms are traps (laser beams, dart turrets, fucking insta-kill crushing walls) or straight-up walls that create new dead-ends and block paths you could previously move through.

So instead of being stronger after getting an upgrade like most metroidvanias, you're getting weaker for this area in particuliar, and the exploration and backtracking got a lot more tedious.

And I didn't mention a bunch of game mechanics straight-up ripped from Dark Souls, like the healing and MP-restoring items working exactly like estus flasks, the very low number of checkpoints located within an area, and the loss of all your salt (this game's equivalent to souls) you need to retrieve when you die.

All this shit makes me want to stop playing.

Radical Anarchy should be Undertalevania

>food analogy

>the game would not be significantly worse because of it.
Yes, but then it wouldn't be what people consider as Metroidvania anymore. If in Super Metroid you started with every suit upgrade and places where you got them only gave you key-cards that opened doors, game would feel significantly different.
And even more, getting a new skill in these games does not simply open new areas, it also lets you access different places in areas you've already been to, some of which are entirely optional or just house secrets as reward to players who explore the map. So the key comparison isn't fully applicable at all, it wouldn't be same seeing a locked chest and figuring you need to come to it later, instead of thinking if you could fly to edge of area where you've been to several times before, albeit without extended movement options.

The point was that it was shittily made, ya dink

Just admit it, you pushed this image just to talk about that pedo hentai game rabbi rabbi?

Dark Souls 2 is literally more of a metroidvania than 1 is. Fragrant branch of yore and king's ring make you backtrack through old areas to access new ones, several different paths, two different ways to progress in the game so there's no forced shit like pic related.

For something to be considered Sandwich sensibly, it can not be more step away from Pure-Pure. Nobody would honestly think that chicken wrap or hot dog is a sandwich.

Does any other platforming bullet hell games like Rabi Ribi exist?
And how are Bunny Must Die and Rosen-something(not even gonna bother trying to spell it, but the characters look like they're right out of a Key VN)?

exactly, both are not Metroidvanias

if you want to be anal about it, let's really be anal about it then:
much like relics in SotN that give you new abilities, in Dark Souls keys aren't actually keys, but magical relics that allow you to open certain doors, and that goes in line with retarded doors that you should be able to open from both sides but you can't, you can only open it from one side, and the only explanation is magic

that's not an analogy though

I'll change the example then:
>get new special ability
>right besides one there's always a colored key
>every area that was blocked by the lack of the ability previously now is only blocked by colored door

the game would feel more artificial but the levels would play very simmilarly, only now the gating is completely artificial

the game would be worse because of it, but not significantly, in fact, in Super Metroid's case of some powerups it wouldn't even make a difference (having a key to open green locks instead of shoving a super missile on it barely changes anything really)

in SotN it would be way more grating though

my point ultimately is that this shouldn't be a pre-req for a game to be considered of this genre, looking at most Metroid and Castlevania games they have top notch music, and you wouldn't put top notch music as a pre-req for it to be part of the genre, would you?

FBoY is limited uses key, and the Ring is just another key

I prefer these to regular keys, but essentially they're still keys, don't try to put them on some great pedestal

I feel like I should expand on this.
Perhaps it is not a metroidvania, but I do think Dark Souls is very comparable to the Igavanias, particularly Symphony of the Night. It's like a step removed from the genre, missing the aspects that tie it explicitly to Metroid. All I can say is playing it puts me in much the same mindset as SotN and I enjoy it for many of the same reasons, thus I'd recommend it to someone looking for a similar experience.

Theres a touhou game based off of castlevania. Has a sequel too if I recall. Both being pretty bullethellish

Even though that is true, the main complaint people had with Dark Souls 2 was that the map was not inter-connected, which is what is the most common feature of Metroidvanias.
Yes, even if the game had multiple different paths after you got to unlock those stone statues, people playing it felt like after they picked a path from the Majula they were just running to the end of the area with no notable diversions along the way.
And while you do have to backtrack, the paths hardly never cross over with eachother. You are simply backtracking to Majula again and again, and picking a different road to take.

Ah, that's right. I should've assumed Touhou had a game of every genre.

>if you want to be anal about it, let's really be anal about it then:

Its not being anal, its the literal definition everyone perscribes to metroidvanias.

>much like relics in SotN that give you new abilities

Cept nothing you just said is an actual ability. You're just describing a key, cause thats all they do. What does it allow you to do besides open the door? Nothing. I know you're just acting retarded now, but come on.

dead cells is a goddamn masterpiece

Yeah, it's bad when judged by the metroidvania metric, not to mention the repetitive and uninspired enemy design. Stay mad.

>get new special ability
>right besides one there's always a colored key
Again I disagree. Making areas blocked off only by the different abilities that player finds means that enterprising player is able to get past the skill-gates with some clever movement, intended or not.
If key doors were added on top of that, even if player managed to make it past the initial block, they'd come across a door, making all sequence breaks meaningless, and even impossible.

Touhou fanbase, much like another fanbase which I'll refrain from mentioning, shoves their little girls in every media they can, you can find spinoffs of a ton of games with Tohou characters in place of the existing ones

you're still being anal and complaining about me being anal, stop it, either you stop being anal or you accept the other side being anal

>FBoY is limited uses key, and the Ring is just another key
Those are examples of how it has backtracking just like DS1 does, I'm not saying it's different from DS1's keys. Where it exceeds it is that you can sequence break by killing The Rotten 4 times and skipping most of the bosses including three of the four big ones. IIRC DS1 speedruns did some sequence breaking with the key as starting gift before finding out that the intended path was actually faster.

Not saying the game's got good exploration, just pointing out how stupid those requirements are. You could argue that DS2 doesn't even have interconnectivity, just separate levels that have teleporters between them, but if backtracking and unlocking new areas is all that's required then it would qualify as much as DS1. King's Ring means backtracking to FoFG, Shaded Woods and Drangleic Castle, so it's not just to Majula and then somewhere new.

The smooth gameplay outweights the shitty design/story and the map is just right, not amazing nor bad. You're just a rabbid contrarian.

To name the grandfathers, the later Contra games and their grandchild Hardcorps Uprising and also Metal Slug from X forward, but maybe those are not movement tech based enough for you.

Scarlett castle or something. Not that good imo.

Great game but not a metroidvania

>you're still being anal and complaining about me being anal, stop it, either you stop being anal or you accept the other side being anal

I'm not the one trying to fight against a very clearly defined genre's definition. Also, you're not being anal, you're being retarded. You're comparing an apple to orange and trying to act like theyr'e the same thing.

is It because it's roguelite?

Rosenkreuzstilette and Freudenstachel are very good games, though much less heavy on danmaku there are traces of it. They're more pure Rockman clone with their own moe aesthetic. Very easy to pirate.
Bunny Must Die is a great game, more similar to Metroid than Rabi-Ribi but the bosses are much more hectic and difficult than the former. There are danmaku elements but not as much as Rabi-Ribi.
There are a few Touhou fangames that offer something vaguely similar, MegaMari being its own Rockman clone that blatantly shifts the majority of boss and sometimes stage focus to danmaku unlike Rosenkreuzstilette, and Mystical Chain which is like a 2D beat em up with fighting game combo elements and a strong emphasis on boss fights. Lionheart's later game, Tenjou no Tempest is probably more similar in that it has a degree of platforming as well

you don't need sequence breaks for a game to be enjoyable, and I'm not a big fan of looking at unintended usage of the game's gameplay to talk about their gameplay

some people can abuse overlooked mechanics and have fun with it and speedrun, great, but let's not use that as reference, please

this, however, I'm fine with, NG+ing areas was intended, unlike locking your camera in Metroid Prime 1 to be able to do an impossible jump and then getting the space jump 5 minutes in

again, you're being anal, just prove how gaining the ability to open a door isn't an ability

I just wanna talk about marrow, its so fucking cool. Why do these threads turn into such fuckery because of one dickweed

>rabid contrarian

Lol, settle down, big guy. It's a fact that the game has zero character variety and the boss fights are samey. The exploration portion is also very unmemorable, with barely any interesting/challenging moments; the game might as well have been a boss rush, since that was the only thing the developers gave any polish. You should stop trying to be such a wifu shitter and realize the game has flaws, despite being worth a playthrough anyway.

>again, you're being anal, just prove how gaining the ability to open a door isn't an ability

Already did. What does that grant you outside of opening the door? Abilities in Metroidvanias act like keys in that they allow access to new areas, but they ALSO grant you new abilities that can be used outside of that one function. As I stated earlier as an example the double jump gives you additional mobility ontop of access to new areas.

Pretty much
There's no set, interconnected world to explore and backtrack

Why do metroidvanias have a tendency to do an ending and then also a 'true' ending that involves tons more gameplay locked behind some convoluted secret?

in case you want ability to be something associated with your character, then replace key and door with a force field and your character being able to dispel the force field

>Already did. What does that grant you outside of opening the door?
an ability having only 1 use does not make it not be an ability

>Abilities in Metroidvanias act like keys in that they allow access to new areas, but they ALSO grant you new abilities that can be used outside of that one function.
and I agree it's better to have them than keys

>As I stated earlier as an example the double jump gives you additional mobility ontop of access to new areas.
see the above example of force field, you're being anal

also imagine you got a relic that allowed you to do a 10s wind-up punch in SotN that is the only thing that could break some weird statues or walls, and it does a lot of damage in combat, but because of the 10s wind-up it's completely useless outside of opening these walls, does that count?

>My favorite metroidvania is the western indie dark souls knock-off with cartoon graphics loved by nu-males.

Yeah, Reddit.

it might be the silent hill problem, where symphony of the night did it so well that other developers are desperate to recapture the same method, usually fucking it up sadly

>not knowing about the terraria autist that invades and tries to derail every 2d game thread and even Zelda BotW threads

abandon thread

Otherwise why would you collect all that shit?
Aside from the few hard ones, there really isn't a reason for people without completionist ambitions to be thorough.

Developers think it's a fun trick and the open ended structure allowing backtracking does well to facilitate it. For Castlevania itself it's that + tradition, I'm sure Bloodstained will do the same thing. I don't think they have much to worry about in regards to people quitting at the fake ending with the internet being so ubiquitous.

Of course you don't need sequence breaks to enjoy games, but they are integral part of the genre at this point.
And the problem with "unintended mechanics" is defining what is unintended. You can access lots of things early in Super Metroid by wall-jumping. It is hard to pull of for new players, but there is dedicated tutorial section for it in the game, so that is intended at least. And in Hollow Knight players can access areas early by pogoing off the spikes or enemies.
Only difference in these strategies to killing same boss multiple times in Dark Souls 2 is that former requires expertise in movement of the game, while latter is combat expertise.

only SotN out of your examples is a Metroidvania though, the others are not Castlevania games which is a pre-req for them to be a Metroid-like Castlevania (Metroidvania for short)