Retcons your entire franchise

>retcons your entire franchise

nothin personnel

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But is MGS4 even canon? Since it's a movie sequel and not a whole game

as much as I hate it

it is canon. really gave me that negative lookback on the series story I liked until 4

MGSV was a lot worse when it comes to retconning shit

>caring about MGS story beyond the first game
wew

Solid Snake dies in impotent virgin in the timeline of the Otacon ending for MGS1

Aside from Snake getting fucked over royally, and Meryl marrying the joke character who constantly shits himself, I didn't mind MGS4's story, even "muh nanomachines".

I can't believe mgs4 is going to be 10 years old this June, where the fuck did the time go lads?

LIQUIIID

movie xDDD

>chapter 5
>literally one (1) gameplay segment, two bossfights and a button mashing qte

It blew my mind when they said Fuck in this game

Nah, he at least fucked the not-Meryl chick from MG2, and i'm sure he got laid plenty before he joined Foxhound.

> Meryl marrying the joke characters
johnny need love too you mean-ass piece of shit

You crazy ? He completely filled Meryl with his geneseed at the end of MGS1

I could tolerate most of the game's stupidity because the gameplay was solid up until Naomi Hunter decided to kill herself for no reason.

Johnny was a retard

He and Meryl had to hold off the microwave hallway on Haven and he brought a mounted sniper for a close range shootout

Not in the ending where she died

I was in the Navy at the time on deployment, and I distinctly recall being ported in Hawaii, and not giving a shit because I just wanted to get home so I could play MGS4. I kind of regret that attitude in hindsight.

He actually sneaked off at the end, never having that promised dinner with Holly.

>really gave me that negative lookback on the series story I liked until 4
This happened to me after playing V on release. It made me retroactively hate the series, even all the games in it I knew I loved. I'm only now wanting to replay them again.

especially in the ending where she died

MGS4 is unironically my favorite MGS.

>story progresses in a way that doesn't align with your headcanon
>it's a retcon

dont worry i am retarded too

he fucked otacon at the end

Sunny is retconned to be their child after Otacon undergoes a vaginoplasty

>denying that MGS4 retconned things
wew lad

Sup Forums in a nutshell. The retcons in 3 were the worst for me. MGS should have stayed semi present to future.

Not my favorite, but I love it too. And I played it for the first time the summer before V came out, so it's not nostalgia talking

name one(3)

>retcons in 3 were the worst
name 3 of them

MGS1 ending, BB is alive only to die again, the real bad guys were the happy, quirky support team from mgs3, liquid didn't posses ocelot after all

Zero, Para-medic and Sigint ending up as bad guys wasn't a retcon, it's called character development, they just made choices that brought them to opposing side, which is pretty much one of the messages of MGS3 - "today's ally, tomorrow's enemy" or something like that.

MGS1 ending, the whole MGS2 story, the identity of the patriots

>the real bad guys were the happy, quirky support team from mgs3

And the little kid who yells "YIPEE!" in Phantom Menace became Darth Vader.

lol yes it was, they even turned Dr Clarke from mgs1 into a para medic, that's a retcon you moron

>raiden finds information about solidus' body from gw

>solidus was still alive at the time raiden came into contact with gw

>both eva and snake dont realize the wrong eye is missing from the body

>old bitch throws herself in a fire for solidus

>big boss shows up knowing everything thanks to naomi who died before he was awakened

10/10

That's not a retcon though, he already was darth vader as soon as that movie was written.
When Kojima wrote the support team from mgs3, he wasn't setting them up to be villains in the next game you dumbass.

The story in 4 is retarded, but the gameplay is pretty great and it is sad we will never get a new game on that engine without base building meme shit thanks to PW babbys

I'll never be mad at V's lack of inchworm crawl. Also, you could crawl in general up stairs, something that you somehow can't do in V. Fucking why

Changing Miller from black-haired third generation Japanese with all limbs attached into a blondie with terrible life story is an example of a retcon, this is just you not liking where story went.
The only thing that's actually changed is that Dr. Clarke was identified as male in MGS1, but that could be quite possibly attributed to Naomi assuming it, much like Olga's child was a "he" until Sunny was revealed.

>act 3
>foxdie magically doesnt affect liquid yet
>johnny and snake dont shoot even though their weapons are both still unlocked
>snake disguises himself as himself
>dude whistles even though he's trying to hide from guards
>there's a curfew and no one cares if you wear a different facecamo
>they dont see through the dudes pmc disguise even though they have SOP

I wish MGS4 was released outside of the PS3 so more people could play it, so they stopped pretending to hate it.

*Japanese-American

I am glad that 2 was rectoned.

That shit needed explaining.

NuRaiden was a bonus.

Thanks for another retcon i missed.

I did play it and its pretty bad. The gamepaly itself isnt bad but theres only two acts of actual MGS gameplay and the rest is just filler between cutscenes. The story wrecks the franchise and retroactively ruins the better games. Its not the worst game ever but its dreadful for waht it did to MGS. I understand it was your first MGS game but that doesnt make it ok.

>the whole MGS2 story, the identity of the patriots

those needed explanation and resolution

>it's not a retcon
>ackshully its meant to be a mistake
>mgs2 needed explaning
>y-you just didnt like it
>h-h-headcanon!!

No they didn't. Not everything has to be explaiend and resolved especially when they weren't the most important things to take away from MGS2. The events are not important the themes are. Its fucks like you that have filled Hollywood, TV and vidya with literal genre fiction crap.

>only two acts of actual MGS gameplay

Confirmed for having never played it.

Hell, one of the best stealth levels are in the final tanker levels.

It didn't matter, tha patriots were dead by mgs2 and it was all an AI wich was destroyed. That's an ending.

Ah yes, that area that takes 5 minutes to sneak trough is the pinnacle of stealth gameplay indeed

They're easy as fuck sprints to the next area before another 40 minutes of cutscene.

>people seriously think there was ever a plan for the MGS story

Protip: You should treat each game as its own contained story, only counting the previous games in the series, the games blatantly contradict themselves starting with MGS2.

>game has so many cool different weapons
>cant find myself to use them since I always want to non-lethal stealth through the game

>every act has a 20 to 30 minute ending cutscene
>also every act has a 10 to 20 minute briefing opening
what the fuck were they thinking

>durr mgs2 is about duh patriots n sheet we needz da answerz

And Hamlet was just about a dude killing his uncle.

Big Boss is a fake. Later expanded upon in MGSV when they had a playable fall guy, Venom.

Magic powers are back. This lead to vocal chord parasites later on you know. And it was genuinely scoffed at. In MGS2, Fortune's powers looked miraculous but it could easily be explained by an in-world item that deflected bullets. Ocelot had one too. Later on in MGS4, Kojima revisits 2 by saying Vamp was wearing high tech wall climb shoes. Hereby closing any cryptic magical shit in the present games.

The Patriots err the Philosophers. To expand on this, there's a subplot in MGS1 and 2 where they're trying to escape the grasp of these slimy jews. MGS2's after credits dialogue say they're dead, but there's overwhelming evidence that points otherwise. Including that funny submarine in MGS4. But in MGS3 turns out they're all dead.
Its said that Raiden was a subject of these guys and was sent in the Big Shell. But the sequel just kills development by saying they don't exist anymore and their microfilm with gorillion dollars in it was fake. And the retcon from 3 is suddenly retconned in MGS4 by saying these guys were alive all along and the one way to defeat them was through taking over the submarine AI. I think in canon the patriots were only defeated in MG:R through its villains.

I understand you. One day I'll do that murder playthrough where I make best use of the weaponry just for the sake of it.

mgs2 was supposed to be the last game, so i look forward to you elaborating your point, if you can

It's two stealth sections followed by a boss battle.

You know, like in the first MGS game.

The game was not made for the saske of making a good game but satisfying absolute fucktards likewho failed basic english lit and have consumed nothing but genre fiction their whole life. They think all media pieces are just plots.

protip: Thats what we're fucking saying. MGS4 ruins the previous games by going out of its way to explain every fucking plot thread and connect the whole thing together.

There was never any continuity. Hideo was making up the story as it went.

You don't have to take into account MGS4 when playing the previous games. The MGS story is retconned with each new game.

>wow a whole 10 minutes of stealth before a 5 minute boss battle
>This is truly the pinnacle of the series

Listen to yourself you fucking moron

turns out it was only one AI. There were others out there messing things uo.

>Not everything has to be explaiend and resolved
then why end on a cliffhanger that the AI was still out there?

>You should treat each game as its own contained story
why should I treat a direct sequel as it's own story?

>MGS2's after credits dialogue say they're dead, but there's overwhelming evidence that points otherwise.
including MGS4 saying that information was faked by the AI

>You don't have to take into account mgs4

we're talking about MGS4 which necessarily exists in the series as a whole.

Wanna take MGS4 on its own merits? Then its a fucking mess of unexplained plot threads with barely any gameplay. Who are these people? Why do I care? Why are they dumping all this story in one game? Wow what a piece of shit.

>When you realise that MGS4 only exists so Konami can in no way continue the story of Solid Snake without rebooting the series
>When you realise Peace Walker MGSV exists so they also can't add more to the story of Big Boss without rebooting the series

Only moves now are shitty spin offs, remakes or an entire series reboot.

I know Venom isn't Big Boss but V basically said Big Boss was building Outer Haven in secret whilst you where a decoy

>magic powers are back
They were always there, mantis, vamp, and now the the cobra unit. And all of them got retconned after or during 4.


> MGS2's after credits dialogue say they're dead, but there's overwhelming evidence that points otherwise.
What evidence is that? Because the Philosphers were exactly what MGS2 set them up to be, a long dead illuminati-like organization. If you're talking about the name change, then sure but it's not that big of a deal since it's supposes to distinguis between the old patriots(philosophers) and the A.I. patriots.

Raiden was sent by the A.I.patriots, obviously

I never said it was the pinnacle you fucking spaz.

And all the levels in MGS4 take longer if you actually bother to use stealth.

Although there is a lot more cutscenes than in any previous games, but that's also part of the point.

Okay but it's done worse. The boss battle was utter trash too, more a puzzle than a bossfight.

That's not what I am saying. It's that you should only take into account the game and the previous games, while ignoring the future games.

So when playing MGS2 you should only take into account the previous games. But you can safely ignore MGS3, MGS4 and MGSV.

>levels
When's the last time you replayed MGS4?
"Chapter 5" is one short section and a couple of boss battles

>more a puzzle than a bossfight.

What a tragedy. Also the stealth mechanics and level design in MGS4 are better than in any of the previous games. Only MGSV manages to come close but that also fucked up even worse in much more respects.

>I know you didn't have much in terms of choices this time. But everything you felt, thought about during this mission is yours. And what you decide to do with them is your choice...

The whole story is about how we percieve our reality. How culture and society moulds us. How the information we consume defines us. How as individuals all we can do is try to contribute in our own way as best as we can.

The story says you don't always beat the bad guy. Liquid gets away, the patriots still exist, and Raiden can barely discern reality and fiction. Theres always going to be forces that try to sway us and they're usaully not going to have our best interests. The best we can do is our own little contribution to the rest of humanity and hopefully counterreact the demons that plague us.

hope they remake 1-3 in the fox engine

Fortunes magical powers that she gained at the end of MGS2 and Vulcan Ravens shamanism was never retconned.

So how does this make MGS4 any less shit? Its a bizarre mess on its own, and in the context of "itself and the previous games" it ruins the stories of those previous games. Either way its a pile of garbage.

If you can't race through Act 5 without being detected then you have no right to post on this board. Are you fucking 12?

>Liquid gets away, the patriots still exist

and they both needed to be stopped

A year ago, from what I remember it's two levels, one focused on avoiding soldiers and the other on avoiding Geckos.

And the point the other guy made was that there was no stealth in the last acts of MGS4, which is blatantly untrue, you can play those levels as stealth levels.

Did you read any of the post? You don't decide how Kojima has to tell his story just because you're too thick to get it.

How badly did you fail english lit?

MGS4 is the best MGS game

It's just that there isn't much of it

>A year ago, from what I remember it's two levels, one focused on avoiding soldiers and the other on avoiding Geckos.
No it's literally one section. Chapter 5 has almost no real gameplay in it.
It'd be a worthless addition to the game if the Ocelot bossfight wasn't so great.

>So how does this make MGS4 any less shit?

Because MGS4 is almost pure metanarrative, way more than any of the previous games. If you try to interpret the game in a literal sense you will simply not get the message.

This article explains most of the messages in the game:

asiplaythem.tumblr.com/post/115961178976/post-postmodernism-the-meta-narrative-of-mgs4

>introduce plot threads
>supposed to be the last game
Kojima wanted it to be the last MGS game for himself to personally work on, the whole theme was about passing the responsibility down to the rest of his team. Even if that wasn't the case and it was actually supposed to be the last MGS then that's just shitty storytelling. You don't introdue new hooks into the story (Ocelot's escape in RAY, the Patriot list being false) only for it to be the last story in a series.

I never said there was no stealth. Its that theres barely any. They're just quick distraction to link you up to the next montage of art with narration

This desu

It's two sections, it's just that there are no loading screens because the PS3 has a lot better hardware than previous games.

It doesn't retcon, it expands to a retarded degree. Everything is completely explained down to the most autistic minutia. I guess that's what you get when you force some people to continue a series that should've ended before its fourth installation.
I consider the final confrontation between Liquid and Snake to be the absolute best shit in vidya ever

MGS4 is purposely literal. That is the whole point of its existence was to bring literal substance to a story built on themes and perceptions of reality. I'll read the article and respond to its points specifically but I can not see how it overcomes that.

I swear t ogod if its jsut a case of "lol its meant to be a metanarrative of metanarrative" or some other pretending to be retarded shit im going to anhero and take you with me

It has as much stealth as most previous games. It just doesn't feel that way because there is a lot more cutscenes.

Although it also has tons of action sequences, like the awesome mech battle.

>His ps4 addled mind thinks that demo level counts as two sections

fucking hell modern gaming is cancer

Genuinely one of the worst sequels of all time and one of the worst stealth games of all time.
I don't give a shit about the characters in the series, so I'm not upset about how anybody's treated, it's just a bad game. Anything with more cutscenes than gameplay is a joke.

Are you joking?

>Literally less than 5 hours of gameplay

You don't need to get upset, you just need to understand that MGS4 is a continuation of MGS2 that takes its themes even farther. It doesn't matter if people like it or not.

What really upsets me is how people didn't noticed MGS3 was doing the same thing.

V was a bigger retcon

t. never skipped the cutscenes on a replay

If anyone was in doubt that this kid wasn't even around for the release then this just exposes him

>not getting the reference

Confirmed for not having played the game.

MGS4 is 9 hours of gameplay and 9 hours of cutscenes.

Most MGS games have 9-10 hours of gameplay and 2-3 hours of cutscenes.