Is Ace Attorney one of the greatest vidya franchises of all time?

Is Ace Attorney one of the greatest vidya franchises of all time?
>The core gameplay is incredibly fun. Cross-examination were innovative for the time and the logic puzzles can get legitimately challenging.
>Gameplay keeps innovating with new gimmicks and features every single game while always staying true to its initial core design.
>Some of the best stories in vidya, period.
>Has top-tier bantz between the cast.
>Features an overarching storyline that's been continuous for over 15 years, resulting in years of character development and continuous plotlines rewarding longtime players.
>Absolutely fucking incredible OSTs that are almost entirely different for every single game.
>One of the most stylistic franchises of all time. The amount of presentation choices the series gets right in order create suspension is unbelievable.
>A legitimate cornerstone of the franchise's inherent design is to create crazy fucking turnabouts and hype moments.
>The series has remained incredibly consistent for over 15 years with no bad entries. All of them range from fantastic to okay at worst.

The series isn't without its faults, but the more I think about the more I realize how so few other franchises even come close to achieving anything like the quality of Ace Attorney's gameplay, presentation, stories, music, longevity, continuity, and overall consistency all at the same time.

Only thing I want to complain about is the Americanization of these characters is getting more difficult to the point we didn't even get Great Ace Attorney because Shu Takumi doesn't give a shit about us. Other then that, I agree OP.

I agree but the gameplay especially the detective part has been dumbed down really

They need to bring back psyche-locks as non-linear gates during investigations. In 2 and 3 they gave the player a lot more agency during investigations to figure shit out and explore at their own will. AA5 really fucked up the investigations by making them linear as fuck, which 6 fixed but still didn't utilize the locks the same way AA2 and 3 did.

Or they could just bring in the overhead Investigations from the AAI games instead. That would work too.

I only felt that way in DD, SoJ made it great again

Yes. And that's also why it's one of the least criticized series of videogames here

DGS wasn't localized because Capcom is retarded and thinks any game without the name "Phoenix Wright" in the title won't sell.

There's also legal shit with the Doyle estate that Capcom probably doesn't want to deal with just for a localization.

>One of the most stylistic franchises of all time. The amount of presentation choices the series gets right in order create suspension is unbelievable.
YES. So glad you got this point. The presentation is by far the best part of the series. I will never get tired of AA's sound design or the flawlessly executed transitions and perspective changes in court.

>Capcom is retarded and thinks any game without the name "Phoenix Wright" in the title won't sell
We probably wouldn't have got PLvsAA here either if it wasn't for the fact it was developed by Level-5 and localized by Nintendo.
It's clear Capcom only cares about the main series.

it's for that reason we will never get another shot at Apollo justice.
even though he's arguably one of the top 3 in popularity.

What do people think of Spirit of Justice? I kinda hate the characters in the beginning, especially in episode 3.

It's a contender for one of my favorites. The new characters were hit and miss, but the overarching plot kept me engrossed, with the stakes and surprise reveals at their peak. It's the first time I've taken a fictional language with any degree of seriousness.

Top 3 in the series easily

>According to the PL writers, Layton was modeled after Nick, taking only his qualities and none of his flaws
>During the making of DR1, the writers were concerned about the game coming off as a PW ripoff
Reminder that it's thanks to AA that franchises like Layton and Danganronpa exist

...

top 3

Worst game in the series.

>2-1
>good
>3-2 and 3-3
>bad

>great cases
>character development
>establishes rules for spirit summoning
best in the series, though it does drag on a lot

Phoenix cases all suck
Apollo cases are god tier
Athena case is decent

6-3 is great though.

>Phoenix cases all suck
>Apollo cases are god tier

6-3 is the worst case in the game

6-1 and 6-DLC are clearly worse. 6-3 had a great setup/story and had some of the best Seances in the entire game.

Top 3. Loved everything about the game, loved how high the stakes were and the setting, but I feel the weakest case in the game is Athena's case (6-4?). The other 2 in my top 3 are T&T and AAI2.

>>The core gameplay is incredibly fun. Cross-examination were innovative for the time and the logic puzzles can get legitimately challenging.
Franchise is pretty stagnant these days because it refuses to evolve
>>Gameplay keeps innovating with new gimmicks and features every single game while always staying true to its initial core design.
Gimmicks are just becoming annoying at this point, just a "selling point" for the new franchise. There are way too many now, and they're not that amazing.
>>Some of the best stories in vidya, period.
Calm the fuck down, they're ok, sure, but only stories I'd consider amazing would be AA3 and AAI2. The rest range from ok to mediocre, especially AA5 and beyond with their awful stories.
>>Has top-tier bantz between the cast.
Ok
>>Features an overarching storyline that's been continuous for over 15 years, resulting in years of character development and continuous plotlines rewarding longtime players.
They're just dragging on a story without finishing it. Takumi hates when a story drags on. It should end already.
>>One of the most stylistic franchises of all time. The amount of presentation choices the series gets right in order create suspension is unbelievable.
They've become a bit overdone with the 3D games, especially exaggerated animations and breakdowns. I get that the GBA was limited back then but c'mon, some 3D stuff isn't as charming.
>>A legitimate cornerstone of the franchise's inherent design is to create crazy fucking turnabouts and hype moments.
When they keep rehashing previous twists and plotlines it just becomes lame, like AA6 did a lot.
>>The series has remained incredibly consistent for over 15 years with no bad entries. All of them range from fantastic to okay at worst.
Eh I'd say AAI was mediocre at best, but alright.

Overall I think the series is past its prime. They're dragging on a story that won't end and characters are just becoming lame one-note cameos without any purpose other than fanservice.

3-2 wasn't bad but it wasn't amazing

fuck you 4-3 was fun

>bad
Nahyuta is irredeemable hot garbage.
The overall story sucked.
The villain was even worse than fucking phantom
Dhurke is the most forced "PLEASE LIKE ME" Gary Stu I've seen
Recycled a lot of shit from previous games.
Maya was just useless damsel in distress again
6-1 is one of the worst and most retarded cases
6-5 was a shitfest of recycled things. Among the weakest final cases.
DLC was shit and just shitty fan pandering.

>good
Trucy isn't a flanderized blob like in AA5
6-2 was great, 6-3 was good
Models and visuals were pleasant, except the "live" animations that looked fucking horrid

Overall an average game to me. Not trash, not great. Just ok, probably my 2nd least favorite mainline.

1-4 > 1-5
1-5 drags on for too long and fucks up the "after the von Karma trial Edgeworth disappeared" subplot from JFA. Turnabout Goodbyes is just perfect though.
>Gourd Lake is a great setting for the murder
>We finally learn about Phoenix's and Edgeworth's backstories
>Maya not being the cute quirky assistant and dealing with her feelings of uselessness (which leads to her getting the DL-6 bullet to finally BTFO Manfred)
>Larry saving the defense's ass in the second day
>Yogi talking about the events of DL-6 genuinely makes you feel sorry for the guy
>Manny in general
Also, Nick and Maya chatting with Grossberg in his office about DL-6 and the Hammond murder are some of the comfiest moments in the series.

>There are way too many now, and they're not that amazing.
While I thought the Seances were pretty neat, I agree.
6-DLC, even if it was a mediocre case, was actually pretty refreshing since it didn't have any gimmicks. Just good old cross-examination and character banter.

Eh. I don't really care much about comparing games between genres so I wouldn't necessarily go around saying that
I love the series myself though, it's definitely up there in my personal rankings

Though when new ones are introduced the old ones aren't used that much if at all (Psyche-Locks for example)
I liked Edgeworth's gimmick though, pure logic

>Ace Attorney
>Ghost Trick
>Hotel Dusk
the nintendo DS holy trinity.

It's definitely one of my favourite series, for all the reasons you mentioned.

I think they've just embraced how ridiculous it is at this point, and it's led to some hilarious shit, like Blackquill being a huge weeb.

>Franchise is pretty stagnant these days because it refuses to evolve
They introduce new shit every game. I can't see how the series could evolve without drastically overturning the existing core design or introducing overhead AAI-style investigations.
>Gimmicks are just becoming annoying at this point, just a "selling point" for the new franchise. There are way too many now, and they're not that amazing.
The only arguably bad one if the mood matrix. Psyche Locks have definitely been misused since AA3 though.
>Calm the fuck down, they're ok, sure, but only stories I'd consider amazing would be AA3 and AAI2. The rest range from ok to mediocre, especially AA5 and beyond with their awful stories.
AA1, AA3, AA4, AAI2, and AA6 all have incredibly solid plots. The games that don't have as good of overarching storylines usually make up for it by having good individual scenarios (e.g. 2-4, I-4).
>They're just dragging on a story without finishing it. Takumi hates when a story drags on. It should end already.
The only thing they're dragging on is the Apollo-Trucy shit from AA4, which I'm not opposed to so long as they actually finish the storyline in the next game. I do agree that there should be a definite "end point" for the main series though. AA4 should've been the start of a near flesh-slate Apollo Trilogy. AA5 fucked things up by bringing back Phoenix fulltime and introducing Athena.
>They've become a bit overdone with the 3D games, especially exaggerated animations and breakdowns. I get that the GBA was limited back then but c'mon, some 3D stuff isn't as charming.
The 3D animations are great, fuck off.
>When they keep rehashing previous twists and plotlines it just becomes lame, like AA6 did a lot.
What twists and plotlines did AA6 excitability reuse?

>1-5 drags on for too long and fucks up the "after the von Karma trial Edgeworth disappeared" subplot from JFA
They actually changed that bit in the 3DS port to something like "after that case and the case after that".
They also changed the part in 1-2 where Phoenix says "I never thought I would end up in the defendant's chair myself" to "I never thought I would end up being the defendant in this case" to acknowledge 3-1.

>with no bad entries

Are you fucking nuts, Apollo Justice exists.

Fuck off.

AA4's great.

Honestly I'd play the DGS games even without some fucking American localization

>What twists and plotlines did AA6 excitability reuse?
Rehashing the Morgan/Misty feud with Garan/Amara
Rehashing Maya being kidnapped and Phoenix forced on the trial
Rehashing Maya being "hidden" all the time by channeling a dead person
Rehashing "the prosecutor was just being an ass because he was protecting his little sister" from Blackquill, who was rehashing it from Lana to begin with

Is it the worst game in the series? Yes
Is it a bad game? No, it's still good, just not as top tier as the rest

No you

>alright first case
>boring second case
>absolutely awful third one
>mediocre fourth one
>great

>Is it the worst game in the series?
that's AAI

4-1 was in my opinion one of the best starter cases, if not the best. I enjoyed 4-2 alot, 4-3 just needs to get rid of the video cutscene by letting you skip, and 4-4 is good up until the last section. And some of the new tracks are quite good. Am I the only one who enjoyed this game over AA5?

4-1 is the best first case in the entire series
4-2 is average
4-3 is awful
4-4 is great

They're bottom 2 together, even with the boring beginning I think AAI's last two cases make up for it. I also unironically really enjoyed Alba and having to really fight for the win.

AAI is deadass better than AJ solely because Lang is a better foil and villains are more fun.

AAI has the most boring literally-who-gives-a-fuck story in the franchise. That alone makes it the worst entry.

>Kamiya is responsible for AA3's climax reusing the Pursuit theme
This man is a legend.

What did the DGS translation team mean by this?

What a beast. That's one of the most HYPE moments in the entire series.

>no shit tier
I like this list.

based kamiya

What a fucking awful team that gathered to translate this game. Literally I began learning Japanese last year and I'm soon going to become fluent enough to play the game, and these fucks are STILL not done.

The man clearly has eye for kino moments.

He's also the voice of Godot, isn't he?

>AAI has the most boring literally-who-gives-a-fuck story in the franchise

No that's still AJ

God damn that moment was kino.

You're a brainlet. The translation itself is the easy part, integrating it into the game is the hard part.

>Rehashing the Morgan/Misty feud with Garan/Amara
The only similarity are two sisters feuding.
>Rehashing Maya being kidnapped and Phoenix forced on the trial
I guess but it was done from a completely different perspective that made it feel original and fresh.
>Rehashing Maya being "hidden" all the time by channeling a dead person
It's been awhile since I played AA6 but I don't remember them making a big about Maya being missing in AA6 as it was in AA3.
>Rehashing "the prosecutor was just being an ass because he was protecting his little sister" from Blackquill, who was rehashing it from Lana to begin with
Blackquil and Lana were never outright dicks to the protagonist or underwent a serve personality change like Nahyuta, they were just characters with a hidden backstory which is literally every single prosecutor throughout the franchise.

Why haven't they put Miles' games into the eShop, yet? Seems like a no-brainer.

>from a completely different perspective that made it feel original and fresh.
Come on, it was lame as fuck. It completely ruined all the tension built-up on that case.
I thought Phoenix was just going all in, 100% serious, but LOL NOPE he was just being blackmailed
Fuck that

people would probably question why there's no AAI2 in the west

God damn I could not figure out the D. Vesquez case for the life of me. The t-bone steak plate was okay but holy shit, I could not differentiate Jack Hammer to Will Power's injury at all. Had to basically use all strikes and reset the game to figure what evidence contradicted it by process of elimination.

T&T was the weakest, aside from that, good list

Past night I Greg-blasted your sister.

They're probably port it soon enough. It's a shit port anyway so who cares?

>4-3 is awful

>not liking cases built around music, magic, and smuggling

It's like you hate fun or something

Maybe they're waiting until they get that English localization ready for the second game.

(laughs)

You can criticism it but that doesn't make it a rehash.

Why didn't Crapcom endorse the AAI2 fan translation? Didn't they work together with some fan translation group for some other game?

The same reason they didn't do it themselves. No amount of outsourcing can make up for the fact they didn't believe in it.

Enjoyed it except for the final case.

Why people always forget about the AA5 DLC case? It was great and better than the rest of the game

I want to gain insight into the scent of Rayfa's armpits

But why? Fucking Japan man, how did this stuff not sell?

Call me a heretic, but while I enjoy AA, I really think Danganronpa handled the investigation and trial aspects a hell of a lot better.

It' s a visual novel, you fucktard.

investigation maybe but trials? no

Most of Apollo's parts in that game embody pretty much everything I dislike about the games now. I don't give a shit about his goddamn backstory. I don't even dislike Apollo himself, just how the writers keep using him whenever they want him to be the focus.

The build up was great, but it didn't pay off.
And that goes for both halves.

If those games didn't go full retard (even more than AA already does I mean) at the end and didn't have the dating sim stuff they'd be beloved games on here. Kodaka's a hack but he clearly has some talent for designing mysteries that are fun to solve, that aspect of the game is just buried under a lot of shit.

AAI is basically like Dangan investigations, minus the waifu baiting.

It looks like one, but it's actually part that and part point and click.
Investiogations spinoffs are even more the latter.

First trilogy was great, rest is only so-so

Capcom really needs to step it up.

What do you mean by ''here'', AA threads?

Do people really prefer Dual Destinies to AA4? I couldn't forgive it for removing the examination feature from general purpose even if the trials and characters were great, which they weren't.

>I thought Phoenix was just going all in, 100% serious, but LOL NOPE he was just being blackmailed
The two facing off at all is dumb to begin with. Phoenix playing prosecutor is dumb to begin with. Fuck this "hero vs hero" bullshit that's popular at the moment.

The DR cast in general was a lot more sympathetic than AA's. There were only a few characters who got to talk in trials, and those who were only relevant to one case had one gimmick and were repetitive about it. The series wasn't good at banter, and when half the gameplay involves conversing it pretty much has to be. I looked forward to DR's trials because characters who otherwise never interacted would contrast and play off of each other. It was an interesting opportunity.

>Fuck this "hero vs hero" bullshit that's popular at the moment
?

>even if the trials and characters were great, which they weren't
DD had some fun side-characters in there. All the AA games do really, but Sup Forums typically forgets about them all as soon as the next game comes out.

>I couldn't forgive it for removing the examination feature from general purpose
Same.
It's kind of odd how the main series has devolved since the trilogy, starting from AJ where you couldn't present profiles anymore. DD added that perspective change thing, but still.
SoJ tried to return to the old form somewhat, but I miss being able to present profiles.
For example, presenting Phoenix's profile led to some pretty hilarious stuff during the investigations.

Reminder that AAI2 is the pinnacle of the series since it doesn't have a single bad case, ties everything together and also has the best soundtrack.

T&T's individual peaks are better though but it's brought down by its middle parts.

Also debeste prosecutor

I'm still mad they never localized AAI2. I know there is a fan translation but still.

They're both shit by AA standards. Here are some of my problems with AAI
>Bad/questionable writing (Edgeworth being even more of a cunt than usual for some reason; the fucking DETECTIVE being afraid of blood all of a sudden, even though he found a dying message written in blood in his first appearance in the series and didn't sperg out; Kay suddenly deciding to forgive Calisto and letting her go with a slap on the wrist despite being hot on her trail for years for Byrne's murder)
>Forgettable minor characters (seriously, does anyone even care about lollipop waifu or the jew/gypsy guy)
>Butchered old characters (see above for Edgeworth and Gumshoe; Oldbag being stripped of her few good qualities and being even more unhelpful than usual despite the fact that she's dealing with Edgey). I think Franziska is the only returning character that actually benefitted from AAI's writing.
>Localization (ok, this one is a different kind of problem, but Edgeworth's speech style kind of bugged me in this game; I know he talks fancier than others, but words like secretariat and personage sound more in line with, say, Luke Atmey's speech; also, the sudden NGHOOH)
>The plot (who gives a shit about some smuggling ring)
>Boring cases (can't have a fun case with boring characters)
>Kay (What is even the point of this character? She feels superflous in a series which had three cute quirky assistants before her, plus I have trouble picturing Edgeworth letting some random kid he just met/didn't even remember investigate with him in case 3; Little Thief could've been given to you by Ema, Gumshoe could've been your assistant for the whole game and Kay could've been erased from the game with no problems, after all, Edgeworth still would have a beef with Calisto since she kind of tried to shoot him, and a reason to go after her)

I still liked Lang, Shih-na, case 4 and its characters, which is more than I can say for AJ (I'm replaying it right now, will make a post about it later).

>also has the best soundtrack.
um