So now that the dust has settled

Can we all agree that Maiev was right all along?

Tyrande is a hypocritical cunt who killed innocent night elves who were just doing their job. She sets Illidan free, Illidan goes on a genocide,and eradicates multiple night elf cities, summons the naga, buries a bunch of Watchers alive, then almost tears the planet apart.

All the while Malfurion is wringing hands and chanting "Tyrande and Illidan are good bois, they dindu nuffin" Then instead of sentencing him to death, they let loose the confirmed genocidal maniac Illidan to Outland, to cause even more mayhem and destruction.
Just... great.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/tcGbuDlnm_k?t=5m56s
youtube.com/watch?v=QGEQeuu_Hrk
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id be willing to agree that you dont know what youre talking about; illidan saved the world in w3 and made peace with his brother in the expansion, as well as the fact that he wasnt doing evil things was exposed: 5:56
youtu.be/tcGbuDlnm_k?t=5m56s
illidan is one of the best characters in the setting

yes, but you must look at the bigger picture. blizzard needed villains for their mmo.

wasnt doing evil things in w3 or the expansion is what i meant, im not sure about prior in lore but seems like he's been overall judged for doing questionable things that were actually intended with good intentions, he just didnt announce all the details to everyone.

Then they made him evil for no reason in BC and in Legion he "redeems" himself by imprisoning Sargeras for all eternity(or until blizzard runs out of ideas again and reuse them).

I always thought Bc pretty much killed the lore from warcraft 3, Kael'thas and Lady Vashj story was also trash.

He wasnt doing anything in Outland thought, that whole expansion Illidan was sitting in the black temple attacking the legion, when the adventurers just suddenly burst in and start attacking him without asking any question.

>I was just going to blow up the entire continent of Northrend to defeat the Lich King for the Burning Legion
>Who cares about all the innocent lives I'm about to destroy, serving the legion is the important thing here!

Illidancucks are the worst.

idk if you know 'lorerunner' but thats something ive heard from him as well, but theyve kind of fixed it with legion(mostly?) and the book about him had something else about it. but yeah, hes def not evil, like arthas he's a relateable character thats hard to just point the finger at and say "they are evil", because their actions are understandable, altho in arthas' case altho it was understandable, he indeed stoop low when he took froustmourne, but perhaps its also arguable whether that was a must to do at that point, but he did say fuck the squad and nothing will stand between me and my revenge to protect da ppl which is obviously just nesting some selfish desires in a bigger cause

>kill a NE town to steal some ships and bikes
"Dindu nuffin" my ass.

For Arthas is also heavily implied that he was holding back the undead, without him they would run free and overrun the whole world. That is why Bolvar has to step up to be the next lich king, so yeah Arthas wasnt evil.

Tyrande is an awful character because she is only really herself in the short part of the campaign where you play as her. She starts the campaign as this exciting new type of edgy amazon queen, but as soon as Malfurion shows up she starts following him around and slowly losing agency, until WoW where she is one of the most invalid characters of all time. The only way her character makes sense is to write her off as 'dumb bitch'. Tyrande is like when your fiancee wrecks the car pulling into an intersection the wrong way without looking, and she keeps ranting it was the other vehicle's fault even though she was completely in the wrong and you're the one stuck with a $15,000 bill. You stop taking her seriously and make sure she doesn't get close to anything too dangerous. Tyrande got fucking voted off the island after Warcraft 3.

>WoW lore

it would be nice if you could form your response in a nice manner rather than... that
my response to you: what makes you think that spell would blow up northrend? and if you show where it says that, include reference to there being any innocent lives in northrend at that time
defeating the lich king goes against the legion's desires so... what are you saying?
plus, if the picture you paint (blowing up northrend 'to serve the legion') is true, what does that say about Malfurion, Kaelthas and Tyrande who seem to be on board?
i like illidan based on the information abouth im ive been exposed to, feel free to, if not conversate like you feel the person youre speaking to is a human being, at least stand behind your claim and explain it instead of just tossing it and pretending like it makes sense with no explanation

yeah, heard that as well
i think you mean elder scrolls lore. WoW lore is actually consistent

That was not how it was presented tough.
Illidan was enslaving the Draenei and killing them in the process.
It's stupid I agreee, especially with the Legion recon, which make it look like that is he'd just taken 10 seconds before attacking to tell the heroes what he was doing, all oif it could've been averted.

It's fine, because Illibro was the chosen one all along

>every orc is a hunch
>draenei retcon
>like half of the BC bosses were resurrected for the sake of name dropping
>consistent
And that's just right of the bat. WoW is fanfiction tier.

i heard BC was questionable in terms of lore logic, if you will, so lets put BC aside, and not every orc is a hunch, right? draenor orcs werent?
anyway, yeah warcraft lore isnt as consistent as tolkein lore, but compared to elder scrolls, i can actually immerse myself in the world and its history without almost ever finding inconsistencies unlike elder scrolls *lore* which is the opposite

Tyrande freeing illidan wasnt that weird since in the first war he also ended up helping her out and providing valuable help. Sure he made the new well but hey, that ended up giving NE their immortality. If it wasnt for arthas setting illidan up and varthimas having divine armor he couldve helped the NE a lot with the fights ahead. I think the medium (videogame) with limited campaign chapters meant they already have him cross the line 1 mission in. If they gave him more time in the NE world helping to fight the legion he couldve seen like a valuable addition and not someone who immediately goes back getting high on demon magic.

The TFT campaign where he first slaughters everything only to then say "yeah I was on your side" was kinda stupid. Fighting maiev makes sense, but the collateral damage was stupid. Also having him cackle when he got the eye of sargaras instead of telling maiev that he just wants to nuke the lichking and kill the undead was plot enforced stupidity.

Arthas holding the UD back is bullshit, they did the same with SC2 where kerrigan suddenly had some good inside of her left. In SC1 the entire BW story was about how kerrigan pretended to be good only to show her true colors and be truly evil.
Arthas in UD1 told varthimas that he damned his allies and he doesnt feel a thing. Which varthimas says is because frostmourne took his soul. Then throughout the entire fight he never says he feels bad or has some kind of moral qualm preventing him from fucking shit up.

>i heard
So, you don't know shit? Why are you even posting then?

nice picture. looks so oldschool generally speaking in terms of gaming, not just wow. obviously the NE chick is great too

what i heard was pretty much what you stated, wasnt it? i heard from a "lorerun" was someone who has played all the games and expansions, spanning hundreds of episodes on YouTube, and ive read on multiple things that matched what he was saying, so i believe him without going through the entire 20 years of gameplay and books myself.
if you have something you actually disagree with, go ahead.
havent really been told i was wrong about something "ive heard" thus far, so...
or do you think hearing about stuff inherently means only being exposed to wrong information? id like to not assume that

the resolution helps. I think its the fact that the artstyle is more of the classic sword and sorcery you saw in the 90s vidya, although it has softer lighting which reminds me of everquest art. There the main girl has a smooth white skin with minimal shading as well. Which the NE girl also seems to have.

The only thing Im divided on is the panty flash. At the one hand its a panty flash, at the other hand barely covering it could give the impression of a amazonian woman who goes commando. Further distancing her from any normalcy

Doesnt matter how well you know the warcraft lore, if you think you know it all, they retcon the shit out of it.

WC1 isn't consistent with WC2, WC isn't consistent with WC3 and WoW the changed most of the stuff. That without counting all the books, comics and other stuff. Heck, I doubt that TES lore is more inconsistent.

but its still implied he was holding the undead back, altho its debateable in what manner, it could be his soul in froustmourne trying to push back as much as possible

>WoW lore is actually consistent
funny, they changed demon lore like 5 times in 2 expansions

a lot of it is the art besides the logo and ne chick as well

well, orcs did deduce NEs are more 'savage' than elves they were used to, so thats kind of in line with that

tell me if im wrong; im assuming you havent tried delving deep into elder scrolls lore, which might be because you havent gotten into elder scrolls?
if im right, id say youre both missing out on some great games and both saving yourself from the annoyance of trying to dig deep on many, many topics of the lore and finding out that so many of the foundation is simply not set in stone, which is terrible. in WoW theres actually many many of the foundation set in stone as well as many historical events and the nature of magic etc, thats the difference. i know warcraft lore has inconsistencies but as someone who delved into the lore of both series i can tell you that in comparison, warcraft's amount and types of inconsistencies is minor in comparison.

oh and if you know of games with as much lore which is more consistent compared to warcraft, feel free to name them

>you see, this might be shit, but it is nothing compared to this giant pile of elephant shit over here.
>trust me, i have done my research and digged into both with my head first

Sure you can imagine that. Sure you can state it outright in the lore that arthas did so. But it doesnt make any sense with how he acted and what is told. In any medium that has this kind of plot where a character is corrupted but a part of him is still good they drop in hints. Either obvious ones of the character suddenly relenting and everyone being kind of confused. Or more subtly where he goes at it but then in the end it is revealed a few of his "mistakes" werent mistakes but small pushbacks of his good side.
In WC3 UD campaign and TFT campaign nothing showed him holding back. If the first mission in TFT showed him allowing the peasants to flee into the hills it wouldve made sense. But no, he makes it a point to seal of all the escape routes of the peasants to kill them all. There wasnt even a scene of him finding out that there was a 4th route and he goes like "oops, well I guess we let those stragglers live" to indicate he might have harbored some reservations.
And then in the final scene its implied his spirit pretty much got smashed by nerzhul who took over his body. So if anything its 90% nerzhul in there with 10% arthas. And of that 10% arthas maybe 1% may be good. And its not like metzen is a genius writer or WC3 is very subtle. If he wanted to redeem arthas he wouldve put in a few big hints. The only human thing arthas does is telling kelthuzad that he considers him a friend. And this is told to us, by arthas. Instead of showing it through his actions.

>im assuming you havent tried delving deep into elder scrolls lore, which might be because you havent gotten into elder scrolls?
Yeah, usually I don't like 1st person RPGs, so never bothered with TES series. WoW lore is shit and you only listened to some WoW fanboy.

I can't really name one more inconsistent famalam.

You bitch a lot about TOS lore, did they brought back to life death charters all the time?

>games with as much lore which is more consistent compared to warcraft
No games have more inconsistent lore than warcraft. You try and name one

im not saying it might be shit, having some inconsistencies doesnt make it shit, im saying that the amount of inconsistencies, i barely notice, while with TES lore i mostly notice the lack of things set in stone and the inconsistencies when i try to delve in
ive read and seen and heard quite a bit of it and ive loved it, and jumping to the conclusion that i listened to some WoW fanboy isnt evidence that i did, in my estimation he is actually not a fanboy as he is both a big fan of warcraft and of TES, and in the TES "lorerun" he actually got 3 of those devices you click on to keep track of a certain thing, specifically to track "dabateable" parts of the lore etc with the other 2
with wacraft 3 and wow there has been barely of the brokenness of the lore, its fairly set in stone and consistent for me to want to keep learning more about, and it stays interesting. TES lore fails at that. youre free to also look for "elder scrolls lorerun" and "warcarft lorerun" on youtube and see for yourself whether your assumption is correct.
and as for your other question: imagine that pretty much most of the historical events, concepts of creation, foundation of the setting, etc, was all no set in stone, and debateable, to the point that a considerable chunk of the community agree the lore is "open" and that fanfiction of some employees that dont work there anymore is considered canon for them. yes, its that bad. feel free to edify yourself with the complete mess if you so desire: youtube.com/watch?v=QGEQeuu_Hrk

It's such a damn shame they fucked up the night elves in wow
a lot more could have done with them than just turning them from amazons into forest sluts, the entirity of the orc/nelf conflict could have been a damn fun fantasy vietnam

imagine that pretty much most of the historical events, concepts of creation, foundation of the setting, etc, was all no set in stone*

>imagine that pretty much most of the historical events, concepts of creation, foundation of the setting, etc, was all no set in stone*
So, like WoW without all the asspulls? Looks like TES is definitively more consistent than WoW.

in WoW you know how the world was created, the nature of all types of magic, most historical events are set in stone, so what are you talking about? check the first 10 minutes of the video i added to get the full picture of what a mess tes lore is, and then youll see
dunno what you mean by asspulls and if you get the picture and still think tes lore is more consistent, elaborate and compare how

She was always meant to be a stalking psycho, TBC fucked up the story.

Even in her HOTS version, they make tons of jokes about her being obsessed with putting Illidan in restraints.

>dude sargeras didndu nuffin
>LMAO voidlords out of the blue
>BTW azeroth is a strong independent woman
Yeah, totally set in stone lore. And no, I ain't going to waste time with your video, is pretty obvious the guy is an idiot that don't knows his shit.

Maiev was always right. Except she let the lust for vengeance consume her and she played herself. Big mistake.

>is pretty obvious the guy is an idiot that don't knows his shit.
Refute his claims then.

I've already did, idiot. The 3 things I said were asspulls from WoW and changed "how the world was created, the nature of all types of magic, most historical events".

you thinking its pretty obvious isnt evidence that it is. feel free to actually check for yourself lol
not sure if youre looking for a conversation or to just stand your grounds on whatever. and you mentioned 3 things i dont know much about, as if quoting that i talked about them, also you said very specific things about them instead of saying most of the stuff surrounding them is not set in stone and is inconsistent
like, my entire point is that the lack of inconsistencies and things not set in stone in warcraft compared to tes lore lets me actually dig fairly deep into the lore and enjoy it, and have it stay interesting. you seem to be jumping to your own conclusions and assumptions and standing your ground without being open to the idea that your on-the-fly assumptions might be wrong. whatever you may think, this is still my experience, and youre not really communicating in a way that helps the conversation lol
if you want an argument, im not your guy. i say what i think, youre free to think what you want even if its based on avoiding looking into the matters yourself. shrug

when you save the world by attacking shattrath and pretending to be retarded/evil provoking the naaru to send adventurers to kill you at the black temple (which you continued to defile even though it was a draenei holy site because you were pretending to be retarded/evil) and you die by the hand of your right hand man and your crazy stalker who you trick into imprisoning your corpse for several years only for it to be stolen by the burning legion so that the alternate version of a warlock that was killed decades ago can try to reanimate you as the vessel of sargeras but the ritual is interrupted by an old man with a love of memes who puts you back in your body so that you can lead the adventurers who killed you like a decade ago (the ones who didn't quit the game at least) into the tomb of sargeras so you can use the teleport stone thing you had them put back together while you were dead to teleport the enemy's home planet literally right next to azeroth so that you can force the people of azeroth mostly against their will into a fight to the death with the legion where you will free the titans from an attempt to enslave them that you probably didn't even know about, all so that you have a chance to fight the guy who gouged out your eyes and laughed at you a few thousand years ago

>the entire BW story was about how kerrigan pretended to be good only to show her true colors and be truly evil.
She was wronged, betrayed and left for dead. Nothing unusual about her motivations here.

see

see if youd like to elaborate on your
"
>said X
>said Y
"
go ahead. id like to know what youre talking about, dude
and i literally just posted that, theres no way you had enough time to read it. plz.

Amazing.

post everything official of that nature

>reading speedlet
Guess that explains a lot of things.

Go read a fucking wiki if you want to learn all the Warcraft lore, I ain't going to type 500 pages here for you.

Also all boils to my first post. Why are you even posting here if you don't know shit about WC lore?

Just According to Keikaku

>bring in another game to defend your shit lore
Warcraft has been fan wank since the first expansion, get over yourself

Jimmy tried to find her on tarsonis and then went back to her in her pod in the mission when you hatch her. And that didnt stop her from killing jimmy's friend. Sure killing the duke and going for mengsk, but fenix?

And he's still a cuck, lol

its chinese fanart which they put on the fanart section

We think and measure things logically, women don't. You betray a woman, you just fucked your whole world.

jimmy didnt betray her though

Everyone seems to forget how many wardens tyrande killed for some reason, and someho she's completely forgiven for it too

I wish Blizzard would either retcon or split timelines for a Warcraft IV. A game for non autistic people that ignores everything after The Frozen Throne.

She just got pumped by the zerg overmind after being dumped to die, do you honestly think a woman is going to give a shit about anything good or noble, let alone logical at this point? I cheated on a girl once and she stole my dog and then had my dad fired for "attempted rape" at his job. YOu hurt a woman, she's going to fuck your whole reality.

i did. just not all of it through a wiki, lol im not gonna read 500 pages like youre not gonna write them.
you first criticized that i knew something by hearing it, eventho i stated the exact thing you stated. youre just looking silly now
you never even went into any specific explanations of anything ive said that you disagree with, wow lore wise
feel free to give a summary of the poorly meme-styled third-sentences you typed earlier as if i was typing them. lol
im not defending my shit lore
inconsistencies are shit. overall i love wow lore. i even lore tes lore, its just about 200 times more broken to the point that i cant delve into it and find that enjoyable to do for long
i enjoy the lore, its fairly consistent for me, you dont have to think that. im right within my experience, youre right within yours if you think its shit
compared to wow, anyone who knows a fair bit about both settings' lore would say (and i havent encountered the opposite) that tes lore is pretty much broken, while wow, eventho has inconsistencies, still has plenty set in stone, most of it
thats objectivity, not subjectivity, and if you think its not true, explain how. i dont understand what you think youd achieve by saying "lol no" and then proceeding to not say anything else about your stance, it achieves nothing

The world Vs The lich king Vs Sargeras?

>I cheated on a girl once
So you did something wrong.
Jimmy didnt
>not planting crack in her office desk and calling the police

>attempted rape
explain

any by saying "i dont defend my shit lore", what i mean is: i didnt say 'my' lore is shit, and im not defending it. just explaining how i enjoy it compare to other lore

>you never even went into any specific explanations of anything ive said that you disagree with, wow lore wise
>feel free to give a summary of the poorly meme-styled third-sentences you typed earlier as if i was typing them. lol
Hear me, you brainlet, the 3 things I cited as asspulls were asspulls that didn't existed until the latest expansions of WoW, straight huge retcons that completelly changed you loved "set in stone" argument. More like "set in clay, lol".

>poorly meme-styled third-sentences
Don't reply to me again without proper paragraphs, punctuation and capitalization, you double nigger.

pretty sure kael was the one who sabotaged illidan by attacking shattrath, kael's the one with the most fucked up bullshit heel turn lore

>Who cares about all the innocent lives I'm about to destroy
>In the that unpopulated frozen wasteland
>That is also now home to the undead scourge
>That is trying to wipe out all life on the planet


Yea... what a monster.

She did all that because I broke up with her and she went completely ballistic. I told her about the cheating months after, when I talked to the cops about it. That's what I did actually, except with weed, I don't know anyone who'll sell me hard stuff.

She walked in on a HR interview for my dad while he was waiting for the guy to come, she got in the building claiming to be his niece and then took off her coat in the office and tried to force herself on him, they struggled and when the rep came in she just shouted rape and got him fired. The cops obv didn't believe it and let my dad go but the company didn't want anything to do with him after. I'm more pissed about my dog she literally fucking stole him in broad daylight and kept him hungry for days the crazy bitch.

What a bigot!
#nerubianlivesmatters

it's more like destroying northrend would've resulted in all the ice there melting and globally fucking with the ecosystem while also flooding most of the world

Nerubians were already all #Liched, the only non-undead left in Northrend in WC3 were the ice trolls and wendigos and other beasts. And the faceless ones, I guess, but I don't think Illidan or the Nelves knew about them.

>Don't reply to me again without proper paragraphs, punctuation and capitalization, you double nigger.
">dude sargeras didndu nuffin
>LMAO voidlords out of the blue
>BTW azeroth is a strong independent woman"
"TOS lore"?
forgot your punctuation there, grammar nazi, and whats with that terrible typo? that aint gonna be accepted into this academic image board
demanding perfect grammar without using it yourself and even without making conversation like youre speaking to another human, damn dude, what makes you think youll regulate my speech or that ill care about your OCPD regarding perfect grammar, which you btw dont follow strictly yourself?
on topic: none of the 3 meme-styled " " quotations " " you made make much sense
who said sargeras did nothing?
voidlords outta the blue? huh?
azeroth is a strong independant woman... ? the only logic i can make out of that is that your new cutting edge jump to conclusion is that im some SJW. what are you talking about?
are you sure you want to have a conversation? or just say shit for the lulz?

>not then afterwards raping her since she already cried wolf

>resulted in all the ice there melting and globally fucking with the ecosystem while also flooding most of the world

The warcraft world has a massive bottomless whirlpool in the center of the world.

It's not earth.

>pandaria
Is that some sort of fanfic map?

furion states that he is splitting the world in half and the earth is in pain. Its not unusual to think it would fuck up the earth in some degree, the Undead plague also turned green pastures into a wasteland.

Also why the fuck are the broken isles so far away from the maelstrom? I though the maelstrom was made by the well of eternity that was destroyed and sank into the ocean creating the maelstrom. With the broken isles being the pieces of land surrounding sargaras/well of eternity that were raised by illidan

>that god-tier voice-acting and music

Christ what an amazing game. I need to replay wc3 and tft again.

Is a WoW map dude, ofc shit was retconned.

I fucking loved the music in wc3 my dude

she wasn't wrong but she technically isn't correct either. its got layers, man

>kul'tiras doesnt exist

was great indeed

this
there is one reason why we call him the betrayed while normies call him the traitor

What happens to Maiev at the end of Legion anyway?

what I want to know is why the BROKEN isles is mostly a singe island

trully a hero

Isn't this isle?

Human OST sucks dick.
I work out to "Bloodlust" furiously.

she fell in love with my troll priestess and they lived happily ever after