Game devs setting up roundtable discussion on how to counter anti-loot box legislation at GDC 2018

vg247.com/2018/02/28/game-devs-setting-up-roundtable-discussion-on-how-to-counter-anti-loot-box-legislation-at-gdc-2018/

>As part of this year’s Game Developers Conference, one talk in particular is advocating against “burgeoning legislation around the world against loot boxes.”

>The roundtable discussion, called Censorship Strikes Back, is part of GDC 2018’s schedule, and will take place March 21.

>The talk is hosted by Daniel Greenberg, CEO of Media Rez and part of the International Game Developers Association (IGDA)’s Anti-Censorship and Social Issues Committee.

>In the talk, Greenberg hopes developers can come together to discuss how to protect their rights from “game censorship” in several topics, including legislation around loot boxes, the banning of Augmented Reality (AR) at certain locations, and the World Health Organization’s recent classification of “gaming disorder” as a mental health condition.

>The talk’s pitch describes these as “assaults on their self-expression and business rights” and hopes to explore the implications of these developments and how developers can “protect themselves and support their peers.”

>Here’s the full description of the talk:

>“Global gains against game censorship are suddenly at risk from a combination of actions against our industry. With the World Health Organization classifying “gaming disorder” a mental health condition and burgeoning legislation around the world against Loot Boxes, a handful of government officials again wield outsized power over our creative and business decisions. Additionally, Augmented Reality (AR) faces bans in parks, military bases, churches around the world, and a total ban in China. What are developers to do? Join us for a discussion on how we can protect our rights.”

Other urls found in this thread:

who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>The censorship angle is bizarre, but the stance is not particularly surprising. Several European countries, including Belgium and Sweden, are investigating whether loot boxes and other randomised items in-game, which can be bought with real money, constitute gambling.

>The State of Hawaii in the US has already introduced four bills that prohibit the sale of games with loot boxes to anyone under 21 to the State Senate. A few days after, New Hampshire Senator Maggie Hassan called on the industry to take the issue seriously, and explore whether the sale of loot boxes in games is ethical.

>All of this could lead to government oversight of the games industry, something developers and publishers do not want.

>The ESRB yesterday announced that all games that include in-game purchases will be labelled as such going forward, both at retail and digitally. This is nothing more than what you already see on the Android and iOS app stores, and crucially, won’t differentiate between games with limited add-ons and ones with infinite money sinks billed as randomised blind boxes.

>donate to some politicians that don't care about this issue
>they vote in your favor
>lootboxes continue
why are people in the video game industry so dumb? literally every other industry does this already

...

>Grreenberg

>OY VEY HOW CAN WE GET AROUND THEM FINALLY PROTECTING DA CONSUMERS!

I'm glad these jews finally got called out on their anti consumer bullshit. Fuck them. It's not even developers that are harmed by this, you cant even pull that victim bullshit because they get paid while they make the game, there's no free labor unless they willingly sign contracts for it which is on their head and I have zero sympathy for. It's just cocksucker shareholders and board members collectively shitting their pants because they got caught finally.

Yeah fuck those guys. I'm still mad at what they did to Dungeon Keeper and Need for Speed.

You just posted earlier, samequeer

dont let kids gamble Sup Forums its wrong

Forget the kids, microtransactions ruin video games. That's the real crime right there.

>in 2 years, reshape your entire business model so it isn't sustainable unless you rely on predatory tactics that are essentially gambling
>push so hard that people start pushing back
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! YOU'RE CENSORING ME!

>i cant wait for government to have more control over our vidya
>surely this wont backfire

see
This has nothing to do with government control shill. Your control tactic wont ever work. This is about not wanting corporations to fuck us anymore, which they've been doing heavily since 2007 when DLC became popularized.

>SO YOU WANT GOVERNMENT TO FUCK YOU NOW
No, fuck off.

this slippery slope is too slippery, i'm gonna lose control

I mean they have a point but fuck it. Just let it all burn

>i cant wait for the government to make laws
>surely this wont backfire

All of this could have been avoided and you still could have been the same moneygrubbing scumfuck bastards if you just allowed a LITTLE transparency into your fucking lootbox scams with a glimpse into the RNG rates. Labeling games what they factually are is not censorship, its the exact opposite.

Fuck lootboxes, Fuck Dan Greenberg and Fuck the IDGA.

>ESRB
>Government.

>all the worst shills of the gaming industry gathering at one place and time

As long as it ruins the industry, fine by me.

>This is about not wanting corporations to fuck us anymore
>im too dumb to not buy lootboxes

>"You can't stop lootboxes that end up ruining what could have been an alright game with shit that is just there to scam you out of money, that's fucking censorship!"
>t. people who demand censorship for games with females in bathing suits because "It's going to turn people into rapists!"
This is just retarded, any self respecting game designer would know that lootboxes end up screwing up games. Just look at all the discussion about nu-battlefront II and Destiny II, literally no one ever talks about the actual game and can only talk about how the publisher jewed the fuck out of those games. I seriously hope another video game crash happens.
Yeah, I know I already said the same exact thing, but this shit still applies. I have no god damn sympathy for these people, they had all the opportunity to change, fix their shit and self regulate, they had everyone yell at them, instead they double down, ruin there shit not only to the point where literally everyone hates their work and only sees their work as a scam, but have actual fucking governments yell at them for this shit, and instead of learning, instead of actually recognizing that they fucked up and how they can improve, they just double down and damage control about it. Fuck these people, they reap what they sew, and they deserve to get bankrupt, infact I really wouldn't mind if another crash happens because of this shit.

>I'm still mad at what they did to Dungeon Keeper
Anything that makes EA even so much as squirm is alright with me.

While loot boxes are cancer and need to be steped back I dont like the idea of goverment blocking them as im sure it will do nothing but cause even sneakier tactics from devs and hurt consumers. Why cant lootboxes at worst be sorta like rainbow six? You can buy them with in game currency or you can just buy the cosmetic straight out and no trading or selling skins. And everything can be gotten within game renwown.

>says the shill

>the absolute lack-of-a-state of lolbertarians

>WE NEED TO EARN MONEY FROM INVISIBLE ASSETS GUISE!!!!!!

Their endgame is shit like Battlefront 2, so fuck 'em. They pushed too far.

>i bought a bad game because im a retard
>lets change all the laws

>IT'S ONLY THE PUBLISHERS, DEVS ARE BASED
where are these cunts now?

I don't suppose we have any cases of terminal autism around there. Someone who won't be missed when it's done. It's how they'd want it.

>I seriously hope another video game crash happens.
I want this too.
How likely is it to happen?

I've come up with a solution: don't charge real money for rewards based on luck. There, problem solved!

If they're gonna treat everyone like retards then yeah fuck 'em. Why not make a law against things like this? Because a hypothetical situation scares you?

What's more likely to happen is they'll pass some regulation that does the absolute bare minimum to protect specifically children from lootboxes like a "confirm you age here" prompt for games with lootboxes (or even more likely: the industry will propose a self-governed solution like this themselves) and they'll leave it at that. That's why framing this all around "oy vey think of the exploited children!" is dumb because the "solution" will be tailored FOR the children when really all along it was us adults who are tired of lootbox shit in our vidya and want to stop getting jewed, which will continue on unimpeded.

>gaming disorder
Huh
who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/

>They're still pushing for loot box shit

How about just dropping it?

if they gonna treat everyone like retards, that means only intelligent people are negatively affected. i can see why this wont worry you, but it does me

>B-but my artistic expression! Don't you love the experience of loot boxes? Everyone loves buying art, only to get a half assed product and having to pay more to maybe get another piece of it, that really adds to the experience don't it?

The real reason that they don't want lootbox drop rates shown is because in many cases, they aren't even static rates, instead changing based on their "points of frustration" and similar kinds of bullshit. It would completely fuck the model

Probably would happen if devs and publishers go full force into loot box shit despite having people and entire governments yell at them, and then governments clamp down really hard on their shit, many mid range devs who fell for this shit would be crippled real fucking hard, while the big name devs would have no choice but to restructure or face consequences

>For gaming disorder to be diagnosed, the behaviour pattern must be of sufficient severity to result in significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning and would normally have been evident for at least 12 months.
So basically if you go full NEET for a year you might have a problem. Furthermore:

>Studies suggest that gaming disorder affects only a small proportion of people who engage in digital- or video-gaming activities. However, people who partake in gaming should be alert to the amount of time they spend on gaming activities, particularly when it is to the exclusion of other daily activities, as well as to any changes in their physical or psychological health and social functioning that could be attributed to their pattern of gaming behaviour.

(((anti censorship)))

where were these fucks when Anita was around? Why aren't they defending Kingdom Come? But now that their loot boxes are attacked all the sudden its "oh vey Goyim, you can't censor our art"

Loot boxes wouldn't be so bad if you could see the drop rates and could buy each skin or whatever is dropping without grinding for 30 hours or with cash. Paid skins are A-Ok in my book as long as they don't affect stats.

>Its censorship to equate lootboxes to gambling
- game devs

Players think loot boxes are gambling
Politicians think loot boxes are gambling
Game Devs dont want government and players think and say loot boxes are gambling

Who is censoring censoring whom?

I had to reread that about 4 times before I realized it wasn't about how to not make lootboxes, but how to continue loot boxes despite that people are actually starting to push back on the issue.

>Greenberg
How do we make Sup Forums stop being right lads?

id have no problem with lootboxes if they didnt do it half the time just to attract hordes of players from 3rd world countries who they cant contain in their own servers

but they do, so developers can get fucked for all i care

Why does it worry you then? If the current state of the industry doesn't worry you, then why does the end of their abuse?

What do they need to defend Kingdom Come from? The game hasn't been censored by anyone and it is selling extremely well. Does it need to be defended from some idiots on tumblr/twitter/reddit that can do nothing to the game other than complain about it?

Exactly, where were they when people were up in arms about TV Y-7 level shit suddenly being branded as "2 lewd" and getting censored? Now lootboxes are getting the hammer and they act as if they're "important to the experience"? Fuck you, do you even read the communities for games like Battlefront II and Destiny II? All people talk about is how much of shitty shills the publishers and devs are with their business practices, I don't even know anything about the actual gameplay of these games because all people ever talk about is horrible shill shit. I know Battlefront II would just be "It's just battlefield but with star wars", but that would be much preferable to the fucking mess it is now.

>if they gonna treat everyone like retards, that means only intelligent people are negatively affected

maybe if lootboxes werent a thing they might have tried to actually make the game good, you know?

instead we have battlefront 2: call of duty lootbox edition

We get the kind of corporate policies we deserve. Unfortunately, the majority do not normally care about and actively support "freemium" games. They are wildly successful and have so bare minimum effort. Why wouldn't corporations think they could get away with stashing more and more content behind paywalls?
Until the mass majority of people get their head out of their ass and stop supporting these systems, there will always be incentive to nickle and dime. As a bonus, stockholders know absolute dick and hear the large amount of sales from said games and try to jam it into everything.

Can we sue these hores shit game companys that exploit retarded gamers that buy loot boxes and play p2w. WHO says we have evidence so why not sue these shekelbergs.

>the "government control is ALWAYS bad regardless of circumstances or context" retard

Why would I want lootboxes gone? It's because of lootboxes that we can even have free games. Fortnite would be like $50 bucks if they weren't making money from the lootboxes, PUBG is already $30

>"hurr just don't buy it"
>Have never purchased a single piece of DLC since the horse armor debacle started.
>It's now rampant and games I'm actually interested in that have zero fucking reason to have any DLC are being chopped up to sell some.

Fuck you.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN, BAN ALL VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES

yeah you are like those retards in the 90s

The problem is moreso developers like EA pushing the buck with ridiculous shit like Need for Speed and Battlefront 2, not to mention the entire Fifa Ultimate Team racket they have running.

Literally nothing wrong with lootboxes. It is the exact same thing as buying TCG booster packs.

Maybe I guess. It would depend on the rulings but iirc making harmful shit without telling anybody that it's harmful (see: Radium Girls) is a recipe for getting sued.
But I don't think we're at that point just yet.

governament should not have a say on this shit
if people are dumb enough to buy that shit, they deserve to be shitted on

games already have age restrictions n shit

kids should not be playing games like COD and other violent shooters anyway.

TCG's are physical items with real-world value that can be individually sold, traded, and purchased.

you think the government is gonna ban DLC? how dumb are you?

No, shut the fuck up you piece of shit. There have been plenty of free games that have managed to not only survive, but THRIVE, without lootboxes.
God knows I hate league of legends, but they managed to sustain their entire business AND expand it internationally with a completely free game and without using lootboxes.
They have introduced a sort-of-lootbox system, but that was only very recently and even then they still sell all the cosmetics WITHOUT having to use the lootboxes, they are just a MUCH cheaper, but random, alternative and they are extremely easy to get.
I don't mind using cosmetics as microtransaction. I don't. Let people with money waste it however they want, who gives a shit, but sell the people what they want to pay for instead of making them pay for A CHANCE of getting what they want. Or at the very least make it clear how UNLIKELY it is for them to get it by showing the droprates.
Overwatch claims they need to sell lootboxes at such a huge price to maintain their ability to produce free content despite the fact that their game is 40 dollars already.
League has been making free content for 7 years with a free game and without relying on lootboxes, so explain that.
Go suck corporation dick elsewhere you fucking shill.

only stupid people buy EA games games

when did i say its alwasy bad? we are only talking about videogames here... learn to read, dummy.

Someone has to stop the brain dead wales with no self control from giving the greedy jews money.

And what about the people who DON'T buy into it, but get shit on anyways because people that do buy into it?

woosh

Because making laws shouldn't be the default position.

you don't have to buy their games you know
stop sucking western cock and buy a nice switch no lootboxes in mario oddessy

>Don’t buy modern games with loot boxes
>enjoy old vidya because it’s actually good and fun
Feels good man

Stop buying Western AAA games

>Violent video games literally don't harm anyone who play them, and numerous studies have proven that they don't make you violent
>Gambling actually has ruined many peoples' lives and is a horrible addiction, and now publishers are forcing gambling shit into vidya that people end up spending a ton on but get nothing but worthless garbage in return, some of those are under 21 and probably aren't exactly too far from becoming those bums who spend recycling money on lottery tickets at the local gas station
Sure EA

>(((Greenberg)))

Sup Forums is always right

fuck em, they are stupid enough to KEEP buying EA games, they DESERVE to be milked until there is only dust left

like i said, only stupid people buy EA / blizzard/ activision games

the good companies are not doing this shit

there are no lootboxes in nintendo games
there are not looboxes in first party sony games
there are not lootboxes in Dragon ball figherZ
there are no lootboxes in kingdom come

fuck even david cage games dont have lootboxes.

you're the one who brought up DLC, not my fault you cant even argue your own point

>Force developers and publishers to publish rates for rarities and the content itself under the banner/gacha/lootbox
>Set a spending cap of $30-50 a month for accounts below the age of 18, $75-100 for 18-21 and uncapped for 21 and over if applicable
>Don't fucking attempt Complete Gacha outside Japan
an attempt was made

>Greenberg
of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these: "Sup Forums was right again"

GDC is a blight on the industry.

why not outlaw steak because some retards will choke on them?

Just wait until the asian gacha system bleeds into their console/PC games.

>the good companies are not doing this shit
You think they won't? You think that good companies won't go where the money is? You think this hasn't happened before with DLC, Day-one DLC, on disc DLC, content being cut for DLC?

This, for something cool like ArcSys demonstrating how the graphics for GGXrd were made you have twenty other presentations of complete bullshit

It wasn't. Games companies didn't listen when they got yelled at by their communities, and now their use of microtrasactions has gotten so egregious that even the general public wants them gone.
They brought this on themselves.

why not outlaw butter knives cause some guy was stabed years ago
oh wait...

This.
Holy shit it feels great.
I missed out on so much stuff and I can now experience most of it on a low end-pc. Got a hacked "new"3ds on top of it and mostly emulate stuff on it, because it's so convenient.

yeah i think they wont. even BETHESDA and SQUARE ENIX are not doing this shit.

fucking BETHESDA

let that sink in.

>every school shooter was a avid gamer, even sadam hassem was a gamet
>guys its just a coincidence!

Is this really what people want? More chinky gatcha shit in home console/PC games? Because that seems like where we're headed with all this loot box faggotry.

>tfw not a westacuck
Glad I don't have to worry about this nonsense.

I'm unironically starting to believe that pol is actually right

I mean, they have to be at this point. There's that many typing fingers and autistic neets digging shit up and finding shit constantly cross checking with other neets and their database of neet info that they just fucking have to be at this point

Just like how Sup Forums is right about videogames, just like lit is fucking right about books, just like tv is right about film, etc etc

The only board I can think of where they're factually wrong is Sup Forums, and it's because of the method of which they access information and how it relates to music (they use computers so therefore all their music is horribly bleep skewed trash)

I'm unironically now looking up holocaust denial docos right this second because I've fucking had enough. I've seen too many fuckin "bergs" in only media and none in real life that it's starting to fucking bother me.

>every single murderer in the world drank water
>there are pictures and evidence that HITLER drank water

>coincidence?
>i let you decide

Didn't they try mobile game stamina bullshit with Jojo ASB and it backfired completely?

They aren't "essentially" gambling, they are gambling. This entire turn towards microtransactions was always going to be a dead end.

It already did with XC2. Luckily all of it was part of the game itself.

The only thing stopping them is the heat that EA has been getting for Battlefront 2. If that cools over, you can beat your twelve-year-old ass that they'll jump on the money wave and ride the whales into the sunset.
Remember what happened to Capcom? Of course you don't.

>Greenberg

There are ways other than legislation. It's too bad that people jump towards legislation automatically to fix a problem.

I agree. I don't see how that's relevant here since people have been making a stink about dlc and loot boxes for ages. We've reached the legislative option entirely legitimately.