I really liked the puzzles themselves, but the shrine aesthetic got really boring after a while

I really liked the puzzles themselves, but the shrine aesthetic got really boring after a while.

Imagine if they combined like 10 shrines, maybe by the power used and created a visual theme for each of them (forest temple etc.) We would have the same puzzles but in a much more interesting environment.

Imagine if Legend of Zelda was developed by a team with a creative spark

But then there would be literally nothing to find in the open world other than rocks to roll and pieces of ice to melt

imagine if videogames were good

I completely agree with the aesthetic argument, but shrines fit their functional purpose perfectly well as-is. Combining them would be unnecessary and make the landscape emptier.

I think "Wow! Did you find Jungle Temple. It was so cool" would be worth it, when the opposite is: "Did you find Haal Zugugu shrine?" "Which one was that again?"

So that's an excuse to deconstruct the more traditional dungeons and drop them piecemeal all over the overworld? Because otherwise there would be nothing to do? Fuck this game and fuck Japanese people

Concentrating shrines into one entrance like that doesn't mesh well with the game's design of rewarding exploration with consistent, small, but interesting and useful rewards, and makes the game worse by leaving a comparable chunk of the game world now with that many fewer shrines. Better for BotW to take the theme and spread it out over a particular area.

And your example doesn't make much sense. People remember interesting and unique challenges - don't act like all the shrines are forgettable just because they all look similar. "Remember that island where you lose all your shit?" "Remember that marble puzzle one where you have to use the gyro controls?"

Again, the shrines were good. However dungeons are 10 times better. Of course removing shrines would affect the flow of the game, but the map would be designed around dungeons.

This is all an opinion but I think finding an epic dungeon is much more rewarding than finding 10 shrines. Finding a shrine feels mundane because they're everywhere

>that shrine with the optional puzzle of hitting a ball into a hole
>impossible to do unless you do something like 6 hammer hits and 3 sword hits
>they only give you heavy weapons in there

I really wish that there were four times less shrines but each one of them had an actually unique and distinct feeling to it.
This one was really fucking fun for example.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

Are you looking to have a discussion or did you just want to complain that Breath of the Wild wasn't Twilight Princess 2? You haven't really said anything other than "that's my opinion."

What we're having IS a discussion. People telling other people what they think. We don't have to agree for it to be a discussion. I can't give you objective proof that my way would be the best. All you can do is tell your opinion

Nah the only think I would change is the number of combat shrines. Those were legitimately shit. But the shrines were a pretty cool reward exploring. The divine beasts are underrated. If the game had maybe 3 proper thremed dungeons BotW would be the greatest game ever made ever. As it stands its just the game of the generation.

>it's a test of strength shrine
>it's a shrine that just gives it to you with no puzzles or obstacles because finding or unlocking it was the "real challenge"
I wish there were fewer of these.

Dude you're going to be eaten alive here. What the fucks your problem, being all polite and shit. Don't you know these are the cold hard streets of Sup Forums, where basic human civility is analogous to being a freaking queer?

Also the shrines suck. Same textures, same music, same "baby's first puzzle game" difficulty.

I think the number of combat shrines is fine, but they should have put in different enemies or more unique arenas.

I've been doing pretty fine for the last 8 years. People don't react well to common sense but I don't mind

Nobody asked for "objective proof", you were just asked to make better arguments than "well that's just, like, my opinion, man." You're perfectly entitled to whatever your opinion is but if you can't really explain it at all there's not much discussion to be had.

>8 years
I'm leaving this site and never coming back again. It's such a waste of time I don't know why I just come here for seemingly no reason. I never leave here with a positive interaction. It's always assholes shitting on everyone and everything.

Good luck, mate.

>Fuck Japanese people.

I literally said the same thing to myself yesterday when I was playing Dark Cloud - Only those faggot japs would think adding a thirst meter and weapon degradation is a good idea, but NOPE these two games had it 17 years apart.

If they this and had at least twice the number of enemy and boss types the game would have been way better.

>So that's an excuse to deconstruct the more traditional dungeons and drop them piecemeal all over the overworld? Because otherwise there would be nothing to do?

I mean, yeah, if you don't put anything in a landscape then exploring that landscape is boring.

But that's not even what shrines are, though. The more traditional dungeon would have you go through some piece of it, find The Item, use The Item to go through the rest, then fight a boss (maybe with The Item). Shrines aren't any piece of this. They're more like the side challenges you might find in a dungeon (the ones with 100 rupees or something), expanded.

There isn't really an argument you can make for dungeons other than the fact that they're much more epic and memorable. You don't seem to think that way, but that doesn't make my explanation unvalid.

That's what basically everyone's been saying after they finished their 50th+ shrine and realized there was much less to this game than there actually is.
It's the Ubisoft design philosophy. Fill the world to the brim with repeated content.

Yeah that'd be nice. Maybe they'll do that in the next game. I really like the mini-dungeon setup.

The Items have been kinda stale for a while. There's always a few that are almost useless outside of the dungeon. This problem is made even more glaring in an open world because the devs can't force them to be useful without gating off part of the world and they sure as hell can't make you use different The Items in dungeons because they can't know what you'll have.

>Fill the world to the brim with repeated content.
But the only repeated content is the visuals and the combat shrines. Every other shrine either has a unique challenge in it or requires completing a unique challenge to gain entry.

I think they could have just used enemy strongholds instead of dungeons. No specific items attached to it. Just some loot and relatively strong enemies. Kind of like the Yiga clan hideout but with other enemies.

I just want more unique landmarks on the overworld. One of the best things in Zelda was finding a cave and exploring it, caves in BOTW are shrine holes. Before you even enter a cave you know what to find.

Same with the rest of the game. Literally every single island off the coasts of Hyrule are all just the surroundings of shrines. Even the most fun part of the game, Eventide Island, results in another shrine.

I wanted more ruins you could enter and find shit in. I was majorly disappointed when I found out the Akkala citadel didn't have an interior. Imagine the weapons/shields/rare items you could have found in there. That place is huge. There's no way there wasn't a bunch of shit in there. I was also disappointed that Zelda doesn't appear until you actually defeat Ganon, and it isn't even made clear WHERE the fuck she was that whole time.

It's pretty ironic for you to say that when this is the 1st botw thread i've seen with actual discussion instead of consolewar shitposting

Also the forgotten temple was shit, too. That place was fucking huge, but it was literally a giant empty room with a bunch of guardians in it and a single shrine at the end.

Not him but everytime I enter or make a BotW thread I actually try to initiate discussion. Blame the faggots who look at my posts, ignore them, and instead continue to shitpost.

Yeah, I fucking loved Hyrule Castle so much. Running along the hallways looting shit while dropping bombs to ward off angry moblins was some of the most fun I had with the game, I really wish there was more "architecture" you could explore.

>Are you looking to have a discussion or did you just want to complain that Breath of the Wild wasn't Twilight Princess 2

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, some people think Shrines are boring because they peacemeal you small amounts of gameplay and basically exist to force you to care about the open world.

There was that one shrine that was actually a decent length. I can't remember it very well though.

>make world 3/4 of its current size
>make much heavier and impossible to see through forest region, extremely snowy and heavy mountainous region thats impossible to see through because the peaks are so high and the air is so bleached
>bottom section of the map is an unknown sea with islands you have to find yourself
>litter game with multiple real dungeons, only 4 of which are mandatory and have another 5-8 completely optional but full dungeons
gee

Yeah obviously there are a few people who try to discuss it but the shitposters usually invade the threads

>"Remember that island where you lose all your shit?"

That is literally the exact opposite of shrines though. I remember stuff like Eventide and the wind currents and the ice-cold river and striking the hill with lightning BECAUSE they aren't shrines. They are cool overworld puzzles that lead to a shrine. I cannot remember a single actual shrine outside of vague ideas like "gyro controls" or "magnesis to move blocks".

>Remember that marble puzzle one where you have to use the gyro controls

I remember like at least 5 of those. When you have multiples of the puzzle, they tend to be less memorable.

The main problem I have with the dungeons and shrines is that they feel very "gamey". You travel in a forest when you suddenly see a glowing checkpoint and play a puzzle game. Then back to the natural looking world

Sneaking by the guardians and getting into the place was half the fun because then you felt like a spy or some shit infiltrating a compound. The citadel could have been the same thing but with more weapons and it would have been a better place to find the hylian shield imo.

Honestly this whole "optional content" and "you can do anything in any order" bullshit seems really stupid to me.

I have no idea why someone would want to actively avoid content. And being able to move anywhere has resulted in literally every area having the same enemies at the same power levels, no area you go to is actually dangerous outside of running into a Lynel early-game.

Shrine aesthetics and there being a ton of them was fine. I just wish they felt more like traditional dungeons with none of them being just a single room, more enemies to fight in them, and each test of strength should've been a unique boss fight.

That's called a palate cleanser.

Yeah, one thing I really like about Far Cry 3/4 is that checkpoints you capture will have people living there and guards set up outposts, it makes it feel like it's part of the world and not your personal playground.

I'm really getting bored with this game. Shrines are literally the only real thing you """explore""" the world for. I wish there were more activities.

There are a few decent sidequests to find but that involves MORE open world roaming to find them. Try to do the labyrinths, those are fun.

Maybe. Idk, I'm just tired of open world games. There's too much fucking walking in empty landscapes.

You could have the checkpoints with the same gameplay while feeling like part of the world

I know, I dropped the game after beating Ganon. I tried to go back to it but after doing the major sidequests, all that was left was shrines, korok seeds, and grinding for materials to upgrade armor. and I beat Ganon with half-upgraded armor anyway.

>half upgraded armor
I just fully upgraded the hylian garbs. You end up with an armor rating of 60. Seemed decent enough to me and all you need are bokoblin parts
>mfw sold my 30+ bokoblin guts minutes before I found out you need 45 of them to upgrade all 3 pieces of clothing

Gonna have to agree with this. A lot of the time with Zelda games the tools felt like the equivalent of the monster of the week in a tokusatsu/sentai show. The dungeon you acquire them from is pretty much the only dungeon where usage of the tool is heavily enforced. I mean, I really cannot recall the last Zelda game where the last area and last boss required you to use every item you've collected on your grand adventure. It's almost always a select few from the list.

Hylian was aesthetic as fuck, even when I had better armors I just kept it on anyway.

I used the Knight armor when fighting Ganon because it looked nice with a shield and the Master Sword.

That only shows that the world is too big. They spent so much time on the physics and making a stupidly large world that they ran out of time to make actual content to fill it with. Sequel should focus on making a condensed world that's built around its core content.

It's funny how that's been a problem since as long as I can remember and they have never fixed it. It's been over 30 years and their only solution was to outright remove most of the equipment instead of better implementing it.

>Concentrating shrines into one entrance like that doesn't mesh well with the game's design of rewarding exploration with consistent, small rewards

That's just shitty design to justify the sheer oversized landmass though. A large overworld isn't exactly impressive when everywhere you go you find the same enemies and even the same minibosses. I think the Molduga is the only thing you outright have to search for, everything else you can encounter almost anywhere.

I think they just ended up choosing the lesser evil by going the route of 4 runes. The alternative would have been designing dungeons that HAVE to be done in a certain order because you happened to not have the right tools when you stumble across it. One of the saving graces, which also leads to the downfall, is that the structure of "x tool is heavily used in pretty much only x dungeon" is that it allowed players a freedom in what order to do the dungeons. But the downside of course is the issue I spoke of.

I mean, in theory they could just stick with how tools were handled before but then only make the last area require all the tools, but the foreseeable downside to that is that players will get annoyed at how lengthy the last area is due to it being designed to require all the tools you've collected.

Yeah, it's a lose/ lose situation due to how different BOTW is from the standard design.

I've honestly didn't like the whole "you can do any dungeon" in order thing, it didn't feel like it really add anything to the game while it took away a great deal.

We got 4 incredibly short-dungeons with incredibly similar puzzles and only 2 enemy types to fight in dungeons, one of which dies in 1 shot.

Here's how I would fix shrines
>30 shrines, 10 being puzzle, 10 obstacle course, and 10 combat
>each shrine type has its own aesthetic and music
>shrines are like Eventide Island, they take away your equipment and force you to rely on whatever's inside the shrine (you can go into the menu and restart the shrine at any time if you get stuck), some of them even equip you with what you need automatically
>after beating a shrine once, you can replay it but with an extra challenge (time trial, no damage, stealth-only, etc) that rewards you with a bonus item
>puzzle shrines are lengthy enough to introduce a concept and follow through on it satisfyingly
>obstacle course shrines are focused around traversal, some of them require making use of the physics to the fullest to get through
>combat shrines make use of every single enemy type in the game and have complex layouts and intricate enemy placements
>once you beat a shrine, you can choose between a full heart or stamina container
>each monk has a unique design and dialogue that is either comedic or expands the lore
>shrines can't be teleported to, only towers
>shrine exteriors change based on the shrine type and difficulty so you know what to expect

Yes

>shrines are like Eventide Island, they take away your equipment and force you to rely on whatever's inside the shrine

Fuck the hell no.

Dungeons in Zelda games were always garbage. TP and SS are the most hated games in the series despite their "good" dungeons according to autistic zelda faggots.

I'm glad you're not a developer because your ideas are awful. Kill yourself.

Really? Did you find Fire Talus in snowcaps for example? BotW Shitters.

>D-Did you find this recolor of another enemy? If not your opinion is invalid!

Link's Awakening and Oracle of Seasons had pretty good dungeons. Their final boss dungeons were pretty much nonexistent though..

I think the shrines were perfectly fine the way they are. normally you should do enough other stuff between them to not get bored and I don't see a logical reason why they would look way different from another

I do agree, they were FINE. They could have been much more though

I think that's what they had in mind for the titans.
sort of simmilar approach, but a bit more complex, slightly more content and a bit different design

I think he was implying that you actually can't find a Fire Talus in a snowy region, contrary to the
>everything else you can encounter almost anywhere
in the post he quoted.
But I might be wrong. Sure as hell didn't find a Fire Talus on a snowy mountain, though.

I loved the shrines. Not all of them were great but a majority were fun to find and uncover, particularly the ones with quests tied to them, and the puzzles were mostly simple sure but they used the runes and physics in ways you may not get to or think to in the overworld, which was nice.
>Mfw those bagpipes

No, I found a Frost Talus. Completely different and unique enemy. When I was at Death Mountian I found the also unique Igneo Talus, also a unique enemy. And when I was central Hyrule I found a Stone Talus.

Just look at all these unique enemies you find! Definitely not recolours with slightly different movesets!

>normally you should do enough other stuff between them to not get bored

Like what? Fight another bokoblin camp? Collect apples?

Whatever he meant, the fact that you find fire talus in the mountains does not make the point invalid.
>everything else you can encounter almost everywhere
You can still find taluses everywhere.

Come someone explain how you advance in the game if there are no temples?

I don't understand. Are some shrines important in the story?

>you can't find a Fire enemy in the snow area, look at the wide variety of enemies BOTW has!

Too bad it's the fucking same enemy with a different colour.

I'm saying you don't normally run across them every 5 minutes so you pretty much never do multiple in a row

*can't find

You can go to the final boss and beat him within an hour.
The things you get in shrines are robs, four of which give you a heart container or 1/5th of a stamina wheel.
You don't collect new items like hookshots or whatever, you get all your essential abilities in the tutorial area in the beginning instead.

I wish the shrines were closeby, it would make the open world shit less boring since the shrines make up most of "what is interesting to find when exploring"

Only the 3 rune shrines are required to advance and none are important to the story. The others are just paths to generic orbs you trade in for heart containers and stamina bar extensions. The game does have temples in the divine beasts, but they're short. Most of the shrines are micro temples.

Oh wow, okay. That is very open ended. Don't know how I'd feel about that. I'll have to play one day

No, the Fire Talus in the the volcano while the Ice Talus is in the snowcaps while the Stone Talus is in the mountains. What variety.

I generallly love breath of the wild but enemy variety is an objective issue. all the recolouring makes me think of snes/n64 games

There is very little "main game", there is the tutorial, 4 mini-dungeons and a stealth segment, and then the final dungeon which is by far the only thing in the game the devs put effort into.

What exactly is there to do after beating Ganon? I normally enjoy 100%-ing Zelda games but I'm sick of shrines, korok seeds and tedious fetch quests.

Nothing.

Besides shrines, korok seeds and fetch quests, the only thing to do is getting all Kilton medals.
I believe they actually only unlock after beating Ganon, too. So they're the closest to post-game BotW has.
I think you need to kill all Talus, Molduga and Hinox respectively for each one.

There is literally nothing wrong with BotW

Yeah, 10 hours of hunting for stuff to do and all I have are more fetch quests on my quest list.

Well, that sounds a lot more fun than hunting koroks and shrines, I'll do that then.

If that turns out to not bore you, you could do all Lynels, though I believe there is no medal for it.

Yeah, I just might do that. I enjoy the combat, it's the overworld I have a problem with. I want to trade in shrines, koroks and fetch quests for some temples and caves, or even a large ruin. The only caves I have found are holes in the wall with shrines in them.

how'd it get so much praise then

"muh open world". It has solid mechanics, it just has very little content outside of the open world. If you like walking around for hours upon hours with nothing to actually do, you will love the game.

That sucks, seems like they have the basics for a better game down the line if they choose to

It seems like they just put so much time into crafting the world itself, there was little time for the meat that makes other Zelda games what they are.
Or it is deliberate because muh mobile gaming, which would be a shame. Taking 60 shrines and joining ten of them in a sensible way into a longer dungeon, with enemies thrown in, would be so great with a meaningful reward at the end.
Leave the other 60 as they are.

>It seems like they just put so much time into crafting the world itself

But that's the thing, outside the shrines there is nothing interesting to find outside a few specific locations.