Are MOBA's losing their playerbase...

Are MOBA's losing their playerbase? Seems like DOTA and LoL both are in continuing decline because players are not playing them as much as they used to. Are the new battle royale games reason for this or what?

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yes

end of thread

It could be because of battle royale games, but it could also be because League has become more shit over time.

Because mobas are shit and people are finally waking up.

I thought current mobas are having dumb changes made to them that usually fix nothing and add more problems are making playerbases drop.

I stipped LoL because of the lack of content. Yeah we constantly get new champs but other than that and frequent rebalancing there's not much else. Hell even when playing a new champ it just feels like youre doing the same thing cus forced metas. I'd like to see a new 5v5 rank map or mode.

All games lose players over time, especially so if new content isn't added to keep players coming back. No new maps or game modes means that when players quit DOTA or LoL there's never any reason to return.

steamcharts.com/app/570

Yeah, there is a clear trend of declining playerbase you can see here. It's a shame that LoL doesn't tell it's number but you can clearly see it.

I don't think new content is necessarily worth it in terms of modes/maps because League does game modes and only a small fraction of people play them besides ARAM. I think it's simply because no one is really rewarded for playing long aside from owning everyone/everything.

If anything I'm surprised that dota, a 15 years old game, still have that many players.

Yeah you can see clear trend here. Will dota2 survive it's death spiral?

>top lane
>bottom lane
the fuck is this shit? how does such a meta emerge from a map with symmetrical lanes? I'm not even meming, just a long time Dota player who fell in love with the game's original "safelane/offlane" duality and the balance and gameplay it brings. how the fuck do LoL and other shittier, inferior games' metas even work?

Here is the chart.

you always have a jungler

Leagues game modes come more like minigames with the actual game being summoner rift hence why few people play it aside from ARAM. They also offer very little reward. Riot could add new 5v5 rank maps but just refuse to do it and would rather keep reworking summoner rift

unsurprisingly, the former fotm genre is being replaced by the current fotm genre.

right and that's homosexual for its own reasons, but how does this make "top" and "bot" heroes be a thing? what happens when a coordinated team swaps the two lanes? wouldn't it at least throw off your opponents?

Dota's lanes are so much more flexible; you can have a trilane, dual lanes, an offensive tri, a safelane support and a jungler or roamer, two roaming supports... there's so many options, and most of them are even pretty viable, at least at my average-ass mmr!

is playing LoL literally just going through the same exact autistic motions every time? how is that fun?

What happened between october 2015 - february 2016?

LoL definitely went apeshit with the amount of
"new mechanics" they wanted to put in. Both myself and friends who played lol for years were both confused and turned off by the plant mechanics. The mastery rework killed all my friends interests afaik

>Hell even when playing a new champ it just feels like youre doing the same thing cus forced metas.
not even (solely) because of forced meta, LoL champs literally have the same spell kit. once in a blue moon they make something that deviates from standard.

yes MOBAs are dead, no one plays them anymore

>what happens when a coordinated team swaps the two lanes?
They get fined I guess.

This could've been averted if they actually committed to removing flash from the meta like they said ages ago.

it does seem like they added a ton of needless complexity to try and make their game seem deeper and more skillfull. all it did was give people headaches.

RTS was huge
MOBAs came along and reduced them to a reasonable playerbase
Battle Royal comes along and reduces them to a reasonable playerbase

dota isnt dying primarily because of BR games etc, its dying beacuse of dota fatigue

they never banned people, they never punish people, etc, the people in dota have the worst attitudes and you can do anything and ruin a game and not be punished

also 2 new heroes in the 6 years dota 2 has existed...they honestly just havent tried hard enough with the game

omg that's right I forgot, I had heard about that in the past. wtf why is that a thing? why is using game mechanics built into the game, not even in an exploitative manner, "against the rules" of that retarded game's tournaments for babies? I'm not even a huge pro Dota viewer or anything but that kind of outside-the-box thinking is REWARDED there!

I mean don't get me wrong I've played ARAM with a girl I know who plays LoL and it was kind of fun in a "I don't know what I'm doing" kind of way, but I just don't understand the appeal of the game

>they never banned people, they never punish people, etc, the people in dota have the worst attitudes and you can do anything and ruin a game and not be punished
blatantly false, and now six-month bans are a thing, and you can only play ranked with a phone number connected to your account

>also 2 new heroes in the 6 years dota 2 has existed
try 14 new heroes since the game came out of beta you lying sack of shit

14 new ports.

Here is the chart for monthly peak player amount for DOTA2. Seems like they are soon at 2013 levels.

>mobas are dying because their community is le toxic
no, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. gaming communities have had raging autists since forever. look at fighting games, their communities thrive despite the endless salt.

The meta has become the bible at this point and its not riot's fault. The players who the one who begged riot for champs to be built into strict rolls and to ban people who do anything out of the ordinary.

>not riot's fault

>game developer bans player for randoming

I haven't ever played pubg and fortnite. Valve killed Dota by adding talent trees and LoL was doomed to fail because the free to play model sucks the life out of all games.

added to DotA while Dota 2 was still in beta:
>Tusk
>Phoenix
>Rubick
>Timbersaw
>Skywrath

added to DotA after Dota 2 was released from beta:
>Ember Spirit
>Legion Commander
>Winter Wyvern
>Arc Warden
>Earth Spirit
>Oracle

exclusive to Dota 2, added since release from beta and after all aforementioned heroes:
>Monkey King
>Pangolier
>Dark Willow

just because Dota doesn't 100% (tho still a bit) copy LoL's model of constantly shitting out new heroes that're buffed to all fuck, only to nerf them after everyone pays real money for them, doesn't mean it's an inferior product. (they totally did this to Monkey King tho)

league's "meta" is to run a solo top laner, dual bot laners, solo mid laner and a jungler. yes, it does get boring because most of the characters have a specific role and most of them can't play a different role. i really miss playing roaming supports in dota.

Becuase the community wanted them to and still does. Hell one of the top singed mains in the game gets warnings and was banned once just because he plays singed support even though hes good at it. Though his team mates reported him anyway cus le troll

nobody gets 6 month banned and game ruiners are still in every single game

hooray! they did something 7 years after alpha. great job valve. 5 years too late

there have only been 2 new heroes in dota 2

actually its 100% of it thats why dota is dead in america, because it forced us to play with SA for years and it killed the game.

>gaming communities have had raging autists since forever.

no, not really. I have actually been in gaming communities online since their very inception and no game had a community ever even remotely resembling dota

people in dota will decide 3 seconds into a 45 minute game that they are going to ruin the game and nothing will change their mind because they want to feel the power of ruining it. Nobody has ever acted like that in a single video game I have ever played before so don't you dare try to pretend it's normal for people to be this way

I know who they added, but only 3 of them are actually new.

Seems like cs:go has much more stabile playerbase.

Maybe they should try some new maps.
If they got this much playtime out of one design they could come up with something else.

if you want a good roaming support time reinstall and pick Treant. or play Turbo and pick Pugna (optionally building Dagon for optimal lulz). good times to be had

The idea I believe they should have added to LoL is seasons. But not just reverting your rank every once in awhile but seasons where certain classes are enabled/disabled for the entire season. Mainly because I believe there are way too many champions and it creates useless hero syndrome when you are picking from so many. I'd love to see older heroes receive focus rather than pimping out new ones all the time.

>tfw have only played dota imba 10v10 for the last 6 months

Heroes and items are balanced with one map in game tho.

Because it's a literal growing meme with the community, eventually backed by Riot with game mechanics and promotional material. Before I quit playing, I played a Morde/Soraka bot with a buddy and had a 90% winrate, yet people still bitched and moaned about it because it wasn't the meta and they would even try to throw games intentionally out of rage.

>MOBAs came along and reduced them to a reasonable playerbase
RTS is a dead genre, there hasn't been a great RTS game in over 5years....

alternatively the heroes could be designed to be actually distinct from each other and each have their own niche to fill instead of just pumping out heroes for retards to spend money on.

there's only a handful of Dota heroes who actually overlap in even a remotely a meaningful way, and with the advent of talents they've become even more distinct

Idk about enabling and disabling certain chamos but yeah alot of people agree that way too many of the champions just fall off relevancy. You got 140 champs in lol but only like 30 or so are viable at a time. i barely ever see people like skarner or aurelion sol

>reason for this or what?
dota released 7.0 and killed the game

I mean I'll be the first to say that Dota is a pretty autistic game but that sounds like... advanced autism

>TI7

>A total of 107 heroes were picked throughout the tournament — 95.5% of the hero pool. The most popular pick, Earthshaker, appeared in less than half of the games, with a pick rate of 36.98%. For comparison, the most picked hero of TI6, Mirana, was picked in 51% of the games, while Lina was picked in 61% of the games in TI5. This signifies how the game now supports more viable strategies than ever. The trends towards a more diverse meta is definitely there.

>No hero had a contest rate of over 81%, except for Night Stalker, who was featured as either pick or ban in 81% of the games. When actually played, his win rate is not too impressive: 49% across 51 games. Perhaps the hero is not inherently overpowered, but rather is extremely annoying to play against, with vision being incredibly important in the professional matches. He was also the most popular ban, further supporting this idea.

>Tiny, Lion, Bane, Wraith King and Spectre remained unpicked, with the first two deemed worthy of a ban. It doesn’t mean that the heroes are inherently underpowered. In fact, some global changes or the changes to some faster-paced heroes could very well bring them back into the meta.

imagine actually employing game designers at your video game company

Not him but it really is. There are games when people play things off meta and even if the game was lost and it actually wasn't that person's fault you'd have autists saying the game was lost because taric (support tank) went top or whatever even though taric may have taken a tower and went 4/2/1 in score or something

so beautiful to see

so do LoLfags who learn to hate this autism just quit the genre in disgust, instead of nutting up and migrating over to the superior, original moba? I just don't understand. if I was way into a game and became increasingly disillusioned with its designers and playerbase over time, and there was this other game that was also free that I could devote my autism to, I feel like I would do so in a heartbeat.

t. riot shill

Dawngate was honestly big partly because of this.

I'm the dotafag who's posting here and I thought Dawngate was awesome as heck for what it was. absolute shame what happened to it

>peaked literally right as I stopped playing

Took 50 posts for this?

Yeah. It was a breath of fresh air but technically so were League and Dota. For what Waystone wanted to do, they would've gone the league route probably after a few years.

>what happens when a coordinated team swaps the two lanes? wouldn't it at least throw off your opponents?
Top and mid tower have a buff that makes them take less damage until 5 minutes in and the first tower destroyed gives additional gold to whichever team gets it. On top of that, Dragon spawns at bot which gives a permanent buff and spawns much earlier than Rift Herald.

Until EA flipped because it wasnt the next LoL

>dec 2016
>lrelease a ginormous patch to revamp the game and attract new players
>only a few thousand of cucks add up while they lose more and more players
Valve, as always, transforms in shit everything it touches

According to Steamcharts, DotA 2 lost like 300k players in just a year. 700k concurrent players is still something all devs would kill for though. 7.00 was a shot in the foot with a tank gun though, let's see how they'll recover

I believe LoL is simply too big to fail at this point. Sure, people are pissed at Riot's policy and the ultra-rigid and shit meta where like a quarter of the cast is pick-or banworthy before something changes and another quarter of the cast takes the spotlight, but it always was like this after E-Sports became a thing. They'll still all keep playing.

Without Valve Dota 2 wouldn't exist retard, go play lol if you don't like it

People like playing games with friends. It just so happens PUBG and Fortnite are only playable because of friends. So people just moved to those games instead.

Even OW is dying.

The only Aurelion Sol players I see are the one-tricks. And they are so fucking gay to play against.

No need. It seems players are already doing that. Enjoy eating excrement.

They need to innovate or the genre is dead.

you forgot Chaak

the most innovative moba is also the one on life support user. western quarterfinals today and it only managed to break 20k views on twitch

EA would've ruined it later down the line anyway.

They aren't exactly recovering:

LoL was just a normie meme game like CoD and pubg, they'll start swarming to the next normie meme game next year and we'll have an over-saturated market of that type of game until they get bored of that too

>most innovative
which one

>Most innovate moba
THat's not deadgate

>deadgate
deadgame

Can you imagine playing this same fucking map over and over for the past 10 years? Esports fans are so boring.

7.0 patch

>I only play games that are popular

I want to fuck her face

The 7.00 update was basically the end of the longest 'era' of Dota. Dota updates are usually huge and completely game changing but 7.00 was really alien from what Dota was like to play beforehand.

A lot of the 'old guard' of Dota started losing interest and stopped playing. On top of that Dota hasn't gotten a lot of popular attention after TI6 and TI7 so new players aren't filling in the spots the older players left.

They're losing players because not godo enough lootboxes. In Dota 2 you barely get any item drops and they havent released a compendium in I dont know how long.

>cs go pelaaja kaavio.png

>only play League bc friends play it
>burnt out on mmos and monhun
What do I do, Sup Forums

There needs to be another contender that shakes up the competition. Too many of them copy DOTA/LoL without much thought into how to change it. HoN and HoTS had the right ideas but the execution of the latter is left to be desired. The former is dead, which is sad.

Kill your family

I'm saving that for my final option
Any other suggestions before that?

A new rank map or mode would be opening a can of worms balance wise.
You just know there's gonna be that one champ who has a kit perfectly suited to the new terrain, (like old Warwick in the new jungle). And that means trying to balance 100+ characters for multiple contexts, and then the seams come apart as people realize just how rigid and inflexible assfaggot game mechanics are.

>too many of them copy lol/dota
>hon had right ideas
hon was litearlly dota copypaste right from the beginning until icefraud got a better deal

yeah but between october 2015 - february 2016 the player base is growing hugely.

Dota was never "good," so to speak. It was great fun at times (especially allstars) but it's always been a half-baked mod at heart, it was never meant to be an esport and it shows.

I know a lot of people complained about memeback, but honestly 7.00 swung it too far in the other direction. Now it feels like only the first 20 minutes of the game has any importance, after that momentum usually carries the winning team to victory.

Ganking and early team fights have gotten to be so important that the laning phase breaks down earlier than ever, hitting a lot of heroes who excel at picking off separated players and heroes who have slow early games but strong lategames because they require so much space to get up to speed for little benefit after talents became a thing. The biggest problem with all these change from a pleb perspective is that they cause shutouts more often than anything pre-7.00, making a majority of games at the sub-5k brackets completely one sided. The changes might make DotA a better game to spectate at the higher brackets, but the average player is just going to get frustrated faster than ever.

Early DOTA may not be balanced but by god some of the shit is hilarious
>Old Invoker
>GoD
>Dark Terminator
>Gambler
>Riki with Death Ward that doesn't break invis.

What does a game need to be "esports ready"? Dota has the best spectator tools on the planet and games like PUBG are considered esportz.

>What does a game need to be "esports ready"
having all major bugs ironed out is a good start

All a game needs is large dedicated group of players that want to compete against each other.

Like what?