Suikoden

Why all the hate for this game? I think it's the best in the series outside the first 2. Keep in mind that saying the dub is shit is not a legitimate complaint.

Also general Suikoden discussion I guess.

ithasnothingtodowiththeoriginal
itfeelslikeaveryblandanime
thepacingsucksalot
themaincharacterspeakveryfastandsoundslikeafuckingidiot

youllneverknowunlessyoutry

I've never played it but I've heard the horror stories. What does it even do differently to the main series?

Its a "non canon, alternate dimension" game in a series which set itself apart as being a continuing canon where each game adds to the last. But this game isn't really to blame for killing that. Suikoden IV and V already did that by making pointless prequels and killing the save state transfer feature. Also completely lacking any themes or feeling of a Suikoden game aside from tons of characters and runes.

I just want Suikoden VI.....

I just want Suikoden VII.....

First we need a Suikoden IV and V.

>but those games did get made!
They barely can be considered Suikoden games aside from the use of the name and runes. If they didn't have the Suikoden name attached, people would have considered them to be just another generic self enclosed JRPG.

Suikoden V was good. IV was pretty lackluster, though. V was better than III.

Main writer left after 3 IIRC, that's why the games don't continue the original plotline anymore.

The VAs chill out after a while

Honestly the plot/characters were good, the battle system was boring and enemies started becoming damage sponges about halfway through so I quit

>V was better than III.
In what way? Pacing in both III and V were bad. Battles in V were as slow as molasses and it was missing features both II and III had. The characters and story in Suikoden III were better. I guess you can say the graphics in Suikoden V were better, but even then I found the rotoscope style cutscenes fucking jarring. Voice acting n Suikoden V was unnecessary and hurt the game. I don't really see how Suikoden V was better myself. And of course, some of the worst loading times in video game history.

Both Suikoden III and V would have done better to just use the 2D engine of Suikoden II. Then they could have cut down production costs and spent more time on the characters/story/flow.

Man suikoden V loaded everything so slow on my ps2, i fucking feared moving through areas cause the load times were soooooo bbbbbbbad

what hate? i didn't even knew that this game existed, and i think people hate more the ps2 game.

I preferred the characters, story and ost of V.

Yes, I know. And he was the first person to be very vocal about blaming Konami for him leaving. Wish someone could buy the series and let him fix it. It would probably work better as an anime series than a game.

2 > 1 = 5 > 3 > 4

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The ugly thing about Suikoden is that they feel you need that opening act betrayal to have the political intrigue feel, but they all fucking have it so there's no gutpunch like with Jowy or your dad killing your friend and sending you on the run.

Suikoden III didn't do that. The 'gut punch' was one of the main characters killing another of the main characters best friends. Then the third main character ends up being in on the Fire Bringer scandal.

You are right that every game after that returned to that trope though. And it repeated a lot of the other tropes as well. This is why Suikoden IV and V don't feel good to me. They're games just trying to imitate Suikoden I and II by using the same plot points (and design) over again. There's more to being a Suikoden game than just repeating the tropes and using 108 characters. Which is why it confuses me why people think Suikoden V is so good when it's just a game trying to imitate Suikoden II (and failing in various areas).

Three rubbed me the wrong way with the firekeeper stuff and cheap as fuck art design that felt worse than Ephemeral Phantasia. Also, hated duck people and the pair system.

That said, I do acknowledge they were experimenting. It was trying for the tangled web of being a merc, a native, and a knight captain during escalating conflict. I just feel like it didn't quite stick the landing.

I liked five because it washed the taste of four out of my mouth. Level scaling is the laziest way to handle open maps and the rune cannon ship combat was easily the worst mass battle system.

Even the creator admits Suikoden III wasn't as good as it should have been. But that's because Konami gave it a shit budget and was rushing it to release. This is precisely why the creator left the company.

If Suikoden III had been given the time and budget it needed, it probably would have been just as good as II. Not unlike the problems with Chrono Cross.

>Which is why it confuses me why people think Suikoden V is so good

I really, really, REALLY like the whole "royal guard/honor guard/organization/group all dressed the same way" trope. A fucking lot.

From organization XIII to Akatsuki, regardless the game/movie/anime, if it has such a group, I WILL love the fuck out of them by default.

Good RPG.

Not a good Suikoden.

I played Suikoden III before Final Fantasy X. So at the time, my view of 3D games was stuff like Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VIII. Suikoden III looked very similar to the blocky, muted style of Ocarina of Time to me so I didn't have a problem with it.

Looking back, of course it wasn't the best graphics. But the bigger problem is the sluggish movement and having to run for 10-20 minutes over huge maps. And Suikoden V ended up having the same thing, despite having better character models.

But other things did it better, don't you agree?

I agree, but that doesn't make me like Suikoden V any less.

>They're games just trying to imitate Suikoden I and II by using the same plot points (and design) over again.
>Which is why it confuses me why people think Suikoden V is so good when it's just a game trying to imitate Suikoden II (and failing in various areas).

This.

At least Suikoden IV tried some new things. That camera. What a step up over Suikoden III. But what the fuck were they thinking with Suikoden V? Here, look at these beautiful character designs... but don't worry, we'll make sure to make them low-poly LEGO characters and shoot the camera up way into the sky to really emulate that Classic Suikoden II Feel! Fucking hell.

Also Lucretia is the worst character in the entire franchise.

I was coming from EP and Journey To Jaburo, so I wasn't much better. The problem wasn't just the cheap graphics, it was the cheap style. It lacked the flair that made Suikoden 1 and 2 pop out compared to everyone stealing from Dragon Quest. That oriental feeling with the music and slutty gypsies that I grew to like with the playstation games was gone and replaced with too green fields and blander music. I did like the tribe aesthetic a bit, but it wasn't enough to catch my interest.

I just can't agree with you there. But then, I don't really know what you mean by "style"? If you mean something like the UI, I felt like Suikoden III had the best UI of the series. If you mean the character and environmental models, that's really the fault of the weak budget and rushed production. And this is why I think Suikoden III would have done better to just stick to being a 2D game using the Suikoden II engine. Because it would have retained the exact same flair you described the first two games having.

Yeah, trying to imitate an isolemtric style with 3D models was just pointless. Both because it didn't end up looking like Suikoden II but also because it made the character animations and movement slow as fuck.

I think it's probably just not a very Suikoden game. I played it with no other exposure to Suikoden and loved it because I had no other biases.

>get 50% through the first game
>have to stop playing
>don't remember the story
>can't play the rest of the series because of it
That was like 7 years ago.

Just replay it? The game is like 15 hours long. Shorter than an NES RPG.

I just want doki doki suikoden: the dating game with 108 heroines...

Daibanchou has a massive amount of girls you can fuck as well as good gameplay.

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>Also Lucretia is the worst character in the entire franchise.
And Lyon is the other worst.