By being able to kill Ganon and beat the game instantly after leaving the Great Plateau, the game essentially renders every single piece of content between Great Plateau and end of the game completely irrelevant. Nothing you do after leaving the Great Plateau matters, because it's completely inessential to beating the game.
Is this good game design?
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nope.
go 2 bed user ur delusional
Yes. There's still other people to help and save. You're supposed to be a hero and help them
Well, it's not BAD game design. Nobody would buy it if they only wanted to skip 90% of the game.
Plus, there's a cool cutscene if you do everything.
There are ways they could have made the "fight the final boss at any time" gimmick work but Nintendo fucked it up. At the very least he should have had an extra form if you bothered to finish the main quest. Instead the game does the exact opposite and reduces the amount of final boss content.
You already made this thread yesterday.
The answer is still no: you are just a fagget, even still.
STALKER has been praised for the shit you described for a decade now.
>if I don’t jump through hoops it’s not a good game
You’re the kind of faggot that ruined MMOs, with your goddamn encyclopedia and guide open to every moment. Achievement grabbing faggot.
Play games and have fun, imagine if you said
>hurr durr I just skip to the end of the book
>why isn’t someone praising me for reading every page?
Fucking idiot, kill yourself
Not OP but riddle me this: Why doesn't the original Legend of Zelda let you fight Ganon at any time? They could have done it easily, there's only a single old man in the way. You have ten seconds.
Didn't Chrono Trigger do this gimmick like 25 years ago?
That's more like NG+ content, unless you're autistic you won't be able to beat Lavos early.
>Why doesn't the original Legend of Zelda let you fight Ganon at any time?
Because why would it?
Especially in the 80s, games were still heavily based on the coin-munching design choices of the arcade games, meaning reaching the end was a physical challenge at worst. Not to mention the game's main goal was not to just beat some pig-monster, but to collect the mystical triforce that would allow you to also perform said task.
The scenario of BotW starts after the calamity, with the slaying of the beast being the last desperate struggle against total annihilation. How you do it doesn't matter, but you can indeed just try to march into the castle and smack the full-power Ganon in the face.
>being good at games is now "autistic"
typical GenZ Sup Forumseddit mentality.
Another faggot that believe killing Ganon is something that you can do easily do without any weapons or armor, nothing to see here.
Have you even played Chrono Trigger? Beating Lavos early is not a matter of skill, it's pure repetitive grinding. Calling it "autistic" is perfectly applicable.
So you suggest the way to play BOTW is to acquire the bare minimum resources required to beat Ganon and then go kill him? Because to do anything else would be pointless.
How difficult is it to beat Ganon as soon as possible?
>Have you even played Chrono Trigger?
Oh have I? First probably long before typical nu-Sup Forums goer was even born.
>Beating Lavos early is not a matter of skill, it's pure repetitive grinding.
more like people like you just cannot play RPGs any more.
>Calling it "autistic" is perfectly applicable.
No.
First of all, autism is a real deal mental disorder, and spewing the term around not only disrespects the people with autism and their relatives, but also dillutes and blurs the word's actual meaning.
I tried that ~50h into the game, before I'd done a single Beast quest yet.
I almost beat him, but ultimately ran out of weapons and items. Keep in mind that my strongest stuff was mere Knight's swords and shit.
If the final fight is literally the only thing that matters to you then yeah
Fuck side quests
BOTW is shit.
How's it feel to have one game living in your head rent free at all times for over a year?
I'm just inviting discussion about a game. Why do you view it as an attack?
I love how you can't actually dispute anything I say, only use insults. And you have the balls to talk about "disrespect", my sides. "nu-Sup Forums" my ass, go back to wherever you came from. Alternatively put your tripcode back on so I can filter you, you seem like one of those types.
What's the deal with this hand holding mentality? The game gives you more things to do, just because Ganon is the final boss it doesn't mean that everything in the game needs to revolve around him.
You should play more games.
Beating the boss ends the game. It is the end state. If nothing else is required to beat the final boss than just running there, then nothing else matters. It can matter in your heart or whatever, but it objectively serves no purpose.
Objectively suck my cock
you're leaving out the part where beating the final boss immediately after leaving the plateau takes a considerable amount of mastery of the game and its mechanics
But it can be done.
yes, and?
So if it can be done, then everything else is meaningless. Feel me?
you do realize you need to do the divine beasts and collect all the memories and shit to get the true ending, right?
If that's is your mentality then that's your problem. You think that the game needs to beg for your time for you to invest on it, by forcing you into doing things to reach the "end state" because reaching that end state its the only thing that YOU care about, but people can play games just because they want to play them, for them good gameplay experiences are the things they look in videogames and the "end state" its only a part of it. Thinking that the only worthy content of a game is whatever the game forces you to do before the last boss is ridiculous, and even in more linear games, a waste of money.
>just go out of your way to collect items for meaningless npc's that suck
By your logic no levels in SMB matter other than 1-2 and 4-2
>super mario bros is badly designed because you can skip levels with warp zones
the absolute fucking state of this board
How is that not bad design?
Because it's not bad design to reward knowledge and skill at the game with a shortcut
Yes, it's fine.
You could go and do the big bad right away, but you'll fail unless you're cheesing shit.
Nintendo's only failure was not making Ganon harder.
Did SMB advertise in its marketing about the incredible feature of being able to warp to world 8?
No.
I think it's awesome.
My biggest gripe with Dragon's Dogma is all the weird side-story stuff you have to do before facing Grigori, none of which actually matters. He just asks that you face him when you think you're strong enough, and the enemies leading up to him are a perfectly fine measure for if you can take him on. That game would be amazing if you could just go straight to him whenever you're ready, instead of having to investigate an irrelevant cult or ship Hydra heads.
nice goalpost moving retard. SMB's warp zones are part of its design, same as with zelda. you can do it, which means the levels you can skip are useless according to you.
This really.
Ganon becomes a huge joke if you get all the upgrades and such.
He should be easier obviously but they really went overboard and turned him into a huge pushover.
if you play games only to beat them and not have fun you're retarded
>Is this good game design?
Yes, it just can't be understood by brainlet children.
>which means the levels you can skip are useless according to you
They are.
technically they are useless, like objectively speaking
>no reply
LOL
Or...beating those levels are an objective all their own
But the overall objective is to beat the final castle.
The overall objective is also to beat each level
You don't have to beat 4-2 by warping
There's this thing called choice that's pretty important for making a game replayable
You're oversimplifying it. You're definitely capable of beating Ganon immediately, but not only will you literally only have 3 or 4 Hearts, you won't have any Armor, no good Weapons, none of the Champion Powers, and you won't have the advantage doing all 4 Divine Beasts give you. So yes, while you can go straight to Ganon and beat the game, you'll be doing so extremely underequipped.
>The overall objective is also to beat each level
No it's not. That's one you're creating for yourself.
What are some examples of well-designed games, OP?
Nope. The levels are there, with their own win state. They are there to be played, therefore beating them is an objective. You are creating an objective for yourself by saying you should only beat the game in the most optimal path.
Every game except BotW unironically
The salt mine never runs dry.
The answer to that question depends entirely on your motivation for playing. If you like playing with a dedicated end goal in mind then yes, this is god fucking awful game design. If you like to explore the world just to explore it with no real end goal in mind, this sort of game design is a non-issue, if not outright preferred. All depends on how you perceive things. I'm personally the former so yeah, I don't care for how BotW works in the grand scheme of things, but not everyone is me.
I love how you ignore people who tells you that beating a game is not the most important thing of playing a game.
One Piece is the journey there, not the treasure at the end
You're getting your feelings mixed up with objectivity. You like meaningless sidequests and meaningless exploration. That's fine. You feel like they have meaning because they are fun to you. But in an OBJECTIVE SENSE, they are meaningless.
op unironically wants every game to be a completely linear on-rails #4thaplayaz cinematic experience that carefully holds your hand and guides you through every piece of content in the game because that's what he's used to on the PS4. the idea of having optional content in a game scares the shit out of him. this is the mentality of the sony fan
Why are you even playing video games if only the end state matters to you?
This is advanced level obsession.
i agree, making the same thread about one game for over a year is pretty obsessive
Absolutely, nonlinearity is what Zelda should be about. Anyone who disagrees with this sentiment needs to kill themselves for having shit taste and/or being underage.
This is the first thread I've ever made about BOTW.
>still no reply
ROFL
Why do you feel that this is what Zelda should be about, despite no other game in the franchise being like this? You had to complete all 8 dungeons to get the triforce pieces in the original Zelda to unlock the last level.
Oda has said that One Piece is an actual physical thing and not "the friends we made along the way" type deal, though. So in One Piece is not just the journey that matters, it's both the journey and the destination.
>You like meaningless sidequests and meaningless exploration. That's fine. You feel like they have meaning because they are fun to you. But in an OBJECTIVE SENSE, they are meaningless.
You are beyond dumb as fuck and completely clueless about Game Design.
Everything in BotW is connected. Your main goal is to defeat Ganon. Best way to do that is to make yourself more poweful to stand a chance against him. Best way to do that is to explore the world, find shrines to increase your strength, beat the Devine Beasts to weaken Ganon, complete sidequests to further build your strength/amour/weapons.
There is nothing 'meaningless' in any of BotW's systems. You're just fucking STOOPID and everyone is laughing at you.
>yer autist if you can play games better than I do!
t.(You). There's nothing to dispute.
>balls to talk about disrespect
Yeah, I got way more balls than some 90s kid that can only do autistic screeching.
>go back where you came from
Right back at ya. I've been here, and just here, for the past 13 years.
Well since it seems the one deciding what's objectively correct and incorrect in video games here it's you, that is again your problem not the game's.
??????
>still no reply
LMAO
No.
>more like people like you just cannot play RPGs any more.
What the fuck are you even on about? You can't actually beat Lavos arbitrarily early except on NG+, which only unlocks after you beat the standard ending. It's literally just not possible because of your equipment. CT is a very restrictive game and provides no more freedom than the average JRPG. The only conceivable way to attempt to beat the game early is to grind, and most of the endings are actually locked until NG+, there's nothing creative or clever you can do to get these things early or "out of order" because CT just isn't the type of game where this is possible.
>The only conceivable way to attempt to beat the game early is to grind,
But you can do it.
>still no reply
AHAHAHAHA
Bullshit, you cant beat lavos without heavy grinding, even at the earliest point you could beat him.
You can beat ganon just by grabbing shit along the way and planning.
Maybe go outside sometimes
>you cant beat lavos without heavy grinding
But you can beat him.
Without trying to sound disrespectful, I'm thinking that browsing reddit instead of Sup Forums would suit you better, since you act like an elitist buffoon.
I'll have to check, but I think there's only one other ending that's possible on your first run, and beating the game this way actually locks you out of NG+ and prevents you from getting the other endings. So you still have to play through all of the linear part of the game until the end game no matter what.
You'd think that the game would allow you to do neat things with time travel in order to subvert this, but it doesn't.
based
>I'll have to check, but I think there's only one other ending that's possible on your first run, and beating the game this way actually locks you out of NG+ and prevents you from getting the other endings. So you still have to play through all of the linear part of the game until the end game no matter what.
What a coincidence, to get the true ending in BotW you also have to do stuff besides immediately beating Ganon. Almost as if beating Ganon as fast as possible is some kind of optional side challenge, and the real meat of the game is doing the Divine Beasts...hmm...makes you think!
Tell me then, when, on your first playthrough, can you?
>without trying to sound disrespectful
>since you act like an elitist buffoon
You said you can't beat him without grinding. If you grind, you can beat him. That means it's pointless to do anything besides grinding and then fighting him.
Besides 1999, the first time you fight lavos is in ocean palace. he hits you with an attack that is meant to kill you. At that point, your equipment isnt meant to fight him and im doubting being at lvl 99 would change that.
I'm not disputing you on this, but the point stands that BotW, for better or worse, gives you far more freedom to approach it than CT does.
No, you cannot. You have to get through the entire main section of the game before you can beat him, even maxing out your level won't let you win until you've at least reached the end game.
You're right here.
First open world game? Some games aren't about just getting to the end.
Also, you technically get the bad end if you don't recover all of the memories. There's no gratification in not getting the good ending.
>it's completely inessential to beating the game
True
>Nothing you do after leaving the Great Plateau matters
False and borderline retarded
Making your job of killing Ganon easier isn't mandatory but it is extremely helpful.
That IS good game design. Games should give players degrees of freedom in how they can be played.
youtube.com
OH NO NO NO
>Become millionare
>Die anyway at the age of 80
Man why didn't I just take a gun to my head? It would have been so much quicker.
What's the matter? Not enough "ebin memes" for you?
I bet the 2004 internet would kill you.
Yes.
If there were conditions to unlock the Ganon battle, you would be complaining that it's not true Open World, because you are still being led by the game, making it linear instead of open world.
Now you have a choice. You can literally do whatever you want, your hand is not being held. You can go straight to the final boss if you want, but then you miss out on the lore, and exploring the world. You be the judge if it matters or not. I would say if you bought a game, but you want to skip all the content because it "doesn't matter" just because you are able to, then I have to wonder why you even bought the game in the first place.
It'd be fantastic game design if Ganon was a challenging fight. But as it is most people end up overleveled and kill him no problem. Personally, I think the idea of making an Open World game where all the content is optional side quests is ingenious and I wonder why it isn't already the standard.
How does it feel to know that every time you post something like this you out yourself as a newfag whose never participated in Zelda discussion of Sup Forums before? A vocal and passionate fan base tends to discuss a game for a long time, who knew?
Warp Zones are secrets, not features. Also, if you skip levels in Mario Bros. you miss out on a lot of one-up opportunities making the final stages much more challenging, because if you mess up enough times you have to start the whole game over from the beginning. BotW doesn't have a lives system so you can brute force your way through the final encounters no problem.
Real life is not a video game. There is no objective to real life. Real life is badly designed.
>because if you mess up enough times you have to start the whole game over from the beginning
>he doesn't know the continue trick
>>he doesn't know the continue trick
Tell me more