ITT: Uncomfortable vidya truths

ITT: Uncomfortable vidya truths
DmC is the best western hack n slash

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DmC is not a hack n slash
It's not the best at anything.

>not a hack and slash
>clearly a hack and slash by any industry standard
Go drink bleach you faggot

>western
Except the part where Capcom's team took over and basically reworked the game's systems.

Hack and slash is for diablo clones

$20 indie games are higher quality than 95% of triple A releases.

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desperate

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Darksiders 2 is better than your game, Tameem.

Epin b8 brah yah got me!! XDDDXD

People are arguing the best statement and ignoring that he just called DmC a western game

it is and that says a lot about western vidya
t. DMCfag

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Wonderful 101 is Platinum’s Magnum Opus especially with all the callbacks

I agree, but it's still the fourth best DMC.

>hack n slash
You just fucked up any hope of a good thread OP.

It definitely is with DE. Darksiders 2 would've been if it didn't have the loot stuff.

>hack n slash
That's the Diablo genre you fuck. DmC and the like are stylish action games. It's brain dead half brother are musou games.

youtube.com/watch?v=KJWbB9V7dWU

The soundtrack was good

Even disregarding your wrong genre label for action games, what you're saying isn't close to true

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I'd fully agree with you if not for the rather dull midgame and abundance of shooter segments that overstayed their welcome.

darksiders 2 has the same amount of depth and isn't full of retarded combat decisions like blue enemies only taking hits from blue weapons

And you're the smartest kid in special ed. What's your point?

I think many agree there, and a good portion who don't probably understandably never owned a Wii U.

The real uncomfortable truth is that the 2nd best Platinum game is Transformers Devastation. The combat is arguably the best by the studio and it looks/sounds great but W101 just kills it in every single aspect so it still wins.

I bet you call fighting games Beat 'em ups too.

Transformers is better than W101; what W101 is doing is really cool but it gets docked points for the camera giving me nausea when it turns and for the raw (meaning no upgrades) combat being so fucking barebones. You have to unlock a dodge move in that game, and for the first half you basically have two attacks available to you.

It develops into something really special but it takes too long to get there to be the best. Devastation is spectacular right out of the box and only gets better as you continue to play.

>blue enemies only taking hits from blue weapons
Of all the things that DmC does wrong, this is not and never was one of them, and I will never understand the people who bitch about it as a design choice.

Maybe instead of isolating one enemy in a perpetual juggle and then moving on to the next one, you should try fighting multiple enemies at once, that way you can retain your full arsenal and keep a good style rank going while also having to maintain some goddamn situational awareness.

HIS HAIRS NOT WHITE REEEEEEEE

I understood it as
> western games suck, this jap shit is the best at what they do
If that was the intention then;

There's too much exploration. Even some of the gauntlet games are closer to diablo than heros. So if it's more of a gradient than a hard line in the sand, DMC is more in the "not a hack n slash" bucket.

Inb4
>then what is it?
A Japanese action/exploration game, with Western themes and Japanese tone.

>Of all the things that DmC does wrong, this is not and never was one of them
You're wrong, fuck off. It's retarded and boring, DmC is limiting with the weapons as much as it is, being limited even more makes for a really lazy combat. Fighting blue enemies is a chore.

It stifles creativity in a series all about it.

If every enemy lets you use every move all of the time then there's no reason to really have any enemies except for the basic grunt.

The core of good enemy design in a game like DmC is that the enemies all respond to your moves in different ways; shield enemies that can't be attacked from the front, heavy enemies that can't be knocked into the air, bulletproof enemies that can't be attacked with guns, whatever.

The color coding is a pretty lazy way of explaining it in-game, but it's not at all unreasonable to have certain enemies be immune to one type of weapon and vulnerable to another. It's only bullshit if the game just puts two blue enemies in front of you like "ha, go fuck yourself and use the scythe and blades only" but after the tutorial mission for the mechanic, the game always lays them out in smart pairs; a blue and a red shield enemy together, a red shield enemy with 3 grunts, a witch (with a blue shield and red swords) and a buzzsaw dude, whatever.

It only "limits creativity" if by "creativity" you mean "I want to spam demon dodge and Flush with the axe and I can't do it against the witch so fuck this game". You should be using your blue weapons on the blue enemies and switching TARGETS when you switch weapons in your combos.

/thread

God of War is better.

>DmC
>hack n slash
Fucking retard

what should it be called then? character action game is the most autistic name I've ever heard for a genre aside from moba

OP here, also:
Dragon Age 2 is Bioware's best game
Fallout 3 is the best Fallout
Other M is the best Metroid
06 is the best Sonic game

You're clearly just trying to shit post with this thread

"Stylish Action Game" is what Kamiya calls them, and he effectively invented the genre, so I say we go with that.

It's funny how the same couple of guys keep bitching about the outdated version of DmC always manage to show up in these threads. It's like half of Sup Forums stopped playing games years ago.

What, you couldn't tell that from the very start?

any version of DmC is shit, doesn't really matter which you talk about.

Did the definitive edition really fix that much? I've noticed a surge in people who think it's okay to like this game.

not in a million years

No, the only thing it changed was the opposite colored weapons only do slightly more damage now.

I haven't played it and prefer DmC over DMC4, but from what I've seen it specifically addresses things people hated about DmC

I'm OP and I couldn't even finish those games they were so awful

>prefer DmC over DMC4
Of course you do.

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>and prefer DmC over DMC4
absolutely garbage taste

>I-I'm OP guys XD look at me say things for OP!
Fuck off buddy.

Establishing trip so people can't do this anymore.

Made by a western team, so i would classify it as a western game, even if the franchise isn't

>try fighting multiple enemies at once,
yeah that works great when the red and blue knights are standing next to each other and literally every attack in the game will cause you to bounce off their magic force fields
obviously this isn't a problem because you just pull one away and air juggle him to death but it completely prevents you from being aggressive and fighting in the middle of the crowd
also style rank is just "did you use the axe recently". it has nothing to do with situational awareness or whatever the fuck

that seems too vague. God of War and Ninja Gaiden are the same genre of DMC but I dont think Stylish Action is an appropriate label for them

Nah there's not really any significant differences, it's just people thinking that if they post their shit taste enough it'll become okay.

I do. God of War is DEFINITELY about spectacle and style; Ninja Gaiden I guess maybe not but as long as you're running on walls and shit, I mean, come on.

retards like you are the reason we need thread IDs

>Of all the things that DmC does wrong, this is not and never was one of them

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fuck off faggot you aren't the real OP

>he's still doing it
I really don't know what you hope to accomplish.

fucking idiot

I FOUND YOU, FAKER!

>style rank is just "did you use the axe recently"
See, but that's one of the things that IS valid to bitch about. The way damage and style points were tied together was total bullshit and was an actual, huge flaw with DmC.

That's not the same thing as hating on the color-coding, though. If Bayonetta had some enemies that could always parry your kick attacks, and some that could always parry your punch attacks, would that have ruined the game? I don't think so.

primo b8, take notes kids

>If Bayonetta had some enemies that could always parry your kick attacks, and some that could always parry your punch attacks, would that have ruined the game?
It'd certainly make it significantly worse.

Hey fuck you buddy don't hack my trip.

Not him but DMC4 isn't that fucking great. I unironically think it's more fun to play Nero's half that Dante's half, there's way too much bullshit built around style switching and it seems like the design team intentionally made basic actions with Dante as complicated as fucking possible just to mandate greater use of style switching.

Why the fuck does Swordmaster need to be equipped for a simple air combo? Or for That One Ground Combo I can't remember the name of? Nero had 3 basic main combos and 2 basic air combos (which is more than Dante has running Swordmaster) plus Helm Breaker and they did it with one button. Why the fuck can't Dante be put together the same way?

Of course he IS put together that way in DmC and it's one of the things I like about it.

You've got some pretty discerning taste when it comes to shit.

Jesus Christ I didn't think it was possible to be this shitty at video games. I've never been good at DMC and even I didn't have any problems with style switching.

Only a complete shit-eater would want less moves just because it's too hard for him to use them all.

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Why? Why does adding that sort of skill gate to a game ruin it? I really and truly don't understand.

Didn't you ever play Spyro the Dragon as a fucking kid? You can attack with fire or horn rams, and some enemies are immune to fire and some are immune to horn rams, and part of the way encounter designs are put together is how those types of enemies are laid out together.

It feels like such a basic goddamn component of designing a combat system and I really don't get why there's so much hate for it.

literally git gud

>DmC is not a hack n slash
What is it then?

It's not that it's HARD, it's that I shouldn't have to. Seriously, Dante could have at least had the ability to perform a basic 4 hit air combo while running Trickster, it would have made combo-and-dodge air game more fun. Yes, you CAN switch between them, but what does it accomplish? What is gained from having Helm Breaker ALWAYS there on Triangle, instead of lock+forward+triangle like it was on Nero?

Was there ever anyone, in the history of DMC4 players, who was playing Nero's segment and went "FUCK, why do I have to press forward to do a Helm Breaker, that's way too complicated"? Helm Breaker is a universally accessible command but you have to use the style switch to do a basic air combo? That's good game design?

If you weren't looking to build cred for yourself by refusing to critique DMC3/4 you would see that there's a shitload wrong with how Dante controls in that game.

>skill gate
Do you really, unironically think that has anything to do with skill in the slightest?
Also, Spyro is a platformer. Not only is that a garbage comparison, you also have to be really, really, really fucking dumb to think the two are comparable.

In a game with a primary focus on combat and style, that adds nothing. And quite frankly, I think it's hilarious that you think such a feature requires "skill," when I'm positive you probably couldn't even get past Cerberus in DMC3.

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it's an action game

>it's that I shouldn't have to
Why not?
Why should everyone get less moves just because you can't figure out how to style-switch effectively?

>If you weren't looking to build cred for yourself
>he says replying to a post where I just said I was never good at DMC

It all just barrels down to you being bad at the game. styles tailor to how you want to go through a combat experience, and you can get away with not using sword master at all if you're good enough

>DmC is the best western hack n slash
That's only because Itsuno and co. had to salvage a bunch of shit near the games release.

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Gonna tell you right now, there was never anyone in the history of DMC4 players that had an issue with style-switching except for you.

As someone who has actually played DmC, God of War was better in pretty much every aspect. Gameplay, music, the first game's plot, the only thing DmC did well was art style for the levels.

>Do you really, unironically think that has anything to do with skill in the slightest?
It's a way of preventing mindless mashing by making certain attacks not functional in certain contexts, so yes.

I picked Spyro because it was the first example that came to mind, but I could have just as easily invoked bulletproof enemies in Nier Automata, or how Kulshedra pulls don't work on heavy enemies in Bayonetta. Having some types of attacks fail against some types of enemies is not bad game design.

you and several other retards have misunderstood completely. I'm not saying DmC is good. I'm saying it is the best hack n beat n style n fight n combo n dodge n spectacle n character game made by a non japanese studio because the bar is so fucking low. Christ.

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>It's a way of preventing mindless mashing
If you're mindlessly mashing in any DMC game aside from 2 then you're probably dying.

GoW is better western garbage

And you'd be wrong, because God of War was better.

>Why should everyone get less moves
Did you not ever realize that Nero has MORE COMBOS THAN DANTE, at least with a single set of weapons?

Nero had 3 ground combos (YYY, YY*Y, Y*YY) and 2 air combos (YY*Y, YYY) PLUS High Time, Helm Breaker, and something akin to Stinger, and they did it with one attack button.

Give Dante the same basic arsenal of moves and put even MORE on Swordmaster; that gives him a respectable arsenal of moves with all styles active and lets style switching be more about advanced maneuvers, instead of a mandatory component of performing BASIC FUCKING ACTIONS like an air combo or an air dodge.

I made the mistake of playing Bayonetta before any DMC game so I don't have the rose-colored glasses. Dante is way harder to control than he needs to be, smart input design would have enabled them to do a whole lot more with Styles than they did, and just because you got used to DMC's janky as fuck controls doesn't mean they are good. It's the same as the camera in the game; it's tolerable but it's far from indefensible.

>It's a way of preventing mindless mashing
Alright user, give this a shot:
Load up DMC3, play on any mode that isn't bumfuck-easy, and just keep pressing triangle.
Just mindlessly mash triangle.
See how far that gets you.

You can mindlessly mash your way through most attack openings fine. You have to pay attention for defensive maneuvers but it's not like any enemy in the game gives a shit which attack string you spit out.

>Did you not ever realize that Nero has MORE COMBOS THAN DANTE

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wrong. I like GoW but its much slower and its combo potential is much much lower than DmCs

It fixed some enemy spawns on SoS and above to be better balanced and you do half damage to colored enemies with none of that bullshit combo-breaking knockback. There were spawns in the original on SoS mission 3 that consisted of those buzzsaw demons with the single weakness in the core and hell knights so you were stuck using only demon weapons for the whole spawn. Also, bosses don't bug out on SoS and above like they used to.
Lockon is now a thing and the reticle is also a health gauge. Inputs for Stinger motions can now be done with the classic input.
Hardcore mode increases enemy aggression a bit, drops the amount of Style you get significantly (making it far harder to even get SSS until you have a bunch of weapons to switch to), and makes DT not throw enemies up in the air. However, DT doesn't last as long and there's no taunting, so it's still pretty useless.

that's just flat out wrong

GODS

I don't get it. I don't get why people like you play on easy modes and then act like you're some sort of authority on game design.

the problem isn't having enemies that encourage using x attack
the problem is putting you in an unavoidable stun animation just for using rebellion on certain enemies. shadows, bloodgoyles, fausts, flaming enemies from bayonetta and almost every enemy in w101 encourage you to use a certain attack but you're still able to hit them with whatever once you get past the gimmick.
rewarding you for using the right weapon is much more fun than preventing you for using the wrong one

>it's another "my knowledge of this game is exclusively surface-level but I'm going to act like anything I say is a claim of fact" episode

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Not that we needed any more proof, but I guess we've found once again that DmC fans are actually, genuinely retarded.

>DmC is the best western hack n slash
Nah, that title goes to Marlow Briggs.

The first sentence is right, it's a slasher
What other western slashers are even there apart from God of War, which is ruined now?

With one sword and one gun, he does. Dante has access to multiple weapons which is where the vast majority of his diverse moveset comes from. If Nero had been given Dante's weapon set you could have easily given him all of Dante's moves without using the Style system.

there is already a GoW thread for that

The camera is isometric for 95 percent of w101, what are you talking about? And the combat might be bare bones at the beginning, but it arguably has one of the biggest movesets in a platinum game because you have all of your weapons available to you at the same time once they're all unlocked.

There's Heavenly Sword. Which is considerably worse than both.