Now that everyone is talking about Rareware again, let's talk about Perfect Dark...

Now that everyone is talking about Rareware again, let's talk about Perfect Dark. Why has Perfect Dark -- among the best FPS games ever created -- kinda slipped into obscurity? I'm not saying people don't still talk about it, but it feels like there is an entire generation of gamers who have no idea what makes Perfect Dark so great, or even what Perfect Dark even is. Is it because it was a late N64 game with a remaster that is an Xbox exclusive?

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because goldeneye did everything better a couple years prior

Perfect Dark is better than GoldenEye in every single way. GE was a great prototype. Perfect Dark is the actual game.

I think it just came too late and Perfect Dark Zero didn't turn out the way people had hoped.

Now that is just a retarded statement.

You can't make accusations like that without evidence. I asshume you have some?

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Because
>it was on n64
What's popular now is playstation and xbox. Not even xbox hardcore fans played Perfect Dark on 360, and most people grew up with a Gaystation 1 or 2, especially in Yurope.

>it required the Expansion Pak to play the single player
Very few people even had that thing so it's not surprising that few people even played this game. Most likely people just rented it with or without the Pak.

perfect dark was the perfect FPS game.
It also paved the way for progression and accounts in FPS games.
I used to play it with my friends and most of us would carry a mem card in our pockets to upload and download our stats.

Tranqs and mags on facility with bots is the best fun I have ever had in an fps game

Recently been playing this with keyboard and mouse controls and I can say confidently that it's one of the best fps of all time.

Wasn't Perfect Dark: XBLA one of the best selling games on that platform? Also, PD XBLA was part of Rare Replay. So the game is on N64, Xbox 360, and Xbox One.

Was Zero any good? I've seen no gameplay for it at all and hardly anyone ever talks about it.

>shitty bots
>required an expansion pack thing to actually play the game properly
>boring gunplay
It wasn't better than Goldeneye.

>perfect dark was the perfect FPS game.
Please play more than console FPS.

what so gregor can hack my shit up with aimbots and people can pretend rocket jumping and bunny hopping are actual game mechanics rather than exploits
no thanks

I hope you guys keep memeing this game, in the hope MS puts this on PC.

There's no way I'll get an Xbox to play this, and as far as I've researched, there is no proper way to emulate this without clunky aiming.

PD: Zero was the Turok: Evolution of Perfect Dark games. It badly missed the point of its predecessor's design, and instead of innovating upon its foundations it frantically imitated contemporaries who were an extremely ill fit for the Perfect Dark formula.

>Please play more than console FPS.
A lot of people nowdays are playing Perfect Dark with a mouse and keyboard through emulation, though. It's not like we've ever had a native PC FPS game that ever surpassed Perfect Dark, anyway.

>boring gunplay

It's exactly the same but with more variety. It also has reload animations which goldenkek don't

I've replayed the remastered version recently in co-op with a friend. That was a fucking blast.
I had forgotten how good the music is.
youtube.com/watch?v=rytMNhrY3xo

Absolute masterpiece of a game.

1964 emulator allows for mouse support easily

>shit boots
Say that to my darksim, fucker

Really like the OST in this game.

Perfect Dark's weapon variety, animation, and sound effects are god-tier. The K7 Avenger and that punchy "ka-chick" sound the magazine makes when Joanna slams it into place is stuck in my head forever. The gunfeel is pretty different to GoldenEye, that said, so I understand why people who love GE might dislike PD's take.

No. PD is one of my favorite games of all time and I was hype as fuck when zero came out but it was a huge disappointment in nearly every single way.

This. PD is an amazing console FPS, but it can't compete with the best PC FPS games of the era. Still, even by PC standards PD would have been pretty damn great, similar to Timesplitters 2.

I saw a tweet from Grant Kirkhope recently that he wrote the Chicago music while thinking about the rainy scenes in Blade Runner.

>what so gregor can hack my shit up with aimbots
Stop playing shit games.
>people can pretend rocket jumping and bunny hopping are actual game mechanics rather than exploits
I don't care if you dislike bunny hopping but you can fuck right off if you don't think rocket jumping is legit.
>It's not like we've ever had a native PC FPS game that ever surpassed Perfect Dark, anyway.
The fuck? Why are you falseflagging? Perfect Dark doesn't even hold a candle to the likes of Doom or Duke Nukem.

>This. PD is an amazing console FPS, but it can't compete with the best PC FPS games of the era.
Such as? Can you think of a single PC FPS game that offered comparable gameplay? NOLF was too twitchy. You mostly had Quake clones and Half-Life clones. Neither of those could match PD. Oh, sure you had Delta Force, but that wasn't anything like PD. The PC FPS scene was preoccupied with multiplayer, and much of PC FPS design, weapon design in particular, was oriented around MP balancing.

Goldeneye had proximity mines only multiplayer, Perfect Dark had the superior Temple with Slayer only multiplayer.

It's okay to subjectively like Goldeneye more than Perfect Dark, but from an objective standpoint the latter was better in every way.
>shitty bots
Better than no bots, and it's not like you were able to kill a team of darksims anyway so I don't know what you're getting at here.
>required an expansion pack
Sucked that you had to shell out extra to Nintendo to get the full game, but that doesn't really apply to the quality of the gameplay itself.
>boring gunplay
It's literally the same gunplay made by the same developers but with MORE stuff added in terms of weapons and mechanics. Plus the gameplay itself could be customized so much farther than Goldeneye's that any problems you invented could easily be fixed to your own tastes.

All I gathered from your post was that you liked the setting of Goldeneye better, because that's the only thing that isn't objectively improved by the pseudo-sequel that Perfect Dark represents.

>Perfect Dark doesn't even hold a candle to the likes of Doom or Duke Nukem.
This is like saying, "Thief 2 doesn't even hold a candle to the likes of Doom and Duke Nukem". Those games were, for lack of a better word, dumb FPS games. They were all about shooting and finding the exit. Perfect Dark is from a very different underlying design philosophy.

>Those games were, for lack of a better word, dumb FPS games. They were all about shooting and finding the exit.
Wow I can't tell if you didn't play those games and you're talking shit or you really believe this.

>It's literally the same gunplay made by the same developers but with MORE stuff added in terms of weapons and mechanics. Plus the gameplay itself could be customized so much farther than Goldeneye's that any problems you invented could easily be fixed to your own tastes.
That isn't entirely true. There's a clear difference in the sound design of GE's weapons, and it's even apparent when using the unlockable versions in PD. Also, PD toned down enemy hit reactions so there's less longwinded stunlocking. Plus they nerfed explosions. You could fill entire rooms with smoke in GE, but smoke clears quite quickly in PD. The feel of shooting is different in PD. When you shot a wall in GE, there was this huge rain of particles. When you shoot a wall in PD, it's much more subdued. This isn't necessarily "better" or "worse", but rather different.

I'm talking about multiplayer here user. PD's singleplayer was great indeed but that's generally not what you compare when you're talking about FPS games past the mid 90s. So yeah, plenty of PC FPS such as Unreal Tournament (pick you iteration) and Quake were better. Aside from the singleplayer campaign I can't think of anything PD does that my favorite PC FPS games didn't do better. And that's okay, because FPS on console are naturally limited. They did an excellent job with what they had available, which is why it's one of my favorite games of all time.

How is he wrong, user?

>You mostly had Quake clones and Half-Life clones. Neither of those could match PD.
Oh boy I really hope you're only implying the clones can't compare rather than saying anything controversial.

>I'm talking about multiplayer here user.
>PD's singleplayer was great indeed but that's generally not what you compare when you're talking about FPS games past the mid 90s.
Some of the greatest FPS games ever made don't even have multiplayer. Like, a decent portion of the Wolfenstein series never had MP.

>These games are inferior to Perfect Dark because they're "dumb fps games"

Perfect Dark is vastly superior to both Quake and Half-Life. It doesn't help that Half-Life has some of the worst shooting and hit reactions of any FPS game, and Half-Life 2 somehow made it even worse.

It's more that they're basically a completely different genre while Perfect Dark has more in common with Thief and System Shock 2 and the like. (However its core design is way less clunky than those games.)

>Perfect Dark is vastly superior to both Quake and Half-Life.
You win the "worst post of the night" reward.

probably because PDZ was antiquated on release and wasn't very good in general.

Them being basically different genres aside, what do Quake and Half-Life do better than Perfect Dark?

FPS with MP and FPS without MP are separate categories, they attempt to do different things for different people. PD and GE both focus on multiplayer alongside singleplayer, and indeed the argument could be made that they (at least in PD's case) are multiplayer-centric games. You wouldn't compare Wolfenstein/Half Life/Prey(2017) to Call of Duty/Halo/Unreal Tournament when trying to claim one is the best in its genre, because they're from different genres.

Physics, level design, gunplay, controls, AI, multiplayer, graphics, moddability etc. want me to keep going on?

>PD and GE both focus on multiplayer alongside singleplayer, and indeed the argument could be made that they (at least in PD's case) are multiplayer-centric games.
GE's multiplayer was made in 6 weeks by one person working in secret. It was not an "MP-centric" game. It was common practice to add MP to games, particularly on the N64. Banjo Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 both have multiplayer. Banjo Tooie had a counter-op mode that was scrapped but can be hacked into the game.

kys faggot

kek

a fellow with taste I see.

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>Physics
How do Half-Life and Quake have better physics than Perfect Dark? PD has remarkably good physics systems. Just look at how escalators handle moving and dropped objects.
>level design
You've got to be kidding. Quake's level design looks nothing like real locations. It's literal painted corridors. Half-Life is painfully linear. The world is a facade.
>controls
What do you mean by this?
>AI
That's an interesting one. Quake? No. But Half-Life's AI design is pretty good. PD had to make sacrifices due to CPU limitations, but it does a much better job of making NPCs seem human.
>multiplayer
Half-Life and Quake have native co-op and native counter-op where the second player takes control of random enemies and attempt to stop the player?
>graphics
You can't shoot out lights in Quake or Half-Life.

Easily one of my top 10, but the weapon balance in MP was admittedly bad. Automatic weapons were just absurd.

Rareware have admitted in interviews that they didn't really care about balancing. That's why the FarSight is in MP. They did add small touches like being unarmed preventing auto-aim working on you, but really it was "make your own balancing" through weapon choices and fair play.

dude the weapon sound effects were the best! the heavy ass ka-chunk when you racked the Devastators charging handle was tits and the reload sound/animation of the cyclone and Mag-Sec 4 was top tier

I still go back to listen to the OST every so often.

Dem memories of sitting in the Carrington Institute gun range.
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>"make your own balancing" through weapon choices and fair play
not gonna lie, that sounds like those dudes who played Rock Paper Scissors to decide who got the Smash Ball.

it just bothers me that half the weapon pool is pretty much invalidated especially the Shotgun sucking massive ass, then the other half is the automatics which all end up being used the same way.

absolutely based

This game still has more mutliplayer and bot options than basically every recent aaa shooter combined and its not even close lol what an embarrassment for every shooter that isnt perfect dark.

Probably one of the best coop campaigns of all time, but it ran like total ass, it was too much for the old N64.

>How do Half-Life and Quake have better physics than Perfect Dark? PD has remarkably good physics systems. Just look at how escalators handle moving and dropped objects.
Perfect Dark's physics are far more superfluous to Half Life's physics which worked in real time.
>You've got to be kidding. Quake's level design looks nothing like real locations.
Who the fuck cares? What matters is if the level is fun to navigate (which it is).
>It's literal painted corridors
Blatantly untrue.
>Half-Life is painfully linear. The world is a facade.
It's linear yet feels massive and open. That's good game design.
>What do you mean by this?
Isn't a slow stiff piece of shit.
>That's an interesting one. Quake? No. But Half-Life's AI design is pretty good. PD had to make sacrifices due to CPU limitations, but it does a much better job of making NPCs seem human.
Fine.
>Half-Life and Quake have native co-op and native counter-op where the second player takes control of random enemies and attempt to stop the player?
Mods exist you know, not to mention both games are responsible for paving way to two different competitive FPS scenes.
>You can't shoot out lights in Quake or Half-Life.
No one even opens their fucking mouths in Perfect Dark.

jesus christ you got B T F O
you're going to live stream your suicide now right?

GE was literally a tech demo and beta version of PD

?

I hate that Rare killed Perfect Dark by going backward in time with it and going with a cartoony style instead of keeping what made it good, and keeping the realistic tone and style.

Conker had a better multiplayer than both Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. Fight me.

I will fight you. In that awesome mode where one of you gets to be a dinosaur.

>TFW Rare and Microsoft already made the perfect Goldeneye remastr but Nintendo are keeping it from release

Ffs Ninty sort something out, you and MS are friendos now. The game is already finished so they might as well make a quick buck.

Most likely Microsoft desu. It probably didn't make sense to some executive why they should bother supporting two different FPS IPs.

>stunlocks you with knives
Nothin' personnel Fangy

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Not him, but I want to chime in.
>Perfect Dark's physics are far more superfluous to Half Life's physics which worked in real time.
HL2 everything falls too fast, and explosions are just a pop and they're done. And enemies go straight into ragdoll the moment they die. Halo does this the best by making the enemy have some kind of death animation and then they go into ragdoll. PD didn't have ragdoll enemies, but the death animations made it more realistic than just going straight to ragdoll.
>What matters is if the level is fun to navigate (which it is).
PD levels are more fun to explore than Quake's. Quake is an arena shooter, you're not gonna get complicated maps because you need space and simplicity to move around it. People are complaining about Quake Champions because they're getting stuck on corners and ledges because there's too much detail. It's not a bad thing but Quake has much less exploration but more utility. But if I had to choose between exploring areas in both games I'd say PD's is more interesting and more interactive. Even the multiplayer maps in PD are simplified and nowhere ear as detailed as the singleplayer game.
>It's linear yet feels massive and open. That's good game design.
Oh boy, I hate this so much. Players aren't stupid. HL2's world breaks down the moment I realize I can't get to an area I want to. It's pretty and convincing the first playthrough, but a few levels in you realize it's all smoke and mirrors and there's really no exploration. It's fun if you stay on the right path strictly for the story, but it's not a game you can go back and keep playing. In PD everything is so open-ended, and even if you fail a mission you can still keep playing and stuff still keeps happening. In fact there are ways to complete a mission even if you fail a certain objective. It feels big AND it doesn't always lock you into the script.
>Isn't a slow stiff piece of shit.
There's nothing slow or stiff about PD.
>open mouths
mocap tho

>Played the challenges a month ago
>Get the shotgun
>Get ready to eat shit Mr.Blonde
>Its shit
No wonder I never grabbed the shotgun as a kid

>Perfect Dark's physics are far more superfluous to Half Life's physics which worked in real time.
Huh? How are Perfect Dark's physics not realtime? It's not like either game had ragdolling or anything. If you shoot a gun from an enemy's hand in PD, that's a physicalized object. If you knock the gun onto an escalator, the escalator will carry it to the bottom. Most scene geometry in Half-Life is static geometry. In PD, furniture can be pushed around. It's not super fancy stuff, but it's going the extra mile, Duke Nukem 3D style.
>Who the fuck cares? What matters is if the level is fun to navigate (which it is).
Perfect Dark was built around a design philosophy of crafting locations and then creating mission objectives that took place within that location. This idea was extremely novel at the time, and you find traces of it in games like Hitman. Here's a realistic building, and here's the objectives you have to accomplish within that building. (Also the Rainbow 6 games used similar ideas.)
>Mods exist you know, not to mention both games are responsible for paving way to two different competitive FPS scenes.
Competitive FPS isn't really relevant, though. If anything, Perfect Dark is most notable for making co-op work way better than it ever had before.

Oh shit, I just realized you guys were talking about OG Half-life, not Half-Life 2. wtf, the first HL is trash and doesn't hold up today at all. IF you wanna compare PD to Half-life go with the sequel which is more comparable. Shit, the only redeeming qualities Half-life 1 has are:
1) Cockroach AI
2) Light switches
3) Killable npcs
The rest of the game is trash, especially the physics. Everything else in HL1 has been improved by current shooters.

youre an idiot mate.

HL1 also has better shooting and weapon feel imho.

Pretty much every word of that post is true, though.

WHO ARE YOU YOUNG LADY

>Why has Perfect Dark -- among the best FPS games ever created -- kinda slipped into obscurity?

I never could play it. The game has bargain bin game tier sound design.