>Game Workers Unite is a fledgling effort to get game devs unionized that’s formed around this year’s GDC. The organization was born of discussion surrounding an upcoming roundtable on unionization to be hosted by the International Game Developers Association.
Would game devs unionizing be good for vidya or bad?
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wsws.org
twitter.com
this only effect AAA titles.
Good. In b4 accusations of gommunism.
no games
Unions are never a good thing.
Good. The biggest issues in game development is crunch time which leads to shoddy and buggy games because the devs have to meet an arbitrary timeline dictated by some suits hundreds of miles away. Also, most of the project leads are idiots with little to no dev experience. If workers could band together to resist stupid game designs like loot boxes, vidya would be better
Unions had their place and time. That time is no longer now.
It'll be good at first, then like all unions, they will get fat, lazy and stupid.
prices increase because wages need to be increased for devs to pay their union dues because they cant pay those AND earn a living wage
if they feel they need to further politicize their "le industry" they can
I suppose so, same as real unions. Better conditions for game devs means potentially better games, and better pay too.
But it could kinda be double edge'd considering how expensive AAA games are, and how complete better treatment of AAA devs means less money going into the game, meaning either less quality games, OR longer dev times.
Unions are always a good thing, take the corporate cock out of your ass
>no dev unions
>vidya prices still increasing with DLC, season passes, loot boxes, etc
Really makes you think
Based on a history of devs being treated like shit by companies like EA this seems like a good thing for AAA games.
You don't know shit, teenager.
more and more aspects of video game production are already outsourced and large studios like ubisoft already have studios in countries with very lax labor laws. if people unionize they're just going to lose their jobs to a foreign studio elsewhere. its shitty but its reality.
No it's not because "muh America" people will just start pirating more.
How to you pirate for Consoles?
Sup Forums is of course anti-union because they've never held a job before.
t. increasing nervous EA exec
Hey what if the top men took salary cuts?
Tbh I'd take longer dev times and more expensive games if it meant an overall higher quality. Unionisation would aost certainly do this, and probably attract a lot of talent to the industry which at the moment has a perception of being a bit of a sweat-shop.
>inb4 seppos get mad because hurrhhh socialism bad.
It must be sick having all unskilled labour done by underpayed Mexicans.
This is a situation in which a union might actually Beed good.
Americans are weird. Like battered wives, the people who stay in the industry for the long-term somehow convince themselves that the shitty scheduling and piss-poor project management is not only normal but necessary.
Sorry addendum, how do you EASILY pirate for consoles
>Would game devs unionizing be good for vidya or bad?
No. They would be more indocrinated by the left and push even more cultural marxism in videogames.
Every Union is basically meant to indocrinate workers into left bullshit.
americans are the worst form of cucks, unaware just how bad things are, while mocking people who have those rights they're quite happy to give up.
initially
then they will get in the way and make it far worst than what is currently happening.
>unions make anti-crunch rules
>game devs can no longer crunch
>projects either get given a reasonable amount of time, or deadlines are moved back, because "pull 60 hour weeks for 3 months to get this JUUUUST over the line enough to release" isn't an option
A win for gamers everywhere.
This will just result in Western game quality degrading even more in comparison to Japanese devs who are essentially modern day slave labor.
>indocrinate workers into left bullshit.
like decent pay, decent working hours, compensation for overtime, job stability and shit like that?
fucking hell, alt right retards like you are very much against your self interest.
Yeah, fuck workers' rights!
Nice strawman and name calling, leftards.
Get out and go back to plebbit, you aren't welcome here.
what wrong? want a safe space?
Dude unions fucking break cunts legs and shit so that their workers get paid a decent wage with good conditions. They don't give a fuck about social justice.
>Every Union is basically meant to indocrinate workers into left bullshit.
What the fuck are you even talking about, you teenage try-hard?
No doubt. That's what they always boil down to in the end. Game devs are between a rock and a hard place.
>Devs try to unionize
>Companies say "lolno"
>Fire decent devs and outsource to pooinloo and China instead
>Stuck with even worse quality cashgrab games
Thanks guys
>Hey what if the top men took salary cuts?
What if pigs could fly? Get real.
>No more crunch time
>Only three games a year are released with the new industry standard 7 years development time
>Indie games are now “Scab Games”
there is nothing stopping those devs that got fired from starting a new company.
To be honest, and I just thought about this, if Game development got unionized, then I could comfortably go back to chasing my old dream of being a game dev.
Sounds like a good reason to keep an eye on this,
Moron.
What shitty country do you live in where people get fired for joining a union?
Besides having to pay their bills like everyone else? I suppose not
>>Only three games a year are released with the new industry standard 7 years development time
Sounds like an opportunity for existing companies to expand their teams or new companies to form.
Supply increases to meet demand, retard. People want to buy just as many games as always, so more games will be made.
>but the companies can't afford to!
THEY'RE (clap)
MAKING (clap)
RECORD (clap)
PROFITS (clap)
Any country with decent labor laws (read: at-will employers).
Unions increase wages without any increase in productivity or skill.
They are nothing but bad news for any workplace.
well i dont fucking care, i really dont, i dont work on the industry and good game makers are gonna make good shit and bad ones are already making shit games
as long as the union doesn't include voice actors i'm for it
Some user in another thread said it was for only lead devs/directors/producers/voice actors.
Is it true?
As someone who has worked with abd without unions, it depends I guess. From what I've seen some companies need unions because the employees are payed like nothing and treated like garbage. Others, like the one I work at now try to avoid getting unions involved and just treat their employees really, really well to begin with. The labor unions around here are also all corrupt too, with every high ranking employee getting fired for embezzlement. So your union dues are all going to some rich fuck, and the union tells you to get over it if you have a problem an won't do anything.
t.Freight Industry
Yeah just think about how comfy life would be if we didn't have to work unproductive jobs in dead industries because they pay the bills.
apart from if you work there.
true
only buy indie games. don't give AAA pubs any money
God dammit. Unions work better for blue collar or labor intensive jobs. If the pay is shit, I hope they are ready for those union fees.
>shitty big business dev code monkeys thinking they matter
Face it, only the big names up top and successful indie devs matter.
What I Want to Happen
>studios don't get fucked over by publishers seeking to take huge profits out of their game
>investors can go fuck themselves and stop imposing strict deadlines, allowing studios to properly develop their games and stop this shitty trend of releasing broken titles and fixing them post launch
>EA not murdering another studio, or how Bethesda was a bitch and killed Prey 2 out of childish reasons
What Will Likely Happen
>FINALLY WE VOICE ACTORS GET THE PROPER PAY WE DESERVE!
>Shit indie devs abuse this as a platform to become even bigger faggots.
>Sounds like an opportunity for existing companies to expand their teams or new companies to form.
No, it just sounds like you are fucking retarded. Please, leave the thinking for people with an actual well-sized brain.
This is just happening now because UAW is bleeding members and got caught top union officails are using union dues to enrich themselves.
wsws.org
(one of the many union money laundering schemes)
>Voice actors
Dropped hard.
Gripping rebuttal, retard.
>customer normally buys 15 games
>company A's ability to produce 15 games is reduced to 7 games
>customer still wants to buy 15 games
>there is now a niche for company B to sell the customer 8 games
Grill yourself.
I just looked up what an 'at-will employment' law is. Holy shit is America really this bad? So you pretty much have no job security ever?
Also
>Unions increase wages without any increase in productivity or skill
Yeah sure man, that's why it takes like 18 months to become a lisenced tradesperson in the states, and still most of the work is done by illegal beaners.
>unions
Look at what polish Solidarnosc became and take a wild guess what the fuck I think about unions. Especially unions in fucking video game industry, which is a fucking joke.
>tfw my mom is in union only to be protected in case they wanted to fire her
>still not necessary because she is one of the best workers in whole region
t. useful idiot, fighting the good fight to keep wages low and CEO bonuses sky high.
Good goy!
Bad. Unions always improve shit for the workers at the expense of the consumers (company owners aren't gonna take the hit).
see
What this user said. Nothing is forcing companies to make a deal with these union people. Just kick them out and find somebody willing to do the job. Unions around here tend to do business in a shady way. They hang outside of the company and promise a lot of absurd things to employees and talk a lot of shit to get them all riled up like "You guys deserve $10 an hour more, the best benefits ever, and 30hr work weeks! We'll make sure you get that". So the retard workers get all hype and think if they sign on they'll immediately get all of these sweet union things just for signing a contract, when really all that happens is they start paying union dues while the union negotiates pay and benefits, which sometimes takes quite a while and can result in worse wages for employees in the long run. So really all around it's just a lot of shitty politics and wasted time, unless you work for a garbage company. Then it might be worth it I guess, but even then they could just easily fire you and hire cheap labor that doesn't want a union.
Look what they did to GM. Unions have there place but are mostly harmful to the business at hand.
On paper unions are a good thing (if you don't happen to own the company, which would be the vast minority of people anyway). In practice, it depends on the people managing it: it's very easy to delegate the union's power to a small group of selfish people that will use it for personal gains.
Definitely needs to happen. Even though graphics are getting increased priority for selling AAA games, artists are not getting pay raises appropriate to this increase in importance.
>fired for joining a union
this is illegal in the real world
>top men get salary cuts
>they now cannot reinvest their money in the economy and create jobs
leftist thinking
ITT: teenagers who believe CEOs are nice people, and are looking out for the hard workers, and unions are just out to take their shekles and give them to the shareholders.
>Indie games are now “Scab Games”
This is actually an alarming possibility, because of course unions work by trying whatever they can to make non-union labor unpopular.
Overall though it's a good development, game dev is one of the shittiest software industries to work in and it's nice to see an effort to push back against that. Especially considering how much fucking money the industry makes.
Illegals typically don't work skilled trade jobs because they aren't qualified. They do low skill manual labor jobs like landscaping and construction. Not like you would know since you don't even live here and are talking out of your ass
>t.commiefornia
scandinavia has super good salary because of union negotiations and great working conditions
inb4 fatmericans talking about muslim refugees
As someone who worked in the industry for 3 years, definitely needs to happens.
Can you show me one reputable economics paper that shows 'trickle down' effect actually occurs?
Bad, of course. Just imagine this shit going on.
>Eurogame gets developed on Poland.
>Eurodevs are self-entitled chumps who just finished their college studies.
>Boss tells them to work hard so their game can compete with others in the market.
>Eurodevs go on strike for 3 months.
>Eurodevs get back to work, get better conditions.
>Now they work for less time, which means another 3 months delay.
>Price gets higher so consummers will have to pay those eurodevs' self-entitlement.
Unions for the developers? Not even once.
Oh they don't fire you for joining a union, they fire you for some other infraction that they decide to overinflate because your union support is an issue.
can you show me one saying your magic money tree socialism works? Didn't think so, kid.
good. 3d industry and gamedev in general known for not giving a single fuck about workers.
It's been long overdue.
Working conditions in the AAA industry is abysmal with next to no job security. Even "Dude I'm making video games!" has a breaking point, publishers have been exploiting people's passion for too long.
I know a dude who owns a factory and he has no problem with unions. He just hates union bosses who he sees as social parasites and I can't blame him. If his workers want to band together and say "we want these conditions" that's fine, it's when outsiders stroll in, take the workers money and then tell them that their boss who wants to work with them is shit or that they should shutter the factory because some Indians are having a bad time that problems happen.
>reinvest their money in the economy and create jobs
Hey nigger, if they didn't have that money the workers would. Do you think the workers are more, or less, likely to spend it?
Protip: producing consumer goods creates more jobs than producing luxury goods, proportionally speaking. Consumer goods require high volume; luxury goods require low volume but high skill. The former generally needs more workers.
This is why petroleum is a massive employer worldwide despite being dirt cheap to buy, and why yacht building employs a fraction of a fraction of the world despite yachts being super expensive to make.
US worker laws are fucking pathetic. Why do you americucks put up with that shit?
I'm glad I have job security, guaranteed yearly weeks long paid vacations, don't do any overtime and have 45 min of lunch break every day. All of that on a good wage.
We've actually reached the point where western game development is much like the anime industry:
Anime studios get paid peanuts unless they make a hugely successfully show. To achieve this they rely heavily on famous VAs who make loads of money and don't put as nearly as much effort as the studio, yet the studio needs them to sell the show.
Western games now rely heavily on ecelebs for their ticket to making a huge hit. The studio gets paid shit, works against deadlines, and panders heavily to ecelebs who do nothing but play games and yet make more than what a developer who's actually putting effort can make. All this in the hopes that a few (hell, even one) of those attentionwhores plays the game and lets their audience know to buy it.
>WAAAAAAAAA WE CAN'T EXPLOIT OUR WORKERS ANYMORE is "harming business"
Go fuck yourself clueless kid
But unions are there just to take your money (most of the time)
>I want a job with your company
>BUT you can't fire me if I do something you don't like
>Also I want more money for the same amount of work and you need to give me it or else
>I don't care if I'm a lazy sack of shit and am not worth paying that much, my unskilled manual labor deserves MORE!
Typical union boi lmao. Go get some real skills then shitty jobs can't hurt your fee fees
Lawsuit.
a-at least we don't have socialized healthcare! i love being fucked in the ass by my hospital that only 0.01% of the population can afford!
I was just like you till I moved out of America.
Now I get 4 weeks paid vacation a year, a job considerably above min wage, free medical, dental, and I dont even have to negotiate my pay, it automaticaly rises whenever the min wage does by that amount, and I also automatically get 3-4% a year, negotiated by the union. If somehow anyone attacks me at work or I get blamed for a massive mistake, the union will also send lawyers to save me from living the rest of my life on cat food and crackers.
Get the hell out of America.
lol, hope you have a shit job with no benefits.
Imagine sucking this much corporate cock.
>REEEEEE WHY CAN'T I JUST TREAT WORKERS LIKE SHIT AND GET AWAY WITH IT
Because it's illegal ;)
And it's illegal because you're outvoted, richcuck, and when the time comes you'll be outgunned, too.
Then you'll be hanging up outside as a warning to the rest of your pals.
>in the real world
Aka socialist/communist shitholes.
But you (should) get a free lawyer when you need it and monetary support if you become jobless
Most of the time I've seen unions are a pretty useful
then again I'm from Finland
you may live in a paradise compared to me, but at least i don't have fucking brown people around me!
i'm sorry the way the real world works hurts your commie fee fees, look at what happened since trump came along and deregulated the economy, it's doing wonders, we're litrally experiencing a boom, stock market is on the rise, companies are opening jobs left and right
Work in Ag and have had a lot of talks with Idaho potato farmers about their illegal workers - that is a line of work I would consider unskilled. Construction is skilled dude, in developed countries you do education in a trade before working construction.
norway, sweden, finland and denmark being regularly in the top 5 places to live, raise kids and work.
all socialist democracies, all have high taxes with high government investment.
what now, tricklecuck?
>Find out I have an autoimmune disease a couple of years ago
>Goverment pays for the treatment and guarantees me medice for the rest of my life
>My american buddy had to go into debt because of a broken leg