Fighting games are one of the most unbalanced videogame genres in the market, if not the most: >On any other videogame both opponents have a 50/50 chance to win, with skill and experience tipping the scales towards the best player while still giving the other player the chance to win >Fighting games give 100-0 odds to the most experienced player; as soon as the match starts the veteran traps the newcomer / less experienced player into an infinite combo lock, with the victim being able to land a single hit during the entire match >They don't reward true skill. The experienced player just has years of practicing the same absurdly complex inputs, inputs that made sense back then due to arcade machines' archaic controllers, not now when special attacks can and should be mapped to single buttons.
It's not a controversial fact. I don't understand why everyone, from Sup Forums to the FGC reacts so violently when you point at the elephant in the room.
>On any other videogame both opponents have a 50/50 chance to win >the veteran traps the newcomer Nigger, what are you smoking? Of course the veteran will destroy the newcomer. Do you seriously think a noob has any chance of winning against a pro in say, Quake 3, or Brood War? Heck no. Fighting games (or button mashers as I like to call them) have different issues. Like characters being so drastically different from each other, any sort of balance goes out of the window with the rosters of that size. Also combos that rob the player on the receiving end of control over his character for seconds, and the only deciding factor being if the attacker makes an error in his combo or not.
Michael Russell
>Fighting games give 100-0 odds to the most experienced player >They don't reward true skill.
Did the person who wrote this even proofread what they wrote before posting?
What is true skill under their eyes instead? If skill isn't the result of countless hours of training and experience, then they better set out to define it.
That's like complaining that a seasoned boxer will mercilessly destroy a rookie who's never stepped into the ring, and then complain that Boxing doesn't reward real skill cause some soyboy virgin isn't able to beat up Mike Tyson.
>The experienced player just has years of practicing the same absurdly complex inputs, inputs that made sense back then due to arcade machines' archaic controllers, not now when special attacks can and should be mapped to single buttons.
But this isn't true at all. FighterZ and Smash Bros. have incredibly simple inputs. Moreover, combos mean fuck all if your neutral game and wake-up game suck dick. Combos are only there to maximize your damage output when you LAND a hit. You gotta be able to land that hit first though.
>Like characters being so drastically different from each other, any sort of balance goes out of the window with the rosters of that size. Perfectly balanced games are boring. Fight me on this.
>Also combos that rob the player on the receiving end of control over his character for seconds, and the only deciding factor being if the attacker makes an error in his combo or not. Most fighting games have countermeasures against Touch of Death combos. It's universally agreed upon that those aren't fun, but peoole still set put to try and discover them.
Andrew Gomez
>Fighting games give 100-0 odds to the most experienced player >They don't reward true skill.
>other videogames give both opponents a 50/50 chance to win, with experience and skills tipping the scales So it's not a 50/50. It's your first point and you already fucked up.
Tyler Barnes
Skill: being able to outsmart / surpass your opponent by using your brain, intellect, ability and experience. Not skill: being able to execute a "I win" sequence like a robot.
If fighting games got rid of those sequences, I'm pretty sure the average Joe would be able to put a fight against any EVO champion.
Not being 50/50 =/= 100/0. At most it's 99-1, but not an absolute. The rookie should always have a chance to win.
>If fighting games got rid of those sequences, I'm pretty sure the average Joe would be able to put a fight against any EVO champion. Games that allow that to happen are games that reward luck over skill. If this isn't a troll thread, then you're severly retarded. Fighting games literally fit your definition.
Michael Rivera
If you are using your brain, intellect, ability and experience, then why would you have problem executing the strong sequences?
So... You're saying that you'd be able to win against Mike Tyson if you stepped into the ring with him then?
Brayden Perez
Every single EVO champ will still beat you 100% of the time by performing 0 combos and using only a single button. You need a better hobby than making bait threads.
Leo Mitchell
>Skill: being able to outsmart / surpass your opponent by using your brain, intellect, ability and experience. so the thing you use in a fighting game? combo are 5% of a fighting game at best. Someone good will do 100/0 with doing only 1 hit combo against a shitter
>Not being 50/50 =/= 100/0. At most it's 99-1, but not an absolute. The rookie should always have a chance to win. Give me a single competitive game or sport that is 50/50, if both side are around the same level it is 50/50 if one side is experienced and the other not much it's 100/0
Camden Miller
>ability and experience.
Chase Johnson
>Not skill: being able to execute a "I win" sequence like a robot. >WAAAAH COMBOS >M...MUH EXECUTION BARRIER Wait a second, so you're telling me that all the bitching on Sup Forums against turn based games being shit because they don't require mechanical skills can finally be labelled as shitposting by people who don't play turn based games?
What is your definition of skill because I certainly don't understand what it is.
Also the reason so many people cry about fighting games being bad is because they are shit at them and unlike every other multiplayer game they can't blame their team. They destroy people with large egos and those who are insecure about their skill at video games.
Cooper Flores
Not an argument
Hunter Brooks
You faggots really need to stop pretending to be retarded, reading shit like this is embarrassing and not funny
IRL martial arts tournaments have rules. You can't simply pummel down your opponent nonstop.
Noah Morris
Crying Brian won an MvCI tournament recently. Proof that if you give a shit even someone like this, who obviously did care but went about it in a weird ass way can improve.
Brayden Baker
>make team-based game >my team is so bad!!
>make a 1v1 game >the game is unbalanced, it does not reflect true skills!!
Nigger is the appropriate pronoun for fighting game discussions.
Hudson Lewis
Fighting games have rules too.
He's probably lonely, in need of attention, and loves getting abused. Literally one step away from becoming a tripfag.
Logan Adams
That's how a majority of threads on Sup Forums are. Wanna get replies? Jut say something stupid
Luis Williams
>If fighting games got rid of those sequences, I'm pretty sure the average Joe would be able to put a fight against any EVO champion. Well, I guess you’re fucking retarded then. Street fighter 5 barely has any input barrier and yet the same people fill the top spots in every single tournament. Inputs are only a barrier at the very lowest level of play. Anyone can learn to do a “hard combo” with a few hours of practice. The real skill comes from learning the ins and outs of the game over thousands and thousands of hours of gameplay.
Jordan Robinson
yeah I love that he's still a serious player, and he didn't runaway and disappear after the corn video.
Hunter Smith
youre clearly never been into one
ive been into some taekwondo meetups and if the other participant got a drop on the other, a flurry of kicks will be coming in his way
8/10 bait, made me reply
Jackson Thomas
This is why i hate grapplers. The people that play them will bitch and moan all day long about their rule breaking arcetype being bad but as soon as you get touched by them once you might as well stop playing.
At this point FAB's skill with Pot can only be described as craftsmanship. He's truly a remarkable player.
Levi Bailey
Name one fighting game with banned characters at tournaments right now. They stopped putting unbalanced boss characters in games ages ago.
Jaxson White
You can’t do that in any competitively played fighting game either. Games with 100% combos don’t get competitive scenes unless you have multiple characters on a team. In order to lose in a competitive fighting game round you need to mis read your opponent AT LEAST 3 times (many more depending on the game).
>Perfectly balanced games are boring if it were possible to have perfect balance with mirrored and asymmetrical maps, and a variety of characters/classes/styles, then it would be fun. the problem is that a dev cant think of everything, exploits will be found. the only way we have perfect balance now is in games where everyone is identical, which isnt as fun
Thomas Ramirez
4 is a better counter example for OP's particular retarded argument. There's many high level matches that are primarily footsies based, between a large variety of characters.
5 you can make the argument that it's combo and pressure heavy and thus doesn't give as much opportunity for the worse player to showcase their skill since you spend more time in a must-defend or being-combo'd state.
I know these aren't answers you're looking for and don't really meet the spirit of the question but people still play ST, and even further outside of the spirit of the question, you can sometimes find streams of Japanese 'low tier' MVC2 tournaments, where the top 6 are banned.
Adrian Hughes
Sounds like you're the one bitching and moaning, amigo
Lucas King
>The rookie should always have a chance to win. like how i have a chance to win the world cup solo if every other player suddenly looses their legs. there's a nonzero chance that can happen that means its balanced, right?
Jacob Reed
Except combos is SF4 are much harder to execute with shit like one frame links and FADCing.
Combos in street fighter 5 are so fucking easy any retard could perform them. Either way, both games have consistent high ranking players (as do all fighting games).
It’s almost as if the difficulty of execution has absolutely nothing to do with high level play.
Gabriel Hernandez
this thread is so god awful, op does not even know the definition of skill. also, we had this exact thread a few days ago. stop replying
Hey, uhmmmm..... AssAssassin69 don't talk to me. But thanks.
Daniel Perez
Discounting Brawl and the obvious Meta Knight.
Smash 4 has banned Cloud in doubles.
John Perry
>100-0 >infinite combo lock Both of these points you made are logical fallacies and are not sound arguments for why fighting games are bad. Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.
Jaxson Lee
I said fighting game.
Lucas Morales
Git gud nigga
Samuel Hughes
fireball spam beats bad grapplers 100% of the time
Zachary Miller
Chess is probably the most balanced game ever. At it too has inbalace, with white always having the advantage over black.
Perfectly balanced games are boring.
Ayden Allen
Sure but it's not the difficulty of combos OP is whining about, it's the existence of combos and how they somehow negate every other skill that isn't executing combos. SFV more heavily features combos than SF4, even 4 at the highest level of play doesn't regularly have 10+ hit combos, only a few characters could get that shit all the time.
Jonathan Collins
I am just here for the webms
>inb4 not a fighting game
Shit too late. Of course OP would use that argument and ignore the previous answer since he's only here to think he's winning some internet debate and trolling people
Juan Fisher
And those are fighting games friend-o.
Granted, they're not very great competitively. They're still fighting games though.
Brody James
>Did the person who wrote this even proofread Its obvious they just rage-quit some game and now they're venting.
You’re a fucking retard. Fighting games are pretty much universally accepted to be primarily about “reading” your opponent. That is: predicting their movements and responding accordingly. Anyone who plays one of these games for a dozen or so hours can do the combos they need for their character. The rest is about learning the way the game is played.
If I played a world champion soccer player at soccer I would get my ass handed to me. Same goes for Tennis, Chess, Igo, Star Craft, real martial arts, Quake, Pokémon or literally any other 1V1 game that isn’t luck based. In fact, the only sort of game I’d even have a chance of winning is something with a heavy luck element like Hearthstone. Even then the champion would probably beat me in 9 games out of 10.
Sebastian Green
Don’t worry OP, FighterZ proved that interest in fighting games are dying and soon enough they will be a relic of the past. No one is autistic enough for them anymore.
Easton Watson
Is this gameplay or a cutscene?
Brandon Wright
experience beating noobs? hot damn you don't say!! somebody call the newspapers experience wins over inexperience, who would have thought? WHO KNEW SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Shit what do you want, yeah some people still play ST and it has akuma, yeah some people still play 3S and it has Gill, but they aren't at big tourneys. Also I guess japanese amateur mvc2 tournaments might ban popular characters, but I've never seen that before at a tournament.
Banning characters in fighting games at tournaments still isn't really a thing anymore, since they don't put unbalanced characters in them as fanservice. They started taking them seriously, and now the boss characters are even balanced. Seth is a great example of this movement forward.
Chase Russell
>as soon as the match starts the veteran traps the newcomer / less experienced player into an infinite combo lock I know, I'll go on Sup Forums and portray my opinion on this genre as well-researched fact despite it being extremely evident that I have no idea what's going on in this genre!
a game's shitty balance and it not being competitive does not change its genre
Brayden Williams
That's not a combo, dipshit, they tech out and get hit by another air throw.
Brody Robinson
>If fighting games got rid of those sequences, I'm pretty sure the average Joe would be able to put a fight against any EVO champion.
You have no clue... Zero clue.
Noah Smith
>moving the goalposts But of course.
Josiah Rodriguez
what do you think about dive kick ?
Levi Wood
>post something retarded >everyone explains to you why it is retarded >haha you guys got trolled! I was just pretending to be a retard! What a great use of my free time. Calling it now
That's why niggers and idiots soyboys like it: >it's fighting aka straight up beating someone in 1v1 >you get wins by learning one thing and mastering it, you don't need tactics against 99% people >it's played locally mostly so if you are big nig you can beat your opponent if he wins
Liam Cox
>SFV more heavily features combos than SF4 Holy shit, user, you are a fucking moron.
High level play in SFIV relied extremely heavily on difficult links and option-selects to get to the point where you could start playing with your opponent's mindset. One of the most basic decisions early on in V's development was to remove this focus on difficult combos and tech, simplify and shorten combos to a large degree, and open up the mindgames to players of any level.
Whether or not this worked out well is up to interpretation (it didn't, the game is shit), but there's no arguing that SFIV was far more focused on combos and execution than SFV
Connor Wilson
you know if you picked up a controller instead of mashing these out on the keyboard you might actually have learned a few combos by now
Jordan Thomas
You don't understand at all. He means people who have played for a year nothing else than fighters will shitslap you the fuck out meaning it's meaningless to even fight them making the game boring af. It's kind of like F1, nothing fucking interesting happens unless it's by accident.
Tyler Long
They never moved, read the post again and stop complaining. I don't care if you set up a tournament in your house and say "no dhalsim," doesn't skirt around my statement. Your only respite is smash, and I'm glad you didn't use it since it's not a fighting game.
Leo Morris
>holding back is a complex input Why do new players have such trouble getting this?
Owen Miller
sounds like you've been on se jive ass taekwondo shitfest, the referee should stop it after the other guy stops defending/not getting out of the situation aka he lost and now just taking a beating.
Samuel Cox
Kinda wish I could find some video of the low tier mvc2 tournaments, it's a pretty refreshing looking game when you actually get to see the rest of its gigantic fucking cast.
Are you sure you can read? I didn't say the combos in V were harder. Fuck, I specifically said the difficulty was irrelevant, then talked about how you will see combos more often because hits lead to combos in V, while hits in 4 are often just footsies, and a lot of damage is done in a neutral state rather than in combos.
Again, to hopefully make sure you actually read it, and I'll put it on its own line this time:
I am not talking about combo difficulty, but about the prevalence of combos as the source of damage in high level play between 4 and V.
John Evans
>as soon as the match starts the veteran traps the newcomer / less experienced player into an infinite combo lock, with the victim being able to land a single hit during the entire match
there is not a single game like this you literal retard. At least not one that anyone takes seriously.
MvC3 is the closest thing that can come to it, but you have 3 characters there, so infiniting one is still only 1/3 of the entire health, not to mention that it keeps getting gradually more difficult to keep up an infinite.
>They don't reward true skill. The experienced player just has years of practicing the same absurdly complex inputs, inputs learning the inputs is only the most basic part of competetive fighting. You can learn the longest combos, you still won't be able to land a single hit on a better player, because he reacts to your moves faster and with better choices, executes the better moves just when he gets into range, or reads your predictable moves like an open book.
And Smash is a fighting game, just not fun to play at high level
Joshua Williams
Sounds like you suck nigga
Logan Smith
>not enjoying getting gud and shitslapping the guy who used to body you back after practicing sounds like baby bitch talk to me, stick to instant gratification cinematic garbage and team games
