I didn't mean to hurt anybody

I didn't mean to hurt anybody

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No one ever does, Walker

What are you fighting for?

doesn't the game force you to do it then tells you why did you do it and makes you feel fake bad?

>dude just turn off the game lmao
I wish I did

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well playing the game is completely optional

Well the concept is to stop playing would be the other choice.

>Walker goes through the 5 stages of grief during the ending

Kind of, yeah.
They claim that forcing you to do this, and then berating you for it is so you feel a bit like Walker. He felt he didn't have options, and you don't playing it. So if someone gets mad at the game for it, then the devs succeeded.

Yes, but Walker isn't the player
When "Konrad" says 'You could have stopped', Walker could have stopped. At any point in the story, Walker could have just turned around and followed the original plan. "YOU" couldn't, because you bought the game and want an experience out of it. You shouldn't feel that Walker's a self-insert, and I think that's one of the problems with Spec Ops is that it doesn't distinguish the player character from the player

YOU FUCKED UP MY FACE

I've found that the more profound (albeit probably unintentional) interpretation of this is not so much that you can always "stop playing" the game, so you can say you did have a choice, but rather...

We so readily accept that using it is required to progress and that it shouldn't have any impact BECAUSE the game can't be progressed without doing so. That people say to themselves and others: "We did bad thing, but we were forced to do so to continue doing what we wanted to, so it's ok." That the only alternative (to stop playing) is considered so ridiculous an idea that it's even made known in the ending (when Konrad says "None of this would have happened if you'd just stopped. But on you marched.")

jesus

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>DUDE PTSD, WHAT IF UNRELIABLE NARRATOR AND YOU NOT SO GOOD GUY BUT BAD GUY, OH AND OPEN ENDING
One of the most overrated games ever.
Gameplay is shit, and the story is waaaaaaaay to ambitious for what it achieves.
This kind of tricks works in 90 minutes movies a la Fight Club, not in a shooter video game.

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So is refunding and not buying it, since the devs clearly don't want me to play it.
Brilliant marketing strategy, the game that tells you fuck you for playing!

I think the muddying of the player and character is intentional. Yeah, Konrad tells WALKER that he could have turned around and stopped at any point, but he is speaking as much to the player as he is Walker, just the same as Walker's actions are the player's actions.

Walker is just data that coalesces into a visual representation of a fictional person. The player's actions are what control everything he did, and they are free to stop playing at any point. That the players are so eager to get their "experience" that they "paid for" that they justify the actions needed and even dismiss the arguments against as ridiculous is what I feel the real point is.

It's all just a game, after all.

Such a profound and well written video game story that will be remembered for years to come, its just a shame the gameplay is so mediocre

No one is saying you can't or shouldn't play the game, just that you accept that you're using the desire to play to justify and excuse the actions you perform during.

>[Denial] You did this
>[Anger] How?!
>[Bargaining] What happened here was out of my control
>[Bargaining] This isn't my fault
>[Depression] I'm here because you can't accept what you've done. It broke you.
>[Acceptance] You needed someone to blame, so you cast it on me: a dead man. I know the truth is hard to hear, Walker, but it's time. You're all that's left, and we can't live this lie forever.
I'll buy it

I hate how people dislike Spec ops because of little things, you guys do understand that it is still one of the most creative shooters out there, right?
By nitpicking shit and hating it to be a contraioan you say to studios "PLEASE DONT MAKE CREATIVE THOUGHT OUT GAMES MAKE MORE CAWA DUTY I WANT MORE THAT AND NOT THING THAT MAKE ME THINK!"

Would Bambi's mother NOT have been shot if I had walked out of the theater before the scene?

Yet people over here seem to despise Bioshock Infinite REALLY FUCKING HARD, despite it having a pretty similar but way better story.
Really makes you think.

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>I think the muddying of the player and character is intentional. Yeah, Konrad tells WALKER that he could have turned around and stopped at any point, but he is speaking as much to the player as he is Walker, just the same as Walker's actions are the player's actions.
Absolutely, this is why I think that Spec Ops is ultimately a product of its time, and it can't be appropriately assessed outside of that time. Spec Ops was probably the only game released in the early 2010s that accurately saw war as a horrible occurrence, and sought to impress that on the player

Actually, I think he was specifically referring to the "showdown" sequence immediately after the lines you're quoting. Where Konrad literally counts from 1 to 5, and Walker undergoes the corresponding stage of grief in his response to each number.

Pull your head out of your ass
Like, zomg I killed all those fictional people, I'm such a monster

Yes, it is specifically during the countdown that the sentences Walker speaks correspond to the stage of grief

Feels good to never have touched this rotten sack of shit for a game

>All Americans, especially WHITE MALE Americans are EVIL.
wow deep game

Yes because it is shit to be white.

Oh shit that's what was being talked about, I was thinking more generally. But yeah, that makes sense

Did anyone ever notice in the scene where he has this realization, there's moments where the Conrad he's talking to will disappear, but his voice retains, and it's Walker's mouth moving in sync with what Conrad is saying

It's easy to justify your actions to yourself with a desire to do or continue doing something you enjoy. It just so happens that in this case, it's a videogame that doesn't harm anyone.

>The US military does not condone the killing of unarmed combatants. But this isn't real, so why should you care?
That line kind of fucked me up.

kino

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During the ending, in the mirror scene where conrad is about to shoot you, you can see Walker quickly pointing the gun at himself and pulling the trigger

You control the mirror scene user.

I'm a fan of the one about killing. Goes something like "To kill for yourself is murder. To kill for the government is noble. To kill for entertainment is harmless."

They never specify what kind of "entertainment." One would reasonably assume they mean videogames, like the one you've been playing for hours (since it only occurs in the final two or three chapters), but still... they don't specify.

And that's supposed to be profound?
Hedonism's a pretty old concept.
I think it's pretty silly people need a video game to teach them war is bad and people are selfish.

I'm not doing a meme when I say this game is reddit.

I worded that awkwardly, I'm talking specifically about this youtu.be/lauUirttVhs?t=4m39s

After Konrad's countdown gets to three, you can choose where Walker is aiming. Aiming at himself shows him putting the gun to his chin, and firing at that point will give the same result as if Konrad finished his countdown.

So many tween armchair philosophers in this threat.
Is Sup Forums really that young?

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I don't think so, feels bretty gud.

>>I think it's pretty silly people need a video game to teach them war is bad and people are selfish.

Not that I think the game does a good job of that necessarily, but when have people ever truly learned that war is bad and people are selfish, much less themselves?

I still don't really get this games ending, when you reach the tower and the last platoon of the 44th surrenders to you were they real or an illusion?
Why were all the American soldiers hostile? Did they know Conrad was dead? Did they think he was still alive and nobody checked to see of he was okay?
The insurgents you fight a few times in the game, were they also enemies of the US soldiers?
Was the DJ the unofficial leader of the US forces since he seemed to know Conrad was dead?
The CIA operatives wanted to kill all the soldiers and refugees of thirst? Why?
All this is probably easy to understand but I can only recall bits and pieces of when I played it.

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>walkers trigger dicipline changes half way through the game
Its the subtle things that makes this game so great

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t. nigger

Eh fair enough

The soldiers in the tower were a hallucination. You can see proof of that if you get the ending where Walker lives.

Americans were hostile because they don't know you're coming in, and especially because you shoot first. There's even dialogue with Adams and Lugo about this, but Walker dismisses it as the soldiers going rogue.

Not sure if they knew Konrad was dead, but it seems like it's probable. The 33rd seemed like they were doing what they could to maintain some degree of order.

Insurgents were probably just people from Dubai that got sick of the Americans holding them in there like they seemed to be doing. Possibly just a plot device to give the 33rd reason to be corralling them that then gives Walker the idea to stop them.

DJ definitely led the soldiers throughout the game, keeping them on your tail. It's possible that he was the de facto leader due to his sound system.

CIA wanted everyone in Dubai dead to cover up the US's involvement in the whole debacle, with the 33rd and all of that.

>2018
>people still self insert to this guy

This game gets too much shit, I think you need to play it with no expectations to appreciate it. I thought it would be generic third-person shooter #4256367 but I was pleasantly surprised by what turned out to be an entertaining psychological thriller. Retards complaining that the game blames you for things you were forced to do are missing the point. Keep in mind that it was intentionally marketed towards dudebros as a generic shooter, it was trying to make them aware that the hero fantasy provided by generic shooters is not the reality of warfare. It isn't literally calling you a bad person for playing their game.

>*knee cap an enemy and then shoot him in the head*

"KILL IS FUCKING CONFIRMED"

i'll break some of it down it down for you:
>Why were all the American soldiers hostile?
the ones with the civilians were the remaining Exiles trying to legit help. they mistake you for more CIA operatives trying to kill them so they open fire on you. the others are the Damned who are all batshit crazy.
>Was the DJ the unofficial leader of the US forces since he seemed to know Conrad was dead?
he was an ebedded reporter who got close to knorad and lost his shit after konran offed himself. the damned kinda sort view him as konra'd 'second in command' but really just let him hang out because he's the eyes and ears of the city.
>he CIA operatives wanted to kill all the soldiers and refugees of thirst? Why?
to cover up the whole mess so the afterwards the middle east region wouldn't find out abotu the atrocities committed and start a war america would lose in the game.

BASED SOLDIER OF FREEDOM USA USA USA USA USA USA

Holy shit you can't be this retarded

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Maybe you should have quit and uninstalled it like I did, warmonger.

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HE KILLED MILLIONS

He knew it was over

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He killed dozens but it was all Konrad's fault