I've heard that Wizardry 4 is the hardest RPG ever. Is this true?

I've heard that Wizardry 4 is the hardest RPG ever. Is this true?

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OP, if you have not, play Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land. You will not regret it.

>Roe R. Adams
who tf names their kid Roe?

Nah that's pokemon red with a party of metapod.

I nicknamed Metapod "my dick" cuz it knows Harden and String Shot, lol.

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I miss when games gave fuck you´s to the player
Well now they do but with season passes and having no content

No one on Sup Forums plays hard games so they can't make a comparison. You'd need to ask some dude that has been playing dungeon crawlers all the way back since their origins. What would such a person be doing on here?

Didn't wizardry 4 have a "true" ending that required getting all the way to the end of the game, moving to a very specific spot, then teleporting straight down through the ground for a specific amount of floors to reach an otherwise unreachable room?

Everything I've heard about this series just makes it seem so unfun to play, and I grew up playing games in the NES/DOS era, so I'm used to dumb bullshit. But from all I know, Wizardry 4 has a special place in the bullshit olympics for video games.

As I heard the game was designed for people that had mastered Wizardry 1-3. The company labeled how challenging their games. Wizardry 4 was rated 'expert'. That's not expert by today's standards but by the standards of people when dungeon crawlers were at the peak of difficulty and there were no such things as casual gamers.

I just checked, and there isn't even a TAS of this game on TASVideos. The game is so bullshit that people don't want to speedrun it while being able to manipulate luck. Wizardry 1-3 and 5 are all there.

>there were no such things as casual gamers.
That's bullshit and anyone alive at the time knew it. There just wasn't a term for it. There just weren't as many options for them back then. But yeah, DRPGs were a whole different ballgame back then. Problem is half of it was from lack of quailty of life or good interfaces, or from just serious lack of testing for some games.

That piece is beautifully written, and too good to be wasted on Sup Forums.

yeah should be on reddit instead

>That's bullshit and anyone alive at the time knew it. There just wasn't a term for it.

I lived through that

>There just weren't as many options for them back then.
Which is why there weren't casual gamers because they would have nothing to satiate themself.

arcade games?
Everyone knew what pong and pacman were

I think we've reached the point where reddit, and every other website on the internet, is a better place on than Sup Forums. Just look at the front page of this board at any given time.

It has nothing on Bloodborne.

Yes Sup Forums sucks thats why Im here
Really though your self deprecating bs is not amusing

Mario, Kirby, basic stuff. There were games, they just didn't beat many games or buy a bunch like 'hardcore' gamers did. But they did exist. Also that was the age of so many brand related games that people would buy just because it was marketed at whatever store/movie/etc. the game was pushing. Those games weren't easy to beat either, but that was mostly due to them just being absolute shit.

Yes. The closest are probably the other Wizardry games, especially the PC versions.

Bloodborne isn't even as hard as Gothic 2.

Geeze. Where to begin with your shitty post.

First of all something knowing what a game is does not mean the game "isn't hardcore". Second arcades were the place for the most hardcore action games (they far surpassed console games in challenge). No arcade had Pong LOL. Second pacman would be considered a hardcore (if completely out of date game), it had scarce lives and demanded reflexes, although again that's not indicative of arcade gaming at once you get past the year 1984.

I can't imagine how you could end up with such a warped view of gaming.

Honestly if Sup Forums started admitting that reddit was the better site they might start improving. All you'd need to prove it is to look at the front pages of both websites. Reddit at least discusses games.

nigga arcade games were the hardest shit EVER

Wizardry in general wants to rip your nuts off

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Going in without knowing anything, yes. If you have a walkthrough, it is pretty easy.

yes
it literally says on the box it's for advanced wizardry players only
in fact you can't leave the very first room unless you know to summon priests which will cast their light spell in the first encounter and reveal a hidden door for you

>But from all I know, Wizardry 4 has a special place in the bullshit olympics for video games.

Yeah, but they were making the game for a specific niche of people who wanted that experience. They didn't need to make a game accessible so they could hit 5 million sales just to break even. The game has a legendary status because that small niche was passionate and kept the legacy alive, but it wasn't ever intended for mass consumption the way even hard NES games were.

>beliving Sup Forums memes that newfags took seriously
>thinking a oc-theving hugbox like reddit is better than Sup Forums, which has diamonds in it's pile of shit.
wew

wizardry 2 is a brutally hard game but its not even close to 4

Why even bother with games like this?

sounds like RNG the series

You aren't a casual, are you?

The game was made to be bullshit. It is artificial difficulty in its purest form.
They made it for neckbeards that had claimed the earlier games were "easy" because they were willing to spend hours on end grinding.

what? its not at all easy with a walkthrough, all that would accomplish is giving you maps, which are a nightmare to get through whether you know the exact path or not. you still have to deal with the ludicrously unfair respawning enemies

Sounds like a shitty game that relies too much on taking control away from the player to seem difficult.
Ironically wrpg fags will tell you this was better than games that came out after it.

for what its worth the samurai, pilgor, would decimate most of those enemies in a single turn

The point where you could find a decent post buried in the shit on Sup Forums ended about 12 years ago. Now we just come for the shit.

Despite any regulation reddit has they still discuss gaming more.

I love posts like this where some wiseguy who has never played the game or anything like it decides to weigh on it when the only image he gets is from a fucking copy-paste meme.

It's an impressive level of stupidity.

This kind of thing makes me wonder why even modern indie devs can't make the broken bullshit that is 90s era adventure games

Making an adventure game would require pixel that doesn't suck dick. And high res pixel art at that. You can count the number of indies that meet that qualification on one hand.

there, you're welcome

So is this supposed to prove my point? Discussing ads is not discussing games.

>Pixel art that doesn't suck dick
I'm at a loss at wondering how you need pixel art for walls of text and the basic of graphics showing where you are.

nobody would play them

>unironically calling rpgs "wrpgs"
stick to your watered down jap adventure games designed for children buddy

>those descriptions
>those NUMBERS
Jesus fuck, I thought thought the last stretch of SaGa 2 was bad with random encounters. This is an extra layer of bullshit. Might as well just label it 15 Final Bosses.

It's as hard as it is not fun.

>video games ads are not video games
hello retard-kun- and anyway, "Sup Forums disscusses on games" was a joke before newfags took it seriously.

90s era adventure games, which is what you are talking about had some of the best 2D art outside of fighting games dude.

Throb of the Demon Heart is Wizardry Gaiden IV, the nips remade Return of Werdna for PS1.

I would love to see this bullshit first hand.

lparchive.org/Wizardry-IV/

Ah, just like the last DOOM floppy.

Some people enjoy planning their dungeon raids down to every single last detail and then seeing their plan come to life once they actually play the game. Wizardry is designed for those people, and it does what it does better than any of its countless rip-offs.

Wizardry 4 was made specifically to test how much RPG gamers could deal with. They literally did it as a response to all the basement dwellers who said that Wizardry 1, 2, and 3 were "easy" and tried to act like badasses because they could beat them. Wizardry 4 was Sir Tech (the devs) going "You think that's 'easy'? Then try to beat THIS."

Yes now play through VI & VII

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How dare gamers ask for more difficult games!

you could put any effort into saying why the copypasta is wrong or where it lies to us, but that would make people stop thinking it's an rng-fest that thinks player agency is optional, wouldn't it? can't have that or you might not have any anonymous street cred. might as well call people niggers on the internet

because it's fun

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>hey i wonder why people don't make 90s-difficulty adventure games anymore
>well they can't get away with the difficulty because muh graphics
???

>I think we've reached the point where reddit, and every other website on the internet, is a better place on than Sup Forums.

No we haven't, but you're welcomed to go back.

difficulty is on a sliding scale linked to the decade
hope you like kiddie shit until you die

How's six?

Is Wizardy one of those games where you have to break it before it breaks you?

even following a made map is nearly impossible too with the tools given to you

For an unwarranted sense of superiority over people like you. Same reason Soulsborne is popular on here. See

i own Wizardry 6 7 and 8. can i just skip right to 8? no story shared between them like Final Fantasy, right?

Yeah dude. People in the 80s tracked down and played difficult computer games so that 30 years later they could earn e-credit on Sup Forums with manchildren. That's the only reason anyone plays anything difficult. Certainly not because they enjoy themself (only easy games are enjoyable!).

>limited number of keystrokes to beat the game
>even invalid ones count

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>I would love to see this bullshit first hand.
Here's a taste.

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You can import your party from 6 all the way to 8, and in 8 the beginning changes depending on the ending you get in 7.

you'll be missing out on some lore & some info on NPC's but other then that you should be fine,also no diamond ring

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I want you to remember Wizardy 1 is like a baby's toy compared to Wizardy 4.

fuck. uggghhh. thats gotta be like 40 hours in 6 and 7. i really dont feel like learning the controls but my autism means i need the complete story of a series

Anybody got the summary of this map? It's so gloriously, monomaniacally evil.

I'm ooold and played all this shit when it was new.

Wizardry 4 was irritating as fuck and required you to know obscure stuff from the earlier games to reach an ending. It was dumb and not a good game. But when you died you just reloaded and tried again.

In the first Wizardry, your party could be easily wiped by a chance encounter and the game would autosave them at the bottom of the dungeon. You have to level up a whole new party or use a cheat disk to get them back. It was NUTS.

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Given how primitive programming was back than it sounds like logging keystrokes was simply the best way of having a time limit.

Composed of 16 basic 4x4 clusters (of which there are 4 types, arranged horizontally) surrounded by corridors with a spinner at every intersection, B6F is basically a one-trick floor. But it is a very cruel trick. As you might know, spinners are the worst enemy of a dungeon cartographer, alongside hidden teleporters and shifting walls. The main reason they are so bad is that they always catch you off-guard, and it is only post factum that you can even learn there is, or rather was, one in your way. Many a dungeon crawler would find herself walking down a seemingly linear corridor only to discover she's back to where she started from, or worse, be tricked into thinking she's making progress when in fact moving in circles within the confines of a single room. The way spinners work in Wizardry 4 only makes the matter worse. There is no message or sound signal to tell you you've been spun around, nor any spinning animation or change in the surroundings to indicate you are now facing a different direction. On the contrary, every four-way intersection is designed in such a way as to make you see exactly the same picture no matter the direction you're facing, leaving you without any visual clue:

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There's a keystroke limit AND a time limit.

That's a logical and reasonable interpretation but the game already had a real-time limit in the form of the ghost of Trebor. They could have definitely programmed in another hard time limit if they wanted to; the keystroke thing was just a different dimension of dickishness they wanted to explore.

>There is no message or sound signal to tell you you've been spun around, nor any spinning animation or change in the surroundings to indicate you are now facing a different direction.
Fucking brutal.

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It's not nearly as hard as they're making it sound

Did I mention the game didn't come with a map, and all maps are hand drawn by people who came later?

Isn't Trebor a micro time limit, limited to local areas and the key stroke a macro time limit, about the whole game?

no he stalk's you throughout the game

Are there any modern Wizardry-likes worth playing?

Originally Trebor moved in real time to stalk you so you couldn't linger on a floor for too long. From what I remember later versions of Wiz 4 changed Trebor to move based on key strokes. Saving reset his position but it also respawned all the monsters on the floor. In general the later versions made it a bit easier with extended inventory, more control over Werdna's monsters, and some of the more bullshit puzzles cut out but it is still extremely hard.

Dark Spire is pretty good. Japanese first person dungeon crawler made by westaboos. Even has a "classic" mode that makes it look like the Also the music great. There is actually two soundtracks as the retro mode changes all the music.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXedqHyWNY

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You never tried Pen and Paper RPGs have you? Wizardry is just a straight up computerized version of it.

You’re not supposed to get too upset when you die in PnP, luck of the dice is the fun of a game. And feeling you beat an epic campaign is the fun.

Etrian Odyssey is alright if you can stand that amount of weeb and drawing the maps by hand.

Demon Gaze is you're an actual weeb.

There's a Wizardry game for PS2 that's ballin iirc.

>tfw a lot of modern dungeon crawlers has real time combat when I prefer turn based

Legend of Grimrock was so close to being the game I was looking for.

You eventually get an item that prevents thiefs from stealing your quest items in Wiz4

But everything else yeah

>You’re not supposed to get too upset when you die in PnP, luck of the dice is the fun of a game. And feeling you beat an epic campaign is the fun.

So actually finishing a game is more of an added bonus of fun rather than an expected goal to have?

I guess I can see why some would be into that.

Class of Heroes on PSP

It even uses a d20 instead of the usual 100% for chance mechanics.

>Game requires you to find a secret area by going behind an elevator, walking in a certain direction, and then searching for something, and using your teleport spell in this specific hidden location, to a floor that shouldn't exist(that only works here), and the only hint are a series of cryptic messages mentioned by a wandering NPC who you have to pay to get this info, who you may only meet a handful of times, to find the final area
>Game requires you to read a specific book about Jewish mysticism that the dev read to know what the fuck the final riddle is talking about, which again you can only know if you somehow decipher the cryptic shit mentioned by a randomly appearing NPC and in case you are lucky enough he mentions it, to get the true ending, which is also fedora tipper-tier
How did people even decipher this shit

Dungeon Travelers is alright if you can tolerate (or enjoy) the insane amount of fanservice.

Tracking down clues and solving riddles is fun.

Try the PS3 Wizardry entry to get a feel for the series

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