Let's be realistic: AMD's in debt dept, and its been going down a long downward spiral financially. The company is eventually to be bought out.
WHEN that happens, what happens to the industry?
Anti-monopoly laws aren't going to come into effect because both nVidia and Intel still have Intel and any company making ARM processors as competitors, respectively.
I honestly don't see Intel price gouging as actually happening - it's in their best interests to keep prices low so the desktop platform stays alive. They're already having trouble competing with new platforms, why make it worse? They'll definitely have more control over the platform when AMD dies, so positive things MIGHT actually happen to the desktop/laptop platform. Of course, the enthusiast/high end side of things is going to be ridiculously expensive, but the mainstream might actually get cheaper.
I can maybe see nvidia jacking up prices because discrete GPUs are a luxury item and gamers need their fix, but in the long term that would hammer the nail in pre-built PC GPU use's coffin, which accounts for significant portion of their business.
Maybe whoever buys out AMD will actually want to compete in those markets instead of just for assets/patents. That could make for an interesting turn of events.
Anyone have any thoughts? Like I said, I SERIOUSLY doubt government intervention will effect intel/nvidia, they still have competitors in the form of each other, and anyone who does ARM.
VIA and PowerVR still do exist, and aren't doing that bad for themselves.
Also, little known fact is nvidia has a chip that can run x86 code, quite well infact. It's in the nexus 9.
Henry King
i dont see any engrish
Brody Green
What's wrong with the english? Is there a grammar mistake bothering you?
Zachary Brooks
whoever buys amd, video card department will be sold separately since it actually makes money for amd.
Easton Baker
>it's 3dfx all over again
Colton Nguyen
The Radeon department will be sold separately probably, because there's a lot of legal shit I don't quite understand with x86 rights for AMD not being transferrable if they're bought out or something. My guess is Samsung would buy them because they want their engineers and IP for mobile chipsets/GPUs. It was literally made to happen. AMD names their architectures after stars, what is made of stars? The Galaxy R (for Radeon) GPU!
Caleb Cox
AMD names their architectures after islands you retard
Mason Ross
>Polaris >Vega >islands
Jackson Cooper
>islands what is brisbane
Jordan Taylor
AMD actually sold their mobile GPU department to Qualcomm AGES ago.
Adreno = rAdeon
AMD doesn't have any useful assets as far as low power platforms ago, they're between 2-4 years behind everyone else.
I suspect samsung is interested in purchasing AMD for the patents and assets, or having a motorola/lenovo arrangement
Noah Morgan
the x86 license is non-transferable
its likely intel will just license out some other company, perhaps samsung or renew VIA's license
Lucas Murphy
I can't see it making a shit of difference, the only places where AMD is truly competitive with Intel are the smallest markets with the shittiest profit margins like gayming and low-end consumer shitboxes, Intel already pretty much controls the bulk-order enterprise sector, most mid-range and above OEM systems, and most laptops.
Blake Lewis
The 480 is actually being hallmarked as hands down the best GPU mining card to come out yet, and will soon start getting bought out all over and AMD is going to make huge bank.
R9 480 is basically a GPU miners wet dream. Great hashrate and low power consumption, but high supply.
AMD also expected this and I wouldn't be surprised if hashers are their target audience, since a single miner will often by 30-50 cards for one rig.
So reportedly the 480 will have about 25x the supply of previous cards to handle the incoming demand (there are already miners stating they have dozens of 480s on preorder/order right now)
AMD is going to make fucking bank off off this, the 480 was a mining card.
The 490 will be the gaming card.
Levi Morgan
What I meant is that Samsung would prioritize having AMD's engineers work on mobile. Raja Koduri was at Apple working on powering their "retina" shit before AMD, so the skill set is there at AMD to work on mobile devices.
>mining with GPUs >miners being a significant share of consumers derp derp
Easton Parker
The best city on a very large island.
Robert Rodriguez
But each miner buys a lot of GPUs. Miners can make stock issues significantly worse with how many GPUs they buy.
Carson Murphy
the skill set is definitely not there
those engineers can''t magically go from having their expertise be in a 30-300 watt range to have to work with sub 15 watts.
Technical expertise does not work that way.
Camden Phillips
They can make stock issues a problem at launch, sure. But thats because they buy them all at the same retailer at once, not because they account for significant share of the market.
They account for less than 1% of sales.
Plus, NOBODY uses GPU's for mining anymore, especially not the type that drops thousands of dollars on mining equipment. specialized chips (the name escapes me). GPU's are nowhere near efficient at the task anymore, and haven't been for years.
Robert Foster
***They buy specialized chips (the name escapes me) or FPGAs.
Eli Martinez
what i don't understand is how we're whittled down to just one fucking company
how is it that with all this "tech madness" in the last decade we've only got the red and green teams?
Jayden Cooper
OK then, Raja Koduri himself has experience on mobile. Happy?
Brandon Gonzalez
Ethereum is the second biggest coin right now, and unlike BTC, ETH can ONLY be mined by GPUs, especially AMD gpus.
ASIC based mining doesnt work on ETH, which means GPU mining is the way to go.
Go look up what happend to the R9 290/290x, and the 7950 because of demand from miners. Literally couldnt find the card anywhere except from scalpers on ebay since the cards were completely bought out by miners running 100 card+ rigs that took up entire rooms to make mad bank.
And you know what? It's those miners buying out entire markets of GPUs that probably kept AMD afloat. And the only reason AMD didn't make even more money was because the miners LITERALLY BOUGHT ALL THEY COULD.
So now enter this new profitable fancy card that beats the old ones by a landslide, and AMD has basically said 'go ahead, try and buy them all, we have a nearly infinite supply'
AMD is going to make crazy money on the Polaris series, so pumped.
Justin Gray
High barriers to entry.
Markets with high barriers to entry tend to form natural monopolies, like utilities, oil companies, telecom companies, supplies etc..
Ryder Hughes
You two are thinking of ASICs and the second biggest coin right now, Ethereum, cannot be mined with ASICs due to design.
Bitcoin is mined with ASICs, and Ethereum is mined with GPUs.
GPU mining isn't dead, it just moved from bitcoin to Eth, and Ethereum miners have entire rooms full of AMD gpus to mine with since Eth algorithm is optimized for OpenGL, which is AMD's focus on their cards.
CUDA does well from Nvidia but the low cost and low power consumption of Polaris cards makes them beat the shit out of any other card, making the 480 the only choice for Eth mining as of its release.
Jacob Perez
That also means that gamers had to buy Nvidia because AMD cards weren't in stock, and a lot of those people now have brand loyalty to Nvidia.
Camden Nguyen
Sweet summer child. I miss when the world looked so simple like you imagine it is.
Miners. Do. Not. Matter.
I know it might seem like everyone does it because you're immersed in the culture, but they're in insignificant percentage of the market for a company like AMD.
It would take DOZENS of wildly successful launches of both CPU's and GPU's to dig AMD out of their deep financial rut. They've been in a decline for the past decade and it's not looking better.
Even if they can't use ASIC's, miners do not matter.
now that you've got my interest, Why don't they use FPGA's instead ?
Henry Wright
ITT: AMD fanboys and delusional miners ignoring the writing on the wall
Ayden King
When's Intel going to start making proper gpus?
Charles Martin
...
Easton Garcia
fuck off with the scam coin
Aaron Morris
Let's not get off track: no one gives a fuck about mining.
I foresee intel actually implementing all the wacky shit they try to impose on PC manufacturers, they'll have a lot more power to make demands on OEMs now.
We might see some cool form factors, or end up with a shitton of useless features.
Sebastian Ross
I doubt they ever will. They'll just continue improving the iGPUs on their processors, and maybe one day video game graphics will plateau so that eventually Intel's iGPUs will be able to play games at an acceptable level.
Or maybe if they buy AMD as it was rumored a while ago, they'd keep the Radeon division alive. But I highly doubt the FTC would be OK with Intel buying AMD unless they were forced to open up the x86_64 license to others or something.
Jaxson Fisher
FPGAs dont work either by design.
Eth mining requires 2-4 GB PER CORE, and FPGA/ASICs don't even have a single GB/core, they can't handle Eth's algorithm (designed on purpose)
Consider this: R9 290x and 290 were jacked up almost 50% in price by scalpers on ebay because it was (and still is) exceptionally difficult to buy them anywhere due to Eth miners completely and utterly exhausting stocks everywhere.
When was the last time any video card had that happen to it due to gamers? Gamers only upgrade their cards every few years, and they will buy maybe 1-2.
Miners constantly buy the latest versions of cards, especially right when they first come out asap. They buy hundreds of cards EACH, and when new cards come out they instantly start upgrading.
I dunno bro but considering the fact that AMD has acknowledged the fact that older cards sold out of stock due to miners and coincidentally mentioned they have dramatically increased the stock of the new cards... pretty sure miners actually are having a huge impact on keeping AMD afloat.
And if it keeps happening, AMD will rise back up.
Jayden Hernandez
the FTC very likely does not give a fuck about x86 anymore, considering intel considers ARM it's biggest competitor, not AMD.
Leo Bell
Amd is doing bad for the x time
Ati is as usual
They come up with a good thing
Good time
Intel deploys the jewish tricks
At the same time amd flops
Amd is "finished"
Repeat
>ati
Gpu shit flinging
Ati and nvidia fuck up in several ways each year
Repeat
Carter Reed
they are not impacting AMD financially
Jonathan Hill
Your opinion on the coin itself doesnt change the fact stores all over the world were so consistantly sold out of 290/290x cards, scalpers had them up for sale for 50% higher prices on ebay.
And this wasnt something happening during early release when there was high demand.
This happened well after release when most gamers already had their card, which means that impact was pretty much strictly miners.
Andrew Martinez
All that needs to be said is in this picture. The numbers have been like this for the past decade.
The company is going to run out of assets, miners or no miners.
Joshua Clark
And how do you support that claim?
If miners didn't exist AMD may very well have had much bigger losses.
Samuel Nelson
Don't take my word for it.
Just wait and see how hard it will be to get your hands on a 480 in a month or two once EthOS can support 480s and the big league miners can use them in their rigs.
You'll notice suddenly every store (just like when it happened with the 290/290x) will have them on backorder for months on end, and you'll see 480s for sale on ebay for 300-350 bucks.
And selling. Fast.
Juan Parker
They consider ARM their biggest competitor, but that doesn't mean the FTC wouldn't be worried about a lack of competition in x86. Even if the desktop PC market dies to ARM, enterprise use of x86 will still be very lucrative. AMD is almost non existent in that market, but it's still enough for the FTC to want Intel to have competition there if Intel bought AMD.
Camden Garcia
every single quarter these numbers look the same
Oliver Taylor
>posting the same numbers 3 times That pic only supports your argument if the world is a vacuum where miners are the only factor.
Tyler Smith
The FTC does not care about competition in x86, the market is changing and they are aware of it. It is their job to be aware of these things.
It doesn't matter if Intel is the only x86 game in town, because they have competition in the server market, LOTS of it. POWER, MIPs, etc....
No worries from the FTC
Ryan Murphy
We'll see what next quarter looks like when EthOS supports the 480.
Remember: the 290 and 290x were bought out so much AMD simply couldnt even supply enough for the demand.
The 480 will actually give us a true show of just how hungry miners can be.
I wonder if they are up to it. A lot of the reason miners only ran up to 100 or whatever cards was simply because supply dwindled so they stopped there, since remaining supply required paying double or even triple price for cards.
If the supply hadn't dwindled, just how long they would keep buying cards is hard to say.
John Rivera
Financial statement only show assets acquired through transaction.
Dylan Peterson
you guys really have no idea how massive AMD is, and how much income they need to turn a profit do you?
They've been posting losses for the better part of a decade, and that was even with Bitcoin mining at it's peak with people buying hundreds of AMD cards.
Some miners on the coin of the week aren't going to save the company. Hell, even a 3 year string of successful products would. Only a massive systemic change will, because they're too attached to a shrinking market, that their marketshare is only shrinking of.
The graphics division might be fine and dandy, but that minds DIDDLY SQUAT when the rest of the company is dying.
It doesn't help that they have the worst management in the industry.
Adam Peterson
Sapphire RX 480 is right now the most sold GPU n amazon, and the 3rd PC component in sales. Stock is rising. Your argument a shit.
Ethan Green
*means
I'm sure if they jettisoned Radeon graphics it would do great as an independent company, but AMD as whole has been dying a long, slow death do to poor management, factors outside their control, and bad sales.
Samuel Campbell
You claim that miners are not impacting AMD financially.
If they keep buying all the AMD stock, how are they not impacting AMD financially?
Angel Morris
>I'm sure if they jettisoned Radeon graphics it would do great as an independent company I think Raja Koduri would agree.
Sebastian Russell
Well you could at least post next quarter's revenues, you know, the ones that might actually be impacted by the 480.
AMD really was putting a lot of resources into the 480 paying off since they even delayed their high end cards for it.
Jeremiah Smith
>anti monopoly laws There are also other companies making discrete desktop graphics cards so it wouldn't be a 'monopoly' in the same way Windows isn't a monopoly on the desktop PC market. They're just not very good cards.
Ian Wood
dont misconstrue my argument. everyone buying a product from AMD impacts them financially. The problem is even their entire GPU department doesn't matter enough to save the company. It's been going through a downward spiral for the better part of a decade for a variety of reasons, and their assets are slowly but surely dwindling
they are going to be bought out by a larger company. the question isn't if, it's when and by who
Isaiah Nguyen
See >they are not impacting AMD financially That's what I had a problem with.
>everyone buying a product from AMD impacts them financially.
So you admit you were wrong since you're now contradicting yourself.
Josiah Johnson
do you have a time machine?
anyway, IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW GOOD THEIR GRAPHICS CARDS SELL. it is not enough. even if their graphics cards were perfect and had more than 30% of the market IT WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH.
i dont care about the pedantic bullshit, quote my exact words, it doesnt change one bit what im trying to say
Jaxon Torres
>pedantic bullshit >What I'm trying tosay Now you're backpedalling. Just admit you were wrong.
You said sales from miners don't impact them financially. Fucking idiot.
Bentley Perry
im not backing peddling, miners will not impact anything them significantly financially
ill start being more exact if you want to be pedantic, it clearly bothers your autism that im not speaking literally, i apologize for upsetting you
Thomas Hall
remove either the word them, or the word anything from the first sentence, i slipped one in by mistake
David Russell
This is backpedalling. >No, I didn't mean it literally.
Just admit you were wrong.
And is your shift key broken?
Brody Perry
no, im not wrong
miners will not impact them financially, other than in the most literal sense
Asher Butler
Let's see; they're approx 100 million in the hole every quarter, and they'd need to sell, assuming they make $50 profit on each 480 they sell: 2 million 480s.
See? You could have just used a little maths and estimation to show that it's very unlikely that 480s will push them to the black.
Even changing the profit margin to $100 only takes that to a million, and greater than that is unreasonable. Sales for things like GPUs in a single quarter won't go above 200,000 even if they sold like hotcakes.
Jaxson Thompson
I think the point he is making is GPUs are only one part of AMD and though the money from GPUs help, AMD also has useless as fuck CPUs.
Unless...
Their next CPUs at the end of the year are just as big a deal.
I dunno though AMD is really into this whole APU thing and... it doesnt seem like a good idea to me. Ehhhh
Brayden Williams
Fix your shift key, stud.
Camden Bailey
i didnt think i needed to do the math for him, and thats 2 million 480's on top of what they normally sell every quarter
Evan Richardson
Who would be the worst company to buy AMD? My vote is Microsoft.
Brandon Moore
>losses are 100% constant.
David Wood
he was averaging the losses every quarter for the past few years
it's also an estimate - its suppose to illustrate how difficult of a proposition AMD recovering is
Chase Adams
Net income per quarter: q1 2016: -109 million q4 2015: -102million q3 2015: -197million q2 2015: -181millon q1 2015: -180million
i can keep going but its all the same or worse
Ryan Reed
MS ruins everything they touch.
Isaac King
Well, they do have the contracts for the next gen PS and Xbox SOCs, and the rumor that their taking moar coars with zen opterons up to the next level (32 Zen cores on a single package is the rumor) is getting increasingly persistent and strong. If that latter one proves true, and the performance is competitive, AMD could easily take back a significant amount of HPC and server marketshare.
Samuel Diaz
Is it possible that Google would have any interest buying AMD? Google already makes their own co processor thing to help with AI because they needed a more specialized processor for that. I'm sure Google would want AMD's patents and other IP for that. They might not make consumer GPUs though if they did that, just enterprise tier stuff.
John Hernandez
q4 2014: -364 million q3 2014: 14 million q2 2014: -36 million q1 2014: -20 million
2013 and older the net income is not immediately available for me to see so it would take me a few minutes to get, but its publicly available and free to access
Dominic Perez
"take back"? they never had a significant marketshare. they sold a few opterons here and there but theyve never been a major player, not like intel or IBM
Andrew Nelson
AMD will live on
Cameron Sanchez
In spirit, by selling themselves to a larger and more successful company
Owen Murphy
they'll be fine
though if they die and we have an intel/nvidia monopoly, I'll just laugh at all the idiots who supported that nonsense
Gavin Allen
AMD is still doing Playstation's APU. That shit sells you know
Gavin Nguyen
It'd be a hell of alot better than the measly fraction of a percent they have now.
And lets face it, for some applications, having a metric fuckton of Haswell-tier (the serious fucking hope that they're at least that strong) cores is very very attractive to some people, and intel would not have anything to counter it on a sheer core count scale, as their highest chip only yields 22C well out of a 24C die.
Adam Stewart
>I SERIOUSLY doubt government intervention will effect intel/nvidia >intervention will effect intel/nvidia >effect intel/nvidia >effect Rohit can't into English
William Hughes
That has a very low profit margin. It would be enough to keep the Radeon group alive, but not AMD as a whole.
Eli Reed
AMD only currently exists due to massive cash reserves from the athlon 64 days.
They have virtually none of the staff that made them the great company they once were, and their management is notoriously the worst in the processor industry (for a major company that is)
Their fundamental problem is good engineers don't want to work at AMD anymore. They get paid and treated better elsewhere, with much better job security.
You know where the first place AMD fires people when they need to trim employees? R&D. First budget they cut? R&D. Their short sighted management practices are what is killing them, and the sad part is even if they changed today it probably wouldn't be enough to save them, because that shit pays off 5 years from now, not today,
Julian Green
So, you guys are angry because I bought an AMD rx480?
Dylan Gutierrez
they've also got the xbone
not too sure about nintendos upcoming console, though it'd be stupid of nintendo to not use the same architecture as the ps4 and xbone
Asher Rodriguez
Rumor has it Nvidia managed to get that one. How, I dunno.
Zachary Richardson
Even if they made good profit margins off of consoles, it wouldn't be enough to counter AMD's huge losses.
Angel Rivera
consoles do not make a difference, they account for something like 100 million dollars a year total (not net), not enough to cause a turn around
Evan Lee
your austim is showing
OP is dead and gone
Jayden Price
autism*
making a typo was ironic though, i admit
Camden Ramirez
they will not make inroads
intel aside (who can just sell discounted old stock..) there are too many other established, attractive options with better reputation than AMD
reputation means a whole lot more than you think in enterprise
Ryder Morgan
Maybe Nintendo is worried about AMD going out of business and sees Nvidia as a more stable/reliable partner?
Asher Howard
If Intel became a monopoly they would either have to make incredible CPU's or give the consumer a reason to upgrade with some sort of software that makes the hardware work better in gaming or video editing to sell desktop CPUs. If they cannot achieve either of these then expect them to begin using the self destruct feature in the ME code to force the consumer to buy another without the consumer knowledge, this might sound far fetched but it is the CEO's responsibility to make money for the shareholders and if he chooses not to do this for moral reason they can terminate his contract and prosecute him.
Nathaniel Smith
Intel doesn't have to do anything. AMD is an attractive buy for any larger company, especially if they fire all the upper and middle level managers
Hudson Nelson
We honestly do not know how the market will react, because we do not know how Zen will perform or how it behaves. There's a huge number of people awaiting the Zen launch, as that will literally be make or break for them.
Nathaniel Campbell
wait what are AMD even spending all their money on?