I want to chat with people who say they are having a hard time finding work. Be it dev, ops or sysadmin. I want to hear about experiences they have had with interviews.
At the company I work for we are scraping the bottom of the barrel and still can't find enough people. Can anyone explain this to me?
Pic unrelated
Other urls found in this thread:
All that matters is location anymore. Good programmers in "flyover country" can't get jobs, whereas shitty programmers in Silicon Valley bring everyone else down but have to be hired because there's no choice.
Our company, while based out of England, has a team we cannot fill based out of Minnesota.
bumping one last time to see if anyone has a perspective. I am curious. Does everyone here have a job?
I was out of work for 2.5 months about a year ago, I was looking for work as a system admin. I have a bachelors of science in IT, CCENT, experience administering Unix systems, systems integration and troubleshooting skills, Perl programming and SQL experience, great writing and communication skills, and I've been in the IT industry for approx. 14 years as various tech support lead, customer service rep, web developer, et cetera.
Anyway, I never found work as a system admin. Ended up in IT sales, which is fine since I enjoy working with the end user - that said, coworkers in my new job are far less qualified than I am and I feel I should be making more money.
Yes but not in IT/CS
hire me
You should be making more money. Are you able to learn on your own and figure out complex problems that you may have no experience in? Regardless of time, just if you are capable. Did you try a recruitment agency?
It seems like with your experience you should have been basically given a job. After an interview showing you can diagnose issues we would have given you a job.
Also, where do you live?
Tell me about your qualifications(less important) and tell me about times you've solved problems in your respective field. Something that you had difficulty solving.
I'm almost finished of my CS degree. Would it be easy for me to get a job if I'm willing to live literally anywhere?
I have no ties here, I'd be willing to pack up and go anywhere on earth. As long as there is food and internet, I will be happy. Sup Forums is making me paranoid that I won't be able to get a job and I'll become homeless
Which field are you in? Are you looking for IT/CS related jobs? At the very least I might be able to explain what we are looking for. If not, I would still like to hear about your experiences.
A CS degree on its own is basically worthless because they don't teach anything of any practical use. If you don't have a couple internships to pad your resume with, you are kinda fucked.
In my experience the people who can't find jobs fall into two groups. The first one is the kinds of people I mentioned above. They've got some kind of tech skills but are basically worthless because none of the skills they have are in demand.
The second group is people who are just bad a job searching. They'll do stuff like only apply to a couple big tech companies (Google, Apple, and Facebook for example) and when they don't get
Don't worry. What type of job are you looking for? If you are looking for designing CPUs then I think the market is a bit lacking. If you are looking for a general development/sysadmin type job there should be no lack of jobs.
Between sysadmin and developer, do you have a preference?
Accidentally hit send, continued:
The second group is people who are just bad a job searching. They'll do stuff like only apply to a couple big tech companies (Google, Apple, and Facebook for example) and when they don't get those, they just kinda give up instead of looking at other companies. A lot of these people refuse to work with a recruiter so it is almost impossible to get their resume into the right people's hands. Like OP said, lots of people are hiring, but finding those people is the trick.
I want to mostly agree with you except for a CS degree being worthless. Although, I am making a few assumptions. I would assume somebody who finishes that degree is capable to a certain extent. At the very least, it should get his foot in the door.
Yeah I was looking at more of a general kinda deal. I love working with Linux so I'm leaning toward sysadmin right now, but I could do development too
I was hoping this. I don't have any internships unfortunately but I do have some projects on github, that should be enough to get me an entry level job right? I'm not expecting to walk right into a 6 figure salary, just something to get me experience for a couple years
For sure. Maybe the problem is general job searching.
I didn't try a recruiter, maybe I should have. I applied to approx 60 different positions.
>where you live
Greater Seattle area.
>able to learn on your own and figure out complex problems with no experience
Yes, generally. I'm comfortable with software and hardware, mechanical things, electronics, etc.
I did a randomly-selected code challenge on the Sup Forums thread the other day. It took me about 3 hrs.
#!/usr/bin/perl
# Syntax: ipcalc.pl
use strict;
use experimental 'bitwise';
my $ip_number = deconvolute($ARGV[0]);
my $mask_number = deconvolute_mask($ARGV[1]);
print "IP address: " . convolute(deconvolute($ARGV[0])) ."\n";
print "Netmask: " . convolute_mask(deconvolute_mask($ARGV[1])) ."\n";
my $network_address_number = $ip_number-(($ip_number % ($mask_number+1)));
my $first_host_number = $network_address_number+1;
my $last_host_number = $network_address_number+$mask_number-1;
my $broadcast_number = $network_address_number+$mask_number;
print "Network address: " . convolute($network_address_number) . "\n";
print "Broadcast: " . convolute($broadcast_number) . "\n";
print "First host: " . convolute($first_host_number) . "\n";
print "Last host: " . convolute($last_host_number) . "\n";
sub deconvolute {
my @ip = split(/\./,$_[0]);
return ($ip[0]*16777216 + $ip[1]*65536 + $ip[2]*256 + $ip[3]);
}
sub deconvolute_mask {
my @mask = split(/\./,$_[0]);
return (255-$mask[0])*16777216 + (255-$mask[1])*65536 + (255-$mask[2])*256 + (255-$mask[3]);
}
sub convolute {
use integer;
return join(".",($_[0]/16777216,($_[0]%16777216)/65536,(($_[0]%16777216)%65536)/256,(($_[0]%16777216)%65536)%256));
}
sub convolute_mask {
use integer;
my $i = 4294967295-$_[0];
return join(".",($i/16777216,($i%16777216)/65536,(($i%16777216)%65536)/256,(($i%16777216)%65536)%256));
}
nobody is technical anymore and theres no shaming allowed... and its a billion times worse if youre hiring 18-24 year olds.
Yes. Entry level is not hard to get into. You just need SOMETHING and at least present that you have a passion for it. We recently hired a person with no experience other than a 12 week boot camp. It should not be a problem. I suggest a recruitment agency. Its shit because they take some of the money but they WILL get you a job.
get a certification and ANY experience in IT
>I would assume somebody who finishes that degree is capable to a certain extent.
Only in a very general sense. Most CS programs don't require that much coding, a lot of subjects (and the professors themselves) are way out of date due to the pace of technology, and a lot of the other subjects are at best only tangentially related to what companies need.
What kinds of projects? I've definitely looked at people's GitHub profiles when interviewing and for some it actually hurt them. If its just school assignments (unless they are REALLY impressive school projects), or forked repos with little to no changes, it won't help you. However if you've actually been participating in open source projects, or developing your own projects, that could be a huge plus for you.
Yeah, probably
>I didn't try a recruiter, maybe I should have. I applied to approx 60 different positions.
THERESYOURPROBLEM.jpg
Seriously though, applying directly to companies is worthless. Your resume get's buried in with the others and then you have to survive several rounds of HR filtering before you get to a team leader or manager than can actually make an informed judgement. Recruiters typically work more directly with the manger/team leader so a smaller number of resumes ends up directly in their hands.
That said, not all recruiters are equal. Resume spam factories like Cyber Coders are useless for hiring or getting hired.
How much are you offering for the position? I wouldn't consider anything below 120k.
Well that's needlessly hurtful
I have no real skills or experience so I don't get interviews. Admittedly I didn't look outside where I live, where there are hardly any jobs. That wasn't very clever. I almost got a job as a web developer i.e. I got a 2nd interview.
Then I tried to join the military but I can't run, so couldn't pass the fitness test.
But I'm going back to finish my degree now. I dropped out near the end the first time because of depression.
Somehow I've managed to fail at everything despite not being particularly bad at anything. Life hates me.
With my limited knowledge of perl and networking I would say there is nothing wrong with this. At the very least it seems fine and fulfills its purpose. As an exercise this is great, however, many managers/techincal leads are looking for more practical problems to be solved. Contributing to open source or having your own project that solves a problem is much more valuable. I don't want to put you down though. This shows an understanding which is extremely valuable.
I'm going to assume this is bait.
What do you think would be a good kind of project to impress people with as little work as possible, and still relevant to sysadmin work?
USA is dead.
Shit pay due to wage pressure from visa workers and offshore.
All offshore.
First Move Jobs from Cities to Suburbs
Then
Move jobs to Near Shore in the Southern States
Then
Move Jobs Offshore.
Time to start DDOSing and Striking.
¡¡¡WE SHOULD ORGANIZE!!!
Tragically I am deadly serious. My life is so pathetic that it is hardly believable
What company/what's the pay?
Communications, Computer, and Software Workers Industrial Union 560
A knowledge of bash is pretty useful as its likely most of what you would deal with. Maybe write something that could automate the installation and automatic setup of something. You may need to deal with things like multiple machine communicating with each other so writing something relieve the pain of some service clustering together. Or create a diagnostic tool. for instance, submit a pull request to curl so that it supports proxy protocol. If you can do that I will personally pay you.
Tell me about your experience. Tell my about something you needed to solve that was difficult.
Cannot give company name. Pay depends on ability. Entry level is likely 40k
>expecting anyone decent will work for your shitty noname company for 40k
That's 10k less than I make. What kind of work is it and if you say development I'll stab you in the fucking balls.
lel
Fucking lol @ CS fags
Most of them end up in tech support jobs making slightly above minimum wage.
Why not get a fucking networking diploma which takes 2 years instead? Pathetic
Based on experience user. Entry level like no experience and no degree. Just a interest in it. We haven't hired anyone for less than 60k. Besides, I imagine many people would like to work for that money given the circumstances.
Is this the NEET thread?
protip:SIGKILL doesn't always work
See
60k was for a guy with almost no experience. It was powershell scripting and we work with linux. And thats not even a tenth of the job.
However, perhaps this is the reason people can't get jobs. They are unwilling to work for less for a little while until they can build up some experience to make much more money.
>They are unwilling to work for less for a little while until they can build up some experience to make much more money.
That's what internships are for. If a university (not those grad program feeder schools) doesn't require an internship to graduate for a CS program, it's a shit school.
I'm in close(state away). Would you help me mv?
SOCKS?
Possibly, depending on your ability of course. Also I would not be able to divulge information via Sup Forums. I just want you to know that people WOULD be willing to do that.
>MIT, Harvard, and Stanford are shit schools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not those grad program feeder schools
I take it you went to a shit school.
Sure. Not sure what the plan would be but it sounds as good as any. What can that solve for me? I often need to proxy but setting it up is sometimes a drag.
TRu
No I didn't. And less than a third of MIT undergrads go on to grad school. Same with the other colleges. They are by no means "grad program feeder schools".
How do I find the smaller tech companies that are looking for programmers/webdev/sysadmins? I only have a 2-year diploma in CIS and some retail and freelance webdev experience, not a 4-year degree in CS or any internships with tech companies.
Also, what's the best way to find US companies willing to hire and bring in someone from Canada? I want to come to the US to work but I don't even know how to begin searching for companies that would be willing to hire someone from another country. (Don't worry, I'm a cis white male and half my extended family is American anyways)
Degree in Mathematics/CompSci.
Can use Pythn/Linux/Java/Some SQL
Been around Comps. and Sciences all my life.
Chat more over another medium Sup Forumsent?
No one wants to pay for your H1B Zhang.
although my job has nothing to do with porgramming or whatever really, we're in a similar boat. Its funny, I keep hearing about how shitty the job market is, but we've had an incredibly hard time finding and holding onto employees.
and before people say its because we're a shitty company, we're one of the largest for what we do in north america (if not the largest, depending what metric for "large" you use), fully unionized, full benefits, unlimited time off (if you want to take a month off to go to the bahamas, you can, albeit not all of it will be paid), tons of travel/relocation options, we're totally willing to train you from the ground up with no prior experience or training, but if you have experience/training we'll pay higher than anyone in the industry and offer tons of room for advancement, etc etc, etc. I see tons of people on facebook bitching about not being able to find jobs, but its like fuck, do you just not wanna work or find a job paying 150k/year doing absolutely nothing? I dont get it
I also see tons of young people coming in an expecting to be a supervisor within a year, and are shocked when they find out it doesn't work like that. Where does this entitlement come from? You can't just start sprinting before you can even crawl. And before anyone says I sound like an angry old boomer or whatever, I'm only 23, but I just cant understand my generation's attitude
I'm not unemployed, but two years ago I was looking for a new job (while still employed) and I experienced a lot of hostility during the interviews. I suppose my age and experience may have had something to do with it. There were multiple times where it was obvious I was talking over the level of the person interviewing me. Some interviews felt like going through a list and if ONE thing was not absolute perfect, it was over. One pair of interviewers would use company specific lingo and look at each other with the "what a dumbass" look when I didn't already know what the term meant.
Again, a recruitment company. They can figure stuff out. Remember to do some research on it before you commit. Some of them are absolutely horrible. Some are great. Also, coming from another country, I have heard that you get screwed horribly. You need "sponsorship" which costs a lot of money but not as much money as they will take from you. Need to be careful. I can't give any more advice than that. Sorry
look through HR pile of stuff they throw away.
Probably throws away or filters away 95% of the applications.
I am not even in tech and i was doing 30-40 job applications a day. Tons of my applications would be denied with in the hour which i thought was odd seeing the companies where local time zoned, and I would get rejection letters at 10 pm
Baby boomers were also entitled. They are just sour about millennials replacing them. The best companies are the ones that listen to employees and when they say they want more responsibility -- they GIVE IT TO THEM. Guess what -- if they fail, you can just get rid of them or put them back in a different role. If they succeed, CONGRATS!
Thanks, do you know if I should be looking for a Canadian recruitment company and telling them I'm interested in US jobs? Or talking to a US recruitment company?
I've made a temp email [email protected]
I don't believe I will be able to help you though, especially tonight as I have started drinking.
>company specific lingo
That sounds terrible and completely irrelevant. I wouldn't bother with a place that treats you like that, assuming it was really company specific.
As far as what we have experienced right now, being "absolutely perfect" was far from what we were looking for. We were looking for any spark that told us you knew what you were doing. As i've mentioned before, we are not being picky
I only want to respond to agree with this.
that's pretty much how my company works, they'll keep giving you more and more responsibility/raises until you crack then they'll loosen up the reins a bit to find out where you fall.
And ya I see tons of old farts getting upset about the young guys getting advanced in the company. But like, they're all so shitty at their jobs and so resistant to changing or incorporating any new tech into how they work, so they do everything shittier and slower. I kind of envy the guys in their 30s right now, they're in the sweet spot of having enough experience to do stuff well, old enough to know the value of hard work, but young enough to still absorb information
I don't have that level of knowledge, sorry. Do some research. I would suggest calling a few Canadian companies and get a baseline for how something like that would work.
Like i said in I mean I have gone to interviews where the 2-4 people interviewing me 3 hrs into a 1 hour interview saying we need to stop here because we have other interviewees and stuff to do today. Then drop " I look forward to working with you", 2 weeks later I get a this position has already been filled.
So either, there is a glut of over qualified people applying to entry level recent grad listings or there is another issue here.
Enjoy your diversity hires and O but this guy/girl graduated from X university.
This seems very foreign to me. Where do you live (generally), what type of job were you going for, and what type of pay range were you going for?
Well it is Minnesota... Make sure you can entice people to move there.
>chicago
>entry level finance anything ( accounting, analyst, junior compliance, lock box admin, loan opener )
>pay range 35-45k
the most recent rejection letter was a secretary at a metals company, they took me for a impromptu tour of the facility, introduced me to the entire office staff, and had me interview with the regional director. It was a listed 30-45 minute interview, i was there for 2 hours.
Greatest part why I thought I had the job was, as I was leaving " we will call you end of next week or early week after to set up your paper work "
currently doing PhD because I couldn't find entry-level job while tutoring undergrads
Give us a job, OP! I actually already have a job in a warehouse, and I'd probably be completely unqualified for what you've got, plus I'd probably need a visa/work permit for your country, but I'm a diligent employee and learn quickly!
I handled hiring for an MSP in my area. We near the middle of California, but about a couple hour drive from Silicon Valley. The time I put out for hires I was inundated with stupid-qualified and insanely under-qualified.
The usual stack of resumes would look like this:
A) The old computer guy who has had a million years working on old shit that isn't remotely relevant. Is entirely too cocky for his own good. Phone interviews usually end with "Does this non-relevant even want the job, because he sure as hell has a fuckass attitude"
B) The guy who wants to pivot from working in minor-scale wiring to IT. Knows nothing about computers, but likes attics and running wire and usually smells like old clothing and methamphetamine. He thinks he can do the job because he put some ethernet in walls as a once-off contract gig. Phone interview goes OK, but you definitely aren't expecting anything exciting from him. Usually ends in a "I swear to god if this is the best option I have I'm going to quit and move."
C) The guy who worked at a mom-and-pop shop fixing computers. Thinks he knows computers, but only knows consumer-level side of computers. This is the guy who knows what a hard drive is, how it works, what RAM is and how it works, and when asked "Can you work with networks?" he'll reply "Yeah I set up my parent's linksys router for them". Active directory, powershell, bash, bat, DNS, OSI mean nothing and are met with blank stares.
D) The Silicon Valley wannabe. This is a dude in expert fluff. Lists edgy new high-level programming languages in his resume for a SysAdmin job. Throws in every word he knows how to pronounce into his resume. He can't help it, he just wants the job. I get it, but if you say you know "Cisco", you better be able to tell me what the blue cable does in relation to the console port. First comes off as a promising resume, but crashes and burns in the interview.
Comment got too long, so I'll end it here. It's about spending a shitload of time.
I'm not unemployed anymore, but I did have quite a bit of trouble for a while. One thing that took me some time to get over was the fact that the job descriptions sucked because they were written by people who didn't know anything about programming.
It would say shit like
"5 years experience minimum" for a junior role when they didn't actually mean it.
"Must have experience with [library I could probably learn most of in a week by fucking around with it]"
"Must be expert in [language I feel comfortable with but don't consider myself an expert in]" etc.
Eventually I realized that I had to ignore most of it, and I found a job easily after that.
Continued.
It's about spending a shitload of time, but most importantly it's about designing a proper ad. You need to advertise just as much as the candidate needs to get the attention of the one pulling in candidates. If I'm looking for an entry SysAdmin, I'm not going to throw out any requirements. No 4+ years on the job and two degrees. No requirement for huge knowledge on mundane or exotic technologies. It's going to be "You like computers and learning? Work for us. You'll be badass."
I like to make my personal ads as open as humanly possible so I can gather as many candidates as possible and shift through them. It's better to collect ten pounds of bullshit than to miss an ounce of potential, because those guys are massive to building an amazing team of professionals. This is my technique.
If I'm looking for experienced IT guys, I'm going to add a "Bonus points if:" section. Still no "Required:" section. If I need someone to know AD and Group Policy and Powershell, I'm going to ask for it, and I'm not going to throw in fifteen thousand different minor skills I'm looking for. Don't hunt the Unicorns. Find the horse and stick the horn on it's head. With the right candidate, they'll quickly turn into a unicorn.
>we're totally willing to train you from the ground up with no prior experience or training
What is this company, I'm in school part time for math and computer science, and this type of job would be a great opportunity.
It's a company the 209 area code, if that helps. I no longer work there, but I'm close with those guys. I moved on to in-house IT for a large company and they definitely don't do it the way I've described. When I was there, I would have definitely hired someone in your position if you had some kind of connection to the IT world. Home lab, tinkering with computers, something. It was better than type A,B and D.
Because people who say they can't find work aren't trying hard enough
Do you require a degree, 3+ years of experience, willingness to move across the country at the drop of a pin, and 24/7 on call availability, yet offer a salary that works out to barely over minimum wage?
Think you have that backwards bro. There's a bigger talent shortage in flyover country because everyone wants to live in Meme Valley.
This is the type of company I want to work for. I know to apply to ads even if I don't "fit" exactly but it seems a little insane to ask for a Bachelor's degree and 3-5yrs experience for Tier 1 helpdesk or NOC technician job.
>It's a company the 209 area code, if that helps.
but 209 is a huge area. can you give the first 3 letters of the company at least
also, why so secretive about it?
Because one could rationally deduce his identity if they were adamant...especially if he's on LinkedIn.
Haha, how old are you and what was your last salary?
Also, are you working now?
>209 area code
Lel, what kind of a respected company can be headquartered in the drug infested shithole that is 209?
Why do any of those things matter? What my current company pays me is not an indication of what my worth would be to another company.
Bingo.
I appreciate that. When I started with the company a number of years ago I was in a position that I had viable job skills and didn't have a way to prove it outside of demonstrating. When I got into a position where I could make things happen I didn't want to lead the company's hiring efforts down the path that so many have gone. I wanted to hire good people, with good skills, who might not be able to say "I have a million certs and credentials". Those are the best types, as they usually are much more tenacious and hungry than people who are fully certified up and just coasting for the best pay. I've seen certified dudes run circles around teams of certified "IT professionals".
You'd be surprised the amount of money that is to be made. The service requirements are low (Email and file sharing? Great. We're happy. Oh, backups? That sounds amazing!), labor is somewhat low, and the valley is largely neglected.
With all that said, I'm going to be launching a competing company in the 209 here in the near future. I'll be stopping by Sup Forums to grab some of my brethren for the adventure, if any are close by.
Nobody will even give me a first glance let alone a second because I don't have any certs or real work experience.
Fuck me all I want is a part time tech job trouble shooting.
Have you considered getting a cert?
Getting one does nothing, they want like 6, and I have to pay for them.
Getting a cert. You have a best buy nearby? Geek Squad sucks but it gives you SOME experience. Also look at your local school systems. They'll hire many times with basic knowledge and maybe an A+.
commies can burn in hell
If you don't want to be employed, you can just say that. For what you described, the absolute max cert you would need is an A+ and it's not that expensive.
Stop lying to yourself. You don't want to be employed.
your job should pay for your certs. only idiots pay for their own certs
I am employed though, just want to work with computers too.
Then you have even less reason to complain. You can probably afford the A+ exam cost and it's a joke to take if you have a vague idea of what you're doing.
Damn. Why can't more dudes like you be in DFW area. Do you have any recommendations on labs or things to do at home to become an admin? Any good resources? I'm up in the air between Network and Systems.
You will need something to start off. But even with an A+ it's just going to get you the lowest level of jobs. That's just how it is, that's where you can start.
Also there's no point in getting further advanced certs if you don't have work experience. So just get an A+ or the basic Microsoft cert if that's what you want, and you'll get the entry level job. It's never going to get to a point where it's "easy" as even when you get that first job, you'll have to keep working to learn more and not get stuck in a dead-end position.
IT is saturated now, there's no easy path to success but hard work and gaining knowledge and valuable skills.. but you can still do it.
Just wait. The next generation of business leaders are turning the whole hiring process on it's head. We'll have our time to fix this bullshit.
I'd suggest you lean heavily on your in-home lab to learn. You have all knowledge at your fingertips, so utilize it.
Network guys are going to slowly be replaced by systems. Systems guys are going to turn into operations guys. If you want advice that'll have you positioned squarely on the next wave coming: Learn soft skills and scripting. Automation is going to radically transform our landscape, so you need to be ahead of the curve. It's coming, and it's here, but it's integration is slow.
If I could express it in just a few words: Powershell. If I had one piece of advice for someone, it would be to learn powershell as deeply as humanly possible. This doesn't mean entirely too much until you understand what powershell does and how it interacts with other aspects of the windows ecosystem, but once you've learned the basics (Torrent CBT Nuggets. Old shit is fine, you're just trying to learn, not pass a test. Download Packet Tracer to learn enterprise networking concepts and implementation.) you can start digging into powershell.
Contributing to the Microsoft script center would definitely be something I would highlight on a resume once you feel comfortable writing some useful utilities that do... Whatever.
Also, Microsoft has some outstanding learning resources. Spun-up environments for fucking around. Check out Microsoft Virtual Academy and go to town. Linux is good, but start with Microsoft's stuff first, as it's an easy way to stabilize yourself into the market and move into Linux at a later date.
Thanks man. Are you saying the CBT Nuggets for scripting or for the network side? Are there any good tutorials on powershell?
>Can anyone explain this to me?
You realize how much bullshit you have put up with a interview, and screening process for getting a job these days? It's a miracle if you are able to find a job, and nevermind one that is fucking stable. You have to fill online application, pass tests, have perfect cloths, perfect social skills, perfect technical knowledge to these people. That's not even getting into the bullshit about how employers see people who are over six month unemployed, unhireable. You get fired or layoff for shit that you cannot
Companies do not hire people off of the street. They want people who have experience, so that they do not have train them. Most college grad struggle to get job because they lack on the job experience. If you don't get a related field, a decade of worth experence you are considered unemployedable in this market.
I have temp job, but I probably going be unemployed in the next few months. I'm going to applying like crazy for half decent job.
>>At the company I work for we are scraping the bottom of the barrel and still can't find enough people.
I don't trust company who say this bullshit. They either have qualitification that are too high. Or they have high turnover so they need to hire as many as possible. Because the last time I work for a company who was hiring like crazy, they laid me off in 3 months. Most of the companies who hire people like crazy have shitty management that cannot attain their workers.