>Rich Venezuelans who live in Florida are celebrating the death of Chavez. >They hate him because he did not let them exploit Venezuela as they wish. What this shows is that they have no shame about exploiting the poor. >Sad to say, they have come to the right country. The US would be much better off economically if it had a Chavez as president. And our human rights would be safer, too. Chavez famously violated human rights on some occasions (and I have criticized them), but he's a human rights hero compared with Bush and Obama.
This is from Richard Stallman's political notes. Do you agree with him?
I agree. I actually saw a documentary on it a while back, Basically a bunch of rich Cubans and Venezuelans talking about how bad communism is and in the background they have like a BMW and live in a McMansion.
Logan Sullivan
He is right, and before you criticize some foreign figure make sure you check the story behind the tabloids.
Joshua Clark
It's probably true on a lot of accounts. No different than the fact that a lot of the Cubans in Florida who hate the Castros were Batista's rich friends and their descendants, the people who'd hire thugs to beat their tenant farmers into submission like serfdom had never ended.
That said Chavez was far from perfect, the US wouldn't be better off or safer with him as President, though how much of his failures can be chalked up to the man, and how much blame goes to the brain tumor he had, is up for debate. As for his human rights abuses, the right-wing of his own country and the US were cheering during the attempted coup over 10 years ago, and the leader of that was a military officer with an even worse record on human rights.
Jackson Nguyen
Source? As a Venezuelan, he couldn't be more wrong.
Jordan Taylor
Stallman should stick to commenting about software. In Venezuela the poor are eating rats & dogs, while in America the greatest health issues facing the poor are all obesity related. Venezuela is proof that socialism only works until you run out of other people's money.
Matthew Walker
Seriously. The guy has no fucking idea what the hell is going on in Venezuela.
Jeremiah Brown
As someone living in south america, you couldn't be more wrong (or lying).
Yes, I know the corrupt right wing is sending all the food to Colombia. Fuck the riches and the oligarchy.
Ian Baker
Yes. Hasta la victoria siempre.
Zachary Campbell
But Venezuela is fucking ruined
Evan Perry
>venezuelan restaurants for riches are full of food >meanwhile the right wing blames the government of food scarcity is not a coup at all
Jayden Flores
South America isn't in the same situation as Venezuela. You still have democracy. Hell, you can still fucking eat what you want.
But keep living in that bubble of yours and pray that your country never comes close to the same situation.
Luis Martin
>a commie jew supports Marxist ideologies and socialist utopias Who could have guessed.
Owen Lopez
You keep fucking telling I have democracy when in my country we have shootings at our gatherings and a witchhunt done by the right.
Yes, there is plenty of food, for the rich.
GO FUCK YOURSELF
Andrew Nguyen
>commie jew says the fascist longing for mccarthyism
Carson Gonzalez
Alright, I'll bite. What country, user?
Jaxson Rogers
None of your business, I won't bite when we have paid trolls on the internet patrolling social websites.
Camden Howard
lol I knew you were lying.
Christian Myers
Your kind always pretend nothing happens and try to cover reality with shit.
You are obviously going to lie about nothing happens when I tell you were I live so why bother.
Christian Perez
Stallman is not actually Jewish.
Nicholas Kelly
Like you and Venezuela, right? Pretending like we got the situation wrong.
Luke Miller
>accuses others of trying to hide reality >thinks his paranoid delusions about paid shills on Sup Forums are objective truth TOP KEK
Dominic Edwards
Ugh, right wing Venezuelans can't be more idiotic and cannot possibly be more sensationalist or outright liers even if they tried. This is not what happens in Venezuela, Venezuela is NOW in the middle of a crisis and Maduro is stupid as fuck but that wasn't the case with Chavez. And the fault of such crisis is equally distributed amongst all the governments in venezuela's history (you should have a more diversified economy) and is not directly related to Chavez's or even Maduro's mismanadgement. And the crisis is way WAAY overblown by most right wing, american wannabe, prideless, uneducated Venezuelans.
Also, as a south american, I agree with Stallman.
Isaac Cox
I bet you suck capriles dick, that terrorist deserves jail.
The country is Argentina, and I know the trolls are going to appear, won't bother in replying, they are in Sup Forums too.
Why the fuck are you nazi in the first place then, stupid fuck?
Alexander Campbell
Didn't meant to quote
Michael Adams
...
Dominic Johnson
>that image NO
Isaiah Fisher
There is no society where an upper class does not exist. In communist societies, it is often either government and military officials that make up the upper class, if not those who manage to succeed in black markets. Regardless, it is always the government's responsibility to ensure that those who can work do not starve. In the civilized world, we do this through free markets. In the US, even the homeless and destitute do not often starve, given the existence of food banks and other charities, as well as food stamp programs for the truly poor. In Venezuela, there is no free market. The government has implemented price fixing, thus causing many businesses to simply not produce. There have been shortages not just in food, but also in other commodities like toilet paper, and the entire problem could be fixed if the government stopped trying to fuck with the markets.
Jaxon Hall
>implying the US is a free market and not an oligarchy >implying the boycott isn't to blame food scarcity >implying the hijackers are doing "free market"
Grayson Williams
The riches of the upper class aswell as the percentage of money they take away from the People are insignificant when compared to those of capitalism and while upper class is not intended to exist in communism, they are justified, sistemical and even encouraged to be as monstruous as they want by capitalism.
David Carter
>implying the US is a free market and not an oligarchy It may not be a perfect free market, but relative to most of the world, we are exceptionally free. There are very few governmental barriers to entry in most enterprises.
>implying the boycott isn't to blame food scarcity Maybe if your country would get rid of its dictator, we might consider buying from you. In the mean time, try to have some industry OTHER than oil producing. You're in a global market now. Step it the fuck up.
Cooper Hill
not him but you are really stupid.
Dylan Campbell
>that wasn't the case with Chavez Had he continued, he'd have encountered the same situation as Maduro. Because his fucking policies and the corruption he brought are the culprit. It was a time bomb from the very beginning.
>And the fault of such crisis is equally distributed amongst all the governments in venezuela's history (you should have a more diversified economy) It's not equally distributed at all. Corruption is at an all-time high in Venezuela. We're in debt with Russia and China and because Chavez and Maduro fucked up national production (that has never fucking happened before in Venezuela), we can't fucking pay it. And the government's solution to keep stealing money (not paying the debt)? More taxes and "plant your own food".
>And the crisis is way WAAY overblown by most right wing, american wannabe, prideless, uneducated Venezuelans. I'm living the crisis and I'll tell you right now, it's not overblown. Hell, what gets reported internationally is not even half of the shit that's happening over here.
Aaron Watson
Then why don't you go live there?
Noah Nelson
this is more a Sup Forums thread than a Sup Forums thread, but anyway.
no. fucking hell no. i live in south america. not in venezuela but ecuador. venezuela is a rich country in comparison, way richer than ecuador and look how thing are right now. socialism works only if there's no corruption, and as long as there is other people's money.
i despise this place. the only thing that saved ecuador from a worse situation than venezuela's is we use the US dollar, so the government can't devaluate the currency. in 1998 shit hit the fan with the sucre, and the country didn't have other choice so they kill the sucre and established a hard currency exchange of 25k sucres per dollar.
anyway. people that don't know what they are talking about will always see good in venezuela, nicaragua or ecuador, and their "21st century socialism"
fuck them. fuck this place. fuck socialism. fuck corruption. fuck nepotism. fuck this government. fuck all of your first world countries that don't allow people to escape.
fuck you
Julian Rogers
Fuck fucks sake, the US is the most protectionist country in the world.
Do you even know the barriers to extract technology from the US? Or maybe the excessive taxes to foreign products?
Chase Harris
Venezuela must be the only country to ever have a fucking TP shortage. That was hell while I was there.
Zachary Gray
¿A quién coño le interesa Argentina? Este hilo es de Venezuela, ciego de mierda.
What makes Capriles a terrorist?
Yeah, because South America is just one big country, right?
Source: the deepest places in your ass
How are you going to know what Venezuela's crisis is like when you've never been here? Minimum wage is jack shit though it's possible to get by with that in Maracaibo, there are shortages but since this city shares a border, we get things imported from Colombia at really high prices. Places like Coro or Punto Fijo are completely fucked, since they don't share a border with anything. Coro has shortages of pretty much everything.
Grayson Anderson
Why don't you blame the food distributors do then faggot? Or you think "is a free market" is more important than distributing food?
Is a coup you bonehead.
Ryan Edwards
>Do you even know the barriers to extract technology from the US? What technology? All I know about is ITAR and that only affects 'military' technology. I suppose that pretty much covers all technology now?
Ayden Sullivan
t. argentina's government shill
Blake Reyes
hahha all those opinions and you believing and spreading sensationalist stories about one guy eating a rat. What a shill.
Corruption is not measurable and corruption is never the source of any crisis what the fuck are you talking about? Do you even think?
For fuck's sake.
Colton Sullivan
See >The government has implemented price fixing, thus causing many businesses to simply not produce. It's not fucking rocket science.
Nathan Mitchell
>lives in a country with dolarized economy >blames corruption How is your free market doing?
Dominic Reyes
The difference between capitalism and communism is this: in capitalism, the poor are fat. In communism, the poor die. You cannot remove hierarchies of wealth; you can only change how the lower class live. By and far, capitalism makes everyone, including the lower class, better off.
Case in point: I am poor. I live with my disabled mother while pushing myself through grad school. Nonetheless, I own a nice smartphone, a nice laptop, have a relatively fast internet connection, and I eat meat every day. Though I am not obese, I am slightly above a healthy weight level, which suggests that I am getting more nutrients than my body actually needs. If necessary, I could consume less, but I choose not to because I eat not only to survive, but for pleasure. That is a luxury that most Venezuelans are not able to afford. And I am able to do this despite being poor.
>socialism works only if there's no corruption Corruption will always exist, and it is impossible to get rid of it, because it is a part of human nature. Therefore, socialism never works.
Ryan Rivera
How are people supposed to sell food when currency and price controls make selling at a loss the only option? There is no good reason to produce shit at a loss, that's why US companies are fleeing without even packing their bags.
Logan Hall
>Corruption is not measurable and corruption is never the source of any crisis Do you know what a Kleptocracy is?
Connor Foster
Because everything is top secret with you.
I wonder why you don't want other countries use encryption.
Not at all, the distributors want big bucks and you think they are heroes.
Ryan Hall
>fuck all of your first world countries that don't allow people to escape.
the problem is you poor dirty brown people just bring along the same shitty cultures with you that made your countries of origin garbage.
Isaiah Rodriguez
You are implying there is no one selling food there, but restaurants are always packed.
Distributors are rats selecting who to sell.
Dominic Perez
>the difference is I like capitalism and I don't like communism
Ok, you're entitled to your opinion but you should back it with real arguments the next time.
>Kleptocracy
The new boogieman of the right wing? HAhahaha are you fucking kidding me? Is this the lowest point of right wing thought in history?
Honestly who could make such a stupid concept? A mediocre cnn periodist, may be? A bonehead such as yourself? There is no hope for humanity.
Evan Martinez
When are you people going to man up and actually implement socialism? The factory owners are hoarding the food while the poor starve.
Time to take over the supplies and the factories.
Easton Campbell
Venezuelans are coward like most of the south americans.
The world is falling apart and they do nothing, even when they know big business and right wingers are killing them.
Don't expect a French revolution.
Brandon Allen
And what nations aren't cowards?
People are, by default, conservatives, it's the easy side. That's how it is. Those who have to fight conservadurism will always be on the losing side as the effort needed for transformation is manyfold of that needed for conserving the current state of reality. Humans are cowards and always will be, that's why transformations take so long at a large scale.
Austin Wood
Good luck, because muh bootstraps economical mobility never works. Poor people in almost every case stay poor the rest of their lives.
This free market bullshit you're spouting is a bunch of fantasy anyway. It only works because almost every society is currently capitalist and subsidizing their own industries. Even with literal billions of tax dollars being poured into big businesses and banks, it's still only hanging by a thread.
Look into behavioral economics if you want to learn about economics in real-world scenarios.
Angel Brown
Restaurants don't have price controls.
Let's say that you spend $2 to make 1KG of chicken. You get two options: Sell it to a supermarket for $1 or sell it to a restaurant for $10. Which option would you choose?
Aiden Barnes
I thing south america is afraid of consequences. I blame "Operation Condor".
When you see all those murders during the right wing dictatorships you understand.
Camden Diaz
Over 30 thousand just in Argentina, here is a clip but made in Paraguay (maybe NSFW, it shows corpses and shootings) youtube.com/watch?v=71szSeyayhw
Camden Baker
>and how much blame goes to the brain tumor he had Chavez died of stomach cancer, you imbecile.
Elijah Wilson
You have every right to be afraid. What the US-sponsored fascists have done in some of your countries is absolutely horrifying. In many cases you died just for having leftist ideas.
I can only hope enough people manage to organize and demand actual socialist policies.
David Rivera
>You have every right to be afraid. What the US-sponsored fascists have done in some of your countries is absolutely horrifying. In many cases you died just for having leftist ideas. >I can only hope enough people manage to organize and demand actual socialist policies. Go peddle your white guilt elsewhere. If socialist governments back in the 70s were even a bit competent, there wouldn't have been coups in the first place.
Caleb Bailey
;_;
Thomas Bell
Name a communist society where the poor are able to live in as much wealth as they do in the US.
I'm not talking about economic mobility here, I'm talking about the living conditions of the poor. The poor in Venezuela do not eat well. The poor in North Korea do not eat well. The poor in Cuba do not eat well. The poor in the US are FAT. Do you know what that means? It means we are getting way too god damn much nutrition.
Aiden Flores
Thanks, I can only hope people get at least smarter.
Oh shut up, Allende was an hero. Sabotaging trains and other transports was a bastard strategy of the right wing.
You, don't excuse the crimes of the right.
Cameron King
>even when they know big business and right wingers are killing them. The ones killing them are the government, which utterly refuses to listen to reason and implement even the most basic reforms to fix the economy a bit.
Seriously: Maduro asked Unasur (Chavez-created alternative to the OAS, minus US and Canada) for an economic reform plan. His cronies rejected it out of ideology, kicking out any pragmatic advisers still left, out of them being "traitors to the Revolution". caracaschronicles.com/2016/08/08/serranomics/
Maduro's chief economist is the kind of imbecile who believes inflation is caused by "class struggle".
Justin Bell
Fuck off, even if the governments were incompetent, it should be overthrown by its own people, not by some marginal right-wing fascist group sponsored by the US. Reagan even commited treason just to supply the Contra with weapons.
Ryan Kelly
Capitalists can't stand see a country be successful, so they invoke every power they've got to deunify, destroy and demobilize such a country.
Levi Nguyen
>You, don't excuse the crimes of the right. You, don't excuse the crimes of the left.
James Davis
I thought the contras fought exploding soldiers and massive hearts.
Bentley Brown
no he overrates american crony capitalism
its not illegal and immoral antihuman bullshit
Tyler Thomas
Pueblo no tumba gobierno
Ayden Lewis
You motherfuckers have no right to even talk about communism. Have any of you ever been to a communist country? I have been to Cuba like 3 times and I can say that communism is disgusting. There people are hungry, poor, and struggle to get by, you have to be there to see there struggle and it's awful. They have no freedom of expression, and are held back as a people.
Noah Clark
>implying >implying
I remember how Paraguay got BTFO for trying to raise local industry. Guess what size they had before the triple alliance war.
Eli Morgan
>Have any of you ever been to a communist country? They haven't. Isn't that obvious?
Christian White
>implying venezuela is >implying cuba is >implying even china is by now
Mason Myers
What's funny is that there is less hunger in Cuba than there is in the states though. And those people have way better health care. I've been to cuba too.
And i'm not even a commie.
Jace James
China hasn't been for the longest time though. Venezuela never was and Cuba is the purest of the three at the current time.
Colton Fisher
>What's funny is that there is less hunger in Cuba than there is in the states though You can't be serious...
Robert Cruz
I'm so glad that communists can never succeed.
You people are delusional.
Nathaniel Cox
Yeah, because capitalism does wonders.
Fuck that, I am anarchists and I know this isn't true free market. Or what the fuck is copyright?
BTFO
Oliver Robinson
I'm pretty glad they managed to get 8 hour workdays and children out of factories.
Nathan Ward
>In america we're not hungry, we have mcdonalds and xbox xDDD
I'll pay you a thousand bucks for every underfed person you saw in Cuba.
The fact that houses are old and precarious and cars are all models from the 70s doesn't make them any hungrier.
Hunger is a serious problem in the states.
Alexander Jackson
Your trolling, you must be. People are starving, and the health care is total shit, it is free though.
Nathan Bailey
>8 hour workdays and children out of factories China though...
Aaron Rodriguez
Foreal, especially this huge faggot By the way, capitalism has done pretty fucking good, much better than stupid Communism.
Matthew Richardson
What's with all the spics on Sup Forums?
B U I L D U I L D
Noah Rodriguez
>all those communists >in a consumerism board W-what happened??
Elijah Cook
I bet you like shitty licenses because you can cuck young programmers asshole.
Joseph Lee
>implying we are all spanish
>implying we are all communists
Parker Sanchez
...
Leo Johnson
>even if the governments were incompetent, it should be overthrown by its own people You do know that Maduro has all but closed the chance of a peaceful resolution to the conflict, right? At this point in time, Augusto Pinochet is more of a democrat than the Venezuelan pukes: >Free elections >Independent judiciary >Independent electoral commission >Acceptance of results
>not by some marginal right-wing fascist group sponsored by the US All right, then. How can you be sure that any protest movement is "the legitimate expression of the people" and not the actions of a "right-wing fascist group sponsored by the US"? Because the latter is the left's go-to definition of any protest that opposes them.
Also, how do you overthrow an illegitimate government peacefully? Key word here is "overthrow".
Christopher Taylor
So you are saying the coup is alright and the boycot is a good thing?
Also, how do you define a protest organized and orchestrated by the right? They want to overthrown the left when they were LEGITIMATE elected.
Meanwhile, the "left" does shit in the face of tragedy. Don't expect a french revolution.
Justin Allen
It should come from within its own country. No one said anything about peacefully. Outside countries supplying arms to rebel groups doesn't really work out that well.
Christian Gomez
>communism is shit but we'll always spend a shitton of resources to sabotage every socialist attempt just because it is fun.
Right.
Gabriel Hall
>Outside countries supplying arms to rebel groups doesn't really work out that well. The only ones doing that in Venezuela are the Cubans supporting the government, its militias and any thug who supports Chavez for a bag of flour and a chinese-made bike. There isn't a thing like the "Contra" in Venezuela. There is no armed organized group from the opposition's side.
Jose Hall
No one outside Venezuela has even given a strong opinion on it. The hundreds of protests happening every month in Venezuela isn't a Jewish conspiracy.
Ethan Foster
Guess where this picture was taken from? I immediately google it after you tell that lie.
