Why is Linux so fragmented?

Why is Linux so fragmented?
There's a reason many developers don't even bother with Linux.

At the very least they could collaborate and unite to use one package manager to make developing for Linux across distros easier?

Other urls found in this thread:

oeis.org/A048670
tcnj.edu/~hagedorn/papers/JacobPaper.pdf
stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Most, if not all software development work is done on *NIX systems because it's pain free and isn't tied down to one company's ecosystem.

You learn one unix-like, you know them all.

Linux is so fragmented because so many developers use it.

Fuck off poettering go make more shit software and get linus to tell you to fuck off

and for small companies, it removes the need to pay for msdn licenses

fragmentation is a good thing

>many developers don't even bother with Linux

Who are these people?

>one package manager to make developing for Linux across distros easier?
Snaps
Guix

Calm down windows

Ubuntu and Red Hat both have huge developer and user communities alike, and Linux as a whole isn't really that fragmented, with those two and their varying derivatives making up a big portion of the actual Linux user base.

The mind-boggling proliferation of irrelevant distributions is a natural consequence of the "community" nature of free software development, where people tend to fork projects for even the most trivial reasons.

>You learn one unix-like, you know them all
Not really, maybe if all you do is run a text editor and write code in heavily abstracted shit like Java or something, but there are definite differences even among Linux distributions in some cases, let alone *nixes in general. Having a background in Debian or Gentoo isn't going to make you instantly familiar with Solaris, for example.

There is only one way to save linux.

Make it proprietary. Eliminate all distros and have one (1) version of linux ran by one publicly traded company. Prove me wrong.

blue,,, blue,,,, blue,,, blue,,, abloobloobloo... sorry babbysonbabby, i cant hear your other the sound of my computer doing exactly what i tell it to and not having to troubleshoot a single goddamn issue for over a year. keep crying billy boy gates, keep spreading your pathetic rumors steven harold palmers balmers. im killin it over here and its never been better

Why are cars so fragmented?
There's a reason people don't even bother with mainstream automobiles.

At the very least they could collaborate and unite to use one engine to make repairing across auto makes easier?

THIS IS HOW STUPID YOU SOUND PAID MICROSOFT TROLLS

NOW GET OUT AND DO NOT RETURN, YOUR THREADS ARE AGAINST Sup Forums RULES.

I HAVE TOLD YOU TIME AND AGAIN, THIS BULLSHIT HAS TO STOP

Sup Forums OWNERS: BLOCK THE ENTIRE MICROSOFT-OWNED IP RANGE. Sup Forums IS UNDER ATTACK BY THIS SHIT.

The one thing stopping many normies from using the GNU system is that there is not a package installer as easy as say .msi and most software vendors only distribute source code which to an average user, they don't even know what a fucking source code is, but on Winshit and Mac they both have pretty simple installers which makes it so that even your grandma could install software just like that, I plan on making an installer some time to silence this and make it easier to use, more and more users need to come to GNU and become more commercialized, if it doesn't then freedom won't spread and it'll become obscure, we have taken huge leaps and bounds though, you used to have to manually compile the kernel just to get the system to run and do a bunch of shit that an average user would dismiss as far too complicated, the only way for the GNU/Linux desktop to advance is for someone or the whole community to simplify the living shit out of it, I think it's fine to have complex dists like Gentoo and Slackware which are supposed to be hard but for the average everyday user there should be a super simple easy way to use your OS without having to drop to the terminal which scares a lot of non tech savvy users
t. proud Debian user

So include a tutorial on how to install software "the linux way" so they can see how much simpler it is the problem with .exe and .msi is that no one can regulate then to ensure they dont include shitware and most normies dont pay attention so ahitware prevails

>windows
>go online
>dive into the sea of botnet sites and bullshit to find something you want
>it's probably a fucking botnet
>download it
>open it
>CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK CLICKCLICKCLICK through endless Next screens
>you click past a screen that tells you it's going to install even more shitware
>wait forever for some hidden processes to fuck over your computer while installing this shitware
>probably tells you that you need to restart your computer
>probably won't start until it detects you've restarted your computer
>start up
>forces some horrible EULA on you and installs even more shitware
>has to close and restart the program after installing a forced background process to add even more botnets
>run it finally
>it's garbage
>try to uninstall it
>it begs you not to with several nagscreens
>finally uninstalls
>leaves 400GB of shit behind as well as all the shitware it installed

>gnu
>open package manager GUI
>search for program
>click install
>wait
>run program

Dumb fucking Microsoft paid trolls.

I agree with the shitware problem and I think there should be protection measures against that, but not everyone enjoys going the package manager route for persay getting the latest piece of software from the official vendor, that's what most Windows users are accustomed to so if that was implemented I think in a safe away to avoid the shitware problem you brought up then I think it would attract more normalfags to it

>HURR WE HAVE TO DO THINGS THE WINDOWS WAY
And that is why you fail.

I fucking dread MS faggot, and when I do use Windows for school or whatever it's easier to install free software from a trusted site from an msi or exe installer and I have the latest version, and trust me not everyone likes the fucking package manager, I don't use my package manager, I compile all of my software from source because I like having the latest release packages without extra huge ass dependencies

>HURR WE CAN'T POSSIBLY SIMPLIFY OUR OS JUST A LITTLE BIT FOR AN ACTUAL YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP
this is why GNU/Linux won't ever be commercialized and mainly used if we keep this attitude, remember the goal is to defeat Microshit and bring everyone to free software

>There is only one way to destroy linux.

FTFY.

No, it's not.

Linux is already commercial. Less than 10% of kernel contributions are from unpaid devs now, and it's the most popular OS in the world for serious applications.

Who cares about consumers. They are all idiots anyway.

I actually care about the idiot faggots who don't even know how to use a web browser because do you really want Windows and MacOS to reign as the most used OS by most everyone? I find that a bleak reality that is disastrous for one's security and freedom, so pandering and spoon feeding these faggots I feel is the only way to more popularize the OS, also ChromeOS which is largely nonfree and isn't GNU/Linux is more commercialized which is terrible, that wasn't the goal, I have never seen an ad for a GNU/Linux OS but rather more shitty Microsoft and Mac ads, all you ever fucking hear is DUDE WINDOWS VS MAC WHAT EVEN IS LINUX LOL IS THAT LIKE CSI HACKER STUFF, it pisses me off to no end and it pisses prominant people like Linus Torvalds (arrogant but prominant) that GNU/Linux hasn't really taken off commercially that much

Somebody forgot his meds

>simplify
MICROSOFT PAID TROLLS, I HAVE WARNED YOU.
NOW LEAVE.

Nigga what, Ubuntu and Mint and other noob friendly distros comes with what is basically a damn app store. For most normies it's way easier than installing programs from random websites.

>open app store
>click on program you want to install
>done

How is this complicated?

I literally protested with the FSF at MS's Headquarters, how am I a paid MS troll, paid MS trolls do actually exist here and in other sites trust me but I am here to help give you freedom and give everyone freedom

like I said, not everyone likes a package manager, some package managers have outdated software and to get official ones you can't get a simple installer for things, I in fact compile from source everything just because I don't like package managers, and most package managers including APT and Synaptic leave unneccesarry bloat along with the program which an installer wouldn't do that

>not everyone likes a package manager
Normies do.

normies also like getting specific software from a vendor that isnt avialiable in your repositories without having to grab the fucking source code, good example of this is GNUPG, Qbittorrent and many others, they provide easy to use installers for Windows and MacOS but they only provide source releases or tell you to fuck off back to
>>>/packagemanager/
which has an old version of the package and usually lacks features and also installs unneccesary random bloat

And you think normies care about any of that?
You give them way more credit than you should.

There's are the people who when then see a toolbar during a shady installer think "that sounds useful".

>Why is Linux so fragmented?

Because of infighting and egos. No one in the Linux community wants to work together to develop a good product.

That's because there never will be ONE good product, and to try to will only make it worse.

See Windows and OSX.

there's just one thing i don't understand
why not package all library dependencies into a tar.gz package, that could be installed under /opt, and have a runscript that loads them into PATH before other stuff?
wouldn't this be 100% portable?

because this is, like, how teamspeak packages for linux
and it works flawlessly on every distro i tried

12 yo fgt.
>I don't use my package manager
>I compile all of my software from source
i could tell you how compiling your own software has nothing to do with using a package manager. or that building from source does not change any dependency one bit. but youll understand eventually, maybe when you turn 16.

>No one in the Linux community wants to work together to develop a good product.
>linux
>the biggest open-source collaborative project in history

dont slide me you shitlord

Look up POSIX you fucking monkey

>accuse an os that doesnt fragment of being "fragmented"
>shill for an os that stores your files in a pattern that looks like birdshot fired at a wooden wall

What if windows 10 is baby proofed not because of the users, but because of the developers of all of this shitware?

I dont know why, but this image makes me happy.

I mean lets get real for a moment. You install windows 10 in about 45 minutes and for most linuxes its about the same but remember. Biggest base linuxes are about 1 gigabytes or 2 while windows 10 can be more than 5 gigabytes of data. And what happens when you open them. On linux there are about 2 functional buttons, 3 are nonfunctional and in those two buttons there are some pictures to play with. Maybe slide down or up. On windows though, you feel like a god. Its professional its fast, its all functional. You have a godlike user interface. The thing that linux does not have. You have those two buttons in linux, but you still search google for codes to write in terminal. Linux is free because its not worth a penny. Nobody would sell a paper without taking the money. Just not sure why people still buy android while windows phone does 10 times more. Trust me. When you work with windows you know some genius ground breaker dedicated himself to give you an operational os

What is op shilling?

This image aptly describes the situation.

windows I guess

Take your meds Shaniqua

ay yo hold up

2.5/10

Google with Chromebooks have pretty much done this and for the first time in 20 years Linux desktop computers for the general public have been available in stores and actually usable.

>When you work with windows you know some genius ground breaker dedicated himself to give you an operational os
...and failed horribly.

...

conflicts.
if everyone decided to statically link their shit, package managers would be way less complicated and executables would be bigger.
but with the dynamic linking that's currently the de facto standard we need those libraries and if two things depend on different versions of the same library you need a system that differentiates between them.

if you were to install shitty software from a pajeets .tar.gz, then it may depend on XYZ 1.1 and refer to it in its tar as XYZ
the other pajeet's software needs XYZ 1.7, which behaves differently. he refers to it as XYZ too.
when you first install one via script and then the other, what does the pajeet's script do?
does he bother to check if you have something like that? who knows? maybe he'll just overwrite it.
managing your libraries is an important job which you should not outsource to application developers. you get the package manager which you trust the most and you'll always be in control as opposed to running some random asshole's script.

why do you post this image every day
who is she?

>There's a reason many developers don't even bother with Linux.
>At the very least they could collaborate and unite to use one package manager to make developing for Linux across distros easier?
Like BSD does? That less developers bother with?

>Security through obscurity
>Muh sekrit club
>1337 hax0rs don't want to be united, United = botnet
>Linux users don't want a system that's easy to use, the whole point is to spend more time on the OS than getting work done
>In the professional world this means inflated work hours that you're pretending to do something productive
>Higher-ups and co-workers can't make sense of your matrix screens, so they assume you're doing something important
>Really just xorg.conf

>she

I wish someone talked to me about linux, all those months installing the right distro (all suck), compiling kernel (lmao kys), building programs from source (wew lad), installing obscure missing libraries, no drivers etc., all that to find it unusable. I'm using Windows™ 7 now

>Why is Linux so fragmented?
Because Linux is an OS where if you don't like something, you can change it or make your own alternative. Cue thousands of people doing exactly that.

On Windows you have no choice but to accept the garbage Microsoft shits down your throat. On OS X you have even less choice.

Hence zero fragmentation there. It's a power/control thing. Give power to the users and it will fragment, because at the end of the day everybody has different tastes.

this

It has both good and bad sides

The good is that you always have alternatives to pick up if you don't like something

The bad is that it hurts compatibility

Did you try solus? My favorite distro now.

What wasn't working for you?

all of this is unnecessary with gentoo

you could have listened to Sup Forums

no, I'm done with linux, I said never to bother again with that, well maybe if need A FUCKING BEOWULF CLUSTER for my heavy math calculations, but for normal use I choose the jewindows. linux is good for reserchers

>A FUCKING BEOWULF CLUSTER for my heavy math calculations
Bullshit. What would you ever need a cluster for?

for heavy math calculations. I wished for a cluster when doing some of my NP-hard math reserch.

>tfw no supercomuter

What though, like what do you do that a normal computer cant calculate?

here is an example, Jacobstahl function oeis.org/A048670 , this guy calculated firts 49 cases tcnj.edu/~hagedorn/papers/JacobPaper.pdf

>With a cluster of thirty computers (GNU/Linux 2.4 Ghz) machines, the calculation of h(49) took approximately two months.

which is really impressive, cus brute force can give you only first 11 cases. still the problem is exponential

Nice. So is this a hobby, work, or school?
What is the actual real world application for math problems this long and complex?

>You learn one unix-like, you know them all.
So you're saying we should all use Macs?

Its not as fragmented as you think. All these little shitty distros like Sabayon Linux or whatever are just minor forks off the major 4 or 5 distros where all the work is happening.

The major ones are
Ubuntu
Debian (yes they both need to be there, fuck you)
Gentoo
Arch
Fedora

That's all there is. I'm in favour of killing off Arch and if Ubuntu wasn't so dominant (it easily has the majority of market share, like 2/3 of all Linux people are on Ubuntu) I'd kill it too. Fedora probably should die too, and Arch (we'll take that wiki, thanks). That would leave Debian and Gentoo, and since no one uses Gentoo except memelords that would leave Debian as the only actual distro where development is still happening.

I would summarize Fedora as “Red Hat” (also includes CentOS/RHEL/etc.) instead

According to stackexchange - on their user-base the most used are in the following order:
Ubuntu is tops among them with 12.3% of the entire OS market for developers.
Debian 1.9%
Mint 1.7%
Fedora 1.4%

in general:
mac os x 26.2%
windows 7 22.5%
windows 10 20.8% ( right under Linux if we do the total in % )

2016 statistics.

Why not use GPUs instead?

I'm a math graduate, it's a hobby for now.

>What is the actual real world application for math problems this long and complex?

in short: expanding our knowledge, some of them have more immediate profound value, TSP for example. this one concerns prime numbers, well I don't have to tell you about the significance of primes?

>If we were to hypothetically kill off every distro except one, that would be the only distro where development still happens
Uh huh, tell me more

Arch, Ubuntu, Gentoo and Fedora are all popular because they fill a niche that would be unfilled if you killed off everything except Debian.

(For example, I personally used debian for about a month before I simply couldn't stand it and looked for alternatives, which in my case was gentoo)

Also, plenty of development goes into other distros that you haven't mentioned as well, for example Slackware, NixOS, openSuSE, etc.). Hell, openSuSE is big enough to warrant inclusion on your “list”

tl;dr your post is full of wishful thinking

As you can see - Windows is losing its lead anyway - less and less developers are interested in it and instead switch on UNIX based systems.

>stackexchange
i.e. pajeets shoveling out enterprise boilerplate

I left opensuse and Slackware off the lost because they have a tiny userbase and no one cares about them. The ones I listed have significantly large user bases, they're not going anywhere.

Where did you get these statistics from? Do they have a breakdown by sub-site (stackoverflow, serverfault etc.)?

Why does it have to be the main desktop? Who gives a shit?

stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016

there are many reasons, one is probably the gain in computation is miserable considering the programming you have to do. not every algorithm is easy to paralelise, or you don't have 100 cutting edge 1000$ GPUs, or GPU architecture it self is not suitable for this specific algorithm.

>implying being fragmented isn't a feature

There are many advantages to the fragmentation of GNU/Linux

When a piece of software takes a wrong turn or is under the control of a single corporate entity (e.g. Gnome) there are others ready to take their place. Same goes for software that is good now but may turn sour in the future (e.g. systemd).

New ideas and developments can be iterated faster because there is not an obligation to increase market share or shareholder profits.

Lastly, but more importantly, fragmentation is keeping proprietary software out of GNU/Linux.

What's the point of using a freedom respecting and enabling OS if you are going to use proprietary software that hinders innovation and freedom and is designed to raise artificial barriers to extort money from users and increase shareholder profits?

The reason you use GNU/Linux shouldn't be just technical excellence or cost benefits but also deeply philosophical. Globalism and capitalism is heading quickly towards a complete melt down and the existence of the Free software movement may contribute to transforming the society and make sure that the end of capitalism will not also be the end of civilization.

Even if right now using Free software is a minor inconvenience to using proprietary software (which it isn't) it's a very small price to pay for the benefits in the future to each individual and to society as a whole.

Ubuntu is so outated and crazy patched that it is horroble to port or do any security checks with it. I once had to argue with a canonical clown why it is bad, when hmac returns 1,2,3..

Install solus instead. Budgie Is The Best desktop

Thanks user, this survey is pretty fascinating. Here's what I picked up on:

>93% of developers are male
>70% are self-taught
>rust is the most loved language
>F# pays the most

editor breakdown:
>notepad++ is the most popular editor among students
>visual studio is the most popular editor among braindead web devs
>vim is the most popular editor among “data scientists”

>linux edging stupidly close to dethroning windows 7

Well yea people that think they're the jack of all trades they're going to use tools that they believe are also jack of all trades - it's just an psychological extension.

I think people should specialize on what they excel into - and just know how other things work tho. But it's a free world ( partially )

Notepad++ seems to be decent overall, been using it for years.

Developers choose Linux more than any other OS compared to normies.

Stackoverflow statistics show that Windows has about a 30% DECREASE in market share amongst developers compared to their desktop share. OS X has a 2-fold INCREASE, and Linux has a 10-fold INCREASE.

OS DEV MKT INC
Lin 20% 2% x10
OSX 23% 12% x2
Win 55% 85% /1.5


Linux is the OS of choice amongst developers.

Hi Ikey

>steven harold palmers balmers
loled

>At the very least they could collaborate and unite to use one package manager to make developing for Linux across distros easier?

Why not agree to use a pre existing one like deb or rpm instead of making new ones?

when something people don't like happens to a foss project, someone forks it and nothing changes
see: oracle zfs > openzfs, openoffice > libreoffice, opensolaris > openindiana, etc, etc

Oh my god you're right. Also Android.

Notepad++ ultimate comfy

There should be a game development distro

And all the audio shit seriously needs to be simplified on linux

Audio on linux is a clusterfuck

Splitting efforts in useless forks is not a good thing.

just do audio shit over sdl or openal as a game dev

it's easy and works on any audio setup

Well, package managers proliferate because they have different purposes.

rpm and deb are built around inflexible, single-configuration binary packages. (And I personally don't see much of a distinction between rpm and deb either, it's just slightly different metadata). The fact that we have two is mostly a historical accident.

ebuild (portage) and nix are based around the idea of the package manager being the build system. They're also pretty similar, with nix mostly having some incremental improvements and most importantly a redesigned language. (Nix is also based around the idea of builds being reproducable and pure, which portage is not)

Snappy is built around the idea of bringing phone-style “apps” to the desktop, i.e. they're self-contained (including all of the hilarious security issues and not-so-hilarious compatibility issues that entails). It's basically a project destined to fail.

Most of the new package management formats that are invented today are invented to fill some new niche.

easy there Raoul