Should we still consider GNU/Linux distros that don't use systemd "Linux" distros...

Should we still consider GNU/Linux distros that don't use systemd "Linux" distros? I mean they're pretty much another OS at this point and they're no longer contributing to the core of GNU/Linux distros that are actually useful for real purposes. I think they should be considered the "hobbyist" alternatives to GNU/Linux.

They are X/SystemD/GNU/Linux distributions

>hobbyist alternatives to GNU/Linux.
I can agree

If systemd ever gave me any problems I'd consider switching, but nothing has ever come up. Linus uses it

>systemd
Systemd comes from Red Hat. Red Hat, in the Linux world, is the company with the largest ties to the US government and the various state security organizations around the world--including NSA. The US government (DoD) is Red Hat's number one customer. Red Hat also happens to be Lennart Poettering's employer.
The Linux kernel, I believe, is clean. As long as Linus lives, you're not going to subvert the kernel. Let's just assume that is true for the sake of argument. If you can't get into the kernel, what is your next option? You need something low level (PID 1?), ubiquitous, and vast in scope and complexity.
This describes systemd perfectly. It was almost like it was designed to touch as much of a Linux system as possible. It has hooks into some many different subsystems and APIs that it's almost impossible to build a modern distro with current software without pulling in systemd as a dependency. This happened almost overnight, and I think there are malicious forces at work here.
We must remember Heart Bleed. Heart Bleed appeared to be an innocent mistake, and it was a tiny typo in one line of a C program. If it's possible to do that much damage with a tiny little error, imagine when you have an attack surface as wide as systemd, written in a language like C that is almost designed to produce security holes when not written absolutely perfectly--and humans are not absolutely perfect programmers.
Systemd is dangerous. It's too big to be audited as quickly as its developed. It's complexity adds as much attack surface to a Linux system as the kernel itself. We can't get away from these facts. Shitfighting about init systems is a waste of our time. Sytemd is horrible because of where it comes from and how complex it is. Backdoors will be hidden in it.

Heartbleed was really fucked up. I'm surprised people seem to have just forgotten about it.

>systemd[ick] up the ass

tldr: tinfoil shit

top post, I capped it

>tldr: tinfoil shit
Redhat employee detected in full damage control mode.

Your game is up. We know.

The "tinfoil" meme doesn't work anymore, with the snowden leaks we have a very good reason to be paranoid.

I use funtoo with openrc.

I actually switched over to FreeBSD over this.

So let's go one by one.

What's your first problem with systemd? - as a daily user.

Not him but what the fuck dude, he wrote a giant post outlining his concerns with systemd. None were about daily use issues.

All I see is philosophical bullcrap with no real life effect.

>So let's go one by one.
Nah you can try reading BTW I didn't even write it but that's why I didn't even look at systemd.

People resisted it on the mailing lists I read and they were promptly BANNED by the same people now shoving landwhales to lecture us about our "privilege".

The corporate takeover is bare for everyone to see.

Use Gentoo, Slackware, linux mint (for now) or FreeBSD/OpenBSD.

systemd is kill. Fuck Redhat and fuck Pottering.

>no real life effect
privacy matters to most of us pajeet

Are you implying systemd is a spyware?
Do you realise that systemd is used on FSF endorsed distros?

>Nah you can try reading
See Of course you didn't use systemd, you are a typical bandwagon switcher.

>systemd is kill
lol at least read the OP

>Are you implying systemd is a spyware?
i don't need to prove it, it has a huge attack surface, hooks into too many subsystems and came out of now where. and no one fucking wanted it

>Do you realise that systemd is used on FSF endorsed distros?
and? just because they only care about software licenses doesn't mean we are just as autistic

i note you're damage controlling for two people. when shilling at least try to be subtle m8

Until this actually happens it's just a conspiracy theory. There's a much simpler explanation.

Money.

Red Hat likes money. systemd helps them make more money because it gives them features that enterprise and governments want.

Don't multiply complexities unnecessarily.

>lol at least read the OP
>tfw he's not from here
You need to be more discrete at shilling, you're probably OP trying to shove systemd down our throats.

It works on pleddit, doesn't work on here

Linux kernel has a huge attack surface as well. It doesn't make Linux spyware, junior.

Do you even know what spyware means?

Top quality argument

>i don't need to prove it
Kek, Sup Forums in a nutshell

>Until this actually happens it's just a conspiracy theory. There's a much simpler explanation.
Nah, that thought terminating cliche is retarded.

>Until we find a bug in this system it's perfectly secured
No, that's not how it fucking works. Take a first course on computer security and come back.

>There's a much simpler explanation.
>Don't multiply complexities unnecessarily.
You realise Occam's razor is only valid for scientific models right?

>Red Hat likes money
No shit and the government is its biggest funder. They like to monitor people.

>It's fine that Linux codes a giant assfuck monolithic kernel that controls all interactions between the software and the hardware
>SYSTEMD IS A GIANT ASSFUCK MONOLITHIC OPERATION SYSTEM THAT CONTROLS ALL INTERACTIONS WITH THE DAEMONS. DANGER IT IS DEFINITELY A BOTNET PROGRAMMED BY GEORGE BUSH AND ISRAEL TO INJECT FLUORIDE IN OUR WATER AND MAKE ALUMINUM FOIL ILLEGAL

If you're that opposed your operating system progressing or being useful, why don't you use FreeBSD?

>Until this actually happens it's just a conspiracy theory. There's a much simpler explanation.
>Money.
These two are not exclusive. Your argument is invalid.
It was also a conspiracy theory that NSA bugs the whole internet. It was also a conspiracy theory that NSA derails security initiatives and that NSA puts backdoors into encryption standards etc etc.
We know how that shit turned out.

>He doesn't know basic system security
>LEL its secure faggots prove me wrong
>hurff what is heartbleed
>use systemd goyim, we got this kid programmer to roll it out for you

The only justification for systemd is that it shaves a second off boot time. Why the fuck do I care about that when my linux machines are running with 800 hours up time?

Get the fuck out of here.

>hartbleed
>somehow related to systemd
Where do you learn your buzzwords from?

>you're opposed to progress
you sound like a cultist. he doesn't trust systemd, so therefore he believes in aliens?

fuck off kike

It's the other way around, OP. GNU/Linux distros are GNU distros that use the Linux kernel. SystemD/GNU/Linux distros (or simply SystemD/Linux distros - soon enough) are distros of a hybrid SystemD-GNU operating system that uses the Linux kernel.

Only when the Linux kernel develops dependencies on SystemD is your statement correct.

>The government injected a lot of money to make an operating system that would spy on Linux's precious 2% desktop marketshare.

You must be very important and interesting.

FreeBSD has its own version of systemd.

>concept from other system module
>i can't relate the two
>lets shove the word buzzword in my manager will like that
>$0.10 has been deposited into pajeet's account
fucking poopmasters

Manjaro is better than linux mint. Don't use plain arch, though.
Other alternatives include alpine, GUIX and CRUX.

>The government injected a lot of money to make an operating system that would spy on Linux's 98% cluster/server marketshare.
ftfy faggot

Can some one translate this underage gibberish for me?

>2%
Try 99.9%.

>that filename
WOW. You're not even trying to hide it, you're a fucking shill, kys cunt

Why are people shilling for systemd? It makes no fucking sense? Who gets up in the morning and gets motivated to defend a fucking homosexual's pet project that everyone hates

It's unreal I think you guys are on to something, I'm going to dig more into this

Sup Forums has been talking about these backdoors for two years now. Are they finally here?
Besides, systemd is running atop a kernel that is having multiple CVEs each month. What do you need nackdoors in there for?

>Are they finally here?
No.

>pajeet doesn't understand

...

>Linux
>98% server market share
How do I know your a NEET?

>Are they finally here?
systemd's taking over linux since 2 years ago desu
and yeah it's the perfect place to put a backdoor
no one wants it, i think OP is being ironic

it was shoved into linux around the time that they had "women in computing" meme being pushed around, probably a coincidence but still suspicious

Well look, there's been a great advancement in the efficiency and stability of Linux, you have no evidence based in fact that it's bad and yet here you are being a keyboard warrior about how terrible it is and it must be avoided, to the point where the thought that the OP was a troll didn't even seem to cross your mind. (I am and it was)

systemd was a necessary step to make Linux more responsive to the tech industry's needs. That's all it is. You can doubt that it's safe, you can educate people about the risks of monolithic components (but again, like I said, why not do that about Linux? They're practically in bed with Microsoft nowadays), but stop being a fucking clown about how it's a system by "kikes" made explicitly to spy on us.

...

How the fuck do you even spy on a server? Do you log a random 500 TB blob of its traffic and see if there's any dick pics in there?

You guys don't even think about the approach or purpose of the bad deeds you accuse big corporations and the government to do. You just think that if it's physically plausible, then it must be true because all bad things that are plausible just happen.

>it's the perfect place to put a backdoor
How?

McFucking kill yourself

Read Or tl;dr broad attack surface, impossible to audit, controlled by shady company with NSA links

>There are no servers in the whole world aside from 500 supercomputer clusters
Kek, try harder next time

>broad attack surface
Elaborate

>impossible to audit
Why

> controlled by shady company with NSA links
Controlled by the one company without which there'd be no 90% of kernel and userspace development

You do realize how many projects Red Hat contributes to? Also how has it a broad attack surface? Because it has its own NTP and DHCP server?

It's not 98% but its getting there

>impossible to audit

>False. Some people try to imply that the shell was a good debugger. Well, it isn't really. In systemd we provide you with actual debugging features instead. For example: interactive debugging, verbose tracing, the ability to mask any component during boot, and more. Also, we provide documentation for it.

>It's certainly well debuggable, we needed that for our own development work, after all. But we'll grant you one thing: it uses different debugging tools, we believe more appropriate ones for the purpose, though.

You can crack poor encryption by sending predictable packets. You can try repeat attacks and SQLi's. You can use a DDoS to mask another attack, or use the result of a DoS to create an attack vector (for example, maybe you can get the DB driver to break, revealing information like table names and filesystem architecture. It's also not too uncommon to reveal an admin password this way, especially with php sites).

If you have known backdoors, you can just use them to gain access to the server and either manually or automatically analyze the data, or select chunks you're interested in wholesale.

>data from 2012
>data from one VPS hosting company
Am I being baited here?

Okay but there is no known backdoor in systemd and your point is going to be moot until one is found.

>if I completely and utterly change the subject after writing the word "false", I WIIIIIN!
Pootering in a nutshell.

>CentOS 7 isn't even in there

jesus

>Completely disregards the whole reply after reading the first word.
0/10, denial syndrome

>In systemd we provide you with actual debugging features instead
> uses different debugging tools, we believe more appropriate ones for the purpose, though.

>he doesn't know what audit means
>he thinks it means debugging
>copy paste from Pottering's bs

>You do realize how many projects Red Hat contributes to
Plenty and all the bugs get chased off, but systemd is too big to audit and it's growing faster than any COULD hope to audit if such a project was to be started.

It's cancer and it's so unnecessary.

It's the other way around. Systemd is known to be full of bugs, so no matter what sane approach you use (threat model includes software providers, likelihood-directed/a posteriori trust modelling, or whitelist), you should be staying the fuck away from systemd until it has been audited by an independent party (or, actually, you should audit it yourself - problem is, systemd's design seems to make it a herculean task on purpose).

>Muh CentOS
Tear laden damage control from redhat is so delicious

>uses different debugging tools
Does it make it impossible to debug/audit?

What do people do other than finding bugs during audit?

Please tell me how systemd has a broad attack surface? You conveniently skipped that part

>0/10, denial syndrome
You still don't get what auditing is and neither does Pottering.

Auditing isn't debugging. LOL. It really shows his infantile mentality to confuse the two principles.

Why anyone would run anything written by that retard is beyond me.

>systemd's design seems to make it a herculean task on purpose
I'm not sure if it's a deliberate effort on Pottering's mind, but if I wanted to create a huge attack surface filled with bugs, I'd deliberately pick him out and put him on the job based on his previous work (PulseAudio).

>systemd is too big to audit and it's growing faster than any
Holy mother of tinfoil

Wow you sure waited for , didn't you

>What do people do other than finding bugs during audit?
>Debugging is auditing
>Not actually reading and proving code
>Never worked for a military contract
>Probably younger than 30
Pottering please.

According to you, no one uses enterprise distros such as RHEL or SLES (nor any distro made after 2012). Do you realize how retarded thay sounds?

Why would I trust the same man responsible for a turd like PulseAudio with my fucking system init?

Why would I want to give up runit when it is objectively superior in almost every way, and isn't developed by the same man responsible for PulseAudio?

>No debugging in auditing
>Gotta go ""Military"" to know this
What the actual fuck are you talking about?

>unnecessary

It's completely necessary for Red Hat. Do you think they were always going to give away the result of millions of dollars and millions of man-hours for free?

No, they were always waiting. Just like Microsoft, they eventually found a way to profit from the hundreds of thousands of freeloaders. What are you going to do when they release systemd-telemetry? systemd will /be/ the OS, it's designed to replace every possible low level piece of code just like google eventually did with android.

>Holy mother of tinfoil
>tinfoil
>>>/reddit/

Of course systemd is full of bugs. (Stop capitalizing it by the way). It's an operating system. A thing this size is bound to have bugs. That doesn't mean there are backdoors.

Pulse audio runs fine. I like pulse audio server

An audit consists of reading the source and looking for any bug, security flaws that aren't necessarily bugs, outright botnet behaviors (if a software is intentially opening a connection to some server and sending private data, it's not a bug), and design issues that make the software unsuitable for the purpose it's being audited (such as defaulting to silently using the google DNS when the main DNS can't be reached...).

>stop capitalizing words after periods!
>everyone is one person!
Huh... really made me think, lennart...

>Audit
>A software code audit is a comprehensive analysis of source code

>Debugging
>Debugging is the process of finding and resolving of defects that prevent correct operation of computer software

If you still can't distinguish between the two, grab a rope and end it all.

It's called systemd and pretending to yourself that anyone who argues with you is a Lennart shill makes you look like an insane piece of shit who's unable to have a rational argument without shitting their pants.

Like I said earlier you're welcome to criticize the model systemd is imposing but stop with your conspiracy theory bullshit. You are not only being frustratingly stupid, you're pushing people right into systemd's arms by showing them that people who oppose it are batshit insane.

>An audit consists of reading the source and looking for any bug
Agreed, that's where debugging comes from

>security flaws that aren't necessarily bugs
True, but almost all major bugs lead to security exploits

>design issues that make the software unsuitable for the purpose it's being audited
Good to know systemd is not such a software since it's being maintained by well paid professionals instead of basement dwelling neckbeards

And? The whole SDLC includes debugging into auditing itself

Poo in loottering.

>And? The whole SDLC includes debugging into auditing itself
Hahahahaghahga#J$*(TJg03 I'm dying, this is too much, you are the most retarded shill I've ever met on Sup Forums

I'm out. This has made my day

>Good to know systemd is not such a software
>The example given for that point is literally systemd's behavior

>This is what NEETs resort to when they are out of arguments

Posted from my Arch/Wayland/NetworkManager/GNOME3 machine :^)

>conspiracy theory bullshit
>batshit insane
>insane piece of shit
>Poop is very angry

>Hahahahaghahga#J$*(TJg03 I'm dying
Enjoy your heart failure.

How's the HRT going for you faggot?

Arch = permacuck distro

>This mad
lmao :^^) what distro the the NEET use?

Ten bucks says Gentoo

Why are you even suggesting that I'm an Indian? It would make sense if I was siding for something Microsoft did. But this is just like a random "insult" from your shitposting template database.

Toppest of keks

>MUH 4% PERFORMACE OVERHAUL

:^)

what about UNIX philosophy? do one thing and do it well...

>Actually not knowing what SDLC means

I care more about free software philosophy than closed source UNIX philosophy

Alright fuck off my thread guys, you are literally just shitting posts.

An operating system does a lot of things. The great majority of distributions are packed full of daemons and modules meant to make them work on a desktop computer out of the box. It doesn't make a lot of sense to sacrifice performance just to keep them separate, imo.

>He doesn't understand the poop mean
Keep your turban on, allow me to explain my punjab friend.

Shilling companies are now using mainly Indians. It's like a call centre shilling.

Yes, there are actual companies that Microsoft et al. use as paid shills.

>why didn't you install it?

At least you agree that systemd is a cancer that has to be eradicated.