Probably the wrong place for this, but...here goes:
In Portal, the human mind was somehow converted into a digital one. The implication I picked up on is that the human brain was actually a component of this process rather than something that was copied from.
In SOMA, mental copies were saved and then downloaded into a second body. A "coin-toss" supposedly occurred in which the original could be downloaded instead of the copy, preserving continuity, but the results were pretty overtly indistinguishable either way: the new body believed that it had "made the jump," and functioned indistinguishably as the consciousness of the original.
It seems pretty likely that the SOMA style of uploading into artificial bodies will be within our technological grasp before long. My question is this:
Is there a way to upload a human without killing them outright or copying their consciousness at all?
I think it might be possible for nanomachines to replace human tissues (including the brain) with artificial tissues that fulfill the same functions over time, and preserve not only our consciousness but maintain continuity while we transition from organic to synthetic...but not for a good long while. And even then, the end-goal would just be to convert to smaller, stronger, and more efficient artificial tissues that might even be capable of ejecting a "consciousness" component that can be uploaded into a second body while the first remains inert as a "saved" body.
It's the path to immortality that seems the least traumatizing and disruptive to me, even if it's just a stopgap for immortality while even hyperadvanced AI crack their metaphorical skulls figuring out a permanent way to make imperfect organic bodies ageless.
...or maybe not. The Hayflick Limit might not be that big of a deal, and apoptosis might be totally manipulable in another forty to fifty years.
I wish I'd be on my PC to have a proper conversation, sadly it's too late and like the user told you, Sup Forums is a place mostly for idiots, literally.
Btw did you watch Transcendence? Not a great movie but it includes kinda what you are saying
Connor Sanders
Try >>>/Sci/ Theyre smart Sup Forums
Ryan Watson
By the time we can simulate atoms, we'll have bigger concerns. If moore's law stays consistent, we'll be at simulation in maybe 50 years.
Caleb Jenkins
/sci/, /x/ (if you are lucky to not pick up the schizos), or quora/reddit honestly. i hate to say it, but plain idiots will avoid shit like this on those sites, so it is easier to get discussion going among 3-4 intelligent people
Noah Cox
This post is youtube-comment tier shit. In portal is is presumed Caroline was killed in the process. Why do you think she protested so much (In the unused lines) GLaDOS lived for hundreds of years without power. There was no life support. In SOMA there was no coin toss. It's not a 50/50. The original will always think that no transfer occurred, and the duplicate will always think it did. >Is there a way to upload a human without killing them outright or copying their consciousness at all? Today? No. The files you saw on screen in SOMA where what's called a connectome. Not a genome, a representation of someone's full DNA, but a representation of all the connections in someone's brain. Now, humans did do this. We did it to a c elegans nematode. It took about a decade, that was for 1000 neurons. Even then, c elegans ganglia, not even a brain, is just a hard set of neurons. It can't learn. It can't strengthen paths. It just is. That's really all our current computers can handle simulating, about a tenth of what a neuron actually does. We'll have a fix for human Hayflick effect in under 10 years, I have no doubt, but that shit's not gonna be in consumers hand with anything less than the french revolution happening.
Christian Gutierrez
But GLaDOS didn't really 'live' without power, Aperture was still powered on, with the nuclear reactor running and whatever secondary and tertiary and battery backups they most propably had. She said she was forced to endlessly relive last couple seconds of her life, being killed again and again, so she must have had some power, not for her whole body, but only for the most basic parts of her consciousness.
And even if she didn't have any power, her mind was still just some ones and zeros on a hard drive, loss of power would just be a sleep to her.
Jaxon Myers
Also, if you didn't watch the Transcendence, I highly recommend doing so. One of my favourite movies.
Brayden Gonzalez
There already are immortal, as in unaging, organic beings. I think it would be easier to make humans immortal by altering their dna with CRISPR than "digitalizing them. Anyway, it would be like a cut function, that is the old would be copied and deleted, not moved, i.e you die.
>We'll have a fix for human Hayflick effect in under 10 years, I have no doubt, but that shit's not gonna be in consumers hand with anything less than the french revolution happening.
I fear that as well, but would it be that unlikely? It could come bundled with an agreement to not breed/sterilization and waving of retirement money.
Adam Wright
Personally I would prefer to be digitized than continue living in flesh body. With enough computing powahr the possibilities are endless
Eli Lopez
Me too, but i don't see how it is could work. The copy will be convinced it was uploaded and that it is you, and so will everybody else. But the "real" you will be killed. No amount of processing power would change this cruel truth.
Jack Jones
Upload memory into a computer
Make bodies which are customizable before making them
I bet you also believe in the existence of free will and a "higher power", amirite?
Juan Taylor
True immortality will never be within our grasp.
Even if you slowly replace brain tissue with artificial one, which seems to be the way to do it, you need energy to continue to live, whether in the form of ingesting food or electricity
In a theoretical future where a digital human brain subsists on electricity or you use electricity to run your immortality pills factory, in the end all the energy and fuel sources in the world stem from solar power. And one day there will be the heat death of the universe, and there will be no more power to subsist your consciousness.
The needle in my eye in all of this is that neither the explanation of 'time originated at the big bang and then there will be infinite amount of time spent at heat death' or 'the universe is cyclic and has existed forever and will exist forever', neither actually satisfy me on a deep level.
I've had many a existential crisis over this topic. I've found that both thinking about this can trigger a panic attack, or something else that triggers a panic attack can force me to think about this topic. The best way to deal with it is to think about something happy or watch youtube videos. If you are experiencing these things, talk to a psychologist. They can help. Don't get put on drugs. But talking about it helps. Also if you're on the chubby side, get in shape.
Nolan Robinson
@OP, try Hannu Rajaniemi's "The Quantum Thief" and the other two books for inspiration/additional interesting questions, if you haven't already. :)
Lucas Nelson
I bet you like fedoras
Ayden Anderson
Seems a bit silly user considering you're not likely to live long enough (or ever afford it) to see even that pseudo immortality.
Leo Bell
pretty much. people think that this-and-that are going to be here 'soon' but technological progress is stalling. Mostly because stuff that works doesn't need to be replaced. Which is why planned obsolescence is a thing.
James Morris
We don't fully understand the sensation of consciousness. The question is when turned into a machine, at what point do you "die" and an inorganic object takes your place?
I think we get hung up on differentiating organic and artificial too much when really to consciousness they are the same. Consciousness is like water or a radio signal that radiates out into the universe and all matter is like an antenna to receive it. It's limitless, connected and pours into any vessel that is capable of holding it (and that which isn't capable eventually will, given enough time...) Like water it takes the form of its container, human, dog or some other experience. If a synthetic brain can receive it, it will become conscious, and if it is you, it will join consciousness as you, because you never really were an isolated consciousness to begin with (we're all the same entity, the universe, experiencing itself from different angles).
So yes it's possible to transition your brain to synthetic tissue without there being a point at which your consciousness is severed and replaced with a new one. Now, to the idea of being uploaded to the aether, spirit and all, and existing in a digital world... Can a spirit inhabit computer code? I theorize it can.. if matter sequenced and constructed into a certain object can be inhabited by consciousness, then a computer simulated mind should be able to as well because, like said, there's no distinction between real of synthetic concerning the flow of consciousness... just matter.
Ethan Brooks
Yes, but by knowing that the original will remain I'll be able to prepare myself. If after copying myself I'd have it guaranteed that the copy is OK I'd probably do like people in SOMA, and kill my physic al body. Or put it into stasis. Or do the upload shortly before my natural death.
Cooper Williams
t. Masami Eiri
Leo Gray
>in portal
If you're using gaymes as a reference point for a ghost in the machine narrative, you should just kys right now my man.
Read a book nigger.
Nathan Young
Then we will create a new universe or traverse through a wormhole to a new one.
You only need about a gram of pure matter and the right tools to create a new, separate universe and a new big bang. Traversing a wormhole however.. that's an obstacle but theoretically can be done by humans. Remember there are more than 4 dimensions.
Carson Smith
I recommend you read 'The Last Question'. It's a story by Asiimov I think. I like it.
>is there a way of reading a spinning disk/solid state drive without killing the computer
Zachary Cooper
>In Portal
Fucking hell another video game idiot.
You cannot upload or store humans. It will never ever ever be possible.
Hunter Bennett
It's really good, probably my favorite anime ever. It actually brings up some really interesting points relating to this subject, namely the possible disconnect and identity issues that could arise between one's "real" self and a virtual copy. To say any more would be spoilers, you should just go watch it.
Benjamin Gutierrez
Lol that movie sucked
Henry Hall
Get off your high horse. Who cares what media OP chooses to consume. This is a good thread for Sup Forums and it doesn't need this pointless neckbeard arrogance. Just suggest some books or movies for OP then.
Easton Allen
its amazing to me how the japanese can make absolutely nonsensical shit seem 2deep4u >a person is the product of the human collective unconscious that took form in the Wired i mean how the fuck does that even remotely make sense to anyone not suffering from schizophrenia?
Camden Davis
I already read it, but thanks.
Jackson Mitchell
I've*
Tyler Martin
>You cannot upload or store information You're the Sup Forumstard here.
I think therefore I am, you retard! >he thinks he'd be able to understand proofs without having a soul
Jordan Williams
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a statement on meme theory that got translated weirdly.
Ryder Fisher
There is no such thing as freewill, your brain makes your decisions unconsciously and you realize a decision was made moments later, as a human you can't actually know anything but make a guess that varies from time to time, your perception of who you are or identity, what you done, what you will do, is untrue, your idea of what's really going on can change once every few minutes or hours, memory changes every time its recalled, your brain can easily be fooled, you can get better skills at something by just imagining it or get stronger by imagining doing exercise.
Even if they moved your brain's current state physically particle by particle into a new body it wouldn't be you, as you are nothing but the outcome of small brain components put together, you could loose functionally in some areas of the brain and you wouldn't notice, neither do people after getting their brain split in two lol
It really doesn't matter, the reason one wishes for immortality is for our pathological fear of death, there wouldn't be a difference between you and a robot/being who is identical to you to anyone really
If you were trying to achieve feeling continuity when replacing your body without throwing your brain away then that's impossible,
>split-brain jesus christ i'd rather die than live as such an abomination why the fuck is this allowed
Angel Phillips
>What are appetites? >What are will, reason and intellect?
You are like a little baby.
>Man has free-will: otherwise counsels, exhortations, commands, prohibitions, rewards, and punishments would be in vain. In order to make this evident, we must observe that some things act without judgment; as a stone moves downwards; and in like manner all things which lack knowledge. And some act from judgment, but not a free judgment; as brute animals. For the sheep, seeing the wolf, judges it a thing to be shunned, from a natural and not a free judgment, because it judges, not from reason, but from natural instinct. And the same thing is to be said of any judgment of brute animals. But man acts from judgment, because by his apprehensive power he judges that something should be avoided or sought. But because this judgment, in the case of some particular act, is not from a natural instinct, but from some act of comparison in the reason, therefore he acts from free judgment and retains the power of being inclined to various things. For reason in contingent matters may follow opposite courses, as we see in dialectic syllogisms and rhetorical arguments. Now particular operations are contingent, and therefore in such matters the judgment of reason may follow opposite courses, and is not determinate to one. And forasmuch as man is rational is it necessary that man have a free-will.
Hunter Ross
>You are like a little baby. That's not what I mean by freewill lol, decisions are unconscious, follow the references above or google it your self, this is also more of a philosophical view, if you don't get it then you simply won't.
You can decide to move your arm and you only notice it moments later
>Quality in man is of two kinds: natural and adventitious. Now the natural quality may be in the intellectual part, or in the body and its powers. From the very fact, therefore, that man is such by virtue of a natural quality which is in the intellectual part, he naturally desires his last end, which is happiness. Which desire, indeed, is a natural desire, and is not subject to free-will, as is clear from what we have said above (82, 1,2). But on the part of the body and its powers man may be such by virtue of a natural quality, inasmuch as he is of such a temperament or disposition due to any impression whatever produced by corporeal causes, which cannot affect the intellectual part, since it is not the act of a corporeal organ. And such as a man is by virtue of a corporeal quality, such also does his end seem to him, because from such a disposition a man is inclined to choose or reject something. But these inclinations are subject to the judgment of reason, which the lower appetite obeys, as we have said (81, 3). Wherefore this is in no way prejudicial to free-will.
>The adventitious qualities are habits and passions, by virtue of which a man is inclined to one thing rather than to another. And yet even these inclinations are subject to the judgment of reason. Such qualities, too, are subject to reason, as it is in our power either to acquire them, whether by causing them or disposing ourselves to them, or to reject them. And so there is nothing in this that is repugnant to free-will.
Nicholas Jones
If you pass out or sleep and wake up
are you the same person or a modified clone?
from one moment to the next do you stop existing and start existing as someone else?
what is the difference between this and fatally making a digital copy that goes on being?
Jose Howard
"consciousness"
lol, get this hothead outta here
spook jaypeg.
Evan Russell
Kinda similar to the Talos Principle idea but with a human instead of an AI sim instance. Probably possible.
