If only few people will be responsible for the production of goods in the future while the industry will operate mostly...

If only few people will be responsible for the production of goods in the future while the industry will operate mostly autonomously, who will be the buyers of those goods and how will they earn their money?

Other urls found in this thread:

unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/11/patchwork-2-profit-strategies-for-our.html
medium.com/emergent-culture/an-exciting-new-idea-in-basic-income-b1b7bf622845
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

if our world runs 'mostly autonomously', it's very possible money would become obsolete

it really depends on how the world shapes out
jus gonna have to cross that bridge when we get there

Simple, "they" are not needed.

dude fuck trump lmao

Is trump pregnant?

Watch some Startrek if you want to see what a post scarcity economy looks like.

People work because they want to and there aren't any shitty jobs.

Basic income.

Are you genuinely wondering? Because it bothers me so much that people can't fathom what a society without demand on people working would be like.
There's a few options. Either an oligarchy will control the production and hold it over the population as leverage to get them to do whatever they can't accomplish themselves. Or society will lean towards a more people focused rule (democratic values in general should serve to produce this. But that's not to say that our democratic societies will solve this. That you're seriously asking this question is a clear sign that we might just enslave ourselves through being stupid) where working won't be as necessary and possibly won't even get you anything on its own. You may be rewarded purely on merit rather than on popularity like you see with Apple. Predatory marketing isn't really a thing where there's no gain to be had so you'd see a market that's more like the thingiverse (3d printing site). Everything is open source licenced and you just get the fame.

The biggest issues we face when we're past that hurdle is that we're all work addicts in some sense. Humans aren't made to just do nothing. Unemployed people in countries with good welfare still become depressed. Disabled people in these countries are often given work despite their inability simply because they need purpose. It's hard to escape that.
A solution would be the oligarchy. If they create artificial struggle they can make people happier potentially. As odd as it sounds.

But regardless money in the sense that its a measure of work that we exchange for goods will likely go away at some point.

its its almost inevitable once everyone realizes that everyth8ng is dirt cheap they will start pushing to kill money at some point

>hurr the illuminati wouldn't allow they want more money

even if an organisation like the illuminati existed they would own money in the first place

No, he's just out of shape.

Someone made a hillary one too but the liberals threw a fit and destroyed it.

They'll pretty much tax corporations for each robot/automated system installed. Use that tax money to provide a basic income.

There is many theories on this, but essentially if they don't provide a basic income and just say fuck it and let everyone be poor then you wouldn't have a market to sell all of this shit to anyway.

>basic income

>basic income
i think you're lost. this isn't reddit.

>If only few people will be responsible for the production of goods in the future

*pulls lips into a smug grin directed at the Trump supporter*
They already are

>rich liberal elite regions all vote for shillary
>party of the poor
lmao

funny how you tards flip flop depending on what works for you best at the time.

...

5'3" manlet reporting in. Voted Gary "smoke weed everyday" Johnson. Shilldawg would've been my second choice

>not per capita
What's the point of even making an image like that? Only leftist idiots will fall for it.

Sup Forums isn't your alt-right safe haven, especially since free software is the basis of this board.

LMAOing at Drumpfsters right now desu

you'll have eight years to laugh then lmao

Sup Forums isn't your fairy tale idea safe haven, especially since tangible performance is the basis of this board.

I don't live in America, so yes you are correct.

Hillary lost
Trump wants to decriminalize weed federally.
There is no "alt-right" it's just the right. Conservatives are left-lite

>especially since free software is the basis of this board.

Newfag pls, Sup Forums was never freetard central, no matter how much you try to hijack this board into your own safe space echo chamber

>counties filled with bankers, lawyers, code artisians, and other trash that charge 1k/hour for their "services" all went to hillary
wow, who would have thunk it?

>mocking the struggle of the proletariat
What is the left coming to these days...

>Sup Forums was never freetard central
NEW
E
W

Why would you be laughing if Trump won and is going to be in office for 8 years?

Image doesn't make much sense.

>Sup Forums was never freetard central
>the fucking stick is RMS
LMAOing at ur life senpai

Neo-liberals are just capitalists masquerading as communists.

>What is the left coming to these days...

The cultural useful idiots of global capitalism?

The irony being that this thread is about communism being a possible next step when we reach the end of capitalism.

Basically I guess.
The most sane politics these days seem to come from classic liberals and other centrists. I wonder if this is a side effect of the web creating echo chambers or just another run of the political cycle.

Even in a "post-scarcity" scenario, there's still going to be scarcity.

There is no such thing as infinite resources
There is no such thing as infinite energy
There is no such thing as infinite labor

These are finitely limited. It's a question of whether the finite amounts we have good access to are effectively, though not actually, limitless. Post-scarcity is really a situation where the finite amounts of all three have increased to such a degree that, following the supply-demand curve, the resultant goods are "free".

Money effectively acts as a control on consumption: We may have the capacity to produce a shitload of cars, but we cannot possibly produce all the cars any single person could conceivably demand. (What if someone demands 100,000 cars for no more reason than to build a giant pyramid of ford trucks?) There MUST be controls on consumption to prevent a few idiots from consuming the "infinite" resources.

That means money isn't going away. I'm not even sure if it's going to largely change at all. The whole point of cash will be to act as a control on consumption and to direct the market. Good ideas/products will earn more than bad ideas/products. That's ideal.

But for that to happen, there also have to be benefits for the producers to collect/have money from producing their goods, or else - why bother with it at all? This is the part where I think the real work needs to be done to make a post-scarcity society workable. Without a benefit to the fat cats, nothing will change. The trouble is making it beneficial to the top without hurting the bottom.

>when we reach the end of capitalism
The problem is powerful men don't want the end of capitalism.

But it's not a possible next step

People still need to build parts, create new machines, and service them when they go down. There are some jobs which may never be automated as well. I don't really want a machine cutting me open and dicing me up.

You don't get it OP.

It doesn't matter.

Labour will be cheap, so products will get cheaper, and CEOs will earn more. That's the driving dynamic of the global oligarchy we're seeing emerge.

Bullshit jobs will be created, and you'll receive bullshit pay for it. You'll get in debt that you can't pay back. And all the money from the middle and lower classes will be siphoned upwards to the elite.

Already 65 people own half the world. More wealth will accumulate to less people.

You can't stop this.

There'll come a revolution, and it will simply be replaced by a new oligarchy. Before long we get the exact situation that we get in Orwell's 1984.

It's happening now, and it's unstoppable. It's inevitable.

>Sup Forums technology
When I post sudo rm -rf / I get a ban within the minute however this thread is still up... okay.

Will Drumpf build a wall around robot manufacturers now and let them pay for it?

Why does trump have huge varicose veins?

If that happens, jobs that still require humans will be paid very well.

>Basically I guess.

They're pro feminism and pro immigration, is great for business (more sales, less wages) but terrible for workers.

They're against traditional roles and religion, which if anything else at least is a non-materialist way to be social and spend your time. The resulting emptiness is filled buying iShits and more consumism. Again, great for business. They do love Islam, I guess because it's another weapon against western culture. Maybe the rapefugee dead weight will bankrupt a Social Security or two, prime material for cheap privatization and $$$.

They're specifically pro multiculturalism, pro diversity which is a proven way to break up trust and social cohesion. Don't wanna get those pleb workers organized or something. (No, multicultural solidarity doesn't work. It's human nature, which is *hardwired*. Business understand this and exploit it, libtards don't).


No StarTrek-style postscarcity future for us. America will look like Brazil and Europe like a warzone.

Reminder that hillary only won with poor people

That's weird because both coasts were blue if you look at the map.

You have no idea about Europe. You have never lived in (continental) Europe. You waste your precious lifetime on Sup Forums, Breitbart, Liveleak and RussiaToday and shitpost on Sup Forums. You are a frustrated loser who thinks he has figured it all out and deserves special treatment for being born American. But no, you don't deserve a good job if you are stupid and no, you don't deserve a girlfriend if you are bitter and jealous at others.

I think Trump might actually do some good things for Americans, at the cost of destabilizing Eastern Europe and the Pacific and stealing lots of money together with his family and friends. But the likes of you will stay losers forever.

Duh democrats support lazy fucks who want to live off the government instead of getting a job.

Never heard of the working poor?

>that projection
lmao

I'm European. And I don't have to figure out anything, I only need to open my fucking eyes. I see the fracture, I walk down my grandma old neighborhood, a former worker-class neighborhood, not rich but proud in the past and now a degraded multuculti dump where you can't even give away an apartment because nobody sane want to live there.

And meanwhile the lefty parties want more of this. They put their "refugees welcome" banner in the city hall, they give out free health-care for illegals while a unemployed national worker is out of luck, they congratulate themselves on how holly they are when they party with famous actors and singers.

>That's weird because both coasts were blue if you look at the map.

Its almost like the impoverished inner city dwellers voted in droves for her

>The average BLUMPF supporter can't work out there's a third variable (age).

Well, it's not surprising when they're all HS dropouts.

you're right, all the young retards still living with mommy voted for the loser.

I'll be laughing at your pathetic life for eight years.

They are actually testing that right now in finland.

>that projection
lmao

>you're right

I know.

You are naming problems, not solutions. The likes of Trump, Petry, LePenn, Grillo, Farage and Wilders are only good at that - criticising others. Simpletons like you take that for heroism, for "breaking unspoken laws" of the media and deem that enough to give those populists your votes. None of you losers listens to what those opportunists propose (if anything). I will tell you how it will go down for you and your country.

The European Union will collapse within the next years. If you are in one of the states receiving benefits (Italy, Greece, Spain, Poland), you will most likely find yourself in a post-soviet shithole. If you are in a paying state like Germany or France, you will lick American asses like Volkswagen does in order to export your goods there. Other european countries will stop buying from you too. Your best bet would be Russia and China, but both countries are very close to becoming self-sufficient. Say goodbye to 40 hours week and free healthcare and welcome your new Trump master.

Getting rid of the immigrants which are already there is impossible; none of those populists will have the balls to start a race war. And trust me, with the population in the third world growing exponentially, being flooded with immigrants is a question of time. Whatever you think you might gain now by building borders, it will be worthless in 20 years. Not that you will have children to actually care about that, lol

>You are naming problems, not solutions.

I'm not even disagreeing with your prospect for Europe. It's as bad as you say. I'm just mad as hell at the leftist idiots and traitor cuckservatives that allowed all this.

And I'm not holding my breath for Trump or for any of the bland imitators that may spring up after him. I guess things will have to get even more fucked up to have some real change in european politics.

>If you are in one of the states receiving benefits (Italy, Greece, Spain, Poland), you will most likely find yourself in a post-soviet shithole
I'm sorry reality doesn't conform to your stereotypes but as one of the biggest economy in the world we have to pay a lot of money instead of receiving them

Money is tokens for power and control over shit. Power and control over shit is older than humanity, it's as old as the universe; the economy is evolution abstracted.

So if you have nothing to trade, if you're not winding the handle, then you're what's in the sausages.

topkek

You're made of useful stuff. Your food needs light from the sun and space and is made of useful complex carbons that could be spent on something more useful than a worthless human who has no labour to trade.

You're gonna starve or die fighting for food. Best case scenario is being allowed to live until the natural end of your life.

This: government issued neetbucks.

>And trust me, with the population in the third world growing exponentially, being flooded with immigrants is a question of time.
the true nature of the cuck. all he knows is surrender.

...

>natural end of your life.
is it really natural when they flood the air, water and food supply with cancer causing agents?

what user is talking about is the future though. people will be given a salary by their gubbermint, to spend on food and the like.

makes a lot more sense to spend money on feeding your population rather than starving the sick/poor/unfortunate, while murdering goat fuckers in some worthless hellhole on the other side of the world.
right? RIGHT?
oh w8 they'd still rather let everyone die, nvm.

>let everyone be poor
could be like that stupid movie.. the ultra poor are fags breaking their backs for the ultra rich fags who induldge themselves any way possibru.
hey that's a lot like today... go figure.

>The best humane alternative to genocide I can think of is not to liquidate the wards - either metaphorically or literally - but to virtualize them. A virtualized human is in permanent solitary confinement, waxed like a bee larva into a cell which is sealed except for emergencies. This would drive him insane, except that the cell contains an immersive virtual-reality interface which allows him to experience a rich, fulfilling life in a completely imaginary world.
etc.
unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/11/patchwork-2-profit-strategies-for-our.html

>The virtual worlds of today are already exciting enough to distract many away from their real lives. They will only get better. Nor is productive employment precluded in this scenario - for example, wards can perform manual labor through telepresence. As members of society, however, they might as well not exist. And because cells are sealed and need no guards, virtualization should be much cheaper than present-day imprisonment.
>I like virtualization because it can be made to scale. I don't think there is any scenario under which San Francisco is burdened with more than a few thousand wards. Many other regions of the earth, however, contain large numbers of human beings whose existence may well prove an unequivocal liability to the owners of any ground on which they would reside. If so, they can be virtualized, creating giant human Wachowski honeycombs of former bezonians, whose shantytowns can be cleared and redeveloped as villas for retired oil-company executives.
>Of course, virtualization is a drastic alternative and itself unlikely to happen. Charity is just too popular these days. Before anyone becomes a ward of the realm, any person or organization is free to adopt him as a dependent as a matter of mutual agreement. His new guardian is (a) responsible for his actions, and (b) free to tell him what to do: the ideal relationship for any attempt at rehabilitation. (It's basically what the Salvation Army does now, I believe.) If all else fails, there's always the honeycomb.

Negative income tax is a better idea, so long as you let those who misspend it fend for themselves.

WWIII will start or a virus will be engineered and everyone who can't afford to get away from them will be killed

You don't think they would just let you continue to exist if you don't give them any benefit, do you? In a post-scarcity world, you are better off dead and using no resources than alive.

tl;dr the matrix.
>they liquify dead humans to feed to the living
enjoy your war with the machines user.

>>rich liberal elite regions all vote for shillary
>>party of the poor
lmao
You laugh, but both are true. Progressive politics in the US are all about the Ivy League siccing the black and Hispanic underclass on the mostly white middle class and the insufficiently progressive rich.

Trumpets are upset 24/7 so I'll just keep laughing at them.

Easy

Regardless of what solutions are proposed as the problem of job scarcity grows, people are still afraid. Luddite wars and terrorist attacks ensue, which will kill a lot of people.

After that, either we will enter a fascist world where those who can't get work will either starve to death or be shot by mechanical death squads while some people are super spoiled. Or a communist one where everyone is equally mediocre.

After AI technology reaches a certain point, it determines humanity is worthless to the progress of [whatever all knowing AIs want] and either kills everyone or locks them away inside their heads where they have everything they want with no reason to leave

>own money
You should research George Soros's ties to world banks. The money is most definitely already owned

>Sup Forums was never freetard central,

The current economic model would not survive such a transition. It's like feudalism didn't survive the industrial revolution.

Why do thinly veiled communism threads keep popping up all over Sup Forums?

Technological deflation will save us.

medium.com/emergent-culture/an-exciting-new-idea-in-basic-income-b1b7bf622845

>While the concept is nuanced, the basic point of technological deflation is that technological things (like, say, iPhones) have the funny habit of becoming “almost free” very quickly. Remember that fancy new iPhone 6 you bought for $600 back in 2013? How much is it worth now? Well, today if you are so inclined, you can get a brand-new one for $150. One fourth the cost in three short years. Remember, we aren’t talking about buying a used iPhone 6, these are brand new. In another two years, you’d be hard pressed to give one of these away.

[...]

>In fact, he argues that that it is precisely this force of technological deflation that is frustrating global central bank’s efforts to drive inflation through things like negative interest rates and “quantitative easing”. The banks are trying like crazy to inflate the economy on one end, but technology is deflating out the other end even faster.

[...]

>And with things like self-driving cars, 3D printers and AI just over the horizon, more and more of the economy is going to become subject to rapid technological deflation.

>This is a deep point. No existing economic model knows how to deal with the accelerating pull of technological deflation.

It's dumb because most people don't have the skills that would even make an income. Even now tons of jobs are basically there to keep idiots employed and then there is the military, which is an internal welfare state.

>Unemployed people in countries with good welfare still become depressed.
Usually because society still hates on them and blames everything on them (less so these days thanks to immigrants). Besides our current culture fetishizes work like it's something positive. It's a temporary attitude which will change soon enough.

Obviously people won't be doing nothing, creating and even consuming media can turn into a job, sports are bound too become more popular too and given how starting your own company will be easy with basic income, tons of ideas to spend the time and improve will come.

>money in the sense that its a measure of work that we exchange for goods will likely go away at some point
Now that's kinda unlikely. Although it's bound to become a lot less relevant.

so are you a teenager or just plain retarded? there are already millions of americans on food stamps. you know what they love to do? "sell" the food stamps by offering to pay for your groceries and you give them cash.

basic income is idiotic and the only people that support it are fuck ups. what effect do you think increasing everyone's salary will have? the prices of absolutely everything will go up. not to mention the financial strain this would have on the government to have to directly pay every citizen.

...

What will we do with all the people these automated looms will put out of work?!

>ITT
>The economically illiterate

>the prices of absolutely everything will go up
Given that most people will be out of jobs, the price won't be able to go up too high, since nobody will be able to buy shit then. Not much use to rent your apartment for 10k if nobody is being able to afford the rent.

>financial strain this would have on the government to have to directly pay every citizen
It will actually kill a lot paperwork, idiotic positions in the government and so on. Murica already pays crazy welfare sums to the military, and then there are subsidiaries for MIC and the likes.

And that's when talking about the current economical system and rules. Something so simple as fixing tax loopholes, raising taxes for companies employing robots and not bombing brown people would balance the sheet pretty easy.

Absolutely not comparable. Industrial revolution changed the nature of work but it still required the skills of most humans. Robots can easy do all of the current wage slave tasks, making most people useless for any time of work as we know it.

whatever shall we do?!