Why are people against European Unification?

Why are people against European Unification?

Because Germany are in charge

I wouldn't say so.
Germany is the biggest country, yes, so it has a lot of influence, but the refugee crisis has shown that Germany cant lead on its own, against the wishes of other member states

So when are Merkel gonna withdraw her invatation to the black and brown migrants?

That would help a lot.

The black and brown immigration stopped mostly already, because merkel made a deal with the devil (turkey)

because it's a fucking stupid idea

care to elaborate, friend?

Germany has no balls and is still occupied.

soviet union is barely gone and u already wanna form a new one. lets just stay free plz what the fuck is the problem with you cucks

That's why we need strength and unity in Europe, to free us from American influence


beeing "free" is not an alternative. You are gonna be always be influenced by bigger countries. Finnland of all nations should now it the best. You can only be free if you are a powerful country yourself

I hate to use the chemtrail speech, but it's an imperialistic attempt at grabbing and exploiting other countries' resources for the will of the Bruxelles overlords. It's pushing the nations of the EU into an artificial superstate and depriving them of their identity and autonomy. There is literally, LITERALLY no upside or reason why any member of the EU should ever want to get into the unification meme. No offense sir, but anyone who wants unification is either a shill, a cuck or both.

I swear you this: I will not allow Croatia to become a federal satellite of the closet fascists from Bruxelles. I will fight tooth and nail. Nignogs blew up your shit? Not Croatia's problem. Arabs blew up your airports? Not Croatia's problem. Too many kebab flowing in for the great economic powerhouse to handle? Again, not our problem.

>inb4 lel croatia
Yes, I am quite aware that our politics are a turdpile and even the EUSSR governance is better than what we have, but by god, please let us finally do something ourselves even if means the end of us.

I'm an American that has lived in several European countries for half of my life. There is barely cultural justification for the castrated, weak EU we see now, let alone unification. Not a single place I have lived has been remotely similar, even countries that used to be united.

nobody supports EU integration more than the US government. This is a dumb argument.

Not him but let's reverse it. Name even a single good reason for Europe to unify into a single nation that isn't "Muh America" or "Muh Russia".

Too many shady deals being made at the expense of ppl freedom and safety.

That TRans-pacific deal for example looks alwful.

They're sensible and realize a federalized EU would mean that their national interests would be marginalized even more so than they are now.

spain stay with you britain ...brexit when?
because we don´t wannabe a german colony .....

muh China.
Seriously, if European countries don't unite, they are gonna become puppets of other world powers. I dont understand how you can simply ignore that point.

>Seriously, if European countries don't unite, they are gonna become puppets of other world powers
The EU already sucks American dick (see TTIP shilling). They're not going to make a 180 on their foreign relations.

>nobody supports EU integration more than the US government. This is a dumb argument.
It doesn't change the simple truth of divide and conquer.
Alone we are weak. United we are strong

A Germanic supernation including Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Belgium and the UK would be nice.

Anything that involves Turkey, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria or any shithole in that area? No thanks.

>completely cede all of your sovereignty and cease to be independent countries or else you'll become a puppet!
literally what kind of argument is this? How is the nonexistent Russian threat or American cultural influence justification to attempt some German-controlled pan-continental Yugoslavia clone?

>being free is not an alternative
you're right, it is the only option. being a submissive cuck is humiliating and worse than death.

ONLY way to prevent TTIP is if EU acts as a whole.
If each country would make a deal with USA individially, they would have zero bargain power and would have to accept all the shitty conditions

The EU was literally created because "m-muh free trade, muh import tariffs". That's like expecting China to all of a sudden recognize Tibet and Taiwan.

>Yes, I am quite aware that our politics are a turdpile and even the EUSSR governance is better than what we have, but by god, please let us finally do something ourselves even if means the end of us.
Why do you wanna do something on your own when you say yourself your politicians are shit? At least in EU, other countries can look at your politicians and prevent them from doing too much shit

So you concede that other than "muh power" there is literally no reason for the nations of Europe to unite?

no, you are not. a "united" Europe would just collapse the moment there is a war or economic recession. You can't artificially construct a superpower, that's not how it works. Work on building up your countries, fixing depopulation, and actually having militaries. Russia is not actually that big or scary, it's just a European country that asserts itself on an international level. There is no reason why Germany or the UK would not be able to do the same thing by themselves.

I wouldn't be so sure about TTIP passing.
70% of Germans are against it and there is a pretty big EU wide protest activism against this trade deal.
Sure, there are a lot of TTIP shills in EU, but it is up to the people of Europe to unite and take power in their own hands, through political activism

Yes. If we lived in a world where China, Russia, America and other potential superpowers magically didn't exist, there would be no reason for an united Europe.
Other than preventing European wars, maybe

Why do you assume united Europe would be German controlled? Sure, Germany is a powerful economy with influence, but when other countries unite, they can easily counter Germany, as refugee crisis has shown

>70% of Germans are against it and there is a pretty big EU wide protest activism against this trade deal.
And if the EU unified, those 70% of Germans would be marginalized and passing TTIP would be even easier than before.

A union to encourage trade/reduce trade barriers is a good thing. Giving up your sovereignty because of overblown fears of China is retarded.

You can be either a vassal state of a foreign power like China or America, or you can be part of a bigger country in which you have a vote.
I think the latter is the better alternative

>Russia
>superpower
the only people that think this are the Russians.

I see. In that case, why not include all countries of the Mediterranean? Hell, why not throw Africa in the mix? All those people, all those births, all those resources. Surely America and Russia would never stand up to us! And hey, it also helps prevent all those African wars through peace and unity and prosperity!

because Germany welcomes the refugees

>vassal state

>they're not superpower
>they're weak
>so that's why we need whole USA, EU and a lot of other countries except China to fight it
Seems logical.

Free trade between European countries
That doesn't mean EU has aotumatically accept a trade deal with USA which lowers European standards

Russia is a regional power with influence over the former Soviet Bloc. It's able to wield that influence because it throws it's fat dick all over place just like the U.S. does in the Middle East or France does in West Africa.

Maybe Russia isn't scary, but China sure is. They are 1 billion people, and their living standard and productivity is constantly improving.
Building up Britains power, fixing depopulation, military, it all wont help you against China. If you are alone, you are gonna become economically dependant on them and they will exploit you, like you did with them in the past

>70% of Germans are against TTIP
Do you think our politicians give a fuck about our opinion? They will do it anyway

nobody is fighting you but a bunch of Ukrainian pig farmers, what are you talking about?

literally the only other country they influence is Belarus and perhaps to an extent Serbia. Russia barely even qualified as a regional power, as it has almost no capability of actually influencing anything outside its borders.

Because Europeans are too culturally and linguistically diverse to make a go of it. Multiculturalism is divisive, and resentments quickly crop up and fester.

There are only two ways to counteract that:

1. You create an authoritarian government that quickly squashes any dissent.

2. You push for cultural and linguistic homogeneity. Which might be fine if everyone behaves like Germans, but your more likely to end up with a people who have the arrogance of the French, the corruption of the Italians, the work ethics of the Greeks, and the cuisine of the English.

As I said, there is an EU wide activism against TTIP. Such cooperation would be impossible without the excistance of EU, since USA would make treade deals with individual EU countries

What the hell is China going to do? All they're interested in is extracting resources from Africa and selling us plastic crap. As an American, we literally are economically dependent on them, but they are just as economically dependent on the west. We are their market, they would never do anything to jeopardize that.

Because those countries are shitholes and their people are uneducated and have medieval culture.
European value is to treat all people as equal, but frankly speaking, we wouldn't benefit from a state where we treat arabs and sub saharan africans as equals.

They tried to install ACTA, and yet people stood up and protested against it.
It shows that politican activism works in EU

>Because those countries are shitholes and their people are uneducated and have medieval culture.
Unlike Eastern Europeans, right? Or those Balkan shits Brussels desperately wants to annex?

>European value is to treat all people as equal, but frankly speaking, we wouldn't benefit from a state where we treat arabs and sub saharan africans as equals.
Let me rephrase that for you: we have "European" values, but frankly it would be retarded to actually live by those values.

He means the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which serves no purpose anymore since the USSR is gone

the eu is a foreign power what the fuck are you talking about nigger
>vassal state
>
>

>Hacker: Europe is a community of nations, dedicated towards one goal.
Sir Humphrey: Oh, ha ha ha.
>Hacker: May we share the joke, Humphrey?
Sir Humphrey: Oh Minister, let's look at this objectively. It is a game played for national interests, and always was. Why do you suppose we went into it?
>Hacker: To strengthen the brotherhood of free Western nations.
Sir Humphrey: Oh really. We went in to screw the French by splitting them off from the Germans.
>Hacker: So why did the French go into it, then?
Sir Humphrey: Well, to protect their inefficient farmers from commercial competition.
>Hacker: That certainly doesn't apply to the Germans.
Sir Humphrey: No, no. They went in to cleanse themselves of genocide and apply for readmission to the human race.
>Hacker: I never heard such appalling cynicism! At least the small nations didn't go into it for selfish reasons.
Sir Humphrey: Oh really? Luxembourg is in it for the perks; the capital of the EEC, all that foreign money pouring in.
>Hacker: Very sensible central location.
Sir Humphrey: With the administration in Brussels and the Parliament in Strasbourg? Minister, it's like having the House of Commons in Swindon and the Civil Service in Kettering!

They will force you to sign trade deals which hurt your ecnomoy.
If you refuse, they will boycot your country until you finally give in

>Free trade between European countries
That's not realistic, the EU exports huge amounts of goods to the U.S. and China because those are their two main markets.There's a reason Eurocrats have spent the last 20 years getting comfey with China and the U.S.

Good question. I guess it's because I don't want to have anyone see Croatia get dragged out of the gutter by a union of destroyers and crooks thereby giving themselves credibility, while all they did was make sure we didn't follow their ideas too closely.

What I mean is that Croatia is the proof that socialism and crony capitalism do not work and have no future. It's proof that the keynesian myth of government spending driving the economy is a blatant lie.

Also, I don't want to live in a superstate that fixes it's own problems by centralizing itself and infringing on it's citizen's rights more and more. In fact, it seems just as bad as the destiny of Croatia as it is. It may be a case of jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

You know what, as much as I love my country's own individual culture, heritage and history, I am willing to face reality and accept that in the masses it is all but dead.

I would happy with a traditionalist, conservative pan-European movement that was built upon the ashes of the marxist, pro-mass islamic immigration EU, that embodied true European values such as family, religion, fine art and excellence.

For anybody that truely wants to see a united europa, the EU is your enemy. It is corrupt to its unelected executive core and is creating more division and animosity between European countries that we have seen since the great war, all whilest erasing our beautiful individual traits and brown washing us with third world hordes.

Which is why Islam is being introduced, it'll uinify Europeans under one belief.

>Unlike Eastern Europeans, right?
Eastern European countries are shit, because of Communism, but their people are allright and can integrate well in western European countries.

>Let me rephrase that for you: we have "European" values, but frankly it would be retarded to actually live by those values.
European values are good as long as we apply them to Europe. Democracy only works with people of similar world view and productivity.
If we give same voting rights to arabs and blacks who dont work shit and want to live in a caliphat, our democracy will go to shit

>made a deal that every """""""""""refugee"""""""" sent back to Turkey, Europe must take one """"""refugee""""" back from Turkey
>in return for this, Europe pays Turkey billions of euros and offers tens of millions of Turks visa free travel to Europe

wow what a great deal

>Such cooperation would be impossible without the existence of EU
Proofs? Sounds like bullcrap since you have those exact same protests among non-EU members like the U.S. and Canada. That's more to do with the Internet than any sort of Euronationalism.

Both options one and two. What an excellent solution.

The EU is not a foreign power. You are a member of EU, you sit in EU pairlament and you have a vote there.
If USA or Russia controlls you, you wont have any voting right

>European value is to treat all people as equal, but frankly speaking, we wouldn't benefit from a state where we treat arabs and sub saharan africans as equals.

So basically those values are bullshit since they only apply to people you like?

>European values such as fine art and excellence

>Also, I don't want to live in a superstate that fixes it's own problems by centralizing itself and infringing on it's citizen's rights more and more.
I am curious, how exactly do you think an EU state would infringing the rights of its croatian citizens? would it forbid them to speak coratian language? or to celebrate crotian festivals?

the EU is run by an unelected board of commissioners who can (and regularly do) ignore the european parliament

>but their people are allright and can integrate well in western European countries.
>integrate
Oh?

>Democracy only works with people of similar world view and productivity.
Do you have ANY FUCKING IDEA how much world view and productivity vary from nation to nation in Europe? Hell, that's the fucking cause of this entire retarded eurozone crisis: countries with entirely different and incompatible economies sharing one currency.

You're making an entirely arbitrary distinction between Eastern Europeans and North Africans simply because you don't like brown people.

But as EU, beeing the biggest single market on the planet, we can use our size to negoitate a trade deal that is favoroable to us.
If each European country had to make its own trade deal with USA and China, it would have way less bargain power and the deal would be far worse

>made a deal that every """""""""""refugee"""""""" sent back to Turkey, Europe must take one """"""refugee""""" back from Turkey
When refugees see that they are brought back to turkey as soon as they arrive in Europe, they will stop trying to come here

This. Bigger ones eating smaller ones.
EU is the thing that let you opportunity not being together as a one country (which is impossible) and hold your independence. Or, at least, sort of it.
But i actually think that you created vassal system in your own system (EU) which is kinda.. Dunno. Stupid?

America would be negotiating different deals with different countries at different times, all those deals would be secret of course.
An EU wide cooperation of activists would be impossible, because the deals would have different conditions and would happen at different times

>But i actually think that you created vassal system in your own system (EU)
care to elaborate?

The vast majority of them will not be deported back to turkey, and of those who do, they will just keep trying until they either succeed or are taken to Europe via the exchange deal.

Its fucking retarded. Why can't Merkel just go "we aren't taking any more, sorry". And shut the fucking border.
Instead she would rather suck terrorist Erdogans tiny sand-cock and continue to flood.

>the eu is not a foreign power
>i actually got baited this far

non-finns making the decisions for finns, of course it's a foreign power. sick baiting bro

Maybe. We'll see.

Germany and France telling other countries with weaker economies what to do?

I wonder how long until Germany starts tratning Switzerland, Austrian and the eastern coutries with economic sanctions of they dont lift their immigration policies.

I would love a democratic EU, but as of right now, there is not really a communication between people of different European countries, so in my opinion it is a good thing that EU pairlament has little power.
For now, it is better when the decisions in EU are made by agreements between gouvernments of EU countries and worked out by EU technocrates

I think he was mean that you actually have no choice to be ABSOLUTELY independent. USA, EU or Russia influence is waiting for you in any ways.
That's the mad world we're living in, yeah.

>Do you have ANY FUCKING IDEA how much world view and productivity vary from nation to nation in Europe?
This has mostly to do with corruption and post-communism, not with cultural differences.
And you cant say that Eastern Europeans and Africans are the same, either in their values, their religion or their education

>We must have power
>Even if it means sacrificing sovereignity
You're not even sacrificing liberty for safety. You're sacrificing liberty for the ability to one-up Americans on a FUCKING ANONYMOUS IMAGE BOARD. Shut off your computer, go lie in bed and think long and hard about just how fucking pathetic you are.

This didn't work. Germany tried to pressure others to accept their refugee policy, other countries told Germany to fuck off.
This shows that EU works as intended and Germany cant act alone against the will of other member states

>This has mostly to do with corruption and post-communism, not with cultural differences.
Because historical events don't shape a culture.

>And you cant say that Eastern Europeans and Africans are the same
Nor can you say that West Europeans and East Europeans are the same. Nor can you say that East Europeans and Balkanshits are the same. Nor can you say that Balkanshits and Turks are the same.

I'm totally in for it, because we can't remain shitty little countries while the rest of the world is slowly surpassing us in every little aspect. That being said the current EU is a bureaucratic monster that does more harm than good, especially on a socio-economical basis. We need some big reforms to not fuck it up.

Finns are involved in that decision making progress though. If you were controlled by China or USA, there would be no such involvement

>America would be negotiating different deals with different countries at different times
As opposed to negotiating with one big power with ideologically identical leadership, which is far more removed from the average person than the national governments are.

I really don't see the point here, you might as well federalize NATO members while you're at it.

I'm not against European Unification.
But only on old rules, on catholic values. Not muslim, I don't want to see sharia police on streets of my city.

Also where is european army?
Where are eu border guards?
Why we don't sending ships back to their homes like australia?

>The vast majority of them will not be deported back to turkey, and of those who do, they will just keep trying until they either succeed or are taken to Europe via the exchange deal.
All non-syrians will be deported to Turkey. Eventually they will give up trying

>Its fucking retarded. Why can't Merkel just go "we aren't taking any more, sorry". And shut the fucking border.
How are you gonna shut the border in Lesbos? Throw refugees out in the sea?

sovereignity without power is impossible
the weak get dominated by the strong. such is life

You think a tiny state like Finland has any more say in the EU than it would with the US? What would give them the ability to bargain with their population of 5 million compared to a continent of 500 million?

Unless you're going to copy the US senatorial system, then that shits not going to work out.

I like the Union, but I think the Parliament should hold more power, not the comission.
It needs to centralize.

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>As opposed to negotiating with one big power with ideologically identical leadership, which is far more removed from the average person than the national governments are
because this leadership negotiates with the weight of the whole EU economy behind it. It can bargain far better than any single european country could

There are some differences, but Easern and Western Europeans share the same religion, the same values and enjoy a similar education

>It can bargain far better than any single european country could
Bargain on behalf of whom is the question. Considering lots of Eurocrats are quite cozy with companies like Royal Dutch Shell and Nestle

>the same values
nobody has ever properly explained what this means to me. Prove to me that it's not just a vague buzzword that Europhiles throw around.

They can look for allies who support their position.
For example, if Germany tries to pressure other countries to do their bidding, other countries can unite to counter Germanies influence, as happend in refugees crisis.
Plus, individual Finns have the ability to get involved in EU political process and come into a position of leadership

Oh, I'm not worried about the language and the traditions. Of course nobody would infringe on those, since there's no money involved and you can't monetize them.

What I fear is the nanny superstate taking care about our own """""well""""being by telling us what we can or cannot buy, produce, sell, what we can or cannot pay our workers and ask from our bosses, what we can or cannot use for the sake of the environment.

It has already banned certain types of appliances because muh environment, it has a heavily regulated and disfunctional agricultural system, etc. I don't even have to imagine what will happen when self driving cars go mainstream. The EU will most likely give us a push into the future by banning the manual cars and making sure that we have to spend even more on overpriced cars than we already do and then they'll say how hi-tech we are. They'll do the same to housing by requiring complicated systems to be mandatory feature of every building.

And finally, they will condition you to say and think what they want you to, which is what they are doing already. Croatia saw all the might of the EU propaganda machine at the joining referendum. The media was full of it until the point where nobody even dared to be anti-EU for the fear of being labeled as far right redneck, like what they are doing about UKIP and FN right now.

>human rights
>democracy
>seperation of power
>scientific method
Those are all values that Europeans share, but which are not necessary shared by muslims or blacks

>but Easern and Western Europeans share the same religion
Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox and Muslims if you include Albania and other Balkanshits the EU has shown interest in.

>the same values
Ha, no. WHAT fucking values? Just look at how much of a controversy things like gay marriage, the veil and abortion are.

>enjoy a similar education
Only the most sheltered europhile could believe this.

These "values" are progressive beliefs that are only a few decades old, detested by about half the European Union and paraded around as if they were always part of the identities of Europe. At best, at fucking best you could maybe argue for Christianity as a common root for European cultures. Guess what? The EU doesn't want to touch Christianity with a 10 foot pole because it would offend muzzies and fedora tippers.

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