HTML is programming

HTML is programming.

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>giving your browser instructions using code isn't programming

describing the way a web page looks isn't the same as telling a computer how to do something.

>It's just a new kind of literacy
No it isn't. Can you fucking fathom what a dangerous clusterfuck the world would be like if we treated mechanical engineering like this?
The entire modern world revolves around complex mechanical systems and has since the industrial revolution, even farther back depending on how semantic you want to be.
If we decided "Everybody should know mechanical physics!" and half-assedly taught a dumbed-down version of it so "everybody can make their own engines!" then half the population would get killed off from their own fucking incompetence and misunderstandings.

But noooo! It's safe to do on a computer so EVERYBODY should learn it, no matter what! It's not like it's a specialized skill and logical mindset! Just write libraries to handle all that icky complex stuff xD!

It is. It just isn't imperative programming so it doesn't look like it for most people who haven't worked with declarative programming.

>describing the way a web page looks to your computer isn't the same as telling a computer how it should render that very web page based on the description you gave it

You don't tell it how to render that shit you fuckstick, people who coded the browser engine told it how to render something.

I just rendered this A on your computer:

A

And now you know why modern software has so many bugs and security holes, and is so fucking slow and bloated.

There is a massive IT bubble right now as normies rush to it hoping for "muh easy 6 month certificate middle class career!" Can't wait for it to pop.

Oh yeah I forgot, the person who coded the engine already knows what every website ever made looks like and somehow miraculously fitted all of them inside netscape navigator.

Look, he even predicted our conversation right now!

>Dogs have fur. Cats have fur. Therefore, cats are dogs.

html is markup

to be fair CSS in it's own right is a full blown, turing complete fucking language and lately it's been getting worse in terms of feature bloat.

This

Modern webpages are a fucking nightmare. I remember that in 2003 I could have a web server that just had a couple of images, CSS and a bunch of html files on it. Maybe a shtml here or there if I was feeling frisky..

These days you need a backend server that does scripting like php or perl or whatever, and a frontend server that serves images and static content over SSL. Can't forget the SSL.

This seems relevant
youtube.com/watch?v=4A2mWqLUpzw&user=Computerphile

tl;dr, HTML is an Declarative language that isn't turing complete by itself.

It may be turing complete if you add in CSS though.

First, people trying to better themselves and progress to better careers is not a bad thing.

Second, if that 6 month cert is enough to do a version of your job to a standard employers are happy with, maybe your position isn't so incredibly difficult and technical and impressive after all. You're like the rednecks who complainin that unskilled no-hable-ingles immigrants are taking their jobs. If a less skilled person can do your job, you deserve to lose it and you weren't such hot shit after all!

If you can program better than these people, prove it. Specialise, get experience doing advanced stuff, and get a job doing something they can't do. Then the code workshop newbies can do the code monkey HTML work and you can get on programming microcontrollers for rockets in assembly or building machine vision tech or whatever the fuck it is you do.

Sites are going back to static with client side js doing most of the work
SSL takes 5 minutes to set up

HTML i guess is technically but come on...

itt:
people who spend all their time in interpreted languages telling people use more forgiving and less critical interpreted languages that they are retarded

you're all fucking retarded. stop acting like downloading 20 different libraries is any different from reading mozilla's web standards docs and using jquery.

and I say this as a systems/full stack guy.

HTML is programming as much as writing this comment is.

markups are programming languages describing documents. html for web, xml for configurations, TeX for academic works, troff for general document writing.

In troff you use registers, traps, conditionals, arithmetic operations and macros. Don't know about TeX, but i think it is similar.

Yeah unless you type out the instructions in binary, you aren't rendering anything.

If everybody knew the general principles of Mechanical Engineering, the world would be a better place filled with less fucktards who can't change their own engine oil.
Nobody is saying you should practice Mechanical Engineering just because you attended one class on general principles.
It helps you appreciate and understand the inner workings of things.
You stupid nignog.

ITT: I'm so special because I can code. God forbid other people learn at least to learn the simple principles behind computer code. It's dangerous because people will flood the marketplace with poorly made spyware and malware

OH WAIT THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE RIGHT NOW.

the picture said its coding, not programming. nothing wrong with that.

also, declarative programing is a thing y know

ITT: World-class sprinters making fun of people learning how to walk

Markup languages are not programming languages, they are markup languages.

You'd laugh at someone too if he, while only being able to crawl and beginning to learn to walk was claiming to be able to fly.

At the bottom. Strong implications that writing HTML is programming.

"knowing just enough to be dangerous" right? there's this thing that's been circulating recently, where people think that specializing their education isn't as valuable as dabbling in everything. While I think it's important to diversify your mind, these people are spewing bullshit to cover up their failure to stick with anything. look up "multipotentiality" and prepare to cringe.

HTML can't be programming because it doesn't create programs. it can only be run inside of a program as instructions, so maybe it should be called scripting?

No, it should be called markup because that's what it is. Scripting is programming, the line between those two is too blurred to mean anything.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO OUR GLORIOUS GODDESS MAKI!! YOU ARE A MIRACLE AND AN INSPIRATION TO A GENERATION! WE LOVE YOU QUEEN OF Sup Forums!!!

Fuck off, Maki's a slut.

It's HTML and CSS. Their incompetence won't kill anyone.

And, to be fair, most normies already know some HTML and CSS. Especially if they spend a considerable amount of time online and are into blogging. Hell, I think knowing some HTML and CSS in this day and age should be expected. If you're an online journalist, you will be expected to at least know some HTML5 in some places.

Hello, My name is Armando
I come from the town Lushnje, Albania
I am teaching English and programming now
I want you to help me be good at programming. I now can do Html and Css and Javscript. My dream is to be succesful in California.

by that logic, haskell isn't a real programmin glanguage because it's declarative

literally says coding right there in the title

Congratulations you made the most stupid comment I have ever read

Yeah, and binary is a programming language used to describe text documents.

Code describes a process and a program is an executable process. Markup langues describe static files.
In a browser, you use a JavaScript program to manipulate the contents of a html file. Imagine if html could describe processes and be executed.

the L in HTML is Language therefore programiing

So when you speak you program reality?

Correct.

keep telling yourself that so you can consider yourself a 'programmer' but hell na fammo any retard can create something in HTML

Nice one op.

That's like saying Microsoft Word is programming

DELET

With HTML5, it technically is.

>then half the population would get killed off from their own fucking incompetence and misunderstandings
I see no downside to this

>t. Web Designer/HTML&CSS programmer.